Conkeldurr (took over and updated it) (QC 0/3)

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Steve Angello

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[OVERVIEW]
  • Stellar Attack
  • Decent Defenses
  • Good offensive STAB
  • Sufficient offensive movepool including a priority STAB
  • Two excellent abilities in Sheer Force and Guts, either boosting it's coverage significantly to make it an effective wallbreaker or making it a status absorber respectively.
  • Useful resistances to Dark and Rock
  • Crippling weaknesses to Flying, Fairy, and Psychic
  • Very low Speed
  • Struggles against several metagame defining threats such as Talonflame, Metagross, Diancie, and Sableye.

[Set]
name: Sheer Force Attacker
move 1: Mach Punch
move 2: Drain Punch / Superpower
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Thunder Punch / Poison Jab / Stone Edge
item: Life Orb
ability: Sheer Force
nature: Adamant
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe

[Set Comments]

Moves
========
  • Mach Punch is mandatory as priority is very useful to Conkeldurr, the other moves are highly dependent on Conkeldurr's teammates.
  • Drain Punch is more consistent than Superpower, but Superpower does an enormous amount of damage to bulky neutral targets.
  • Ice Punch hits bulky Ground types that it's partners tend to lure out.
  • ThunderPunch hits bulky Water types such as Gyarados, Slowbro, and Manaphy.
  • Life Orb is used to take advantage of Sheer Force and increase Conkeldurr's power without having to rely on the opponent inflicting status on it.
  • If having Fairies lured and eliminated is beneficial to Conkeldurr's team, Poison Jab gets the Sheer Force boost and can be used over one of the typical coverage moves.
  • Stone Edge can be used as an Talonflame lure.
Set Details
========
  • The EVs are just enough to outspeed defensive Skarmory while maximizing power, however, if Skarmory and normal Scizor are not a concern, an alternative spread of 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe can be used for Clefable and 84 Spe Azumarill.
  • Sheer Force gives a huge boost to Conkeldurr's coverage moves, allowing it to muscle past it's typical checks, and Life Orb is used to further increase Conkeldurr's power and take advantage of Sheer Force nulling the recoil on moves boosted by Sheer Force.

Usage Tips
========
  • Bring out Conkeldurr early in the game to punch holes in the opponent's team, this Conkeldurr does very well against common hazard leads such as Garchomp, Tyranitar, Landorus-T, and Ferrothorn.
  • Conkeldurr should be used to lure out and maim common physical walls for its teammates.
  • Life Orb Conkeldurr's Mach Punch is very strong, so even at low health it can be still be useful later as a revenge killer. Otherwise, once Conkeldurr has done it's job in the early game it is mostly death fodder.
  • When in doubt, Superpower does solid damage to all but the bulkiest resists (if you choose to use it).
  • Most people expect Assault Vest Conkeldurr, so avoid revealing Life Orb unless absolutely necessary for maximum effect. This will also dissuade the opponent from using status on Conkeldurr.
Team Options
========
  • Sheer Force Conkeldurr fits in well on physically oriented offense teams that enjoy having physical walls like Hippowdon and Slowbro broken.
  • Mega Sableye is a pretty hard counter to this set, so any Fairy type works well with this Conkeldurr. Mega Diancie deserves a special mention since Conkeldurr takes down a lot of its common checks and counters such as Ferrothorn and SDef Skarmory.
  • Talonflame is an excellent partner for Conkeldurr, as it holds up against the Fairies that threaten Conkeldurr, while Conkeldurr weakens or eliminates Pokemon in the way of a Talonflame sweep. Excadrill works similarly, while also resisting Psychic.
  • This Conkeldurr also struggles greatly against bulky Psychic types that it can't hit super effectively like Cresselia. Therefore, strong Dark and Ghost attackers work well with Conkeldurr.
[Set]
name: Assault Vest
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Mach Punch
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
ability: Guts
item: Assault Vest
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 SDef / 20 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========
  • Drain Punch is the mandatory STAB move on this set to maximize Conkeldurr's longevity.
  • Knock Off hits Gengar and Psychic types such as Latios and Starmie that the other moves may not cover.
  • Ice Punch is typically the preferred coverage move to hit bulky Grounds such as Landorus-T and Garchomp.
  • Stone Edge is mostly to hit Talonflame, Charizard Y, Pinsir, and Volcarona.
  • Poison Jab can once again be used in the last slot to hit Fairies such as Clefable and Gardevoir.
  • Assault Vest allows Conkeldurr to take hits from powerful special attackers like Keldeo and Gengar and retaliate with the appropriate move.
Set Details
========
  • Instead of being a wallbreaker like the previous set, this Conkeldurr acts more as an offensive pivot to sponge hits from certain special attackers that offensive teams otherwise have no switch ins to.
  • The minimal investment in Speed is mostly to outspeed Hippowdon and hit it with Ice Punch before it can recover or use Stealth Rocks.
  • Guts is the best ability for this set to absorb and punish the use of status, and boosted Drain Punches often offset the residual damage from poison and burn.
Usage Tips
========
  • This Conkeldurr can directly switch into more attacks than the previous set, in fact, the whole point of AV Conkeldurr is to avoid having other, more significant teammates take unnecessary damage from powerful special attackers.
  • AV Conkeldurr can also act as a status absorber for it's team, since it will then get the Guts boost.
  • This Conkeldurr is also the most useful in the early and mid game when the opponent's special attackers are healthy.
  • Knock Off is a very safe move to spam when in doubt.
Team Options
========
  • Pokemon that enjoy having a sponge for special Electric types, Genies, and Gengar are good partners for Conkeldurr. Pokemon that come to mind include Rotom-W, Slowbro, Landorus-T, and Metagross.
  • This particular Conkeldurr enjoys hazard support since it otherwise struggles to attain certain 2HKOes on bulkier offensive threats such as Mega Manectric after Intimidate.
  • Pokemon that like having a status absorber pair well with Conkeldurr, again, Landorus-T and Metagross fit this category as well as sweepers that often get cut off by Will-o-Wisp or Thunder Wave, such as Mega Altaria and Mega Gyarados.
  • Hazard removal is also quite important to ensure Conkeldurr survives certain hits.
  • Mega Sableye walls this set even harder than the last, so Fairy types that can deal with Sableye are good partners for this set as well
  • Pokemon that weaken or beat Hippowdon or Clefable are really needed. For example Swords Dance Terrakion, Nasty Plot Thundurus, mixed Jirachi, Grass Knot Gothitelle and Power Herb Heatran work well with Conkeldurr.
[Strategy Comments]

Other Options
=============
  • Rock Slide does get boosted by Sheer Force but it isn't recommended on that set as it doesn't actually attain any notable KOes over using it on the Guts AV set. Rock Slide can also be used on the AV set over Stone Edge for more accuracy.
  • Fire Punch is an alternative coverage move that can be used to take on Mega Scizor better.
  • Iron Fist is Conkeldurr's third ability but is usually inferior to Guts and Sheer Force due to those two giving larger boosts.

Checks and Counters
===================
  • **Mega Sableye**: tanks anything either set can throw at it and just Recovers off the damage.
  • **Mega Venusaur**: it tanks any move of Conkeldurr and recovers its HP back.
  • **Mega Scizor**: can take on any move as well and roosts the hp up, set up fodder.
  • **Psychic types**: such as Mega Metagross, Mega Latias, Reuniclus, and Cresselia that can shrug off Knock Off also handle Conkeldurr well. Furthermore there is Slowbro, it fears Thunder Punch.
  • **Flying types**: Talonflame and Mega Pinsir almost always force Conkeldurr out.
  • **Fairy Types**: Strong Fairy type attackers like Sylveon, Clefable, Azumarill, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Altaria threaten Conkeldurr greatly and often force it to switch out, but they fear Poison Jab.
  • **Bulky Ground Types**: The likes of Hippowdon, Quagsire, and Landorus-T can also handle Conkeldurr well with good predictions.
 
Also, with the given EVs for the SF set, Conk reaches 176, while 164 Azu creeps it at 177.

I think it's better to just go full speed and attack, as I'm not sure how great an impact those 40HP evs have. This allows you to creep most azu and blast it with Thunder Punch, while also giving the added benefit of allowing you to snipe off weakened Klef and hit uninvested Mega Scizor for pretty reasonable damage, giving the chance to KO after rocks:

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 110-130 (32 - 37.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Conkeldurr Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor: 200-238 (58.3 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This is especially pertinent because Mega Diancie is recommended as a teammate for this set, and it HATES scizor.
 
Azumarill can't be mentioned unless you talk about uninvested ones, because Speed creep isn't allowed in analyses.
 
Karxrida said:
Azumarill can't be mentioned unless you talk about uninvested ones, because Speed creep isn't allowed in analyses.
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You're completely misinterpreting the no speed creep rule. It doesn't mean you can't talk about Pokemon that commonly invest in a certain amount of Speed; that would lead to unrealistic and uninformative analyses. It means you can't say stuff like "use 40 spe mew to outspeed all of the 36 spe mew trying to outspeed standard 32 spe mew." It becomes endless.

With that said, the alternate spread 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe should be changed to 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe, because the benchmark should be uninvested base 60, not azu trying to outspeed neutral base 60. I would keep the azu mention but note that you're tying with it.
 
Karxrida said:
Azumarill can't be mentioned unless you talk about uninvested ones, because Speed creep isn't allowed in analyses.
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CyclicCompound said:
You're completely misinterpreting the no speed creep rule. It doesn't mean you can't talk about Pokemon that commonly invest in a certain amount of Speed; that would lead to unrealistic and uninformative analyses. It means you can't say stuff like "use 40 spe mew to outspeed all of the 36 spe mew trying to outspeed standard 32 spe mew." It becomes endless.

With that said, the alternate spread 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe should be changed to 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe, because the benchmark should be uninvested base 60, not azu trying to outspeed neutral base 60. I would keep the azu mention but note that you're tying with it.
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Sorry, I didn't realise. I still think that max speed Adamant is better for the SF set though, due to outspeeding uninvested Mega Scizor and below. Unless those 48 HP EVs actually accomplish anything important?
 
It seems kinda odd that Stone Edge's current description on the Sheer Force set is to lure Talonflame, when Thunder Punch just KOes it regardless and doesn't have imperfect accuracy.

252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 426-504 (118.6 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
One thing I don't like about the Sheer Force analysis is that it lists Mach Punch is mandatory on it. Priority is certainly very good especially when its strong, and should definitely be one of the main options. However, the coverage options in the last moveslot should be slashed alongside it (or perhaps mention in the description that you can run a coverage move over mach punch). I've recently played nearly 150+ games with LO Conk and I have barely missed mach punch as the coverage move I have over it was much more important, and conk was still very effective without mach punch. Obviously it depends on the team and mach punch should certainly be the main option, but it would be misleading to claim that it is mandatory as conkeldurr can also perform just as well and sometimes better with a coverage move in place of it.
 
FlamingVictini said:
One thing I don't like about the Sheer Force analysis is that it lists Mach Punch is mandatory on it. Priority is certainly very good especially when its strong, and should definitely be one of the main options. However, the coverage options in the last moveslot should be slashed alongside it (or perhaps mention in the description that you can run a coverage move over mach punch). I've recently played nearly 150+ games with LO Conk and I have barely missed mach punch as the coverage move I have over it was much more important, and conk was still very effective without mach punch. Obviously it depends on the team and mach punch should certainly be the main option, but it would be misleading to claim that it is mandatory as conkeldurr can also perform just as well and sometimes better with a coverage move in place of it.
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I would argue that with Mach Punch/T Punch/Ice Punch/Superpower you have all the coverage you need - Mach Punch really is important as Conk is still pretty slow, and LO Mach Punch is great for cleaning up late game, picking off Scizor, etc.

With the popularity of Sand/Weavile, it's REALLY useful, and means that Conk's not completely deadweight against Offense (which is pretty popular right now). It also does a solid 50% to Hoopa.

After 500+ games with it I only really feel I need Poison Jab for Clef, but Talon's a great teammate, and IP/TP still does a good chunk to it, forcing it to recover. In fact, I was running Poison Jab in the first version of my team, but changed it to Mach Punch 'cos Conk wasn't contributing enough.

What move are you putting in place of Mach Punch?
 
I've been using P-Jab as my team needs the coverage for clef in place of mach punch (it also has some uses in getting off stronger neutral hits but thats not very important). Its obviously very situational and I understand p-jab isn't used for much; I hope i made it clear in my original post that mach punch is the superior option most of the time. I just don't like how its listed as mandatory when really its not mandatory, but just almost always better than its other options. Sometimes your team can't fit a talonflame or other solid clef answer, or forcing clef to recover isn't enough. Its always subjective. Something like Drain/Spower is mandatory (one or the other) as you need your strong fighting stab 100%. I just find that after playing so many games i haven't felt the need for mach punch 100%. This is more just a change of the wording and how you convey the priorities of the set so that if people want to make changes to better suit their team they are more informed.
 
I'm not QC, so take what you will from this post.

I agree with FlamingVictini that Mach Punch is far from mandatory on Conk. Definitely make a point of saying that P-Jab can be used over Mach Punch in moves, but really, when it comes down to slashes, I feel that you should keep Mach Punch in its own slot. Conk really does fall flat v.s. offense without it, making it very important option on the vast majority of balance/bulky offense teams (the type that you see Conk on).

Speaking of Poison Jab, I feel that it should be slashed with both of the elemental punches on the Sheer Force set. I was debating whether I felt that it should be reduced to a moves mention because it means that Conk is missing out on the important coverage or utility (an elemental punch or Mach Punch) for the sake of hitting one target for an OHKO (unless we count Sylveon, who is outpaced 2HKO'd by the elemental punches anyway unless its running the horrifically outclassed cleric set). However, I realised that having Ice Punch is far from mandatory. For example, on one of my teams that I used not too long ago, I ran a moveset of Mach Punch, Drain Punch, Thunder Punch and Poison Jab; my team didn't struggle with ground-types at all, but it struggled v.s. Clefable and Gyarados - making Ice Punch redundant coverage for the team. This lack of necessity is the key reason why I feel that it should be slashed with both elemental punches as opposed to just Thunder Punch.

On another note, Rock-type coverage is completely redundant on Conkeldurr as all of its targets are already hit reasonably hard by its coverage options anyway. On SF, Stone Edge is inferior to Rock Slide (iirc it only has 2.5 BP over Rock Slide at the cost of a lot of accuracy) but also means it is losing out on Thunder Punch, which is its only way of handling bulky waters; in addition, Volc - which is 2HKOed by Thunder Punch or Poison Jab - is the only Rock Slide target not OHKOed by a SF+LO Thunder Punch. As for AV, it really shouldn't be trying to solo any Stone Edge's its targets in the first place, while all of its targets are hit more than hard enough by Knock Off or Ice Punch on switch-in anyway.

tl;dr of post:
  • Mention the possibility of forgoing Mach Punch for Poison Jab in moves for the SF set, but don't slash it with Mach Punch as the the latter will be more useful on the vast majority of teams.
  • Slash Poison Jab with both elemental punches on the SF set as Ice Punch is far from mandatory.
  • Drop Stone Edge and Rock Slide to OO as they are redundant coverage on Conkeldurr.
 
I pretty much completely agree with gamer boy's post. If your not convinced about removing stone edge from the sheer force set (or at least replacing it with rock slide), then the added bonus that it doesn't take LO recoil is enough to warrant its use over stone edge, although i really don't feel rock coverage is that great over tpunch.
 
I disagree with every comment above stating Mach Punch isn't mandatory when it's one of the few legitimate options Connkeldurr will have to improve its matchup against most offense. Without Mach Punch you become a liability to sand, M-Lopunny, Bisharp, everything above your speed tier, etc and in a weakened state will have no other option but to lose.

I think rock coverage is pretty niche, granted yes you're hitting those targets but they're either, not stuff you want to be going up against in the realm of reality if they get in safely, or already hit with a more legitimate option.

  • Most people expect Assault Vest Conkeldurr, so avoid revealing Life Orb unless absolutely necessary for maximum effect. This will also dissuade the opponent from using status on Conkeldurr.
Click to expand...
When my mon is getting blasted back to the next millennia by a Superpower or Drain Punch that's doing a little more than it really should be you're not fooling me once you've hit. This line is redundant the idea of expectation should come down to the fact people should understand both are perfectly legitimate options. Surprise factor is lame, line can be removed.

QC 1/3 after that.
 
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