Sorry, should have clarified. Meant his movepool was bad as in attacking options. And Deoxys-S should be in OU much more then Crobat, my opinion at least. He really has an ability to rip through teams and I kinda see him in Wobuffet's situation (where he is classified as OU but people don't use him much just because he's always been associated with Ubers). I agree with your comment about Shaymin - he's the only base 600 that should be in BL. And 100's across the board are mediocre? I don't see Jirachi or Celebi as mediocre in any way. I'm pretty sure most people recognize Deoxy-S's potential (he can sweep teams very effectively, use Cosmic Power on a wall set, etc.) He should clearly be in OU. It's not really fair to compare him with Crobat - who doesn't have nearly as much potential, but is good in it's own right. He fills an unique niche with his typing, speed, and 4x resists. It's a niche that I can see as being pretty useful in OU.
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Crobat in the Metagame
- Thread starter TheSpinner
- Start date
100's across the board being mediocre is a comment that came up again and again in the threads on manaphy and mew, just throwing it out there.
I honestly think D-S isn't getting much usage because it's just doesn't have the power to be a top OU, not because of whatever BS about people refraining from it.
Crobat's got the speed and support options to be a powerful niche pokemon-- which it is, and which is why it's one of the more popular BLs-- because there IS value to a speedy hypnosis or taunt . . .
. . . just, not nearly as much value as a CS'd Outrage or Infernape's Flamethrower . . .
I honestly think D-S isn't getting much usage because it's just doesn't have the power to be a top OU, not because of whatever BS about people refraining from it.
Crobat's got the speed and support options to be a powerful niche pokemon-- which it is, and which is why it's one of the more popular BLs-- because there IS value to a speedy hypnosis or taunt . . .
. . . just, not nearly as much value as a CS'd Outrage or Infernape's Flamethrower . . .
Just posting to say Defensive Plotbat is awesome.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Trait: Inner Focus
Nature: Timid
EVs: 236 HP/216 Speed/56 SA
~ Air Slash
~ Hidden Power [Fighting]
~ Nasty Plot
~ Roost
Outspeed's Jolly Weavile, won't be OHKO'd by Ice Shard, switches in on Focus Punch like nothing. Getting flinched by a Plotted Air Slash is painful.
Granted this looks a lot like NP Togekiss, but Togekiss can't switch in on Focus Punch or Megahorn with impunity, and Crobat still laughs off Focus Punch after Roost while Togekiss is in pretty much the same place if not KO'd. Crobat is also immune to Toxic and can use Black Sludge if you're playing in Item Clause.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Trait: Inner Focus
Nature: Timid
EVs: 236 HP/216 Speed/56 SA
~ Air Slash
~ Hidden Power [Fighting]
~ Nasty Plot
~ Roost
Outspeed's Jolly Weavile, won't be OHKO'd by Ice Shard, switches in on Focus Punch like nothing. Getting flinched by a Plotted Air Slash is painful.
Granted this looks a lot like NP Togekiss, but Togekiss can't switch in on Focus Punch or Megahorn with impunity, and Crobat still laughs off Focus Punch after Roost while Togekiss is in pretty much the same place if not KO'd. Crobat is also immune to Toxic and can use Black Sludge if you're playing in Item Clause.
Crobat @ Black Sludge / WideLens
Trait: Inner Focus
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 hp
~ U-turn
~ Aerial Ace
~ Screech
~ Hypnosis
I'm not quite sure why no one has recognized screech as a support move as of it. It's actually one of his better support moves (imo). It forces switches and if your opponent is bold enough to stay in U-Turn into Dugtrio.
I'm glad someone brought up that Weavile cannot even 1 hit him with a non-boosted Ice Shard. ~30-40% dmg.
Crobat is defiantly one of my favorite Pokemon by far as well.
Trait: Inner Focus
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 hp
~ U-turn
~ Aerial Ace
~ Screech
~ Hypnosis
I'm not quite sure why no one has recognized screech as a support move as of it. It's actually one of his better support moves (imo). It forces switches and if your opponent is bold enough to stay in U-Turn into Dugtrio.
I'm glad someone brought up that Weavile cannot even 1 hit him with a non-boosted Ice Shard. ~30-40% dmg.
Crobat is defiantly one of my favorite Pokemon by far as well.
Has anyone fought a Haxbat before? It's like one of the most annoying things there. If you like gambling with luck, it could be worth a try. I've fought at least 3 variants of this b4.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
236 HP/216 Speed/56 SA
Timid
-Air Slash
-Confuse Ray
-Mean Look
-Roost/Attract
This bat is almost as annoying as Togekiss. Trap whoever, and then confuse + flinch them to death. Roost gives the bat staying power, but attract makes this bat even more annoying. Of course, playing this bat is a bit of gamble, but if you like luck, then Haxbat can be fun for you, and not so fun for your opponent.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
236 HP/216 Speed/56 SA
Timid
-Air Slash
-Confuse Ray
-Mean Look
-Roost/Attract
This bat is almost as annoying as Togekiss. Trap whoever, and then confuse + flinch them to death. Roost gives the bat staying power, but attract makes this bat even more annoying. Of course, playing this bat is a bit of gamble, but if you like luck, then Haxbat can be fun for you, and not so fun for your opponent.
Makes me think of a pseudo-TickleWobb set.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Some defensive EV spread
- Mean Look
- Screech
- Taunt / U-Turn
- Roost
Switch into a wall, something like Skarmory perhaps that won't switch out, and trap. Taunt to prevent Phazing, Screech three times, then switch to Tyranitar who Pursuits for a OHKO or near-OHKO. If you don't want Taunt you can put U-Turn instead, which pretty much guarantees a KO along with Pursuit, though in most cases (if you managed to get 3 Screeches) the extra damage would be unnecessary.
^Lol, Wobbabat.
That's cool, yeah I noticed screech too but forgot to type it in. >.>
X-act-- not my opinion on the 100s dude, just pointing out how many folks kept saying stuff like "It's got no defining stats therefore . . ." in the mew and manaphy threads.
That's cool, yeah I noticed screech too but forgot to type it in. >.>
X-act-- not my opinion on the 100s dude, just pointing out how many folks kept saying stuff like "It's got no defining stats therefore . . ." in the mew and manaphy threads.
What hurt Crobat more in this gen is Choice Scarf. Before, having 130 base speed meant Crobat outsped most of the pokémon, tying with Jolteon and Aerodactyl and losing only to Electrode and Ninjask.
Now, with so many pokémon commonly carrying a Choice Scarf, plus all the ones that don't carry one usually but might, makes the 130 speed not so useful. It's still great, mind you, but now you can't be 100% sure you outspeed them except in few cases. Now, even a 71 base speed pokémon, with CS max speed EVs and a positive nature can outspeed it.
I feel that losing the reliability of outspeeding the foe hurt Crobat the most.
Now, with so many pokémon commonly carrying a Choice Scarf, plus all the ones that don't carry one usually but might, makes the 130 speed not so useful. It's still great, mind you, but now you can't be 100% sure you outspeed them except in few cases. Now, even a 71 base speed pokémon, with CS max speed EVs and a positive nature can outspeed it.
I feel that losing the reliability of outspeeding the foe hurt Crobat the most.
Yeah, I agree that he got hurt by Choice Scarf. Much harder to predict if you can outspeed or not with CS users. Basically, I was just trying to point out how useful Crobat can be. I've seen some very interesting sets posted (psuedo-wobba lol) which pretty much show Crobat's interesting support options.
Most pokemon in the BL tier seem to be weaker/less effective versions of their OU counterparts. Crobat is unique with both his stats (decent defenses with high speed) and support options. This is why I feel he deserves a bit more usage and perhaps belongs in the bottom part of OU.
I obviously do not expect him to have the value of an Infernape or Garchomp. Those are both top tier OU pokes and Crobat simply cannot compare to them. However, he is interesting and unique, which is what I was trying to point out. I feel like I've successfully raised the Crobat awareness of Smogon, so hopefully he sees a bit more usage.
Most pokemon in the BL tier seem to be weaker/less effective versions of their OU counterparts. Crobat is unique with both his stats (decent defenses with high speed) and support options. This is why I feel he deserves a bit more usage and perhaps belongs in the bottom part of OU.
I obviously do not expect him to have the value of an Infernape or Garchomp. Those are both top tier OU pokes and Crobat simply cannot compare to them. However, he is interesting and unique, which is what I was trying to point out. I feel like I've successfully raised the Crobat awareness of Smogon, so hopefully he sees a bit more usage.
this is the crobat i run, and it works very well:
crobat@black sludge
jolly, max speed, rest in HP and defenses
hypnosis
taunt
aerial ace
roost
as long as it's not a boosted STAB attack or a SE attack, crobat usually survives. also, aerial ace w/o EVs or personality is still a OHKO on min/min heracross (and by extension breloom). roost gets rid of like 3 weaknesses at once, but watch for EQ as it will kill you.
laughs at heracross w/o rock move, and if i taunt a skarmory or something similar, i switch to my set-up poke.
of course, scarf is a pain, but the pokes that i usually have to look for:
heracross
garchomp
gengar? (like 1/4 the time)
typhlosion
heatran
random others like houndoom, porygon-Z, etc that could be scarfed but usually aren't
this means that i switch out until i knock off / know which item they're holding.
crobat@black sludge
jolly, max speed, rest in HP and defenses
hypnosis
taunt
aerial ace
roost
as long as it's not a boosted STAB attack or a SE attack, crobat usually survives. also, aerial ace w/o EVs or personality is still a OHKO on min/min heracross (and by extension breloom). roost gets rid of like 3 weaknesses at once, but watch for EQ as it will kill you.
laughs at heracross w/o rock move, and if i taunt a skarmory or something similar, i switch to my set-up poke.
of course, scarf is a pain, but the pokes that i usually have to look for:
heracross
garchomp
gengar? (like 1/4 the time)
typhlosion
heatran
random others like houndoom, porygon-Z, etc that could be scarfed but usually aren't
this means that i switch out until i knock off / know which item they're holding.
I have loved the bat since GSC. I think he is very underrated, even if he is not as good as Infernape or Gengar, etc. He still is a niche filler and is one good damn starter, if not one of the best. He gets a faster Hypnosis then Gengar and can just walk all over the likes of Heracross or Breloom, barring Stone Edge of course. He can actually work as a revenge killer for Gengar if he has Specs and Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse. And the new option of Nasty Plot is not to be overlooked. I think this gen is the best Crobat has had so far. I really would love to see his usage go up.