Countering Mienshao and Scrafty in UU

[JayHankEdLyon]

The most obvious counter is Crobat. Not only does he pack a mean Brave Bird, but he resists the hell out of fighting attacks, can't be flinched by Mienshao's Fake Out (and resists his U-turns), and shrugs off Scrafty's Ice Punch unless it's already gotten a few boosts in.

This bothers me because I love Crobat and don't want to see counters pop up but that's life.

Bulky waters not named Slowbro can probably do well, and even Bro handles himself with grace against Mienshao until he U-turns the hell out. Qwilfish is particularly good at switching in as it resists Fighting and U-Turn and Intimidates for good measure. Machamp is burly enough to handle them, while Heracross resists common attacks and packs a wallop.

Finally, there's Physical Zapdos, who really doesn't mind even Stone Edge as far as I can tell.

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With that out on the table, how have you guys been faring against the changes? I've got no problems as of yet thanks to Crobat, but a Mienshao Stone Edge on the switch would hurt pretty bad.

 

[destinyunknown]

All bulky waters are 2HKOed by LO Hi Jump Kick except for... Slowbro and Qwilfish, that is, not the other way around as you mentioned. Biggest problem I see with ''countering'' Mienshao is that it can just U-turn out of his counters (and there aren't many) while pokemon like Zapdos or Raikou can take advantage of the pokemon that switch on Mienshao.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

The bulky waters were more about Scrafty than Mienshao, probably should've clarified that (won't edit now because it'd make your post look confusing to newcomers.) They can come in on Scrafty, not take too much damage and phaze him out to prevent him from setting up.

I totally forgot to mention ghosts for Mienshao as well. I mean yeah, they can switch into Hi Jump Kick, can't be Faked Out and resist U-Turn. Barring Chandelure switching in on Stone Edge they seem like a pretty tight block.

(I think my problem is I lumped the two together even though obviously different pokemon can take care of them individually.)

 

[SJCrew]

My concern with Machamp is that he takes HJKs from Scrafty like a girl. Not only can he not switch into a raw HJK, but +1 Leftovers does 77.3% - 91.4%. won't even bother calcing Life Orb. Phys Def Zapdos very well does mind HJK/anything -> Stone Edge, not to mention Stone Edge itself.

Scarf Heracross will be the definitive check for these two. Scrafty can't do anything, Mienshao can only let him switch in once with HJK, but he'll take those U-turns and HP Ice all day, or just switch in during a pinch. I'm also really liking Gurrdurr and Hariyama in this new iteration of UU, so I'm hoping people are willing to consider using them as well. Aside from Crobat, other bulky Poison-types ruin Mienshao's day too, like Weezing and our fallen Nidoqueen.

 

[Forsety]

Crobat, Qwilfish, Nidoqueen, Weezing, Heracross, Amoonguss (for the short time he doesn't get promoted I suppose), Sableye, Cofagrigus strike me as the potential candidates for Scrafty/Mienshao counters and checks.

However I suspect some being shaky at best since in this environment Mienshao can just as easily run a Bulk Up/BP set now to catch out some of these guys and be one of the best offensive BP'ers in the tier. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't too long before people start crying afoul of one or the other.

I'm also really liking Gurrdurr and Hariyama in this new iteration of UU, so I'm hoping people are willing to consider using them as well.

I'd like to give a shout out to Throh too, he may not hit quite as hard due to the lack of Sheer Force but has some really workable defenses, has STAB Circle Throw to his name and now even gains RestTalk, elemental punches and Knock Off as options.

 

[SJCrew]

Forgot about Throh. I really want to believe he can be good, but his niche is small compared to other Fighting types. Like, really small. Mew leaving UU was probably the best thing for him, since even a 100 base Attack +1 Payback wasn't getting rid of that Psychic cat thing.

 

[PK Gaming]

I don't think we'll have a problem countering Mienshao in UU. On top of the solid checks / counters Forsety listed already, Mienshao is very frail. It pretty can't switch into anything ever, and it's never getting passed Slowbro even if you disregard Scalds burn chance (outside of a BP set I doubt will catch on). Scarfers will always cripple / kill it with their STAB moves, and priority does a ton too. Regen increases its survivability from eating passive damage and recoil though, so a well played Mienshao will stick around a for a while... but man those defenses mean she really can't take a stray hit at all.

Scrafty's probably going to be a lot harder to straight up counter, but it's weighed down by its abysmal starting speed and it typically needs a DD to get going (and its STILL outsped by 115+ pokemon at +1 with a jolly nature, though adamant DD just barely outspeeds base 100 pokemon). Don't get me wrong, DD isn't the only Scrafty can run but its by far going to be its best one (PREDICTION!). Also being Heracross bait isn't a good thing.

 

[kokoloko]

It doesn't even outspeed base 100s at +1 with Adamant, actually.

Anyway, I've opened the new megathread, so feel free to move this discussion there.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Not sure how to close this topic (or if I'm even capable of doing so) so feel free to shut 'er down if the main topic's open.

 

[Scubasteve23]

Mienshao should be easier to counter than Scrafty.