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Other Counter That Pokemon! (Final Battle Friday @ 12 PM EST)
- Thread starter Halcyon.
- Start date
- Status
Ok round 4 is officially over! The votes were as follows:
Twave Ferro: 5
SR Ferrothorn: 4
AV Azumarill: 4
LO Deo-S: 2
Def Rotom-W: 2
Def Sylveon: 2
Sub Kyurem: 2
Def Slowbro: 1
Wish Vaporeon: 1
And with that, Team 1's second pick is Thunder Wave Ferrothorn! Now in Round 5, Team 1 will get yet another pick. This one as a bit of freedom, as we already have the Pokemon Team 2 picked countered, but it should most likely still have a way to at least check the picks of Team 2. However, it's possible to go more offensive than defensive with this pick if you so choose. So get to nominating!
Twave Ferro: 5
SR Ferrothorn: 4
AV Azumarill: 4
LO Deo-S: 2
Def Rotom-W: 2
Def Sylveon: 2
Sub Kyurem: 2
Def Slowbro: 1
Wish Vaporeon: 1
And with that, Team 1's second pick is Thunder Wave Ferrothorn! Now in Round 5, Team 1 will get yet another pick. This one as a bit of freedom, as we already have the Pokemon Team 2 picked countered, but it should most likely still have a way to at least check the picks of Team 2. However, it's possible to go more offensive than defensive with this pick if you so choose. So get to nominating!
Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Quiet Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
This is the standard Substitute attacker set for Kyurem-B, but with max HP instead of speed investment. This is important since neither Dragonite's Extreme Speed or Greninja's U-turn can break Kyurem-B's sub with max HP investment. Kyurem-B can set up a sub on Greninja and almost guarantee a kill unless Team 2 makes a very defensive pick. Teravolt allows Kyurem-B to easily OHKO Dragonite with Ice Beam. I chose a Quiet nature because I did not want to lower its defenses and it still outspeeds Dragonite. Kyurem-B not only checks Dragonite and Greninja, but uses them to set up Substitutes which makes it a good pick for Team 1.
New Nomination, check post #239
Ok, since a Fire-type/Breloom is most likely incoming, I feel as though something to counter these Pokemon would be helpful. As such, here's my nomination:
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
Basically, this set is a little odd, but I feel as though it would be the most beneficial to our team. Latios can easily come in on any Fire- and Grass-type attacks, and can fire back with a powerful STAB Draco Meteor. Thanks to its secondary STAB, it also has a way to revenge kill the likes of Breloom and Infernape (lol) if our opponents do try to choose them. Earthquake, while normally seen as a shit move for Latios, is great for nailing Heatran, which deters Team 2 from picking this. Finally, Sleep Talk makes sure that Breloom isn't even an option for our opponent, as Sleep Talk Latios is one of the best Breloom counters in the game. I decided to not go with Defog as our team really isn't all that Stealth Rock weak, and Sleep Talk seems much better for keeping Breloom away. The only thing that Latios really can't come in on is Volcarona and Charizard X, however, they both cause problems for Team 2. The first is massively weak to Stealth Rocks, and means that Defog support would be absolutely necessary for Team 2 (Since we'll eventually be choosing Stealth Rocks). Charizard X also wastes out opponent's Mega Evolution, which can cause problems later on.
Overall, Latios has the moves that prevent Team 2 from choosing the most optimal choice in a Pokemon, while also providing solid offensive capabilities. I'm open to suggestions for this set, though, as the moves are kinda weird haha.
Ok, since a Fire-type/Breloom is most likely incoming, I feel as though something to counter these Pokemon would be helpful. As such, here's my nomination:
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
Basically, this set is a little odd, but I feel as though it would be the most beneficial to our team. Latios can easily come in on any Fire- and Grass-type attacks, and can fire back with a powerful STAB Draco Meteor. Thanks to its secondary STAB, it also has a way to revenge kill the likes of Breloom and Infernape (lol) if our opponents do try to choose them. Earthquake, while normally seen as a shit move for Latios, is great for nailing Heatran, which deters Team 2 from picking this. Finally, Sleep Talk makes sure that Breloom isn't even an option for our opponent, as Sleep Talk Latios is one of the best Breloom counters in the game. I decided to not go with Defog as our team really isn't all that Stealth Rock weak, and Sleep Talk seems much better for keeping Breloom away. The only thing that Latios really can't come in on is Volcarona and Charizard X, however, they both cause problems for Team 2. The first is massively weak to Stealth Rocks, and means that Defog support would be absolutely necessary for Team 2 (Since we'll eventually be choosing Stealth Rocks). Charizard X also wastes out opponent's Mega Evolution, which can cause problems later on.
Overall, Latios has the moves that prevent Team 2 from choosing the most optimal choice in a Pokemon, while also providing solid offensive capabilities. I'm open to suggestions for this set, though, as the moves are kinda weird haha.
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I think Latios is a very risky choice for Team 1. It does not check Greninja or Dragonite. Dragonite can actually stall out Draco Meteor if it gets a free switch in and it can OHKO Latios with Dragon Claw. If Team 1 picks Latios, Team 2 will probably pick Clefable or Celebi which can wall Latios and are not affected by Ferrothorn's Leech Seed.Ok, since a Fire-type/Breloom is most likely incoming, I feel as though something to counter these Pokemon would be helpful. As such, here's my nomination:
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
Basically, this set is a little odd, but I feel as though it would be the most beneficial to our team. Latios can easily come in on any Fire- and Grass-type attacks, and can fire back with a powerful STAB Draco Meteor. Thanks to its secondary STAB, it also has a way to revenge kill the likes of Breloom and Infernape (lol) if our opponents do try to choose them. Earthquake, while normally seen as a shit move for Latios, is great for nailing Heatran, which deters Team 2 from picking this. Finally, Sleep Talk makes sure that Breloom isn't even an option for our opponent, as Sleep Talk Latios is one of the best Breloom counters in the game. I decided to not go with Defog as our team really isn't all that Stealth Rock weak, and Sleep Talk seems much better for keeping Breloom away. The only thing that Latios really can't come in on is Volcarona and Charizard X, however, they both cause problems for Team 2. The first is massively weak to Stealth Rocks, and means that Defog support would be absolutely necessary for Team 2 (Since we'll eventually be choosing Stealth Rocks). Charizard X also wastes out opponent's Mega Evolution, which can cause problems later on.
Overall, Latios has the moves that prevent Team 2 from choosing the most optimal choice in a Pokemon, while also providing solid offensive capabilities. I'm open to suggestions for this set, though, as the moves are kinda weird haha.
I feel the exact same thing could be said about Kyurem-B, though. I mean, while it does do well against Dragonite/Greninja, it also is inviting Fighting/Fire-type. If we chose Kyurem-B, nothing on our team would resist Fire, and Fighting-types with a good STAB combination (Such as Keldeo, Terrakion, Infernape, etc.) could be serious problem. My choice wasn't so much as to check Dragonite/Greninja, but to prevent Team 2 from choosing certain Pokemon from coming in to help guarantee that Ferrothorn can be as successful as possible. I also see no reason why our second choice should have to deal with Dragonite/Greninja; Ferrothorn already does that beautifully. Finally, unlike powerful Pokemon such as Choice Banded Terrakion, Clefable is very one-dimensional since we'll know its set, and as such it'll be quite easy to counter.
Also with a U-Turn Pokemon like Landorus, I feel as though Latios will mainly be coming in once Multiscale is broken, where this can happen:
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dragonite: 398-471 (103.1 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Not even sure if that's the spread or not, but it just shows that Latios can reliably KO Dragonite once Multiscale is gone.)
But definitely thanks for that, it made me think more about why Latios could be successful haha.
Just because we have Ferrothorn on Team 1 doesn't mean we shouldn't make sure that Team 1 has an offensive check to Team 2's threats. If Team 1 picks Latios, Team 2 could then shift its focus from countering Team 1 to overwhelming Ferrothorn with offensive pressure in order to create a win condition since Team 2 already has two checks to Latios. It doesn't matter that Latios discourages Team 2 from picking certain threats because Team 2 will just pick things which can handle Latios instead. The fact that Latios uses Draco Meteor will encourage Team 2 to pick something which can set up on a -2 Latios which will cause Team 1 big problems. Kyurem-B makes it hard for Team 2 to do anything useful with Dragonite and Greninja because they will have to get through both a counter and a check.
By the way, Landorus's U-turn only has a small chance of doing enough damage to Dragonite to keep Multiscale broken after Leftovers, and Latios loses to Dragonite with Multiscale intact.
Ok, fair enough. I still feel as though Kyurem-B has some pretty glaring flaws that can be exploited (but then again, most picks do) but I do understand where you're coming from. I guess preparing for the future wasn't the best idea haha. I'll probably change my nomination :)
Ok guys, bringing back one of my older nominations :)
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 28 HP / 228 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
Ok, bringing back the big bad Assault Vest Azumarill! With Assault Vest, Azumarill has some great bulk, allowing it to switch in to both Greninja and Dragonite quite easily. It's also quite good at revenge killing both, as each of them can only 3HKO at most (the chance of Greninja 3HKOing is super small and only after Stealth Rocks.) Azumarill also brings some much needed priority to this team, allowing to revenge kill possible picks for Team 2 next round (Such as Volcarona or Infernape.) 28 HP EVs guarantee Azumarill will only be 3HKOd by Earthquake, even after Stealth Rocks, while the rest are dumped into Special Defense to further Azumarill's bulk. Overall, Azumarill is a great tank who can reliably take on Greninja and Dragonite while also adding priority to the team. :)
Does this seem better, Red Cat? I know it probably has some flaws but I think it'd preform much better than Latios :)
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 28 HP / 228 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
Ok, bringing back the big bad Assault Vest Azumarill! With Assault Vest, Azumarill has some great bulk, allowing it to switch in to both Greninja and Dragonite quite easily. It's also quite good at revenge killing both, as each of them can only 3HKO at most (the chance of Greninja 3HKOing is super small and only after Stealth Rocks.) Azumarill also brings some much needed priority to this team, allowing to revenge kill possible picks for Team 2 next round (Such as Volcarona or Infernape.) 28 HP EVs guarantee Azumarill will only be 3HKOd by Earthquake, even after Stealth Rocks, while the rest are dumped into Special Defense to further Azumarill's bulk. Overall, Azumarill is a great tank who can reliably take on Greninja and Dragonite while also adding priority to the team. :)
Does this seem better, Red Cat? I know it probably has some flaws but I think it'd preform much better than Latios :)
How about this
Rotom-Wash @ Choice scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- will-o-wisp
- Trick
He can take every Moves that Landorous and Ferrothorn cannot take. He also makes a great volt-turn combo with Landorous and hit hard every mons that Landorous cannot hit.
He is also a solid check to Dragonite and greninja, as he takes about 60% from Extrasensory and then OHKO greninja back with his Stab Volt switch .
(Thank you ganj4lF for pointing out the error of my calc )
Rotom-W can take Greninja's Hydro pump and then OHKO back with Volt switch
Trick Destroy that SpDef Dragonite as long as he still hold Choice Scarf Or just Will-o-wisp him to break the multi scale
Taking scarfed Rotom-W to Team 1 mean that Team 2 must get some mons such as Mega Venusaur, Chestnaught or the old Gastrodon who can easily be handled by Landorous and Ferrothorn
BTW, Sorry for my bad English
Rotom-Wash @ Choice scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- will-o-wisp
- Trick
He can take every Moves that Landorous and Ferrothorn cannot take. He also makes a great volt-turn combo with Landorous and hit hard every mons that Landorous cannot hit.
He is also a solid check to Dragonite and greninja
(Thank you ganj4lF for pointing out the error of my calc )
Rotom-W can take Greninja's Hydro pump and then OHKO back with Volt switch
Trick Destroy that SpDef Dragonite as long as he still hold Choice Scarf Or just Will-o-wisp him to break the multi scale
Taking scarfed Rotom-W to Team 1 mean that Team 2 must get some mons such as Mega Venusaur, Chestnaught or the old Gastrodon who can easily be handled by Landorous and Ferrothorn
BTW, Sorry for my bad English
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Sorry for the nitpicking, but if Rotom takes an Extrasensory, it means Greninja is now a Psychic type and Volt Switch doesn't even come close to OHKOing him.
I'd Like to nominate AV conkeldurr
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 220 HP / 36 Special Defense
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
Evs to remove the 6.5% chance of life orbed thundurus to ohko with ice punch
Conkeldurr atm can take both Greninja and Dragonite 1v1 and win,Greninja is destroyed by a mach punch,Dragonite 3hko's it with dragon claw But conkelderr 2hkos back with knock off+ice punch-Conkeldurr can take on many meta threats such as Heatran,Greninja,Offensive Garchomp,Thundurus(252+ Atk Thundurus Bounce vs. 220 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 308-366 (75.8 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Bounce base power adjusted to 90 because i can't find fly in the calc),Bisharp,T-tar,Mind games with aegislash,Be a good status absorbs...The list goes on and on
As for the typing synergy , Ferrothorn takes flying and psychic attacks conkeldurr hates and conkeldurr get rids of heatran and friends for ferrothorn , Also conkeldurr can take on rotom-w an annoying threat in the metagame.
Alviss_Sky_TS yes
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You mean
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 220 HP / 36 Special Defense
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice punch
?
Gyarados@Gyaradosite
EV's: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Def
Trait: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
Alright so I decided to make a pretty risky nomination and that's Mega Gyarados. Before M.E.'ing, it resists everything the other two members of Team 1 are weak to (neutral to Ice though), where as electric attacks don't harm Lando or Ferro in the slightest and rock attacks aren't a problem either. Thanks to Mold Breaker, Dragonite gets OHKO'd 87.5% of the time and it's main counter, Rotom-W, gets owned by Earthquake. Gyarados can come in on Greninja pretty easily and intimidate him so that when/if he mega evolves, U-turn won't hurt too bad. Also, after a DD, Greninja gets outsped and OHKO's ~94% of the time AKA only on the lowest damage roll.
I decided Intimidate>Moxie because Moxie is something that works well when the opponent is unsure of the ability, where as Intimidate can be used based on the situation we are in at our pleasure. I also had a hard time deciding whether to use Ice Fang or Stone Edge, but passing up such high chances of OHKO'ing D-nite as opposed to needing SR down on the field to get the OHKO was too good to pass up.
Finally, the other problem I had was what item to use with Gyarados. M-Gyara gets a big boost in bulk and a new cool typing, but that makes us weak to fighting moves. That's when I realized, Gyarados doesn't necessarily HAVE TO mega evolve. It can just keep it's original typing if it wants since a base 125 attack is still going to hurt thanks to having DD even if it doesn't have a boosting item. I think this will give Team 2 even more problems, as if not having the last pick was bad enough, to deal with.
I fully understand picking a mega at the end of the first half of team building may seem early, but I feel like this would completely fuck up Team 2's time because of M.E. mind games.
I just thought of something interesting. It is not against the rules to pick two Pokemon with mega stones on the same team; it is just that only one Pokemon can actually mega evolve during battle. If Team 2 goes all out to counter Mega Gyarados and leaves itself vulnerable to another mega, then Team 1 can use its last pick on another mega and have that Pokemon be the one which actually mega evolves during battle. Picking Mega Gyarados now doesn't necessarily stop Team 1 from picking another mega later, and Gyarados is not entirely useless in its base form if Team 1 does pick another mega. I really like this nomination, and I would like to see how the future rounds play out because of this pick.
Gyarados@Gyaradosite
EV's: 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Def
Trait: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
Alright so I decided to make a pretty risky nomination and that's Mega Gyarados. Before M.E.'ing, it resists everything the other two members of Team 1 are weak to (neutral to Ice though), where as electric attacks don't harm Lando or Ferro in the slightest and rock attacks aren't a problem either. Thanks to Mold Breaker, Dragonite gets OHKO'd 87.5% of the time and it's main counter, Rotom-W, gets owned by Earthquake. Gyarados can come in on Greninja pretty easily and intimidate him so that when/if he mega evolves, U-turn won't hurt too bad. Also, after a DD, Greninja gets outsped and OHKO's ~94% of the time AKA only on the lowest damage roll.
I decided Intimidate>Moxie because Moxie is something that works well when the opponent is unsure of the ability, where as Intimidate can be used based on the situation we are in at our pleasure. I also had a hard time deciding whether to use Ice Fang or Stone Edge, but passing up such high chances of OHKO'ing D-nite as opposed to needing SR down on the field to get the OHKO was too good to pass up.
Finally, the other problem I had was what item to use with Gyarados. M-Gyara gets a big boost in bulk and a new cool typing, but that makes us weak to fighting moves. That's when I realized, Gyarados doesn't necessarily HAVE TO mega evolve. It can just keep it's original typing if it wants since a base 125 attack is still going to hurt thanks to having DD even if it doesn't have a boosting item. I think this will give Team 2 even more problems, as if not having the last pick was bad enough, to deal with.
I fully understand picking a mega at the end of the first half of team building may seem early, but I feel like this would completely fuck up Team 2's time because of M.E. mind games.
Sylveon Choice Specs
EVs: 248 HP, 252 SpA, 8 Spe
Trait:Pixilate
Modest Nature
~Hyper Voice
~Shadow Ball
~Psyshock
~Hidden Power Ground
Sylveon offers Team 1 an effective bulky attacker. The power of Sylveon's Hyper Voice is astounding, and with Choice Specs and Maximum investment, something is taking a hit. Sylveon is able to take any hit on Team 1 atm and easilly deal damage back with a massively strong Hyper Voice. Unfortunately, the rest of Sylveon's moveset is a tad barren, but it can make due. Shadow Ball offers good coverage against Psychics, and more importantly, Ghosts, as Gengar and Aegislash are two dangerous pokemon that could be chosen. Psyshock is met to tap Special Walls and Tanks, most notably Assualt Vest Conkelldurr. Hidden Power Ground allows Sylveon to hit steels, and gets great coverage with Hyper Voice.
Some advice to some of the people who post nominations: if you want your noms to look more viable, provide a sprite of the pokemon and a detailed description of why they should be the pick people vote for. A lot of the times when I dont see a sprite and/or a short-to-absent description I just look over it. The description doesn't have to be an essay, but just enough to explain the moves, EV's, and what it does to the other team.
Just because it is terrible in OU doesn't mean it is terrible in a project like this. A lot of extremely niche Pokemon do really well in this project, so don't be afraid to nominate something that isn't good for the meta as a whole, but completely dumps on the other team's nominations. This is a message for everyone nominating.
Will nominate later
Nominating Mega Heracross
Heracross @ Heracronite
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Ability: Moxie
Adamant Nature
-Close Combat
-Pin Missile
-Rock Blast
-Earthquake
Mega Heracross has the ability to absolutely punch holes through anything, and is probably the best choice to break Dragonite right now. Rock Blast breaks Multiscale then proceeds to OHKO, and Pin Missile OHKO's Greninja no matter the type. Close Combat also has the capability of 2hkoing Skarmory which otherwise would wall a fighting type. Earthquake deals with Aegislash. Heracross also lures a Flying type pick which he not only is able to deal with on the switch in through Rock Blast also has a very capable partner in Ferrothorn to help deal with them. Speaking of Ferrothorn, it also gives him a huge boost by spreading paralysis to slow down other mons which could normally outspeed and OHKO him (see: most psychic types). Considering how hard it is to truly counter Mega Heracross, I think he makes a great edition to team 1 considering how this project works.
Heracross @ Heracronite
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Ability: Moxie
Adamant Nature
-Close Combat
-Pin Missile
-Rock Blast
-Earthquake
Mega Heracross has the ability to absolutely punch holes through anything, and is probably the best choice to break Dragonite right now. Rock Blast breaks Multiscale then proceeds to OHKO, and Pin Missile OHKO's Greninja no matter the type. Close Combat also has the capability of 2hkoing Skarmory which otherwise would wall a fighting type. Earthquake deals with Aegislash. Heracross also lures a Flying type pick which he not only is able to deal with on the switch in through Rock Blast also has a very capable partner in Ferrothorn to help deal with them. Speaking of Ferrothorn, it also gives him a huge boost by spreading paralysis to slow down other mons which could normally outspeed and OHKO him (see: most psychic types). Considering how hard it is to truly counter Mega Heracross, I think he makes a great edition to team 1 considering how this project works.
Outspeeds neutral invested base 80s before evolving and base 70s after evolving
Mostly for Bisharp
You could run 148 speed EVs instead to outpace max Azumarill (and the creeping defensive Rotom) if it's of any concern.
My personal opinion is that it's less trouble to leave Azumarill and Rotom to Ferrothorn first. Outspeeding Bisharp is more important than investing in more bulk.
Okay, recapping current teams for myself:
Team 1: U-turn Landorus / Thunder Wave Ferrothorn
Team 2: Bulky Dragonite / U-turn Greninja
So, in my opinion Team 1 has the advantage. U-turn Landorus and U-turn Greninja basically fulfill the same roles here, hitting hard while U-turning out of their potential counters, keeping the advantage and (hopefully) wearing them down. The difference between Team 1 and Team 2 though, is that Landorus does a much better job at wearing down, because of several reasons. 1) Landorus doesn't take damage from Life Orb if it is using a regular attack that isn't U-turn. Not that big of a deal in itself, but it is when combined with the fact that: 2) Ferrothorn has Iron Barbs. This, combined with the former point makes that Greninja probably dies a lot faster. 3) Ferrothorn has Thunder Wave, Knock Off and Leech Seed. With these three moves, Ferrothorn really reduces the amount of Pokémon that can switch in on Ferrothorn not caring about anything. Compared to Dragonite, while it has some decently powerful moves and coverage, it's noticably easier to switch in on. 4) Minor, but Dragonite's Multiscale is broken when it switches in on Stealth Rock.
Anyways, I really want to nominate Mega Abomasnow right now. It may be a tad on the early side for picking a Mega, but on the other hand there are only three more Pokémon left, and you want to save Stealth Rock for late as well, considering the matchups right now. A hazard remove would also be useful, though it isn't really needed for Team 1 as much as Team 2 needs it. I think now is the earliest possible time to nominate a Mega and have it work.
Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
I'm doing it, why not. I just like the idea of Mega Abomasnow right now, though I might scratch this later if I come up with something better (cause of the max 1 nomination rule). Anyways, why I like this is for one, it adds to the residual damage with Snow Warning. Second, it also has a favorable matchup vs both Dragonite and Greninja. About the residual damage, I think this is pretty damn useful as it stops Dragonite from getting its Multiscale back with just Leftovers, forcing it to Roost if it wants full health. It also lets Landorus 2HKO Dragonite with Psychic after Stealth Rock I believe, because it ignores the Leftovers recover (this is big imo). As for Greninja, the residual damage of hail adding onto Life Orb, Iron Barbs and Stealth Rock would make Greninja in a couple of turns, removing Team 2's most notable threat. As for individual matchups; Blizzard has a chance of OHKOing Dragonite through Multiscale. This means if it takes even 1 HP of damage, it is guaranteed. Oh and Dragon Claw always does less than 40%. As for Greninja, U-turn is quite annoying. However, it can switch in on Greninja's most threatening move relatively easily. It also takes less than 60% from any attack and OHKOes with Giga Drain, recovering the damage.
Team 1: U-turn Landorus / Thunder Wave Ferrothorn
Team 2: Bulky Dragonite / U-turn Greninja
So, in my opinion Team 1 has the advantage. U-turn Landorus and U-turn Greninja basically fulfill the same roles here, hitting hard while U-turning out of their potential counters, keeping the advantage and (hopefully) wearing them down. The difference between Team 1 and Team 2 though, is that Landorus does a much better job at wearing down, because of several reasons. 1) Landorus doesn't take damage from Life Orb if it is using a regular attack that isn't U-turn. Not that big of a deal in itself, but it is when combined with the fact that: 2) Ferrothorn has Iron Barbs. This, combined with the former point makes that Greninja probably dies a lot faster. 3) Ferrothorn has Thunder Wave, Knock Off and Leech Seed. With these three moves, Ferrothorn really reduces the amount of Pokémon that can switch in on Ferrothorn not caring about anything. Compared to Dragonite, while it has some decently powerful moves and coverage, it's noticably easier to switch in on. 4) Minor, but Dragonite's Multiscale is broken when it switches in on Stealth Rock.
Anyways, I really want to nominate Mega Abomasnow right now. It may be a tad on the early side for picking a Mega, but on the other hand there are only three more Pokémon left, and you want to save Stealth Rock for late as well, considering the matchups right now. A hazard remove would also be useful, though it isn't really needed for Team 1 as much as Team 2 needs it. I think now is the earliest possible time to nominate a Mega and have it work.
Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
I'm doing it, why not. I just like the idea of Mega Abomasnow right now, though I might scratch this later if I come up with something better (cause of the max 1 nomination rule). Anyways, why I like this is for one, it adds to the residual damage with Snow Warning. Second, it also has a favorable matchup vs both Dragonite and Greninja. About the residual damage, I think this is pretty damn useful as it stops Dragonite from getting its Multiscale back with just Leftovers, forcing it to Roost if it wants full health. It also lets Landorus 2HKO Dragonite with Psychic after Stealth Rock I believe, because it ignores the Leftovers recover (this is big imo). As for Greninja, the residual damage of hail adding onto Life Orb, Iron Barbs and Stealth Rock would make Greninja in a couple of turns, removing Team 2's most notable threat. As for individual matchups; Blizzard has a chance of OHKOing Dragonite through Multiscale. This means if it takes even 1 HP of damage, it is guaranteed. Oh and Dragon Claw always does less than 40%. As for Greninja, U-turn is quite annoying. However, it can switch in on Greninja's most threatening move relatively easily. It also takes less than 60% from any attack and OHKOes with Giga Drain, recovering the damage.
- Status