Pokémon Cinderace

malomyotismon

malomyotismon

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Cinderace
Type :
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Base Stats: 80 HP / 116 Atk / 75 Def / 65 SpA/ 75 SpD / 119 Spe
Abilities: Blaze / Libero HA
Notable Moves
-Pyro Ball
-Court Change
-U-Turn
-High Jump Kick
-Iron Head
-Zen Headbutt
-Gunk Shot
-Bulk Up
-Swords Dance
-Substitute
-Sucker Punch
-Taunt
-Wil-o-wisp

Pros
-libero may have been nerfed, but it's a free switch to the type of a used move, and can still be activated after switching back in rather than being locked into that type unlike the terra mechanic would cause.
-base 116 attack while not outstanding is still solid.
-119 Speed outpaces a lot of pokemon.
-A solid offensive pool that largely covers all the bases cinderace needs to cover.
-Court change in the previous Generations was more of a novelty is now a great asset in a meta plagued with hazards and gholdengo to now turn it on your opens heads and pivot out while being able to cover a lot of pokemon like the aforementioned Gholdengo in addition to this.
-This generation has given sword dance to the football rabbit so this speedy bunny can now boost that decent attack to much more potent levels than bulk up ever could.

Cons
-libero got nerfed so is now only able to switch the pokemons type once per switch in, on top of this it works poorly with the terra mechanic as once cinderace terrasalizes it's stuck in that terra type, rendering limbero inactive essentially meaning cinderace has no ability.
- 80 / 75 / 75 is not winning any awards for bulk.
-its movepool while good still leaves gaps in its coverage which leads cinderace to suffer from 4 mss.
-It's a pure fire type so it's weak to stealth rock and vulnerable to all hazards. Basically necessitating the use of heavy-duty boots, especially any sets that want to make good use of court change.

Terastal Potential:
As mentioned if you terra cinderace you are preventing the use of Limbero, so it's unlikely you want to ever terra cinderace and lose this ability. That said you could terra into fire for the usual stab on stab, electric, or grass with terra blast to hit the likes of dondozo but meh.

Potential Sets

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Limbero
Tera Type: Fire / Electric / Grass or preferably none
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Court Change / Wil-o-wisp
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick / Gunk shot / Zen Headbutt / Wil-o-wisp

The pivoting set of the modern rabbit. Court change swaps the effects on your opponent's field to yours not limited to but including hazards and as previously mentioned hazards are a dime a dozen in this meta so stealing them for yourself on a pokemon immune to them due to heavy-duty boots is a very nice win. Pyro ball is a powerful stab with great base power and a chance of a burn with imperfect but solid accuracy. U-turn is your bread-and-butter move that a heavy pivot needs to get out in a pinch. The choice of the last move is really what you need the rabbit to cover. Another option for the pivot set is to forgo court change more in favor of crippling would be switch ins with wil-o-wisp, crippling the very common switch ins like dragonite or the don that cinderace otherwise could not handle on its own.

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Limbero /Blaze
Tera Type: Fire / Electric / Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker punch / Gunk shot / Zen Headbutt / Terra Blast (electric/grass)
- High Jump Kick / Gunk shot / Zen Headbutt / Terra Blast (electric/grass)

So cinderace got access to a new boosting move in swords dance, a much-needed buff over bulk up to empower the rabbit to clean up and sweep. Still unfortunately this generation also introduced the obscenely physically bulky dondozo, which walls cinderace to hell and back with it's physical bulk and ability to ignore boosts. Get rid of the don and you've got a rabbit that is able to cleanly sweep thanks to it's raw power and speed, just be careful how you use swords dance or you'll be locked into the normal. Terra is more useful on this set to gain that extra coverage for the likes of the don and if you do get locked into the normal type after using swords dance for whatever reason.

Cinderace @ Choice band
Ability: Limbero
Tera Type: Fire / Electric / Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk shot / Zen Headbutt / Terra Blast (electric/grass) /wil-o-wisp
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick / Gunk shot / Zen Headbutt / Terra Blast (electric/grass) / wil-o-wisp

The Classic banded set. Fortunately for our two libero/protean pokemon they both have access to u-turn which is great for getting out rapidly in a pinch on a predicted switch while getting some stab chip in. Other than that it's a pretty straight forward set that's more useful for the limitation of libero these days, as you'll be locked into 1 move anyways, so being stuck in 1 type matters much less, wil-o-wisp is also a solid option to cripple switch ins like with the pivot set, especially as they expect cinderace to be locked into an unfavourable move. Some hazard control and you'll find a strong banded user in the soccer rabbit <3

Overall

It's a mixed bag for bunny, on the one hand, it's nerfs means that it's going to stay in ou this time round, on the other hand, it presents issues using new toys like swords dance. New threats also hinder this new toy in the like of the don. Still, cinderace will likely find a new solid niche as a pivot in this new meta with it's unique move of court change being more useful this generation to steal hazards and it's ability to hurt threats such as gholdengo and chi-yu with ease and get out with a pinch is very useful, allowing the footballing bunny to find a place in ou once more just not as a broken menace of destruction it was last generation.
 
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Is Swords Dance good? I have not seen a single Cinderace use Swords Dance while laddering and either being forced to Tera or relying on Normal STAB does not seem to be favorable. Maybe run Blaze over Libero to maintain Fire STAB.

Court Change Cinderace is mid. Kinda nice vs screen teams + not being blocked by Gholdengo is cool, but losing to nearly every hazard setter is less cool. I have gotten much more mileage out of Will-O-Wisp to cripple Great Tusks, Dragonite, Garchomp, and Azumarill that think Cinderace is a free switch-in. Running both on the same set is def an option though, as I have certainly used it more than Hi Jump Kick, but I think it is best used alongside another hazard remover like Corviknight.

Meowscarada is a fun partner for Cinderace since they can kinda do a U-Turn chain and Meowscarada can lure in and Knock off a lot of the annoying Rocky Helment users like Corviknight, Amoongus, etc. I like using Cinder in the early game to soften up a lot of stuff like Great Tusks so Meow can go ham in the late game.

One thing I do not like about Cinderace is its bulk. Its typing is defensively good, but it is so frail. It actually loses to Meowscarada since Banded Flower Trick is 2HKOing it on the switch most of the time. Despite its resistance to their attacks, Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao are dealing a boatload of damage to it, so other more reliable defensive answers are needed to these Pokemon. Chien-Pao esp is dangerous since it is faster.
 
Ruft said:
You should mention Will-O-Wisp, great tool to cripple common checks like Great Tusk.
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Is the sword dance set good, hmmm im not sure in all honest marcargo. Personally I have my doubts because of the idea of either being locked into normal type move or having to lock yourself into another type before using dance but decided to include it anyways for now.

Thanks for the advise I have added it now to band and pivot sets listed.
 
malomyotismon said:
Is the sword dance set good, hmmm im not sure in all honest marcargo. Personally I have my doubts because of the idea of either being locked into normal type move or having to lock yourself into another type before using dance but decided to include it anyways for now.

Thanks for the advise I have added it now to band and pivot sets listed.
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Something I half-seriously floated was the idea of Bulk Up instead of SD if you want to try a Boosting Cinderace. This sticks you into Fighting Typing instead of Normal for HJK as a slightly better main STAB outside Tera at the cost of one stage of power, and the defense boost can cushion priority even if it won't save you from a dedicated attack.

Honestly I'm iffy about Cinderace as a booster even aside from the Protean thing simply because its coverage is tricky to round out in 3 moves, which is why U-Turn to chip at those missed targets and bring in answers was so potent on it before.
 
While Cinderace isn't as threatening as it was in the past it still provides tremendous utility with its overall speed and Court Change. I think more offensively inclined sets face stiff competition from the Pokémon in the tier and its best set is Court Change/Pyro Ball/U-turn/Will-O-Wisp. Choice Band is the 2nd best but a lot less viable.
 
STEELDRAGON said:
While Cinderace isn't as threatening as it was in the past it still provides tremendous utility with its overall speed and Court Change. I think more offensively inclined sets face stiff competition from the Pokémon in the tier and its best set is Court Change/Pyro Ball/U-turn/Will-O-Wisp. Choice Band is the 2nd best but a lot less viable.
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im going to be working on a team that centers around cinderace and meowsquerna as a pivoting pair, so see how effective they are together.
 
malomyotismon said:
im going to be working on a team that centers around cinderace and meowsquerna as a pivoting pair, so see how effective they are together.
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Both are pretty similar. They have near identical stats but they differ in typing and Movepools. The main difference is that Cinderance has Court Change and Meowscarada has entry hazards.
 
Agreeing that Court Change is mid, as is Ace in general. I find myself always wanting Sucker anyway because not being able to touch Pult is just awful. Even with such high BP moves it feels weak at times and the low accuracy means you miss often. I feel forced to choose between either Adamant Boots and lose the speed tier, or Jolly CB and suffer the SR weakness just to maximize the attacks I do get off.

Changes to Libero makes setup sets annoying, it’s still navigable with Tera but otherwise adds clunk to already clunky kit. Ace isn’t bad tho, it does grab a lot of momentum off Steels like Ghold and Corv, and has a neat speed tier
 
STEELDRAGON said:
Both are pretty similar. They have near identical stats but they differ in typing and Movepools. The main difference is that Cinderance has Court Change and Meowscarada has entry hazards.
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indeed their coverage does compliment one another and i think it's a solid way to pair two pivots. In the past bird or dragon spam were devastating things in their own rights, so perhaps these two similar but distinct pivots can find a similar ground, although devastating is not what it be but perhaps an effective pair i hope
?
 
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