Added to OP :]
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Item Choice Band and Choice Specs (Viable Users, and Current Role in the Metagame)
- Thread starter The Shellder Smuggler
- Start date
- Status
Added to OP :]
Also, two other points
That entire moveset is resisted by Empoleon, so saying "everything" isn't quite true. Also, Hydro Pump was nerfed, so it's only 165 BP.
Kingdra
Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
Ability: Sniper/Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Flash Cannon
This set hits anything at least neutrally. Hydro Pump is excellent STAB, topping at 180 BP. Ice Beam covers other Dragon/Flying's and Gliscor. Dragon Pulse is just nice STAB. Flash Cannon covers faries. It's underrated for sure, but still deserves a mention.
Choice Specs Keldeo (Creds to NC)
Starapter hits like no other, and forms a fabulous core with Talonflame and or Pinsir. I don't think calling it outclassed is fair. Also, could you please put Double Edge first. It has a BP of 216, while Return only hits at 153 BP. The damage output is certainly worth the recoil when facing pokemon that resist flying, like Zapdos and Rotom-W. :)Choice Band outclassedbutusefulbird (Staraptor)
Staraptor
Item: Choice Band
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
Ability: Intimidate/Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
- Brave Bird
- Return/Quick Attack/Double Edge
- Close Combat
- U-Turn
Unfortunately Gale wings is only available to the talonflame family - but that doesn't mean staraptor is nothing but amazing. Brave Bird is boosted by reckless, rather than getting priority, and is an excellent STAB move. Return and Quick Attack, as well as Double Edge are all STAB but have their differences. Double Edge is boosted by Reckless, Quick Attack is a good priority move, Return has no drawbacks. Close combat hurts steels, and U-Turn takes care of Zam.
You may think this is odd. But after pondering about this Idea, I think it works well.
Set: Oh, You think I'm Physical Azumarill
Ability: Sap Sipper
Item: Choice Specs
EVs: 252HP/252SpA/4SpD
Nature: Modest/Quiet
Moves
Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald
Focus Blast
Ice Beam/Blizzard
Grass Knot
Surprising? Yes even though Azumarill can't learn any Special Fairy Moves. This will surprise your Foe greatly with an Immunity to Grass attacks. I would recomend possibly using this on a Trick Room team from Azumarill's base 50 speed or just as a special hitter, with a twist!
Set: Oh, You think I'm Physical Azumarill
Ability: Sap Sipper
Item: Choice Specs
EVs: 252HP/252SpA/4SpD
Nature: Modest/Quiet
Moves
Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald
Focus Blast
Ice Beam/Blizzard
Grass Knot
Surprising? Yes even though Azumarill can't learn any Special Fairy Moves. This will surprise your Foe greatly with an Immunity to Grass attacks. I would recomend possibly using this on a Trick Room team from Azumarill's base 50 speed or just as a special hitter, with a twist!
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Nah, anyone worth their salt will see Specs Azumarill coming a mile off. If you really wanna surprise them you'd want to go with something like this.
Diggersby @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 47 HP / 5 Def / 258 SpD
Nature: Lax
- Leer
Seriously, come the fuck on. We did April Fools', it's over now, suggesting stupid shit now just makes you look like an imbecile.
Diggersby @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 47 HP / 5 Def / 258 SpD
Nature: Lax
- Leer
Seriously, come the fuck on. We did April Fools', it's over now, suggesting stupid shit now just makes you look like an imbecile.
Calcs please.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 158-188 (53 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 232-274 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 348-410 (121.6 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 252-296 (65.2 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 452-536 (126.2 - 149.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 232-274 (65.9 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 348-410 (121.6 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 252-296 (65.2 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 452-536 (126.2 - 149.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 216-256 (79.4 - 94.1%)
Yeah... If you can't OHKO Pinsir with Choice Specs Ice Beam, something is wrong.
The only reason you should ever use Azumarill without Huge Power is as a niche Whirlpool trapper. Specs Azumarill is completely outclassed by Specs Politoed.
(also lol Blizzard)
Why would a Greninja switch into an Azumarill?
What makes Azumarill worth to use is its huge (pun unintended) attack stat in combo with good typing and physical STABs. If you use specs, you sacrifice your fairy STAB for the ability to work off an 60 base SpA? Since it has no special fairy STAB, you have no niche over all the other water types you could slap specs on and which has better SpA than Azumarill. The surprise factor is definately not worth sacrificing your Huge Power for.
What about with solar power in sun? I think that's the niche that Specs Zard has over its mega form
Where are you getting the sun from if Charizard Y is the only good sun setter in OU ( Ninetales is pretty bad ). Also you can also use mega Houndoom over Charizard for a solar power sun sweeper.
Is the earth power a 2 hit ko on ttar even with Sandstorm special defense boost?
It depends on the Tyranitar set. Running it through a few of the sets in the OU Analysis
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 210-248 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Scarfed Tyranitar)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 180-212 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Dragon Dance Mega)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 208-246 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Physically Defensive)
so it needs a fair amount of investment to avoid the 2HKO. At the other end of the scale.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 134-158 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 102-120 (25.3 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
These specially defensive versions are pretty rare, and 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 272-320 (67.4 - 79.4%), so Earth Power is probably the better alternative.
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Thanks for providing calculations
That's absolutely terrifying
Because of sun :] Specs Zard was taken off of OP a while ago :]
252+ SpA Choice Specs Ferrothorn Hidden Power Rock vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 272-324 (100 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Clearly, Choice Specs Ferrothorn should be added to the OP.
(In all seriousness, I think I remember someone claiming that Choice Banded Ferrothorn was somewhat viable as a Heatran lure. Could somebody confirm whether this is a legit niche or just plain stupid?)
Clearly, Choice Specs Ferrothorn should be added to the OP.
(In all seriousness, I think I remember someone claiming that Choice Banded Ferrothorn was somewhat viable as a Heatran lure. Could somebody confirm whether this is a legit niche or just plain stupid?)
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 328-388 (84.9 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO.
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 308-364 (89.5 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
With a bit of prior damage, it will kill Heatran no problem, and CB Ferro was a legitimate set last gen.
I feel like the bashing is incredibly innapropriate. Clearly they are a newer player and clearly they are serious. A page dedicated to outright bullying them over their less-than-ideal suggestion is not only unnecesary but outright mean, and certainly discouraging for new players who want to get involved.
And tbh, the people doing the bashing aren't even good players as far as I know (since I've never seen them before, this is my assumption). A single post explaining why specs azumarill is lacking in merit is plenty sufficient.
On another note, I feel as if specs keldeo is fairly great atm. Mvenu and the like can be troublesome, but keldeo has the means by which to break through them if neccesary. Hp flying can deal with venu. Hydro pump and some residual damage can take care of rotom. Icy wind can beat the latis on the switch. In reality, once the few checks that keldeo has are gone or weakened (by keldeo itself), it is nearly impossible to switch into even its water stab.
And tbh, the people doing the bashing aren't even good players as far as I know (since I've never seen them before, this is my assumption). A single post explaining why specs azumarill is lacking in merit is plenty sufficient.
On another note, I feel as if specs keldeo is fairly great atm. Mvenu and the like can be troublesome, but keldeo has the means by which to break through them if neccesary. Hp flying can deal with venu. Hydro pump and some residual damage can take care of rotom. Icy wind can beat the latis on the switch. In reality, once the few checks that keldeo has are gone or weakened (by keldeo itself), it is nearly impossible to switch into even its water stab.
Well Im pretty bored rn so I decided to bless a thread with my presence. I am too lazy to check rest of posts to see if this was mentioned yet [I would be surprised if it hasnt tbh.] But um ya what I will be discussing is something that should be used a lot more than it has been Choice Specs Raikou. Not only does this thing outspeed a majority of the tier [excluding Greninja, Deo-S, Alakazam, and Scarfers] and hit hard but it has surprisingly decent bulk with 90/75/100 making it one of the best checks/counters depending on healthy to Thundurus-I. It is also a good check to common fly spam users such as Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir but cannot exactly switch into them due to its lackluster physical defense. Furthermore Raikou has pretty good coverage moves such as Extrasensory to hit Mega Venusaur, Conkeldurr, and the not as common Terrakion and Shadow Ball for Aegislash, Latios, Latias. I prefer Shadow Ball unless your team really struggles with Mega Venusaur. Not only that but it is an amazing Revenge Killer easily revenge killing mons such as Latios, Keldeo, Mandibuzz, Manaphy, Crocune, Gengar, Azumarill, and as already mentioned Tflame, Mega-Pinsir, and Thundurus. It can also of course revenge kill Non-Scarf Chomp, broken Multiscale Dnite, Lando-I, Lando-T, and Gliscor with HP Ice. Lastly I think I should mention that Volt Switch is very very useful because Raikou's strong as fuck tbolts force a lot of switches, letting you get easy momentum. I find myself putting this on a lot of my teams recently and really like it. Now that I have explained myself I guess I should put a set lol.
Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball / Extrasensory
- Volt Switch
Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball / Extrasensory
- Volt Switch
Well Im pretty bored rn so I decided to bless a thread with my presence. I am too lazy to check rest of posts to see if this was mentioned yet [I would be surprised if it hasnt tbh.] But um ya what I will be discussing is something that should be used a lot more than it has been Choice Specs Raikou. Not only does this thing outspeed a majority of the tier [excluding Greninja, Deo-S, Alakazam, and Scarfers] and hit hard but it has surprisingly decent bulk with 90/75/100 making it one of the best checks/counters depending on healthy to Thundurus-I. It is also a good check to common fly spam users such as Talonflame and Mega-Pinsir but cannot exactly switch into them due to its lackluster physical defense. Furthermore Raikou has pretty good coverage moves such as Extrasensory to hit Mega Venusaur, Conkeldurr, and the not as common Terrakion and Shadow Ball for Aegislash, Latios, Latias. I prefer Shadow Ball unless your team really struggles with Mega Venusaur. Not only that but it is an amazing Revenge Killer easily revenge killing mons such as Latios, Keldeo, Mandibuzz, Manaphy, Crocune, Gengar, Azumarill, and as already mentioned Tflame, Mega-Pinsir, and Thundurus. It can also of course revenge kill Non-Scarf Chomp, broken Multiscale Dnite, Lando-I, Lando-T, and Gliscor with HP Ice. Lastly I think I should mention that Volt Switch is very very useful because Raikou's strong as fuck tbolts force a lot of switches, letting you get easy momentum. I find myself putting this on a lot of my teams recently and really like it. Now that I have explained myself I guess I should put a set lol.
Raikou @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball / Extrasensory
- Volt Switch
Added in the OP
More perhaps viable sets
Latios
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 Spdef
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire/Thunderbolt
- Trick
- Draco Meteor
Ok, I guess that although I mentioned this pokemon in the OP, I didn't explain it. So, Psyshock is a great STAB move that breaks through special walls, most notably blissey. Despite the -10 BP drop, it still is nonetheless a great move. HP Fire covers steel types, that Latios would normally be walled against. Under normal circumstances, this may not be an awesome move, but with specs, it has a decent boost in its power. Thunderbolt can also be a viable option that can still hit steel types neutrally. Trick is a very notable move here, as it can potentially stop a physical sweeper from doing much in terms of damage. Draco Meteor is Latios's most powerful move, and is 195 BP with STAB, which is pretty powerful.
Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 330-390 (90.6 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 384-452 (105.4 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 344-408 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 417-492 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 180-212 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO
I can't believe it's notbutter sorcery!
Metagross
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 162 HP, 92 Spd
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm/Ice Punch/Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt/Pursuit
Although not packing a bullet punch as strong as Scizor's, Metagross certainly deserves a mention as a choice band user. One trait that Metagross packs is decent bulk, with 80/130/90 defenses. This gives Metagross the chance to stay on the field longer. STAB Meteor Mash has 135 BP, making it the strongest move that Metagross has that he can use effectively. Bullet Punch can be used as Scizor uses it, or it can be used to finish off opponents. Hammer Arm covers other Steel Types, but it draws back Speed, which can be a problem for Metagross, outspeeding other Base 70s. Ice Punch can cover Dragon/Flying Types, which is always nice. Earthquake gives coverage, and is a good alternative to Hammer Arm, not lowering speed. However, Hammer Arm covers Dark Types, that Earthquake doesn't, especially now that steel doesn't resist dark anymore. Zen Headbutt is great STAB move that has a nice chance to flinch, but Pursuit can help trap a switching opponent sensing a Bullet Punch.
I want to add these to the OP, but I want to hear everyone's opinions first. :]
Latios
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spd, 4 Spdef
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire/Thunderbolt
- Trick
- Draco Meteor
Ok, I guess that although I mentioned this pokemon in the OP, I didn't explain it. So, Psyshock is a great STAB move that breaks through special walls, most notably blissey. Despite the -10 BP drop, it still is nonetheless a great move. HP Fire covers steel types, that Latios would normally be walled against. Under normal circumstances, this may not be an awesome move, but with specs, it has a decent boost in its power. Thunderbolt can also be a viable option that can still hit steel types neutrally. Trick is a very notable move here, as it can potentially stop a physical sweeper from doing much in terms of damage. Draco Meteor is Latios's most powerful move, and is 195 BP with STAB, which is pretty powerful.
Calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 330-390 (90.6 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Latias: 384-452 (105.4 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 344-408 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 417-492 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 180-212 (45.6 - 53.8%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO
I can't believe it's not
Metagross
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 162 HP, 92 Spd
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm/Ice Punch/Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt/Pursuit
Although not packing a bullet punch as strong as Scizor's, Metagross certainly deserves a mention as a choice band user. One trait that Metagross packs is decent bulk, with 80/130/90 defenses. This gives Metagross the chance to stay on the field longer. STAB Meteor Mash has 135 BP, making it the strongest move that Metagross has that he can use effectively. Bullet Punch can be used as Scizor uses it, or it can be used to finish off opponents. Hammer Arm covers other Steel Types, but it draws back Speed, which can be a problem for Metagross, outspeeding other Base 70s. Ice Punch can cover Dragon/Flying Types, which is always nice. Earthquake gives coverage, and is a good alternative to Hammer Arm, not lowering speed. However, Hammer Arm covers Dark Types, that Earthquake doesn't, especially now that steel doesn't resist dark anymore. Zen Headbutt is great STAB move that has a nice chance to flinch, but Pursuit can help trap a switching opponent sensing a Bullet Punch.
I want to add these to the OP, but I want to hear everyone's opinions first. :]
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