Choice scarf revisited

McGrrr

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
Choice scarf popularity is fairly limited currently. However, maybe that will change after this thread. I hear scarf Gengar is popular on wifi for a fast hypnosis and to outspeed other starters. Well, what if we extend this concept? I propose that choice scarf is not only a viable replacement for band/glasses on many fast pokemon, but may prove to be better.

Advantages of using choice scarf:

* allows you to run adamant/modest natures over jolly/timid
* spare EVs which can be used defensively
* element of surprise

The disadvantage of not using band/glasses is obviously dealing less damage. It is up to you to weigh the relative costs and benefits for specific pokemon. Remember that a 90% choice scarf Starmie only needs surprise to OHKO a dragon danced Salamence, while a 90% choice glasses Starmie needs a miracle.

Optimal speeds for fast scarf pokemon:

270 (405) beats single dance Salamence and endrev adamant Heracross. 100 base pokemon can hit this with ease to surprise stuff like jolly Garchomp.
277 (415) beats jolly Marowak with +2 speed.
288 (432) beats adamant Rampard with +2 speed.
296 (444) beats double dance adamant T-tar. Aerodactyl hits 296 with 0 EVs so you have 256 defensive EVs to play with. Azelf and Starmie are other candidates here.
316 (474) beats adamant Marowak with +3 speed and jolly Rampard with +2 speed.

Choice scarf is not merely a nifty safety net against fast sweepers, but it can change the direction of a battle in one turn.
 
I personally like Choice Scarf Rampardos, I'm planning on using this set on my Sandstream team.

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 112 HP / 188 Atk / 112 Spd / 96 SDef
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Pursuit
-Hammer Arm

Wrecks a lot of starters, survives Choice Scarf Gengar's Energy Ball for a OHKO Earthquake or Pursuit, Hammer Arms Tyranitar starts and Stone Edges anything that doesn't resist it. With Sandstream going it becomes bulkier on the SDef side, being able to take Swampert Surfs without dying. Wish support makes this more fun.
 
Funny you mention Choice Scar Gengar, I made a set for one eysterday =P

Gengar @Choice Scarf
Modest
252 Speed/252 Spc. Attack/4 HP
-Shadow Ball
-Sludge Bomb
-Energy Ball
-Thunderbolt
 
Heatran is an excellent choice for it, in my opinion.

I also like Choice Scarf Garchomp. Adamant Outrage does a shit load of damage and the extra speed can surprise Weavile, Starmie, etc. Could make a nice late game cleaner.
 
I think the best showing of this move has been in one of the warstories. Can't remeber who used it but an ASGarchomp stopped a DDed Gyra sweeping his entire team.
 
When I saw the boost to S.D. with Sand I Knew ScarfRamp would be on a rise

Im thinking of Scarf Azumaril with Watterfall, Ice Punch, Double Edge. Brick Break

It can get the suprise into Gaburaisu and since its kinda bulky survive an attack.
 
Scarf-Dactly looks nice, except it has very little attack. 339 is not very high for an attack stat. It won't even guarentee the 2HKO on Max HP TTar, and barely 2HKO's min HP. Dactyl is one of those pokes who needs to really pump it's attack and forget about defences.

Anyways, mixed sweepers love this. Good-bye 100+ Speed EV's, I now have more attack to play with. Infernape is the prime example of this, Flygon also comes to mind. Electivire, Magmortar, and Blaziken also come to mind, except they need minor Speed EV investments.

The 270 Speed mark looks nice for Base 100 Scarfers. Staraptor, Zapdos, Salamence (phys.), and such like the boost. 405 seems to be the new favorite speed, beats Scarf'd Heracross. Also, Scarf'd base 100's keep the attack personality but can break 299 (lol ADV numbers).
 
that war story was mine. its the element of surprise that wins battles, thats why my team with spiritomb, CStile, ASChomp etc. went from an 'undefeated' streak to 'an impossible to beat anyone i usually play streak' cause everyone now knew what to expect and how to deal with my pokeymans. Choice Scarf definately plays a HUGE role on the element of surprise and it is one of my favorite items. I saw it very well used on a Metagross once.
 
That's the main issue with CScarf - it's all well and good until your opponent expects it. You either have to mix up your team or pick something that can overcome a little predictability - which generally means a capable attack stat and a diverse movepool. Heracross works on both levels - it's pretty easy to swap out Choice Scarf for a Choice Band, and then when your opponent tries to predict CS, he takes an unexpectedly strong hit.
 
RougeSoul said:
My favorite is Scarf-Eruption Typhlosion as it outspeeds a lot of stuff
Click to expand...

In 2v2 thats probably a monster.
Im looking forward to seeing scraf on some random things. Thinking you can outspeed something and then getting hit with a ohko attack will be maddening.
 
I'm going to bring this topic back to the front since people really need to see that Choice Scarf is an awesome item to use on lead Pokemon. The main reason it's so awesome is that you can outspeed common leads like CB Weavile / CB Heracross and do something like McGraw had in his RMT with the Choice Scarf Flygon, where you can outspeed and make for a beneficial match-up with U-Turn.

Smart usage of maybe one Choice Scarf Pokemon on your team can add a great deal of flexibility, surprisingly, especially if the CSer has U-Turn.
 
I notice on someone's team on the board they had Choice Scarf on something with Reversal which is quite clever if you ask me. Pokemon tend to end up barely surviving hits to end up low on HP all the time... This allows for a Salac/Reversal type situation almost in those cases, but if you switch out due to an unbeneficial matchup... you dont lose all that speed...
 
Violent Storm said:
I notice on someone's team on the board they had Choice Scarf on something with Reversal which is quite clever if you ask me. Pokemon tend to end up barely surviving hits to end up low on HP all the time... This allows for a Salac/Reversal type situation almost in those cases, but if you switch out due to an unbeneficial matchup... you dont lose all that speed...
Click to expand...

There's only one Reversal user worth mentioning, and that's Lucario. He's also the only Reversal user with a 4x resistance to Stealth Rock, but he's too fragile otherwise to run a rather gimmicky @CS Reversal set. Not saying CS is bad on him, but it's not good with Reversal when he's the only STAB Reversaler immune to sandstream and he generally has better things to do.
 
well yes, but not every team is going to be sandstorm(especially in UU for example where neither Tyranitar or Hippo would be allowed most likely...) I was thinking more specifically along those lines...
 
Choice Scarf is of very little use against really slow teams though, and I see a lot of those.

278 Speed allows you to outspeed Ninjask without a +Speed nature, while 305 beats even Jolly Ninjask, as long as it doesn't have any Speed Boosts. 234-235 is pretty important to pass as well, as a lot of Pokemon are hanging around ~350. Think Gengar, Garchomp, Dugtrio and Infernape. I'd even go higher and try to beat 361 (Timid Starmie) as well.
 
I think it is clear choice scarf is best on two categories.

1. Strong pokemon with average/low speed.
- Including Medicham, Rampardos, Dragonite

2. Pokemon that simply want to counter another pokemon, i.e kill a Gyarados/Salamence after a dragon dance
- Anything with a Thunderbolt/Ice Beam that could ohko said pokemon. Also include AS Garchomp.

Obviously AS Gengar fits in somewhere too, but I honestly don't really know why it has a sudden popularity boom.
 
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