Metagame Chimera 1v1

[Escavalier Royale]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7chimera-203039

Focus Sash ban isn't working. Could someone fix that?

Try informing Urkerab of this since he runs most of ROM. Chimera in general isn't working that great, other than choosing the lead you can't decide team order in Preview which severely limits the amount of viable Chimeras you can make in one team.

 

[Escavalier Royale]

Since Water Bubble is still allowed, I decided to make a team around it featuring some... unusual mons. They can still be very effective as long as you don't use them for stats.

LOOK I'M USING WHISCASH

Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Crunch

Whiscash @ Groundium Z
Ability: Oblivious
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge

Kyogre @ Waterium Z
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Liquidation
- Earthquake
- Origin Pulse
- Thunderbolt

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Specs
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost

Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Protect
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch

Azumarill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sap Sipper
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet

Araquanid, Whiscash and Azumarill have no EVs or specific nature since you don't use them for stats. I chose Whiscash for his great Water/Ground typing and Dragon Dance, and Azumarill for Aqua Jet priority and also great defensive typing. Other than Water Bubble sets you can also make a stally set with Whiscash's typing+Sap Sipper, along with Hoopa-U's Toxic+Protects along with Roost. Some parts of the team remain unused, like Araquanid's moves and Kyogre's Drizzle ability, although Drizzle usually isn't worth using when you have Water Bubble and Kyogre was mainly for Origin Pulse anyway. Hoopa and Kyurem's abilities are unused since they are trash lol. Whiscash's item slot is filler; if you want, you can give him no item and use Magician shenanigans with your opponent.
Chimeras I made with this:
Physical Life Orb: Whis/Hoop/Araq/Kyu/Ogre/Azu
Choice Specs: Whis/Kyu/Araq/Hoop/Azu/Ogre
Dragon Dance: Azu/Hoop/Araq/Kyu/Ogre/Whis
Physical Scarf: Ogre/Azu/Araq/Kyu/Whis/Hoop
Special Scarf: Whis/Azu/Araq/Hoop/Kyu/Ogre
Waterium Z: Azu/Ogre/Araq/Kyu/Whis/Hoop
No Weakness Stall: Whis/Araq/Azu/Ogre/Hoop/Kyu

Keep in mind that if you face teams with good preparations for Water Bubble, like Water Absorbers and Storm Drainers, this team might struggle. This can be circumvented by tricks like using Kyu's Teravolt to catch them off-guard, although that means you can't rely on Water Bubble anymore. This team has access to BoltBeam coverage (Ogre's TBolt and Azu's IBeam) to hit unsuspecting Water resists. The No Weakness Stall set messes with opponents who send in Grass-types (who even uses those lol) and expect to auto-beat this team, and is just fun to use in general, at least when it works.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Team-sharing time!

Monferno Offense

Hide

imp escape (Monferno) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- Fake Out
- Gunk Shot

genenenenenene (Genesect) @ Firium Z
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower

logiaaaAAAAA (Lugia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Negrozma (Lunala) @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

sharp (Volcarona) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Overheat
- Bug Buzz
- Substitute

brony sex slave (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Taunt

Honedge Stall

Hide

get sorded on (Honedge) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak

diagnosis of gay (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Charm
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled

p (Heatran) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Protect
- Earth Power

moonduckcunt (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect
- Ice Beam

Marshitty (Marshadow) @ Marshadium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Toxic
- Rock Tomb
- Bulk Up

die (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Protect
- Soft-Boiled
- Charm

 

[anaconja]

Team-sharing time!

Monferno Offense

Hide

imp escape (Monferno) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- Fake Out
- Gunk Shot

genenenenenene (Genesect) @ Firium Z
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Bug Buzz
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower

logiaaaAAAAA (Lugia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Negrozma (Lunala) @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

sharp (Volcarona) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Overheat
- Bug Buzz
- Substitute

brony sex slave (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Taunt

Honedge Stall

Hide

get sorded on (Honedge) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak

diagnosis of gay (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Charm
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled

p (Heatran) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Protect
- Earth Power

moonduckcunt (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect
- Ice Beam

Marshitty (Marshadow) @ Marshadium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Toxic
- Rock Tomb
- Bulk Up

die (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Protect
- Soft-Boiled
- Charm

These are pretty nice teams, but are unfortunately very one-dimensional; good teams can break through these teams relatively easily. One good tip is to make sure that your team has some type synergy. Oftentimes I focus on type synergy, so I revised both of your teams to have multiple sets:

Infernape Offensive

Infernape @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Slack Off
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz

Marshadow @ Firium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Zen Headbutt
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Lunala @ Choice Band
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Ice Beam
- Night Daze
- Cosmic Power

Mewtwo @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Punch
- Trick

Victini @ Lum Berry
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Blue Flare
- Calm Mind
- V-create
- Bolt Strike

Pangoro @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Storm Throw
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Instead of Quiver Dance, which forces one to use Bug types (which kinda sukc) I opted for Calm Mind. Mewtwo's natural Speed tier patches that up.

Sets

(Infernape is I, Marshadow is M, Lunala is L, Mewtwo is 2, Victini is V, Pangoro is P)
ShadowMind: IML2VP
TechBand: ILMVP2
BulkyBand: VL2PMI
ShadowZ: I2LMPV
MoldyZ: L2PVMI
VictorySpecs: MIV2LP
AntiSleep: LVMI2P
PressureStall: MP2VIL

Doublade Balance

Doublade @ Choice Specs
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Claw

Dialga @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw

Latios @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam

Giratina @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Calm Mind
- Photon Geyser

Lunala @ Lum Berry
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Ice Beam
- Cosmic Power
- Roost

I found Charm to be very team-restrictive so I use Cosmic Power to help check set-up attackers instead. You could swap Latios with Latias and sub Charm for Dragon Dance, I guess.

Sets

(Doublade is N, Dialga is D, Latios is L, Giratina is G, Necrozma is P, Lunala is S)
ShadowZ: DLSPNG
ShadowZ2: NGSPLD
ShadowDance: GDSPLN
NoScarf: GPNDSL
NoGeyser: SDNLGP
PrismSpecs: GNPDSL
PressureSpecs: PNGSDL
LeviStall: NDLGPS

 

[IronedSandwich]

this tier was hard to get into but it's great fun once you do!

since that's what people seem to be doing here I'll post one of my teams

http://pokepast.es/e2e1f1dfd3cb4c23

the first set hits really, really hard with Prismatic Laser (252 SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-Attack Prismatic Laser vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus in Psychic Terrain: 477-562 (107.4 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO) and the other three slots are for stuff quad-resisting/immune to psychic. If your opponent has sturdy or enough bulk/speed you lose, but priority doesn't work because psysurge >:D. The second is a fairly self explanatory stall set. The third is supposed to be a bulkier attacker but I'm not sure about it. The fourth is a scarfer intended to beat other super-hard-hitting offense. The fifth is a suprise physical normal-type attacker for a change of pace. (Lugia's ability is not that useful for it but there was no other pokemon with the move/stats combo and a better one I could see.) The last is a scarf version of the 1st.

if you're uninterested in Set 5 you can switch out DeoA's last two slots to Ice Beam / Focus Blast and make a version of #1 with KyuW's stats. Cresselia can be used as an alternative to Lugia, the only real difference is 5's ability. Also it's supposed to say Deoxys-Attack in 4, not Deoxys-Speed, derp

 

[Brodaha]

I find this meta very interesting, but I'm having trouble teambuilding. Anyone have some tips?

 

[Gravity Monkey]

I find this meta very interesting, but I'm having trouble teambuilding. Anyone have some tips?

You need a spreadsheet. At the very least.

 

[Escavalier Royale]

I find this meta very interesting, but I'm having trouble teambuilding. Anyone have some tips?

If you look back a bit you'll find a huge post written by Anaconja with some tips&tricks to build.

Specfically, post #52

 

[Mysterious Racer X]

I wish the attributes were taken from multiple different pokemon in addition to items/abilities/moves. That way there'd be a tradeoff for grabbing interesting abilities like magic bounce.

Speaking of which, it seems like every team ever needs to run immunity to sleep effects? Or are there special rules in 1v1 preventing sleep moves?

Also, why is transform banned, but not Imposter? oops, nevermind.

 

[anaconja]

I wish the attributes were taken from multiple different pokemon in addition to items/abilities/moves. That way there'd be a tradeoff for grabbing interesting abilities like magic bounce.

Speaking of which, it seems like every team ever needs to run immunity to sleep effects? Or are there special rules in 1v1 preventing sleep moves?

Also, why is transform banned, but not Imposter? oops, nevermind.

Spore users are limited to basically Breloom and Shiinotic, as the others either have bad movepools or bad typings. I'd agree, however, that sleep is much more broken here than 1v1 and is possibly banworthy, since Breloom can still support its team decently with moves such as Bullet Seed, Drain Punch, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Leech Seed, and Focus Blast.

 

[Mysterious Racer X]

Also is there anything to stop the old ghost-type, normalize, skill-swap (or entrainment) combo from AAA? That seems drastically more dangerous since you can't switch out of it. It also goes past Magic Bounce, so the only counter is being faster than them with Taunt or Simple Beam.

 

[anaconja]

Also is there anything to stop the old ghost-type, normalize, skill-swap (or entrainment) combo from AAA? That seems drastically more dangerous since you can't switch out of it. It also goes past Magic Bounce, so the only counters are Scrappy or being faster than them with Taunt.

It’s certainly powerful, though Delcatty has pretty terrible stats and subpar typing. Additionally, Z Moves ignore abilities and therefore are unaffected by Normalize. One can easily OHKO the Normalize user if the fourth mon is fast (like Deoxys-S) or with a few boosts if the fourth mon is bulky (like Giratina). Seeing the Delcatty in the team preview should be enough of a warning.

 

[chartung17]

Also is there anything to stop the old ghost-type, normalize, skill-swap (or entrainment) combo from AAA? That seems drastically more dangerous since you can't switch out of it. It also goes past Magic Bounce, so the only counter is being faster than them with Taunt or Simple Beam.

You can also counter it with Judgment, Multi Attack, or Techno Blast. Or, as Anaconja said, OHKO them with a Z move.
Another important note: Skill Swap goes past Magic Bounce, but Entrainment does not.

See this post for a team that abuses Normalize and another team that counters Normalize:

Normalize sounds really good. This is probably the team I would use:

Hide

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Toxic
- Hex

Ludicolo @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Delcatty @ Life Orb
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Deoxys-Speed @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Recover
- Psycho Boost
- Nasty Plot

Araquanid @ Lum Berry
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soak
- Entrainment
- Toxic
- Soak

Mewtwo @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Skill Swap
- Toxic
- Taunt

Use them in that order (or switch Araquanid and Mewtwo if your opponent has a Magic Bounce mon), and you're virtually unstoppable. Heavy offense can only win if they have 104 base speed or more along with Scarf/Speed Boost and enough power to OHKO (or if they use Judgment/Multi Attack/Revelation Dance), and stall's going to have a really tough time outstalling you. Thanks to Soak, nothing is immune to Toxic, and Taunt keeps the opponent from healing. Lum Berry is there in case the opponent uses Toxic on the first turn while you're using Entrainment/Skill Swap.
This team also allows for a second Chimera (a Water/Grass type with Water Bubble, Choice Specs, Mewtwo's stats, and Hydro Pump/Energy Ball/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt), primarily for use when you're expecting a Scarf/Speed Boost opponent capable of OHKOing your Normalize Chimera.
Jellicent was chosen because it's the only ghost that can donate a good water attack, and Ludicolo was chosen because it gets STAB on water attacks and has no weaknesses in common with Jellicent (Palkia can also fill that role).


Edit:
Here's another team I came up with. Designed to take advantage of the full potential of Water Bubble, but can do some other cool stuff too:

Hide

Lapras @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Brave Nature
- Avalanche
- Drill Run
- Signal Beam
- Freeze-Dry

Exploud @ Douse Drive
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Surf
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Araquanid @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat
- Hidden Power
- Scald

Kyurem-White @ Shock Drive
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Stone Edge
- Roost

Genesect @ Leftovers
Ability: Download
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Techno Blast
- Simple Beam
- Energy Ball
- Flamethrower

Aurorus @ Chill Drive
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Def
- Aqua Tail
- Avalanche
- Freeze-Dry
- Calm Mind

Some of the mons you can form with this team:

Water Bubble abuser (also good against Normalize):

Hide

Lapras @ Douse Drive
Ability : Water Bubble
Kyurem-White’s stats
- Techno Blast
- Simple Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Calm Mind

Techno Blast is a powerful water STAB, and it ignores Normalize. Simple Beam eliminates any water immunities (also very useful against Contrary mons). Freeze-Dry is 4x supereffective against everything that has a 4x resistance to water. There's no need for another coverage move, so Calm Mind seemed like a good idea for the last spot.

Other Normalize counters:

Hide

Exploud @ Chill Drive
Ability : Water Absorb
Kyurem-White’s stats
- Techno Blast
- Simple Beam
- Hidden Power Electric
- Scald

Exploud @ Shock Drive
Ability : Water Absorb
Aurorus’s stats
- Techno Blast
- Simple Beam
- Hidden Power Ice
- Scald

The first one beats Grass/Ghosts with Normalize, the second beats Water/Ghosts with Normalize, and both have BoltBeam coverage (assuming Hidden Power works how I expect it to - I gave Kyurem the IVs for HP Electric and Aurorus the IVs for HP Ice) in case you predicted wrong and your opponent doesn't use Normalize. In fact, the second one completely destroys the team I posted above, since it can basically ignore the abilities of both the Normalize abuser and the Water Bubble abuser, and it hits both supereffectively.

Refrigerated Boomburst:

Hide

Lapras @ Choice Specs
Ability : Refrigerate
Kyurem-White’s stats
- Boomburst
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Flamethrower

No explanation needed.

Physical Attacker:

Hide

Kyurem-White @ Choice Band
Ability : Water Bubble
Genesect’s stats
- Aqua Tail
- Avalanche
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Genesect's attack stat isn't terrible, and this set has dual STABs, powerful coverage in Earthquake and Water Bubble-boosted Aqua Tail, and a handy immunity to burns thanks to Water Bubble.

Side note - can anyone confirm whether Hidden Power works how I expected it to? (See the hide tag labeled "Other Normalize counters" in the quoted post.)

 

[anaconja]

Side note - can anyone confirm whether Hidden Power works how I expected it to? (See the hide tag labeled "Other Normalize counters" in the quoted post.)

Since the 4th mon provides the EVs and IVs, it would have to be the 4th mon. I’d have to check, though.

 

[Mysterious Racer X]

Is there anywhere that I can play this mode? (other than if it becomes OM of the month on showdown)

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Is there anywhere that I can play this mode? (other than if it becomes OM of the month on showdown)

The ROM

 

[Hycrox]

is there a code for this meta somewhere?

 

[The Immortal]

PSA: Anaconja is now running this! It looked like he was running it anyway will all his posts tbh.

 

[anaconja]

PSA: Anaconja is now running this! It looked like he was running it anyway will all his posts tbh.

Thanks for the shoutout! I'll do my best to get this meta more activity.

To add a bit of discussion, I was thinking about doing the following:

- Ban sleep moves. One look at the 1v1 Metagame Discussion thread will tell you that it's a controversial topic, but here, it's even more potent: in 1v1, sleep-abusing mons are usually held back by a) their low speed, b) their accuracy, or c) their low defenses. However, since Chimera 1v1 allows for stats like Giratina or Deoxys-Speed, along with the move Spore, it makes a very overpowered set when combined with setup or SubSeed. It forces one to use Magic Bounce, Vital Spirit/Insomnia, a Grass typing, or Safety Goggles (lol) to counter the set, which I believe is too restrictive on teambuilding to be allowed in the metagame.

- Allow Megas without Mega Stones (with some exceptions). With Ubers allowed, I believe that allowing Mega Pokemon without the use of Mega Stones encourages more creativity, allowing for the use of Aerilate, as well as the more flexible use of Magic Bounce, Refrigerate, and Pixilate. Of course, Mega Pokemon like the Mewtwos, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Kyogre would be banned, and Diancie, Slowbro, Metagross, and Lati@s seem banworthy as well, though I'm not exactly sure yet.

What do you all think?

 

[Brodaha]

- Ban sleep moves. One look at the 1v1 Metagame Discussion thread will tell you that it's a controversial topic, but here, it's even more potent: in 1v1, sleep-abusing mons are usually held back by a) their low speed, b) their accuracy, or c) their low defenses. However, since Chimera 1v1 allows for stats like Giratina or Deoxys-Speed, along with the move Spore, it makes a very overpowered set when combined with setup or SubSeed. It forces one to use Magic Bounce, Vital Spirit/Insomnia, a Grass typing, or Safety Goggles (lol) to counter the set, which I believe is too restrictive on teambuilding to be allowed in the metagame.

I'm not the most experienced with this meta, but I often play 1v1, and Sleep has a large and annoying presence there because of it's random element, accuracy and turns asleep. I believe this is made much worse in this meta because of the possibilities of anything utilizing Spore or even No Guard + any sleep move. There is even counterplay to the sleep counterplay, with Mold Breaker abilities ignoring Vital Spirit, Insomnia, and Magic Bounce, and as I mentioned earlier, No Guard + Sleep can be used to bypass Grass' Spore immunity. All in all, I think Sleep is worth a ban.

- Allow Megas without Mega Stones (with some exceptions). With Ubers allowed, I believe that allowing Mega Pokemon without the use of Mega Stones encourages more creativity, allowing for the use of Aerilate, as well as the more flexible use of Magic Bounce, Refrigerate, and Pixilate. Of course, Mega Pokemon like the Mewtwos, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Kyogre would be banned, and Diancie, Slowbro, Metagross, and Lati@s seem banworthy as well, though I'm not exactly sure yet.

This seems like a fine idea to me. I agree that Mega legendary pokemon are almost all worth a ban, with the possible exception of the Latis. I'm not sure if the other megas you mentioned are deserving of a ban. Mega Slowbro seems okay to me, although I guess it does have good SpA and Def. I doubt it would ever be used for an ability, unless you're doing some kind of defense-boosting stall and don't want crits.

Also, I can't seem to find the banlist anywhere. Am I blind?

 

[lalalama]

Thanks for the shoutout! I'll do my best to get this meta more activity.

To add a bit of discussion, I was thinking about doing the following:

- Ban sleep moves. One look at the 1v1 Metagame Discussion thread will tell you that it's a controversial topic, but here, it's even more potent: in 1v1, sleep-abusing mons are usually held back by a) their low speed, b) their accuracy, or c) their low defenses. However, since Chimera 1v1 allows for stats like Giratina or Deoxys-Speed, along with the move Spore, it makes a very overpowered set when combined with setup or SubSeed. It forces one to use Magic Bounce, Vital Spirit/Insomnia, a Grass typing, or Safety Goggles (lol) to counter the set, which I believe is too restrictive on teambuilding to be allowed in the metagame.

- Allow Megas without Mega Stones (with some exceptions). With Ubers allowed, I believe that allowing Mega Pokemon without the use of Mega Stones encourages more creativity, allowing for the use of Aerilate, as well as the more flexible use of Magic Bounce, Refrigerate, and Pixilate. Of course, Mega Pokemon like the Mewtwos, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Kyogre would be banned, and Diancie, Slowbro, Metagross, and Lati@s seem banworthy as well, though I'm not exactly sure yet.

What do you all think?

I'm glad to see some life in this thread!

I think that sleep should definitely be banned, you can go to the 1v1 thread and see the discussion on its uncompettitivity. (if that's a world lol) Also, as Brodaha said, counterplay to sleep counterplay is quite easy to put on teams.

I think that if some mega stones are unbanned, most species-spesific items (like z crystals) should be unbanned. In the end, that will probably be a good thing, since the bugs with form changes can be justified.

Also, I can't seem to find the banlist anywhere. Am I blind?

Bans: Shedinja, Smeargle, Pure Power, Huge Power, Moody, Focus Sash, Perish Song, Transform, All Species-Specific items*

It's kinda hidden in a quote tag

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Thanks for the shoutout! I'll do my best to get this meta more activity.

To add a bit of discussion, I was thinking about doing the following:

- Ban sleep moves. One look at the 1v1 Metagame Discussion thread will tell you that it's a controversial topic, but here, it's even more potent: in 1v1, sleep-abusing mons are usually held back by a) their low speed, b) their accuracy, or c) their low defenses. However, since Chimera 1v1 allows for stats like Giratina or Deoxys-Speed, along with the move Spore, it makes a very overpowered set when combined with setup or SubSeed. It forces one to use Magic Bounce, Vital Spirit/Insomnia, a Grass typing, or Safety Goggles (lol) to counter the set, which I believe is too restrictive on teambuilding to be allowed in the metagame.

- Allow Megas without Mega Stones (with some exceptions). With Ubers allowed, I believe that allowing Mega Pokemon without the use of Mega Stones encourages more creativity, allowing for the use of Aerilate, as well as the more flexible use of Magic Bounce, Refrigerate, and Pixilate. Of course, Mega Pokemon like the Mewtwos, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Kyogre would be banned, and Diancie, Slowbro, Metagross, and Lati@s seem banworthy as well, though I'm not exactly sure yet.

What do you all think?

I think sleep seems like a reasonable ban. I don't like the mega rule though; it modifies the base mechanics of the game in a way not inherent to the meta. I dislike doing that in any meta (besides sleep clause in non-1v1 metas) and I don't like it here.

Anyway I hope we can see this as an OMotM sometime soon, because it's a cool idea.

Just a passing thought but what would a viability ranking even look like for this meta lol.

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Thanks for the shoutout! I'll do my best to get this meta more activity.

To add a bit of discussion, I was thinking about doing the following:

- Ban sleep moves. One look at the 1v1 Metagame Discussion thread will tell you that it's a controversial topic, but here, it's even more potent: in 1v1, sleep-abusing mons are usually held back by a) their low speed, b) their accuracy, or c) their low defenses. However, since Chimera 1v1 allows for stats like Giratina or Deoxys-Speed, along with the move Spore, it makes a very overpowered set when combined with setup or SubSeed. It forces one to use Magic Bounce, Vital Spirit/Insomnia, a Grass typing, or Safety Goggles (lol) to counter the set, which I believe is too restrictive on teambuilding to be allowed in the metagame.

- Allow Megas without Mega Stones (with some exceptions). With Ubers allowed, I believe that allowing Mega Pokemon without the use of Mega Stones encourages more creativity, allowing for the use of Aerilate, as well as the more flexible use of Magic Bounce, Refrigerate, and Pixilate. Of course, Mega Pokemon like the Mewtwos, Rayquaza, Groudon, and Kyogre would be banned, and Diancie, Slowbro, Metagross, and Lati@s seem banworthy as well, though I'm not exactly sure yet.

What do you all think?

My only actual team just became unusable, yipee yay...

On a more serious note, I'm happy to see some more activity in here, and both those two new clauses seems perfectly legitimate to me, though we will have to do some testing around the meta.

Also, please ban normalize, and then ban either prankster or copycat. Please.

 

[Brodaha]

Just a passing thought but what would a viability ranking even look like for this meta lol.

I would imagine that there would be viability rankings for each part of the team and an overall viability rankings for pokemon that fit well in any role. There probably wouldn't be an item viability ranking though, lol.

 

[anaconja]

I'll allow a day or two for any other objections to a Spore quickban.

I don't like the mega rule though; it modifies the base mechanics of the game in a way not inherent to the meta. I dislike doing that in any meta (besides sleep clause in non-1v1 metas) and I don't like it here.

This is a very fair point, actually - modifying mechanics is not a good idea unless it's part of the metagame idea (i.e. Balanced Hackmons). I'll hold this idea off for now.

A (currently very undeveloped) viability ranking has been created here! It's separated into categories, similar to Mix and Mega's VR as well as Brodaha's suggestion. Feel free to add your nominations there!

Also, please ban normalize, and then ban either prankster or copycat. Please.

Though I've repeated a few times earlier that Normalize can be countered by Z-Moves, now that I think about it, this strategy can be bypassed by using Substitute or Protect. If we get more interest in this metagame perhaps we can do some kind of suspect, but I'd like to hear all of your thoughts about this.

Prankster is another issue, as one can spam SubSeed as the opponent attempts to set up. It's easy to tell from Team Preview, however, so I don't think it's broken. Prankster Copycat, however, can be banworthy, as it allows for +1 priority V-Creates. Again, discussion is appreciated.