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Counter-Sash Weavile?

Can Counter-Sash Weavile be used?

  • Total voters
    103
he never said it was the starter, watch the video i posted in my last post...many teams dont carry stealth rock, it works in those times, and he said it could use this set:
-counter
-swords dance
-filler
-filler

meaning if you dont want to counter you can just swords dance sweep, counter isnt the only option.
 
dragonsyth1 said:
he never said it was the starter, watch the video i posted in my last post...many teams dont carry stealth rock, it works in those times, and he said it could use this set:
-counter
-swords dance
-filler
-filler

meaning if you dont want to counter you can just swords dance sweep, counter isnt the only option.
Click to expand...
I saw the video and the guy who filmed doesn't seems really that good, he was getting owned by an UU team. :\
And I still say that Weavile can do much better things than trying to predict physical attacks with Counter and Focus Sash.
 
I'll update the first post with the post I did a few posts ago about Swords Dance, etc. If you see that you're opponent is most likely going to switch out, use SD. Then, even after you counter, having a Swords Dance power-up with you will allow to sweep even with Ice Punch and Pursuit/Night Slash, etc.
 
Yoko Rains said:
I'll update the first post with the post I did a few posts ago about Swords Dance, etc. If you see that you're opponent is most likely going to switch out, use SD. Then, even after you counter, having a Swords Dance power-up with you will allow to sweep even with Ice Punch and Pursuit/Night Slash, etc.
Click to expand...
Magnezone and Heatran will laugh at you, and they are very used.
 
The way I see it is that you can argue how good this set is until you're blue in the face. It has it's merits, but the bottom line is that it isn't going to become a standard set for Weavile, purely because it's other sets pack more power. Sure, it can take down an unsuspecting Pokemon once in a while, but is too situational to be considered anything but "surprise" or novelty set.

in over 50 shoddy battles i have seen:
1 heatran
0 magnezones

so i dont think that arguments a good one.
Click to expand...
I'm really hoping you're not serious. Your personal experience brings absolutely nothing to the argument. You really should take a look at this. Shoddy's weighted statistics show that Heatran and Magnezone are ranked 13th and 33rd respectively in terms of the most widely used Pokemon on competitive teams
 
Blue Kirby, I'm not arguing. I'm also not trying to make this a standard set, I'm just wondering if this set would successfully work in battle.
 
I voted yes but as I thought about it some more, there are some factors that make it not as useful as it could be.

Firstly, you have to think about the physical attackers that are likely to switch into weavile. The most common ones are steel types, swampert and gyarados. Gyarados will probably just DD because your attacks are non threatening after intimidate. Swampert will probably set up rocks. Skarmory and forretress will set up their entry hazards too. Same with bronzong who may also just hypnosis expecting a switch and hoping to sleep a counter. Scizor will swords dance and metagross will use agility.

The point is, any one of the common weavile switch ins may fall for your bait and attack you but they are also just as likely to set up something. So you better hope that you predict right when to use counter or your whole strategy will be revealed.
 
I would say just as a lead. You would probably have to give it something like this:
Weavile@ Focus Sash
Jolly
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Hp
~Counter
~Hail
~Pursuit/Night Slash
~Ice Punch

It has Hail to get rid of Sandstream.
 
Blue Kirby said:
The way I see it is that you can argue how good this set is until you're blue in the face. It has it's merits, but the bottom line is that it isn't going to become a standard set for Weavile, purely because it's other sets pack more power. Sure, it can take down an unsuspecting Pokemon once in a while, but is too situational to be considered anything but "surprise" or novelty set.

I'm really hoping you're not serious. Your personal experience brings absolutely nothing to the argument. You really should take a look at this. Shoddy's weighted statistics show that Heatran and Magnezone are ranked 13th and 33rd respectively in terms of the most widely used Pokemon on competitive teams
Click to expand...

i havent seen them used much maybe im just lucky i dont think my team could handle a heatran if i did come across one, thanks for the link to the statistics, i didnt know that existed.
 
Yoko Rains said:
I've been in at least a dozen battles. And in nearly every one of those battles, I've used Weavile. Weavile is one of my favorite Pokemon not only in battling, but "coolness-wise". After seeing Weavile's capabilities, I've been wondering, can Weavile successfully use a Counter-Sash set? I checked the analysis to see if it has been mentioned, but didn't see anything. Therefore, I've been wondering if this were to work.

I want some opinions.

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Hasty - Pressure
40 HP, 252 Attack, 216 Speed

- Counter
- Ice Punch
- Pursuit
- Brick Break

The point of this moveset is for it to be either used as a starter, or when you get a free switch-in. The point of it is to damage as much as you can before getting hit. When you get hit, try and make sure that you're getting hit by a pretty hard hitter to ensure that you'll be down to 1 HP. Then, you use Counter, and deal back double damage, easily killing whatever hit you. This set might be usable. Hasty over Jolly since Hasty is a - defense nature, which will ensure that when you're hit, you're hit hard.

I also think that Ice Shard can be an option in this set instead of Ice Punch. Ice Shard will guarantee you a first hit, though barely half the power of Ice Punch. Night Slash can also be used IMO, but Pursuit is better since you can hit stuff that switches out. Aerial Ace might be usable over Brick Break.

Overall, I was wondering if this set can be used. Thats why I have a poll. I'd like to see what everyone thinks of this set.

Also, I was thinking if you don't like the fact Weavile doesn't have Choice Band, why not this:

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Hasty - Pressure
216 Speed, 252 Attack, 40 HP

- Swords Dance
- Counter
- Ice Punch
- Pursuit

Alright. This one looks weird, but heres the strategy. If you see something that is most likely going to switch out from you, you Swords Dance. Now you have +2 attack, and can sweep. Then, when you're opponents biggest physical threat comes out, you let it hit you, and counter it back and kill it. Even after the counter, you still have that +2 attack, allowing you to sweep until further problems arise.


Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

Why only use only 216 speed? Hp is not imported to him better you try to outspeed more. 40 Hp is doing nothing.
 
The analysis itself recommends that. Why? I think because since Weavile is so fast, 216 speed gives it enough to outspeed anything that might outspeed it.
 
Yoko Rains said:
The analysis itself recommends that. Why? I think because since Weavile is so fast, 216 speed gives it enough to outspeed anything that might outspeed it.
Click to expand...
Jolly Swallow outspeed it then and hit before with Facade.
He needs more than 374 SPD 50/50 to begin is not a trust.
 
Yoko Rains said:
The analysis itself recommends that. Why? I think because since Weavile is so fast, 216 speed gives it enough to outspeed anything that might outspeed it.
Click to expand...
Weavile needs to tie Swellow and other Weavile, which are OHKO'd by Ice Punch and BB respectively while enemy Swellow can OHKO with Facade (and possibly U-Turn). That analysis needs updating.
 
You people are confusing me! Ok, lets say I want to use a standard SD/CB Weavile, what EV Spread do I give it?! I don't want to be messing up lol =D
 
Screw it, I found the set for you so have fun.

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Hasty ? 252 Speed, 252 Atk, 4 HP | 0 Def IVs
Pressure
~ Counter
~ Swords Dance
~ Ice Punch / Ice Shard
~ Night Slash

What you?d want to do is either use Swords Dance on the first turn, if you?re expecting a switch, and Counter if you think you?re going to get hit by a physical attack: with max HP, Counter will OHKO pretty much anything, as almost every physical attack will OHKO Weavile (which will now thus put him at 1 HP, making Counter very effectively). If that physical attack isn?t coming, just keep sweeping with Ice Punch and Night Slash.
It doesn't need any HP EVs, because it will already OHKO Snorlax with Counter, which is the only pokemon with an enormous HP stat and the ability to hit hard with physical attacks.
Click to expand...
 
I didn't see this set on the site, weird.

However, forbidden, the other question; is 216 speed, 252 attack, 40 HP a good spread for a normal SD/CB Weavile?
 
It's not a question whether it can or cannot be use, it's a question of what is better for Weavile. Weavile has low HP and high Speed. Using an attack based on HP and that ignores Speed is foolhardy.
 
I could've sworn that I posted something almost exactly like this on another forum.

The idea behind it is mainly the surprise factor and that you can indeed do serious damage with Counter. I for one, think that the set has possibilities. Especially since I usually enjoy OHKO'ing Weavile with ScarfGar.

So, yeah. I'm all for it.
 
Yoko Rains said:
I didn't see this set on the site, weird.

However, forbidden, the other question; is 216 speed, 252 attack, 40 HP a good spread for a normal SD/CB Weavile?
Click to expand...

I don't see why it needs HP for since it's already so fragile.
 
Junior said:
I don't see why it needs HP for since it's already so fragile.
Click to expand...
Read the analysis. If you had, you'd have known that with 40HP EVs Weavile is guaranteed to survive a flamethrower from non attack boosting items Azelf. It also survives a modest specs starmie surf.
 
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