ORAS UU Crocune Hazard Team

[EmilRichter]

Hello Smogon,
So I failed at my first attempt to post my team. Let's see if I succeeded this time lol.

So the point of this team is to set out some hazards and weaken the other team to bring out Suicune after all its checks have been taken care of.

Here is one replay of a battle I had, though it was very incomplete. I will get a few more replays later tonight to post as well.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-253553455

Here is a better replay. I only really lost because I thought I could kill it outright and I should've just used Rest and Sleep Talk, but I got a chance to use most of my Pokemon.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-253702754

And here is another decent replay...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-253721519



Aggy (Aggron) (F) @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Rest
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock

Aggron is my mega evolution. I chose Aggron to put out hazards and to give myself a little stall/phasing action. I chose to go with max HP to help out Aggron's already massive Def stat. The near perfect Atk EV is mostly so Dragon Tail can do as much damage as possible. I only put some into speed for the sake of speed creeping. I may just wind up putting it all into Atk and SpD. Aggron's main purpose is to put out Stealth Rocks while being a massive physical wall. Dragon Tail was chosen to switch out the opponent's mons. Rest has been essential, because I've noticed Aggron gets worn down over the course of a battle. Once I added Rest to the mix, he can last much longer (especially with Florges' Aromatherapy). Iron Head is there mostly because it is just a powerful STAB move.

Flo (Florges) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Aromatherapy

Florges is my team healer and special wall. The EV spread is meant to bulk up her Def since her base SpD is already pretty good. Again I have the Spe EVs just to maybe outspeed someone in the same Spe tier, but I'm starting to think its useless. Moonblast is her only damaging move and should work well against Dragons. Wish and Aromatherepy are there for team healing, especially to get rid of Sleep on Aggron and Suicune after Rest. Protect is there in case she needs Wish to heal herself. I have Mental Herb on her mostly to protect her from Taunts, but I'm not sure if this is the best item I could have on her.

Nala (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Calm Mind

Suicune is my main win condition. I am hoping that the hazards put out by the rest of my team will allow Suicune with a Calm Mind to sweep through the opponent's team. The EV spread is to help maximize Suicune's Natural bulk, and was chosen knowing that Calm Mind would be used to boost SpD and SpA. Leftovers are there because any choice items would ruin the Rest/Sleep Talk combo. This is a basic Crocune set that seems to work pretty efficiently. The only thing I wonder is if there is another item besides Leftovers I could run on her, just so another Poke could use them.

Sergez (Roserade) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Toxic Spikes

Rosarade was chosen as another hazard setter. The EV spread is there to help Giga Drain hit for as much as possible, so she can heal herself a bit. Sludge Bomb is there as another STAB move to take advantage of her strong SpA. I run Sleep Powder to hopefully be able to set up Toxic Spikes and switch out to Aggron to Dragon Tail their team around. The Life Orb is on the set also for the reason of boosting Giga Drain for recovery.

The Don (Donphan) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot

Donphan is of course my spinner. With this Donphan, I thought it was a good idea to go Assault Vest, since I need some more attack coverage and it would help with his natural bulk. Rapid Spin is there for obvious reasons. Earthquake is also obviously his strongest STAB move. Gunk Shot is there simply for coverage. Knock Off is there because I always like trying to run this move on one Pokemon. Donphan isn't usually my first choice, but with this set I think it fits him the best. His EV spread maximizes his Atk while maintaining some of his bulk (and still Speed creeping).

Burny (Chandelure) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Energy Ball
- Trick
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball

Chandelure is there sort of as a spin blocker. I always feel like a ghost is necessary, but the UU tier seems to not have too many ghosts. Chandelure's other main purpose is to take out any bulky Grass types that Suicune may have problems with. The EV spread and Choice Scarf are intended to help him hit hard and fast. Flamethrower and Shadow Ball are the STAB moves. Energy Ball is there to possibly hit slow Water types, though I haven't actually gotten to see how well that works yet. And finally Trick is there because everyone seems to run Trick on Choice sets. I understand why, which is why I am using it, but it has yet to help me in battle. My other idea instead of Trick was Memento. Any thoughts on this?



So in a nutshell, I am trying to lead with either Aggron or Roserade to get off Rocks/T. Spikes. Then I am trying to remove any checks/counters to Suicune. Once that has been accomplished, I am trying to set up the Calm Mind with Suicune and sweep through the remainder of the team. I am pretty new to battling within the tiers on Showdown, so any help is appreciated. Let me know if I missed anything essential to the RMT post. Thanks guys!

 

[Cornelly]

hmmmm, ok Heavy Slam is better than Iron Head for Aggron, Aggron is slow to use Iron Head

 

[EmilRichter]

Hmm Yeah I didn't even think about that. I'm used to running someone with Thunder Wave with my Aggron so I used to go for the paraflinch with Iron Head. Maybe I will try that heavy slam though with this set.

 

[jjoshcja]

You seem to be missing a few fundamentals, this team really feels like a semi core thrown onto 2 offensive mons feat AV vomitphan. While it can work with some modification it will still have heavy weaknesses and rely mostly on suicune ft the added mons to really function in this metagame.

Decent enough team concept I guess... the text is supposed to go UNDER the mon descriotions by the way, aka...

Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast

You're running 252/252+ florges, with a friggin mental herb. Aromatisse has more physical bulk than flower lady a natural and permanent mental herb via its ability and just works better on your team, though you may way to swap slowly to a mixed bulk spread over time aroma's fat fatter wishes and better physical bulk make it a superior option in every way.

Run roar on suicune over sleep talk.

Megron desperately needs at least a 120+ spdef investment in UU.

Dual spikes spdef rade with black sludge may fit this team better than offensive dual spikes rade with black sludge but that's up to you.

Chandelure is a fun guy, but its scarf set is painfully bad without setup+ memento, if you just love scarf I would consider running belly drum slurpuff over donphan with memento/dual stab/trick on scarf chandy. You lose out on spin which sucks but hazards core into slurrpuff is a pretty devastating wincon. I'll suggest this as it can mask most of the weaknesses of this team (and this team has a lot of weaknesses sorry) behind an overall stratagem of hazard>sweep with 2 very different wincons.

Overall it does feel like you're lacking experience and knowledge, I recommend both the UU sample team thread and the UU resources/Battlign 101 resources heavily. The idea behind this team was good but it's drastically lacking in execution.

Also seriously, use edit, cut, and paste to reformat this rmt please.

Edit: thanks for the reformat, much easier on the eyes now.

 

[Kink]

• I agree that if you're going defensive w/ mental herb on Florges, then defensive aromatisse is definitely your call. Standard 252 hp 252 speed (or, if you want, you can take 12 points from defense and speed creep it in order to outspeed all base 30s.

• I question the use of so much Attack on Aggron when the focus is a rest-talk defensive mon. I'd definitely shift the focus of the EVs, investing around 120 EVs in SpDef, followed by 16 EVs and an Impish nature for Defense (between 12 EVs and 16 EVs, you actually get a free investment point), and dump the remaining 120 EVs into attack. This let's you take on a bunch of things defensively including not getting 2HKOed by Neutral hits from Pokemon such as Hydreigon or even super effective hits such as CC Cobalion or +2 Mence (EQ). In general, the defensive distribution will work well with the semi-stall nature of this team. I'd also highly recommend replacing Iron Head for Heavy Slam.

• I'd recommend going defensive on Roserade, but only to an extent. The set that I have in mind (that will really benefit the defensive core pressure of this team) is the following:
  Roserade @ Black Sludge
  Ability: Natural Cure
  EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 Spe
  Timid Nature
  IVs: 0 Atk
  - Sleep Powder
  - Giga Drain
  - Sludge Bomb
  - Spikes / Toxic Spikes
  • The speed EVs allow you to Sleep Powder all standard Entei's and any Adamant Salamence, including all Rotoms (who hit 298), Haxorus (297), and Positive Natured base 85 mons such as Nidoking or Heracross.
  • The def EVs are to better take the occasional moderate physical hit better; the redundancy with Passive Recovery + the extra few HP actually really screws up this meta, rhythmically speaking.
  • The choice between Spikes and Toxic Spikes is entirely up to you. This team would benefit from either application.

• Suicune absolutely needs Roar otherwise it's setup fodder for Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Snorlax. Also, be sure to speed creep so that other Suicunes have the shorter end of the Roaring stick. Taking 12 EVs from HP should suffice, and will also let you outspeed defensive Rotoms for fun.

• Chandelure absolutely needs the power from Fire Blast. You don't have the luxury of running a weaker move like Flamethrower considering you're substituting stall efficiency for a reasonable Revenge killer / late-game cleaner. Further, consider replacing Energy Ball with Memento, is this'll give Cune the necessary turn or two to get game changing Calm Minds in.

 

[teal6]

hmmmm, ok Heavy Slam is better than Iron Head for Aggron, Aggron is slow to use Iron Head

Disagree that this is always true. I've had teams where I struggle with Mamoswine and Abomasnow and in those cases Iron Head is better (particularly against Mamoswine).

Now on to the actual rate:

I don't see a super clear thesis behind this team. I agree with jjosh in that the team looks like it wants to be balanced/semi-stall but has two outright offensive mons sort of throw in. This is what I like to think of the "Chansey HO" problem, where OU teams will feature a ton of Hyper Offense mons like Bisharp, Mega Pinsir, etc. and then throw on a Chansey for some almost inexplicable reason. Yours is the inversion of that, with Roserade and a tepidly offensive Chandelure.

So, at first glance your team struggles pretty mightily with Reuniclus. This isn't an uncommon problem in UU, as a lot of us have sort of learned lately, it's a really tough mon to deal with. Scarf Chandelure is a very shaky check that requires really precise play in order to beat Reuniclus. Not only does it struggle switching in (taking roughly 77% if Reuni Psychocks on the switch, or OHKOd if Reuni has SB and successfully predicts) but it fails to OHKO in turn. With a CM up, Reuni can deal with it as well, and if you somehow screw up and let it get two then it's more or less GG. I do not want to over focus on one mon in particular as this can lead to gaps in teambuilding but in this case I think it's not necessarily a bad idea - I'd do the same if it were any other mon that I think can nearly 6-0 a team. In this particular case, the fixes are a bit easier though and this mon will be covered over the course of my suggestions.

I do believe you are interested in sweeping with Suicune, considering the name of the thread and the fact that it is really the only potential sweeper on the team. When I build teams where Suicune is the centerpiece, I always try to worry about Heliolisk first because it's the most common "answer" to Cune. Short of running Ice Beam and trying to hit it on the switch (which I don't think fits your team) to wear it down, you usually need a partner to take it out. Luckily, I think I have the perfect suggestion!

Replace Donphan with Dugtrio

I've come to note lately that Dugtrio is probably my favorite Suicune partner if only because so many teams will slap on a Whimsicott or a Heliolisk and consider themselves covered. Dugtrio, fortunately, beats both of these 1v1. I've been messing around with the particular set a bunch but this is the one I'm using now:

Dugtrio @ Life Orb
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 140 Atk / 144 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Sludge Wave
- Aerial Ace
- Memento

This set allows you to OHKO Whimsicott, outspeed max speed timid Whimsicott, OHKO Heliolisk, OHKO Entei after rocks, OHKO uninvested Heracross after rocks. So you have some targets you can take out without much concern, and two really important ones. Coverage moves, in this case Aerial Ace and Memento, can be substituted for a few things according to your preference. Some folks like Stone Edge or Sucker Punch, but IMO I don't particularly like either. One interesting option that you can take, if you need to get a hit off on a Sharpedo, is substitute which you can set up on a predicted protect (strategy stolen from Diglett vs Carvanha in LC). Reversal is also an option which could be paired with Endure.

Second suggestion is definitely Roar on Cune. You need it to help deal with bulky set up mons which terrorize a lot of UU. These mons include Snorlax and the aforementioned Reuniclus, both of whom beat Cune 1v1 if you are both running "Cro" sets.

Next, on Chandelure, I would switch to a Specs set. Scarf Chandelure sounds good in theory but hits a weird speed tier, where it doesn't outspeed MAero or anything that you'll catch by surprise and OHKO. A Specs set will dent pretty much anything in the tier as Ghost is a pretty good neutral offensive type coming off of a massive SpA, so no switchins bar Blissey or P2 will enjoy Chandy being on the field and both are suseptible to Trick once you've established your opponents habits. Mons knocked into the 30% range become much easier for Dugtrio to knock out, and given the defensive core of your team you can "hit and run" with him quite often.

Use King UU's Roserade set.

Switch Florges to Aromatisse if you want, but I'd like something like Mandibuzz in that slot a lot better. You have two Rest mons and a mon with natural cure, I don't think passing Wishes or having Heal Bell support is super important to your team. Mandibuzz makes your matchup against stall a lot better and pairs well with Suicune, as in tandem they can wear down opponents that are ill equipped to be taking Spikes/SR/Scald burn damage especially when you hit them with Knock Off and Taunt. You have the best Fairy switch in in the tier with MAggron (use the set suggested above, or hell go even more SpDef because I don't think your attack investment nets you any particularly different KOs but I could be wrong) so adding a Fairy weakness isn't an issue for you.

This does give you a bit of a ground issue, as having consistent EQ switch ins is always good, but your primary ground worries are going to be Krook and Mamoswine. Fortunately, Suicune can deal with both pretty well so that's not a super big issue. Alternatively, you can add Endure/Reversal in the last two Dugtrio slots to take care of Krook, leaving only Mamoswine a pain but again, Suicune is one of the best answers in the tier.

edit: This leaves you a bit weak to ScarfShao, but you can dissuade HJK spam with Chandelure and outstall with Mandibuzz Roosts until it misses. You can deal with this mon but will have to play cleverly around it.