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Pokémon Crawdaunt
- Thread starter escarlata
- Start date
- Status
I feel like this thread's become pretty redundant, so I'll make my point, and leave it in y'all's capable hands cuz y'all obviously have a more invested interest than I do.
Your calcs of +2 attacks aren't realistic because anytime Crawdaunt doesn't OHKO before getting attacked, it'll take HUGE damage (I haven't found an OU pokemon that can't 2HKO this guy, but then again I didn't bother checking them alll). Without a lot of team support (and lets be honest, even a pikachu could make it in OU with team support and a lot of luck), the life orb set just won't have much of an effect in OU. Even if you did get a kill, its too easily revenge killed by faster priority users (resistances to aqua jet and bullet punch taken into account) or choice U-turn/Volt Switches (you won't outspeed them to get the knock off hit, and there's several that can survive an aqua jet, so that won't work either). Between damage you'll almost certainly take setting up, entry hazards, life orb recoil, revenge killers, and who knows what else OU can throw at you, I don't see how a life orb set could survive.
I've already conceded that a choice band set could work, but not enough to get it an OU ranking. The immediate power of (effectively 120 base power) aqua jet will be great for revenge killing, but still leaves no answer for its down right terrible defenses. It'll die too easily for it really ever to warrant an OU ranking imo.
Sorry if I've offended anyone, I was just pointing out some things that had to be considered, and it didn't look like anyone else was going to. I wish y'all the best!
Your calcs of +2 attacks aren't realistic because anytime Crawdaunt doesn't OHKO before getting attacked, it'll take HUGE damage (I haven't found an OU pokemon that can't 2HKO this guy, but then again I didn't bother checking them alll). Without a lot of team support (and lets be honest, even a pikachu could make it in OU with team support and a lot of luck), the life orb set just won't have much of an effect in OU. Even if you did get a kill, its too easily revenge killed by faster priority users (resistances to aqua jet and bullet punch taken into account) or choice U-turn/Volt Switches (you won't outspeed them to get the knock off hit, and there's several that can survive an aqua jet, so that won't work either). Between damage you'll almost certainly take setting up, entry hazards, life orb recoil, revenge killers, and who knows what else OU can throw at you, I don't see how a life orb set could survive.
I've already conceded that a choice band set could work, but not enough to get it an OU ranking. The immediate power of (effectively 120 base power) aqua jet will be great for revenge killing, but still leaves no answer for its down right terrible defenses. It'll die too easily for it really ever to warrant an OU ranking imo.
Sorry if I've offended anyone, I was just pointing out some things that had to be considered, and it didn't look like anyone else was going to. I wish y'all the best!
^ Someone didn't read/do his maths properly.
First of all I'm not trying to proof anything here, or arguing anything, but just providing some food for thought on the other side, to facilitate a less baseless discussion.
Fact is, anything in current OU that is faster than Crawdaunt and does not resist Aqua Jet gets OHKO-ed at +2 LO, and if it doesn't neither would Azumarill's +6 Aqua Jet, and unlike Belly-Azu, SD Crawdaunt can get past more stuff. Another fact is that Crawdaunt does not need a lot of team support, just passing a +2 speed passing can bring you far. Crawdaunt physical bulk, despite being terrible, is still completely usable, being bulkier than Toxicroak, Lucario, Breloom, Tentacruel, Starmie and the likes, and they are still switching into resisted hits with no problem. Above all, it is definitely easier to survive a Crawdaunt at full health as compared to surviving with Azumarill at half health, so it is not much harder to get a SD as a Azumarill can get up a Belly Drum. Plus, running a LO doesn't necessarily mean you have to set up, pretty much like how Scizor doesn't have to get up a SD, but if the situation allows, it is always welcomed. With 164 HP investment (92 Spd allows you to outrun CB Scizor), Crawdaunt can actually take a LO Earthquake from Mamoswine, which is pretty much the strongest unboosted physical attack in the tier.
First of all I'm not trying to proof anything here, or arguing anything, but just providing some food for thought on the other side, to facilitate a less baseless discussion.
Fact is, anything in current OU that is faster than Crawdaunt and does not resist Aqua Jet gets OHKO-ed at +2 LO, and if it doesn't neither would Azumarill's +6 Aqua Jet, and unlike Belly-Azu, SD Crawdaunt can get past more stuff. Another fact is that Crawdaunt does not need a lot of team support, just passing a +2 speed passing can bring you far. Crawdaunt physical bulk, despite being terrible, is still completely usable, being bulkier than Toxicroak, Lucario, Breloom, Tentacruel, Starmie and the likes, and they are still switching into resisted hits with no problem. Above all, it is definitely easier to survive a Crawdaunt at full health as compared to surviving with Azumarill at half health, so it is not much harder to get a SD as a Azumarill can get up a Belly Drum. Plus, running a LO doesn't necessarily mean you have to set up, pretty much like how Scizor doesn't have to get up a SD, but if the situation allows, it is always welcomed. With 164 HP investment (92 Spd allows you to outrun CB Scizor), Crawdaunt can actually take a LO Earthquake from Mamoswine, which is pretty much the strongest unboosted physical attack in the tier.
I've been running two sets for crawdaunt, the choice band set and a swords dance set. First of all I must say that comparing crawdaunt to Gyarados is pointless, the only similar thing about them is that they are physically attacking water types. If you want to compare crawdaunt to a physically attacking water type, compare it with azumarill.
The differences between crawdaunt and azumarill are quite simple: azumarill is slightly bulkier and has a better defensive typing while crawdaunt is slightly stronger and has a better offensive movepool. With adaptability, crawdaunt's aqua jet slightly out damages azumarill's aqua jet, I don't have the calcs for it but you can take my word for it. Secondly, with access to crabhammer, now a 100bp move, it is much more powerful than the 80bp waterfall, especially when factoring in adaptability. And then there's knock off, which also got a buff, it's now a 65bp dark type move. however if the opponent is holding an item, it goes up to 97bp while removing their item. In the course of two turns it still out damages crunch because 97+65=162 and 80+80=160, with the added utility of removing their item. And while crunch may out damage knock off after 3 turns, like someone said earlier crawdaunt is not fast enough or bulky enough to attack a foe 3 times so knock off should always be used over crunch. The other buff knock off got is that dark type attacks are no longer resisted by steel so it can nail steel types that would had walled crawdaunt. With adaptability and knock off's high base power, it easily out damages azumarill's 80bp play rough while having perfect accuracy. Finally, in the last slot on a choice band set, azumarill and crawdaunt both have superpower. Azumarill's superpower does out damage crawdaunt's because adaptability isn't applied. But, on a set up set, azumarill would use belly drum while crawdaunt has swords dance. Even though belly drum gives more of a boost, I think we can agree that swords dance is better because it doesn't cut half your health to set up and still gives a significant boost anyways. Even though crawdaunt isn't as bulky as azumarill, with a decent defense stat and 252hp evs, it's not as hard as everyone thinks to set up swords dance, and once it is set up aqua jet goes ridiculous. And, on a set up set, I would say crawdaunt can be considered bulkier than azumarill just because azumarill loses so much health. Anyways, here are the sets I've been using:
Crawdaunt @ Mystic Water
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Superpower
I've been using mystic water over life orb on the set up set, just because aqua jet is the primary move for crawdaunt. Also, because I've been running crawdaunt with damp rock Politoed, crabhammer would be better for breaking through walls like skarmory and forretress over knock off despite crabhammer's 90 accuracy. Speaking of it's 90% accuracy waterfall can be used over crabhammer, but when you factor in adaptability, the difference in base power between the the two moves is 40, not including your mystic water/life orb boost and in my case rain too. With that included crabhammer is significantly more powerful than waterfall.
In conclusion, as much as I like crawdaunt, I feel azumarill could pull off the choice band set better in most cases just because it could switch into more things with it's bulk and resistances allowing it to revenge kill better. However, crawdaunt's choice band set is certainly more powerful than azumarill's so if your looking for a choice band sweeper crawdaunt might be your best option. As for the set up set, I think crawdaunt can do that much better. Belly drum is an unreliable, risky move, while swords dance is a much safer, almost as rewarding option. Besides that, crawdaunt can abuse it's better movepool much more than it's choice band set (ability to switch moves) because it can break through walls with knock off (to remove leftovers/assault vest) + crabhammer, or just two crabhammer's. It can also take down faster threats with a powerful aqua jet, meaning it can take on a multitude of threats without having to switch out and lose momentum and/or its swords dance boost.
Also, crawdaunt gets dragon dance, which may be viable in uu, but as for ou I think you're better off with swords dance or choice band.
The differences between crawdaunt and azumarill are quite simple: azumarill is slightly bulkier and has a better defensive typing while crawdaunt is slightly stronger and has a better offensive movepool. With adaptability, crawdaunt's aqua jet slightly out damages azumarill's aqua jet, I don't have the calcs for it but you can take my word for it. Secondly, with access to crabhammer, now a 100bp move, it is much more powerful than the 80bp waterfall, especially when factoring in adaptability. And then there's knock off, which also got a buff, it's now a 65bp dark type move. however if the opponent is holding an item, it goes up to 97bp while removing their item. In the course of two turns it still out damages crunch because 97+65=162 and 80+80=160, with the added utility of removing their item. And while crunch may out damage knock off after 3 turns, like someone said earlier crawdaunt is not fast enough or bulky enough to attack a foe 3 times so knock off should always be used over crunch. The other buff knock off got is that dark type attacks are no longer resisted by steel so it can nail steel types that would had walled crawdaunt. With adaptability and knock off's high base power, it easily out damages azumarill's 80bp play rough while having perfect accuracy. Finally, in the last slot on a choice band set, azumarill and crawdaunt both have superpower. Azumarill's superpower does out damage crawdaunt's because adaptability isn't applied. But, on a set up set, azumarill would use belly drum while crawdaunt has swords dance. Even though belly drum gives more of a boost, I think we can agree that swords dance is better because it doesn't cut half your health to set up and still gives a significant boost anyways. Even though crawdaunt isn't as bulky as azumarill, with a decent defense stat and 252hp evs, it's not as hard as everyone thinks to set up swords dance, and once it is set up aqua jet goes ridiculous. And, on a set up set, I would say crawdaunt can be considered bulkier than azumarill just because azumarill loses so much health. Anyways, here are the sets I've been using:
Crawdaunt @ Mystic Water
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Superpower
I've been using mystic water over life orb on the set up set, just because aqua jet is the primary move for crawdaunt. Also, because I've been running crawdaunt with damp rock Politoed, crabhammer would be better for breaking through walls like skarmory and forretress over knock off despite crabhammer's 90 accuracy. Speaking of it's 90% accuracy waterfall can be used over crabhammer, but when you factor in adaptability, the difference in base power between the the two moves is 40, not including your mystic water/life orb boost and in my case rain too. With that included crabhammer is significantly more powerful than waterfall.
In conclusion, as much as I like crawdaunt, I feel azumarill could pull off the choice band set better in most cases just because it could switch into more things with it's bulk and resistances allowing it to revenge kill better. However, crawdaunt's choice band set is certainly more powerful than azumarill's so if your looking for a choice band sweeper crawdaunt might be your best option. As for the set up set, I think crawdaunt can do that much better. Belly drum is an unreliable, risky move, while swords dance is a much safer, almost as rewarding option. Besides that, crawdaunt can abuse it's better movepool much more than it's choice band set (ability to switch moves) because it can break through walls with knock off (to remove leftovers/assault vest) + crabhammer, or just two crabhammer's. It can also take down faster threats with a powerful aqua jet, meaning it can take on a multitude of threats without having to switch out and lose momentum and/or its swords dance boost.
Also, crawdaunt gets dragon dance, which may be viable in uu, but as for ou I think you're better off with swords dance or choice band.
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Really nice OP escarlata, and you make good points in general about his performance in OU. I am really pumped up to using him, his CB set seems absoultey monstrous.
Double Edge is not needed at all on Crawdaunt though. Crunch should be the move on the last slot with Superpower slashed after it (to deal with Mega Gyarados) and Crabhammer should be alone in the 3rd slot. Crunch is good for MEvos that resist Water moves (Mega Blastoise, Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Venusaur), which would otherwsie either counter your or at least check you. Also, the CB set should use max Speed EVs to outspeed 0 Spe Rotom-W, 0 Spe Mega Blastoise, and 0 Spe Mega Venusaur, to OHKO the first and 2HKO the other two with Knock Off and Crunch respectively.
Double Edge is not needed at all on Crawdaunt though. Crunch should be the move on the last slot with Superpower slashed after it (to deal with Mega Gyarados) and Crabhammer should be alone in the 3rd slot. Crunch is good for MEvos that resist Water moves (Mega Blastoise, Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Venusaur), which would otherwsie either counter your or at least check you. Also, the CB set should use max Speed EVs to outspeed 0 Spe Rotom-W, 0 Spe Mega Blastoise, and 0 Spe Mega Venusaur, to OHKO the first and 2HKO the other two with Knock Off and Crunch respectively.
With regards to LO vs Mystic Water, I still think LO should be preferred because it allows Knock Off to OHKO Ferrothorn at +2, which would otherwise put an end to the sweep. I also think at least 92 Spd should be run, so allow outspeeding of Scizor and Jellicent because they are very dangerous threats to Crawdaunt.
Edited in the OP. I primarily put Double Edge to deal with Azumarill switch-ins, until I really ran into one and realise it still doesn't get the OHKO, so I removed it from mention.
Crunch 2HKO's Mega Venusaur and Mega Blastoise, which Knock Off cannot do because you cannot knock off mega stones
Hmm, I guess that's fair enough, I wasn't really thinking about particular Mega threats. Shame Mega Stones don't work like Sticky Hold.
I've been using a CB Crawdaunt team a lot this gen and I love it. I think all that really needs saying is that, opposing Megas aside, so long as you can click Knock Off without fear of dying that turn (which is not hard once you've learned what sorts of hits it can take and what it can't), Crawdaunt WILL make its mark, whether in the form of an OHKO or simply removing a much relied upon item. Not even Ferrothorn can come in on it safely, with a chance to be 2HKOed without even having hazards up (don't know what the chance is, I'm speaking from experience rather than calcs). Pretty much the only things that shouldn't be scared to death of a Knock Off are bulky/resistant Megas (and Unburden Hawlucha lol), and none of those bar Venusaur and pre-Mega'd Aggron are going to like a Crabhammer on the switch.
Nothing else has this kind of power and crippling ability combined in one move, not even CB Machamp. Because of that, I think this is very usable in OU. It may be considered a niche, but it's a damn good one.
Oh yeah, and it gets great priority, good STAB coverage and Switcheroo as well. Almost forgot about those.
I'm totally making a team with this and CB Machamp.
Nothing else has this kind of power and crippling ability combined in one move, not even CB Machamp. Because of that, I think this is very usable in OU. It may be considered a niche, but it's a damn good one.
Oh yeah, and it gets great priority, good STAB coverage and Switcheroo as well. Almost forgot about those.
I'm totally making a team with this and CB Machamp.
Crawdaunt i think can pull UU, with at the least OU usage. Also, it doesn't take up a mega slot, making it a replacement for M-dos if you already have a mega on your team, but want coverage. Thats the reason main reason why pokemon like Clawitzer will ever see the light of day. Adaptablity makes crawdaunt hit like a truck, and scoliopede can now speedboost pass w/ ease. Actually, scoliopede can pass +3 speed if you want, turning Crawdaunt into a Speedy doomsday weapon as long as the opponent isn't packing a mach punch user.
Also: Mods, please stop locking threads with old pokemon that got new toys. Lock the redundant threads, threads like this there are valuable things to discuss and it would be swallowed up in Old mons discussion. Threads discussing pokemon that now have the opportunity to move up a tier should be left alone, close the threads like salamence, not this one.
Also: Mods, please stop locking threads with old pokemon that got new toys. Lock the redundant threads, threads like this there are valuable things to discuss and it would be swallowed up in Old mons discussion. Threads discussing pokemon that now have the opportunity to move up a tier should be left alone, close the threads like salamence, not this one.
im not going to say crawdaunt cant use life orb but it shouldn't because it is frail. ive used a scarfed crawdaunt it reaches 313 speed which is not fast imo it does decently ok which is bad lol i also tampered with a bulky sub set.
Crawdaunt Mystic Water/leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Nature: Adamant
164Hp / 252Atk / 96Spd
Moveset
-Crabhammer
-Aqua Jet
-Knock Off
-Substitute/Crunch/Superpower
im sure the has been speculation on substitute also thought of a pinch berry to increase its speed along with dragon dance but never tested it but i will see what i come up with soon. otherwise that base 55 speed is going to drag crawdaunt forever. could use a baton pass too but idk about all of this.
Crawdaunt Mystic Water/leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Nature: Adamant
164Hp / 252Atk / 96Spd
Moveset
-Crabhammer
-Aqua Jet
-Knock Off
-Substitute/Crunch/Superpower
im sure the has been speculation on substitute also thought of a pinch berry to increase its speed along with dragon dance but never tested it but i will see what i come up with soon. otherwise that base 55 speed is going to drag crawdaunt forever. could use a baton pass too but idk about all of this.
Full investment allows it to defeat min speed Rotom-W, which is literally everywhere, and also outspeeding min speed Mega-Venu and Mega-Blastoise. However, for my own personal set, I ran 92 Spd, which is enough to outrun 8 Spd Scizor, which gives it actually rather respectable bulk, being able to take upwards to Life Orb Mamoswine's EQ, which arguably the most powerful physical Attack in OU.
Life Orb is primarily used for it allowing Crawdaunt to OHKO standard Ferrothorn after 1 SD, which other boosting items cannot claim so it is mro eor a high risk high reward item.
The thing about Scarf is that most of the things in the speed tier between Scarfed and unscarfed variants still take massive damage from Banded Aqua Jet, and most are outright OHKO-ed with some prior damage. Scarfed variant can OHKO that Banded cannot include Gliscor without a Sub up, and Heatran, which cannot do anything in return, so Scarf is generally not worth it.
I'm rather dubious about a Sub set, I would rather just hit the switch-in with a Knock Off. It's not like it can outspeed anything to Sub and scout anyway. Pinch Berry isn't worth it after some testing. With +2 Atk +1 Spd, it still get outsped by a lot of things, and with +1 Atk +2 Spd, it loses too many crucial kills to get a sweep as well (not to mention, then you are at 25% hp).
Wouldn't Knock Off + Crunch on the same set be redundant? I honestly prefer Superpower to hit better coverage, or at least X-Scizorr to hit grass types super effectively. I mean Knock Off reaches 97 BP if the opponent is holding an item (which is almost every times) which is better than Crunch.
Also back in Gen V, I tried Scarfed Adaptability and it was amazing, I know you are gonna say I'm stupid, but scarf took sooooo many people off guard.
Also back in Gen V, I tried Scarfed Adaptability and it was amazing, I know you are gonna say I'm stupid, but scarf took sooooo many people off guard.
Crawdaunt can 2HKO the entire game minus Poliwrath, Whimsicott, Hydreigon, Mega-Gyara, Azumarill and Chesnaught with either STAB.
The only thing X-Scissor hits harder than either Adaptability STAB is Malamar and Whimsicott, and Superpower is barely more powerful than Crabhammer even when Super Effective. The only relevant kill you can get with Superpower that you cannot with Crabhammer/Knock Off is Hydreigon who OHKO's you first (Gyara has Intimidate, or can be regular Gyara to take the Superpower). Crunch is generally more useful to nab a 2HKO on Mega-Venusaur and Mega-Blastoise on the switch, and Gyarados with Gyaradosite if it chooses not to Mega-Evo on its first turn.
Again, Scarfed Adaptability Crabhammer doesn't seem that appealing to me imo because you lose a lot of power by not having a boosting item:
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 124-148 (36.3 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 206-244 (60.4 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 208-246 (59 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 140-166 (39.7 - 47.1%)
252 Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (65 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 94-112 (26.7 - 31.8%)
Without a Choice Band, you fail to OHKO many things even with Crabhammer.
Then when you consider the second case, you can get the 2HKO as long as the 1st hit is above 60%, so even a neutral natured CB Knock Off can KO the switching Ferrothorn. On the other hand, Ferrothorn can walk all over Scarf Crawdaunt since it cannot even guarantee a 3HKO while it is OHKOed in response. Ferrothorn alone is almost enough reason to not use Scarf. 313 Speed is really slow considering it does not even outspeed unscarfed Kyurem-B. Plus, you miss the ability to spam Knock Off because you miss out every single 2HKO on the OP, so I doubt its viability.
The difference between 100/80/80 and 63/85/55 isn't "slightly" bulkier. Crawdaunt is very frail while Azumarril isnt, and crawdaunt outdamages azumarril only on its Water STABs(Not sure about dark Stabs, but i do know that it mainly uses its Stabs due to them being nearly unresited) that small boost in damage isn't worth the extreme loss in bulk. Crawdaunt won't have fun it what is likely going to be a priority controlled OU.
And someone said something about them equally being viable but I can't find the post, so i would like to say that crawdaunt is easily a tier below Azumarril, maybe on par with Diggersby.
obviously its still slow at 313 which is why i said its okay. the point of crawdaunt is that it is frail ive used this pokemon in OU for awhile and getting and additional turn with crawdaunt is very good. a banded crawdaunt is decent but as stated it doesnt last long at all sure you can hit and run but eventually you will find yourself in the corner because of entry hazards along with you locking yourself into 1 attack which cause many switch opportunities with rain being lowered to 5turns rain is the reason why Crawdaunt was primarily used in general in OU. the choice band set is the common choice but now the call for new sets are in order to analyze its effectiveness as a secondary measure next to choice band crawdaunt
252+ Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 226-268 (66.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 160-189 (46.9 - 55.4%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 220-260 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vs.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 178-211 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 90-108 (26.3 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Vs.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 81-96 (23.7 - 28.1%) -- 88.8% chance to 4HKO
I guess crawdaunt isn't "slightly" more powerful either, at least with knock off and crabhammer. Besides, my main point of my other post was to say that the swords dance set is viable and isn't something belly drum azumarill outclasses.
The power difference on all of those almost will never matter unless the opponent has lefties. And Crawdaunt is paper thin compared to Azumarril, as long as the oppennet has a respectable attacking stat that crawdaunt isnt getting more than 1 faint; azumarril has far superior bulk so i can possibly stay in longer getting more KOs and doing more damage. And about the SD Crawdaunt not being outclassed by BD azumarril, Sitrus Berry (what majority of the people i've faced used) Belly Drum Azumarril after boosting basically gives azumarril around the same HP as full HP crawdaunt (assuming both are running max HP evs), better defences, and +6 attack while SD Crawdaunt only has +2 and bad defences (crawdaunt only has 10 more points in defence with 0 investment so that 5 base stat defence it has over it is miniscule)to show for it. And a worse typing.
The power difference matters because 20% is a pretty damn big deal- it's the difference between an OHKO and a 2HKO on a lot of pokemon, and a 2HKO and 3HKO on more bulky ones. And a lot of stuff between- battles are never really clean games- pokemon get worn down by minor attacks and rock damage.
Plus, knock off is just great. Stab Knockoff? Fantastic.
Plus, knock off is just great. Stab Knockoff? Fantastic.
On the examples he used (which is 100 in every stat) you have 100 in every stat on a pokemon that resits nothing. From what i can think of off the top of my head anything bulkier than that will be irrealivant to that as they will almost always require the same amount of uses for a move to KO. And anything weaker either be 2HKOd/OHKOd by both or can OHKO Crawdaunt back due to its poor defensive typing and poorish typing and poor defences. There are a few that can be OHKOd by crawdaunt through aqua jet but can't be OHKOd by azumarrils aqua jet, but everything that it doesnt immeaditaly OHKO will either kill or chunk out crawdaunt, while azumarril can just opt for a move that can OHKO anyway while taking not chunk/dead damage due to it nostly being outsped. The point is that azumarril outclasses crawdaunt in almost every role due to its far better bulk. Now lets stop with this pointless circlejerk and get back to finding what crawdaunt can do to differatiate itself from others without getting outclassed.
The reason why I actually don't like to use Crawdaunt is because you are not using to the 2 new things it got this gen, namely Aqua Jet and a massively spammable Knock Off. Due to Crawdaunt's frail nature, if it cannot get a 2HKO/OHKO desired, it is likely to die. Choice Scarf Crabhammer from 313 Speed does not allow it to beat what Choice Band Aqua Jet cannot beat with the exception of defensive Heatran and Gliscor, which each has other ways around it anyway. I don't know if I might sound like I'm generalizing, but Choice Scarf never even made it to even the OO sections for the Gen V, for any tier, so I'm rather dubious that it can be effective.
There are 2 notable advantages that Crawdaunt has over Azumarill that does not leave it completely outclassed, which redefines their role, so they are not in direct competition.
Crawdaunt has something to punish the opponent whether or not he switches
Whether or not Azumarill gets a kill is reliant a lot on prediction. Crawdaunt is able to ease prediction because Knock Off is extremely punishing to switch into, taking massive damage as well as the loss of and item.
Crawdaunt is not hard walled by Ferrothorn on a sweeping set, and does not have to rely on Superpower on a Choiced set.
all in all, imo Crawdaunt is more of a wallbreaker, while Azumarill is more of a revenge killer.
Don't say Azumarill is better outright and then try to drop the argument, that's the worst.
Anyway, lets see what that 20% does.
Aegislash is big, right?
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 238-282 (73.4 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 210-247 (64.8 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
10% difference. With two layers of hazards, Aegislash might get OHKO'd. Still, not a huge deal, 2 layers isn't big. Knockoff however definitely kills Aegislash. So against Aegislash, Crawdaunt probably wins out.
Rotom Wash...
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 160-189 (52.6 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
There's difference A- a 2hko on Rotom Wash. Granted, neighter is going to stay in on Rotom wash, but the potential to kill a half off offensive rotom is nice. Of course, their secondary STABs are 2HKOs as well.
Ferrothorn...
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 135-159 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- 27.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not great either way, but the difference is clear. At least Crawdaunt can do a 2hKO with knockoff, though.
Talonflame gets Aqua jet Calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 360-428 (100 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 318-374 (88.3 - 103.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Hey, that's important! So long as people are still running max hp talonflame.
MegaKang
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 340-400 (82.1 - 96.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 268-316 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Also significant, although who switches Kang into an attacker, really
TTar gets screwed on the switch, but if it's just Aqua Jets-
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 252-300 (73.9 - 87.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 218-260 (63.9 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Crawdaunt does slightly better against an offensive variant
Klefki
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Klefki: 368-434 (115 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Klefki: 258-304 (80.6 - 95%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Significant.
Scizor
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 340-400 (98.8 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 238-282 (69.1 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
That's... a big deal, actually.
Mamoswine
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 328-388 (77.3 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 288-342 (67.9 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
also a big deal.
Gengar
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 206-244 (78.9 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 180-213 (68.9 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Beating Gengar a third of the time? I'll take it.
And the bane of all physical, Sableye:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sableye: 322-380 (105.9 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Sableye: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
SO, yes, that 20% does make a difference in a lot of cases. If you wanted a pokemon to sit there and launch Priority and massive hits... Crawdaunt does a pretty good job. He just takes less hits and delivers bigger hits.
Anyway, onto differences- Knockoff vs playrough
Both are good, but Knockoff is fantastic. That's basically it.
Crawdaunt also has the option of dragondancing, making it a true monster and a sweeper, something Azumarill can't hope to achieve.
So. Crawdaunt has some nice OHKOs with a band that Azumarill can't touch, and the option to DD, where Azumarill has bulk.
- Status