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CroCune Is back, and better than EVA! [OU]

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CROCUNE, NEED I SAY MORE!?

Introduction;
As you might've noticed, this team is al built around the CroCune set. And
as oldschool as it may be, In my opinion it still is the best sweeping Cune
set in existance! With the right support and team built around him, he
is unbelievable deadly! And with some testing I got a team together pretty
quickly. Altough it hasn't been trough a lot of changes it is a pretty solid
team, it got me to top30 on PO in beta server. But I still have lots of
trouble, and I hope you guys can help me with it! And I gotta warn you
this team has a GAY alert, combining SkarmBliss with Breloom!


Team building proces;
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The poke the whole team is build around, CroCune. I wanted to use him
again for a long time now, and I was at a friends house and he kept
beating me.. And I said: "Imma make my Crocune team and own your ass".
And so I did, but he didn't wanna battle me anymore so...
But now we have CroCune, but as you now waters are a pain..
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The solution to watertypes! This poke is the gayest, and yet greatest
pokémon to get annoying stuff out of the way! I absolutly hate Breloom.
But I wanted to make this team as good as I possibly could... And that
meant putting in a Breloom to deal with watertypes, and only being walled
by two pokémanz in OU, namely Zapdos and Celebi. And often the latter
can't hurt me!
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Next I wanted a defensive core, wich I could rely on no matter what I face.
And a few days back I showed marrilands team to a bud of mine who never
knew him, and SkarmBliss was what came to mind! And with them only
taking 2 spots instead of a defensive core with 3 I was bought!
And they have proven their skills to me in the past, so I wasn't hesitated
to use them!
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Next I needed someone who could deal with stall.. And seeing the poke's
that I used, I saw that I was only using poke's (except Loom) that I
wanted to use again or try out (wich was Loom). And I also needed a spin-
blocker, with Rotom-A being so high in usage and me wanting to use a
Gengar again the spot was easy to give! And he also became my second
counter to the pink Blob of the opponent, wich untill now was still a little
problem!
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I still needed a lead, and someone who could take hits like a champ, this
team was starting to look like stall/semi-stall anyways, so sandstorm was
a nice bonus, but you stil don't know which one of the two I picked =D
Seeing that I wanted a pHazer next to Skarmory to rack up entry-hazard
damage, it was pretty obvious for me it would be Hippowdon. He also gave
me a second check/counter to Lucario which ran trough this team when
Gengar was gone. And on a side-note I haven't changed any members yet.
But this is the spot I'm least certain about, since some moves just hurt to
much... A well, the final member of the team!
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Now that the team was complete I felt pretty good about it. It was time to
test it on Pokemon Online, cuz I don't like Shoddy.. And it did pretty good overall (same story in
introduction LOLZ), but there were still some obvious
weaknesses.. But I have a hard time adjusting the team to them myself so
I hope you will rate this team!

The entire team on a line-up!
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The zoom'n pan look!(warning, leftovers alert!)
Changes will be in Italic!



hippowdon.png

The lead and physical tank/wall of the team!
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Impish nature, with the ability sand stream.
Ev's; 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
~ Earthquake
~ Protect
~ Slack Off
~ Roar
Hippowdon, what a beast.. Altough I have my doubts about him, he still
does his job exceptionally well. He starts off the game by wipping up
his famous sand storm, which helps me whittle down the opponents poke's
who are affected by it. While al my poke's have a form of extra recovery or
aren't afected by it. Further there is Roar to shuffle my opponents team
around to scout his team, and for most see his water types, which I need
to get out of the way for Suicune to get of a sweep. Protect has helped
me a lot.. And I don't miss rocks cause I have someone else for that.
The protect let's me scout what kind of Azelf someone has, block explosion,
and giving me a extra turn to recover with my leftovers! Slack off is pretty
obvious, cuz he needs the recovery to take on the physical attackers in OU.
EV's;
I took my own EV spread over standard tank Hippowdon cuz I also have a
Blissey on this team, and this way he can take physical hits even better!
If someone can recommend something better for this spot I'll listen very good!

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The spiker and physical wall of this team!
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Impish nature, with the ability keen eye
Ev's;
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
~ Roar
~ Roost
~ Spikes
~ Brave Bird
There is no one better at what this Skarmory does, and with good reason!
The only one who get's close is Forry, but without recovery and missing
the awesome synergy with a special wall that Skarm has.. So the moves..
I'll go from top to bottom. Roar, whirlwind is standard so I wanted Roar XD.
It is for more pHazing, and with the spikes + rocks I can rack up some nice
damage in case Suicune get's taunted and only can get to +1, and still sweep.
Usually I lure someone in using outrage or let Scizor get locked in BP, so
that Skarmory can come in and set up at least one layer of spikes and can
come back later to finish the job. I don't need to get all three layers up so
quick. I have time, if you look at my team you will agree! Skarmory also
let's me own Machamp in his face, since most Champs are leads I Roar them
out with Hippowdon so Skarmory can kill it mid-game. And Brave Bird is just
for a low attack that Skarmory has a decent move with some nice out-put.
I really don't need to explain Roost do I? =P. Skarmory is a beast in this
team because it has such great synergy with my two other walls/tanks.
EV's;
I also edited the standard defensive Skarmory EV spread because the Spe
ev's don't really seem all that useful to me and I don't need the attack. And
this way, I can even take a special hit.. Altough I never do because I have
Blissey, which you will see next!

blissey.png

The special wall, and stealth rocker of the team!
Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold nature, with the ability natural cure
Ev's;
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
~ Stealth Rock
~ Softboiled
~ Seismic Toss
~ Toxic
And what I said with Skarmory applies here to, there is no one who does
Blissey's job better than she does.. The only one who has a shot at it is
Clefable, but that one doesn't even come close.. Blissey is a one of a kind.
And she is unreplaceable! She get's so much opportunities to lay up rocks,
which is why she has them, cuz when I just Blissey before and
I predicted a switch I couldn't do anything but hope
it wasn't a Gengar or something, but
now I can just lay-up Rocks. I previously ran Light Screen over Rocks, and
Rocks on Hippowdon instead of Protect, but this works out WAY better!
Blissey is just here to take special hits all day and spread status, which
in combination of the pHazing of Hippowdon and Skarmory wears down my
opponent real fast. But if for some reason I lose Blissey early game, it can
be GG.. So I play very carefull around Heatran and the sorts, I fear Explosion..
The combination of Toxic - Seismic Toss doesn't hit Gengar which I don't like..
But it is the best set for this team. As you might've noticed by now is that
Gengar is a pretty huge problem for this team.. The same goes for SubRtom
cause if it lacks Substitute I can just toxic with Blissey.. Otherwise it's a pain.
Gengar can deal with Rotom though.. But rather not.
Blissey is also prefect to beat the annoying tank Vaporeon with toxic/softboiled cause that's such
a pain, but Breloom can handle it to.. But I do have to have Sub up.
EV's;
Standard EV's for Blissey cause they just work the best, not much else to
say here... Let's move on with the cheapest Pokémon ever!

breloom.png

The pokémon who cleans waters for Suicune!
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Adamant nature, with the ability Poison heal
Ev's;
12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
~ Spore
~ Subsitute
~ Seed Bomb
~ Focus Punch
Breloom, the coolest, the cheapest, the easiest and formost the best way
to get rid of bulky waters. Breloom always was one of my fave's but spore
and the way it was used in the metagame quickly changed that.. But that
doesn't change the fact that Breloom is epic pr0! Do I really need to explain
this set? I use Spore to get a free Substitute and proceed from there.
Only 2 pokémanz I can think off that are used a lot can stop this set cold.
Zapdos, and Celebi.. Both are pretty easily handled by the rest of the team
altough Celebi can be quiet annoying, my Modest Gengar can deal with him.
The only purpose of Breloom is to take out water types, wich with STAB
Seed Bomb isn't that much of a problem. It comes in on slower poke's to
set-up, and sometimes sweep.. Cause it is highly possible that I have rackd
up some nice residual damage on someones team that Breloom just cleans
up. Breloom also serves as my stall breaker. A really well played stall team
even have problems with Breloom.. I can 6-0 weak stall teams with ease
with only Loom.. But than I play really gay and Spore everything. I usually
Spore once to get a free Substitute and only use Spore again when it is
absolutly necessairy.. Cause letting everyone sleep isn't fun and there is
no skill in that.
EV's;
Standard EV's, 244 Spe ev's allow me to outspeed Rotom-A and a lot of
more stuff, like Jolly Tyranitar and stuff. max attack for max damage output
on watertypes and even Zapdos if it switches in on a Falcon Punch <--LOL

gengar.png

The second stall-breaker and a great spin-blocker for the team!
Gengar @ Leftovers
Timid nature, with the ability levitate
Ev's;
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Pain Split
~ Substitute
~ Focus Blast
~ Shadow Ball
SubPain Gengar equals EPIC WIN! This guy is so amazing.. I just love it
brings down a Blissey.. It is just so hilarious and on top of that, a lot of
teams aren't prepared for a Gay like this... This thing can stall like hell and
that's why I opted for Leftovers over Life Orb because sandstorm + Sub + LO
equals 3 turns of health.. Which doesn't appeal to me at all. But with lefties
it recovers the sandstorm damage, and with the Modest nature I don't lose
that much power. And now you guys are wandering, Modest why?! Well it's
pretty logic actually, at least to me. I want more surviveability with leftover
and don't want to lose so much power, and when I go modest over timid I
only lose to Ape, which I have no problems with whatsoever and lose my
speedtie with other Gengar and 110/100 based speed. Which I don't find to bad, since I can handle them.
And I really don't think this set needs anymore
explanation..
EV's;
Standard, only modest over timid but I explained that.. Hope you don't critisize
that to much! XD

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The star of the team, and main sweeper for the team!
Suicune @ Leftovers
Bold nature, with the ability pressure
Ev's;
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe
~ Surf
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
This is where the whole team works to, and the one a little more than the other.
CroCune, what a beast. I'll explain how he works real quick cause it isn't
that difficult, you just need to know what move to use when.
You send it in when you it's main counters are gone (in my team trickers
are still a huge issue, I now let Gengar take the trick), you start
Calm Minding, you get damage, and some more damage, and some more CM's.
You use rest when you get to much damage, you sleep for 2 turns so you
use Sleep Talk, and with a 33,33% change on Surf and Calm Mind sweeping
and setting up isn't a problem at all! And with proper set up it just rapes!
The whole team was built around this one goal, and I think they do it pretty
good.. But you guys are hopefully gonna make them even better!
EV's;
Since you use Calm Mind you want to optimise the physical bulk so physical
moves don't hurt to much, which is why I have Bold with 252 HP and Def.
The high defenses of Cune make it a terrific user for this kind of set.


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This was the team.. I hope you enjoyed, I'll
mention some stuff which I have huge problems
with below. RATE MY TEAM (if you wanna ;P)


  • Trick users, the biggest pain for this team, I now go to Gengar
  • Starmie and Gengar, If Bliss is down Starmie rapes, and Gengar rapes anyways...
  • Toxic spikes, but that's only Hippowdon so not that big a deal.
  • HAX (namely Jirachi)
 
Hello

My first suggestions is to replace Hippowdon with the standard lead Gliscor. This will help you greatly against Tyranitar and Lucario, who could be problematic for your team. It also doesn't create a Sandstorm which troubles your other team members bare Skarmory. The Gliscor I suggest has the simple EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature. It holds Leftovers and has the Sand Veil ability. It has a moveset of: Stealth Rock / U-turn / Roost / Earthquake.

If you decide to keep Hippowdon I suggest you change your EV spread to 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD. I know you have Blissey but the little investment in special defence will really be appreciate by Hippowdon. Hippowdon already has a very good defensive stat.

Is there a reason you run Roar on Skarmory? Otherwise it would be best to change that to Whirlwind. While it doesn't matter much it does help against Baton Pass teams who could go to Mr. Mime to block Roar or Smeargle with Ingrain.

On Gengar I suggest a Timid nature. This allows you to outspeed a wider variety of opposing pokemon, like Infernape, while the loss in power is neglectable.

Hope this helped and good luck with the team!
 
Hey, nice generic stall team you've got here.

First thing I noticed, is that you're weak to Mixed Infernape; Infernape can take down Hippowdon with GrassKnot, Skarmory with Fire Blast, Blissey with Close Combat, Suicune with Grass Knot after some damage, and Gengar may go down to a Pursuit user earlier on, or Bullet Punch Scizor, since Infernape+Scizor is a very common combo. If you do go with Delko's suggestion of Stall Breaker Gliscor, then you can replace Gengar with a more defensive Spin-Blocker, Rotom-W, since Gliscor's already there for stall breaking.

Here's the set:

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Rotom-W
Nature: timid
Item: Choice Scarf
Evs: 200Hp/56satk/252spe
Moves:
-thunderbolt
-hydro pump
-shadow ball
-trick
with this you get a pokemon to mess-up stall with trick and check sd lucario with bullet punch (a huge threat currently) as well as infernape, while spin-blocking with nice bulk. Its also not as much of a pursuit target as your Gengar, because A. Scizor's pursuit will not do much if you decide to stay in and kill it with thunderbolt and B. You can Hydro Pump Scarf Tyranitar as it switches in making it more likely to not switch directly anymore. I suggest you use this set with care, as using Shadow Ball to early will only bait in Scarf Tyranitar to kill you, so scout the opponent's team first before doing so!

Other than that, it looks like a pretty standard stall team, and with the Gliscor set the above user poster and Trick coming from this Rotom-W, you will surely cripple other stall teams, while also taking out dangerous offensive team stat-uppers, i.e. SD Lucario, SD Infernape, Agility Metagross.

Good Luck!
 
@ Delko, I already thought of Gliscor to.. But the reason I didn't chose him over Hippowdon was because with Hippo I can easily rack up spikes and rocks damage.. Which really helps me.. And I am going to try it though.. And also Timid Gengar, however I doubt I will keep Gengar Timid.. Gliscor may find his way in the team however..

@ TheLegendKiller If I'm going to change my Gengar nature to Timid I outspeed Ape so there is my check and I use Substitute on the switch so I can OHKO scarfTar with Focus Blast.. But thanks anyways!

Thank you both for the rates, and I'll see what I can do with them!
 
Even if you do use Timid Gengar for Infernape, you have to think about the worst case scenario-what if Gengar is not behind the substitute and Tyranitar shows its ugly face? And again as I already mentioned Scarf Rotom-W gives you a check to a Bullet Punch Swords Dance Lucario who can rip apart the team by coming in on Blissey grabbing a boost and destroying the entire team, hippowodon as well after some prior damage, which its sure to get in the lead spot.

Just something to note, if you don't end up using Gliscor...

Edit: rotom w also stops trick from scarfers and jirachi, revenges Gengar and Starmie as you mentioned in the threats section as well so at least give it a try =\
 
I agree with The Legendkiller. You NEED ScarfRotom on this team. It checks everything that has been said already but also checks Gyarados, who absolutely 6-0's you without effort with the Bulky Set utilizing taunt. The Evs previously posted were not correct, try 252 HP / 4 Special Attack / 252 Speed using a Timid nature and Rotom - H. The extra bulk helps you absorb hits from Starmie and Forretress better while trying to block spin, and you hit what you need to hard enough already.

I think you need to work in Ice Beam on Suicune's set to nail DD Dragonite who could a pain otherwise...you could force it to outrage but like Gyarados it can set up on a lot of your team. The set you might use is CM / Surf / Ice Beam / Rest with your same nature / spread. Be cautious with rest however to avoid becoming setup fodder.

Random - use Whirlwind on Skarmory just in case you face a baton pass team with Mr. Mime on it that hasn't ingrained yet...Whirlwind doesn't hate soundproof so its situational as fuck but superior!

Ditch Protect on Hippowdon and replace it with Stealth Rock. This allows you to run another attack on Blissey which is crucial because you need to be able to hit Gengar to keep your own Gengar set from destroying you. You might not be in a good position against it but you can at least stall against it somewhat. I suggest flamethrower because Ice Beam has little use anymore because the major mixed dragon still around is Dragonite who can nail you with SuperPower. Flamethrower also has excellent synergy with Toxic.


Anyway thats all i have, gl going forward!
 
With Scarf Rotom, his team becomes horridly weak to opposing Breloom. Gengar is a solid Breloom check, as it resists both of Breloom's STAB attacks, and can actually heal off Breloom's assaults thanks to recovery.

As for opposing Gyarados, Breloom counters those that don't have Bounce (Seed Bomb 2HKOs when not factoring intimidate).

If you are so concerned about Gyarados that have both Taunt and Bounce, place Hidden Power Electric over Sleep Talk on Suicune. If you do this, make sure to place Aromatherapy over Stealth Rock on Blissey, and Stealth Rock over Protect on Hippo.

As for DD Nite, you can place Ice Fang over Roar on Hippo. Simple as that.
 
For one thing, your RMT doesn't seem all that professional-looking. I don't know if you care but it does have an effect on how I look upon you. It makes me doubtful of your skill and I question your maturity, but don't make too big a deal out of it.

Other than that, you made an allusion this team is for DS, which places a bit of difficulty.

@Skarmory: Whirlwind is for, all purposes, better than Roar.

Other than that...well, Suicune is stopped by big physical sweepers, especially ones that resist Water. Those are usually Water types themselves, and cannot always be stopped by Breloom (Gyarados, Kingdra, and I suppose also Celebi and Zapdos). Trick, Special Attackers, and Toxic Spikes are the least of your problems. I also think you shouldn't be all that concerned with Spinblocking; you'd want to keep Toxic Spikes, if anything, and there's none of that.

Perhaps the largest threat of all is Dragonite. It can easily outmuscle much of your team. The only thing it truly fears is Blissey's Stealth Rock (with no Roost or Rapid Spin) or Toxic (Dragonite could have Safeguard, Heal Bell, or a cleric at its disposal).

First of all, I think Hippowdon needs Stone Edge.
Second of all, I believe that Gengar needs Thunderbolt. But Rotom can take hits all that much better. Not only that, Scarf Rotom has the power to outspeed and obliterate Heatran with Hydro Pump, who is otherwise a large bane for this team. I, like many others, vote "yea" on the Wash Rotom.

Super Mario Bro's claims aren't all that proximate. Breloom will obliterate Gengar. The type resistance isn't all that comfortable when you factor in STAB 80: 394 Attack (130 Base) onto 262 HP and 140 Def (both 60 Base).
Breloom can challenge Gyarados better than most. As (most of the time) it can only OHKO with the rare Ice Fang (or Bounce, with fast mindgames). You can perhaps even nail a OHKO with Focus Punch under the right circumstances, but your Breloom versus opposing Gyarados is 50/50 at best. Personally, I'd use Swords Dance while dropping Focus Punch, but I don't know how hard-headed you are. Another option is Scizor. Any set will do. More than anything else, however, I would like to use a Flygon, probably with ThunderPunch.
As for SMB's other options...the only thing I have to say is this: use Heal Bell over Aromatherapy.

Minor: If you want, use Roar over Suicune's Sleep Talk, but meh. Personally, I'd use 4 Special Def EVs instead of Speed. I would also say that Suicune counters Blissey rather than the other way around.
 
Super Mario Bro's claims aren't all that proximate. Breloom will obliterate Gengar. The type resistance isn't all that comfortable when you factor in STAB 80: 394 Attack (130 Base) onto 262 HP and 140 Def (both 60 Base).
.

Uh, this isn't true at all. This is what happens: you sacrifice something to sleep, and then you bring in Gengar as Breloom subs. Shadow Ball breaks Brelooms substitute as Seed Bomb does ~45% damage to Gengar. If Breloom stays in, it is at risk of being OHKO'd by a LO Shadow Ball.

Speaking of which, I currently see Leftovers on Gengar. You should place a Life Orb, as Gengar is already able to heal itself via Pain Split. Gengar really needs the extra power.
 
Hey,

Your team is 6-0ed automatically by DD Gyara. To remedy this, I'd suggest replacing Gengar with a Scarf Rotom. This guy checks plenty of threats to stall teams, ranging from DD Gyara to LO Starmie to SD Lucario. The loss of Gengar makes you a bit weak to opposing stall, but Breloom is still a pretty solid Stall-breaker. I'd recommend going with Rotom-w, simply for its ability to hit Tyranitar hard with Hydro Pump.

Since you lack a Rapid Spinner, opposing Stall teams become a bit of a problem. So, I'd suggest replacing Hippowdon with a Stall-breaker Gliscor set. This guy also helps you out with plenty of physical threats, such as DD Tyranitar and SD Scizor. Gliscor destroys Stall teams with Taunt+Earthquake+Toxic, and can be a real headache to take out with Sand Veil. Since Gliscor lures in Bulky Waters well enough and cripples them with Toxic, I'd suggest replacing Toxic on Blissey with Flamethrower, since you have a bit of a SubSplit Gengar weakness, and breaking its Subs goes a long way into helping deal with it. You can move Skarmory to the lead spot, since a Gliscor lacking Stealth Rock and U-turn isn't going to be doing much as a lead. An ideal EV spread for Gliscor would be simply 252 HP/252 Spe and a Jolly nature to outspeed Jolly Lucario.

Nice team, and gl!
 
Uh, this isn't true at all. This is what happens: you sacrifice something to sleep, and then you bring in Gengar as Breloom subs. Shadow Ball breaks Brelooms substitute as Seed Bomb does ~45% damage to Gengar. If Breloom stays in, it is at risk of being OHKO'd by a LO Shadow Ball. QUOTE]

You are absolutely right. That Poison-typing is vital.

Still, Gyarados is out there, and that cannot be emphasized enough. This can be accomadated for with Thunderbolt over Pain Split. Blissey will have to be worn down with by another team member (say...Suicune?).

In other news, I really don't think Rapid Spin is all that big a deal, even for Toxic Spikes. You'll be fine. Use Forretress over Skarmory if you want.
 
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