SmogonWorkHorse
Banned deucer.
I. Introduction
Dealing with leads is one of the most important factors in a dpp ou game. This guide will go into some detail how to best come out of a matchup situation, and how to minimise any losses due to a bad matchup.
Before we discuss how best to deal with any lead scenario it is important to know the leads, both common and rare ones.
Leads can be split into four categories:
(1) Suicide / "One Off" leads
(2) Tank leads
(3) Scouters
(4) Anti-leads
II. Suicide leads
Let us deal with Suicide leads first. They are very problematic to face due to the fact that you have to either dispose of them by exerting enough pressure before they can explode / taunt and get more damage by forcing switches or time it well and switch into a Ghost-type if you lack the means to ohko/2hko it. This is quite hard to do when using stall. Their main objective is to get up hazards so preventing them from doing so wins the war! However at times you have to allow them to set up in order to either kill them before they cause further damage to your team by forcing switches (revealing Pokemon too early can play a serious role later on in the game) or get up your own hazards predicting the no TAUNT turn 1. Suicide leads include:
-Aerodactyl: Quite common
-Azelf: Very common lead
-Bronzong: This is rarely seen I the lead slot however be aware of the possibility of encountering one.
-Froslass: Has a niche in that it spinblocks and gets up spikes quickly.
-Heatran: Quite common lead
-Infernape: Old school, still seen at times.
-Mamoswine: Known as the "lead that no-one likes facing and comes when you least want it to" not super common but is seen enough to be known by everyone.
-Metagross: Very common lead
-Roserade: Quite common, good typing and ability to get up spikes and toxic spikes, sleep powder is a great tool early game.
-Smeargle: It either excels or dies and accomplishes nothing. Due to its immense number of moves, it is hard to pin point what exactly its purpose on the opposing team is. Anticipate early spore followed by hazards and perhaps explosion or endeavour + focus sash.
-Snorlax: Very rare / gimmick lead
Forretress doesn’t get a mention as you shouldn’t be using it as a lead anyways in this day and age! It ain't 2010 anymore son, move on.
Azelf paints a pretty big problem for stall, it has access to taunt forcing most stall lead Pokemon to switch-out, possesses Explosion as well which it can use at the flick of its wrist and sometimes carries Fire Blast or Psychic to punish Ghost and Steel-type switch-ins predicting its Explosion. The best move to do if your lead has no way to 2hko Azelf (Think Hippowdon / Swampert) is to switch out directly to a Ghost-type or something that can take an explosion such as Heatran / Skarmory / Forretress / Jirachi or a scarf Tyranitar. If you stay in the risk is huge as you Stealth Rock and if Azelf Taunts you, you now have to switch-out and your opponent is well aware at this stage and can simply double with little risk to catch off your Ghost or even Fire Blast to catch a Steel-type. It is small things like this that can make lead matchup a lot easier. Now if the Azelf is a choice variant and lacks rocks, you it would suck for you to switch out as it U-turns however it's almost impossible to know what kind of Azelf it is before-hand and taking unnecessary risks is foolish when using stall.
Aerodactyl lacks Explosion and has mediocre attack stat making it easier to deal with. However newer players may not anticipate some slightly more offensive versions rocking Power Herb with Sky Attack to ohko Machamp turn 1 which can be a huge blow! Don't get Aerodactyled. Keep in mind some Aerodactyl leads lack Focus Sash and carry Life Orb instead to ohko Zapdos and Dragonite leads. Hippowdon if holding Ice Fang can immediately go for it 2hkoin the Aerodactyl, otherwise it has to switch out to a bulky water of Forretress preferably. A point to note is typically a double switch back to Hippowdon from Forretress would be wise on turn 2 to scout for Magnezone or a spin blocker which also ensures rocks from Hippowdon are laid down. Swampert leads can 2hko with Ice Beam.
Bronzong thankfully is slow as hell and isn't as strong as Metagross making its explosion alot easier to take. It also lacks Taunt meaning that you will always get up hazards against it with relative ease. Things to look out for is Explosion which can still severely dent Hippowdon and Swampert leads and Trick; it may carry Grass Knot or Hidden power Fire for luring and hurting Swampert and Forretress respectively but its very rare. Hypnosis isn't to be forgotten as well, it can cripple an opposing Pokemon early on in the match however you should be able to get up a layer of hazards before it puts your lead to sleep.
Empoleon isn't a suicide lead however doesn't stick around for long most of the time. It generally runs Focus Sash of the inferior Chople Berry and has 3 attacks with Stealth Rock. Nothing complicated about this Pokemon, it sports decent sp.att making it hard to take neutral hits unless you are switching in a Blissey or Clefable. Best switchins are Blissey and Clefable who can get rocks down on it, Gyarados cant do much back if it is a defensive variant and isn't the best of switch ins. I mention this as I see alot of users bring in Gyarados as their primary switch-in on Empoleon. Celebi, Roserade and Shaymin can switch into a well timed Hydro pump and either set up hazards, cripple the Empoleon or damage it, however they cannot take more than two ice beams so caution must be observed.
Froslass ensures its hazards stay until it dies thanks to its typing making it no.1 priority to kill it. Due to its paper thin defences one would think it is an easy task however it holds Destiny Bond threatening your attackers life. Alot of players simply spam attacks hoping that they'd win the 50/50 war and kill the Froslass as it spikes twice (or Taunt + Spike). There is no easy way around this and depending on your stall team, it may be best to hit the first time with your lead breaking its focus sash, then comes the hard part. It will most likely go for Taunt turn 1 as you Earthquake / Brave Bird / Gyro Ball etc then you may be tempted to bring in your scarf Pokemon to outspeed and kill it next turn however this brings ALOT of problems. Not only do you reveal your revenge killer in the 2nd turn of the game but Froslass can Destiny Bond forcing you to switch yet again or use a non attacking move which isn't wise. Your scarf user is most likely something that Tyranitar and Scizor will love to trap so chances are you will lose the match before it begun. Hit turn 1 followed, if the Froslass hasn't Taunted turn 1 go for the Stealth Rock as it is very common based on the analysis I have done that players favour getting a second layer of spikes (as it in theory is the safest option with the most reward).
Heatran can vary from choice specs, life orb, choice scarf, focus sash and shuca berry. However it isn't too hard to deal with due to its predictable movepool, all sets will carry a Fire-type attack coupled with Earth Power and Explosion. Stealth Rock is a big possibility along with some form of Hidden power or rarely Dragon Pulse. Hippowdon can get rocks down easily however soe leads carry Will-o-wisp so if you lack a Pokemon with Heal Bell / Aromatherapy make sure you keep those rocks that you sacrificed Hippowdon's status for! Swampert must be wary of Life Orb boosted HP Grass while Blissey and other Pokemon with weak defense stats must avoid Explosion. Hippowdon and Tyranitar can set uprght of the bat whilst other leads may have to switch.
Some Infernape variants are choiced however these aren't suicide leads. The Suicide lead consists of Fake Out / Fire Attack / Close Combat and Stealth Rock. Some may carry Endeavour as well so be wary however in this day and age it is getting less usage. Hippowdon and Swampert can get up rocks and then threaten Infernape out with ease. If your lead is a steel-type a Water-type switch-in is perfect such as Gyarados, Suicune or Starmie. Lead Suicide Ape carries Focus Sash so Hippowdon is the perfect counter-lead.
Mamoswine also carries Endeavour however it is alot more common on it. Expect to see Ice Shard for priority coupled with Earthquake for dual STAB. Stealth Rock and either Endeavour or Stone Edge fill the last two slots. Bronzong, Hippowdon, Swampert, Skarmory and Forretress easily handle it. Very easy lead for stall teams...not so easy for offensive teams.
Metagross plays quite similarly to Azelf minus the special attacks part making Forretress and Skarmory perfect answers to it. In my humble opinion it isn't worth risking the firs turn OHKO on your Hippowdon if you have a Skarm or Fort on your team. Due to the increase of Protect on Swampert these days, Metagross is less inclined to Explode on it first turn in comparison to Hippowdon so feel free to SR turn 1 with Swampert. If you lead with a Heatran you might want to switxh nevertheless as Metagross will live any attack you throw most likely due to Occa Berry or Focus Sash and can ohko in return with the potential Earthquake as you lack Shuca Berry on a stall team and shouldnt be leading with Heatran anyways. If you lead with Rotom-H you can cripple with Will-o-wisp while Nidoqueen leads may have to switch as well on turn 2 after exchanging the almost guaranteed Stealth Rocks with Metagross.
Roserade is quite tricky...just like poison ivy. If you lead with a weather inducer, you've won half the battle by auto breaking its focus sash. You could bring in a sleep absorber if your lead isn't threatened by Roserade's Lead Storm or HP Fire and then double back to your lead. Aggressive plays such as turn 1 attacks on Roserade can be risky especially if it also attacks turn 1 however can work if predicted right; still avoid this unless your team somehow CANNOT in any way deal with Roserade. Revealing 2-3 Pokemon to deal with Roserade is fine, remember the goal of stall isn't to conceal as many Pokemon as you would do with offense.
Smeargle is the bane of stall. It has access to Spore and possesses decent speed making ti hard to stop it from setting up hazards. The best you can do is limit the amount of hazards laid down. You could let it spore your weather lead turn 1 if you are lazy and hope you wake up early but that is banking on RNG and while a turn 2 wake up allows you to kill Smeargle in exchange for only one hazard down, waking up on turn 5 once every hazard under the rainbow is thrown at you is a bad situation to be in. If you lead with Scarf Tar then you can simply bring it down to its sash as it either sets up Rocks or spores and then it dies to residual damage. Lead Gliscor can Taunt Smeargle and set up its on Rocks or pivot predicting a switch. A very bad lead for stall to face...thankfully its very rare. If you lead with Forry or Skarmory or Swampert you can let it spore you, burn a turn of sleep that same turn then bring in a spinner to bait the opponent to go into their Ghost-type and double to a Trapper. This can backfire it Smeargle decides to simply explode however this will limit it to ONLY one layer of hazards down which is what matters most.
Snorlax is fat and can carry Fire Blast and Crunch along with Self Destruct making it really annoying however Skarmory should be able to take it on well, Hippowdon and Swampert can get rocks up however risk getting ohkoed by Self Destruct. Trying to bait a Self Destruct after turn 1 is what you should be looking for unless you possess Skarmory who can just set up on it and not get 2hkoed by Fire Blast if it even has it. Despite it being an unofficial lead and not on the Smogon dex, it is used sometimes and is worth warning about. It carries Lum Berry so avoid trying to sleep or burn it.
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III. Tank Leads
When using stall, dealing with other bulky leads isn't as hard as offensive threats, however caution must be shown. Like your lead, their objective will be to set up hazards asap and perhaps phaze your lead to rack up residual damage or switch to a spinner / second entry hazard user. Whichever player can force the most switches in a stall matchup ends up with a huge advantage. Remember, a smart player will always get damage if they are about to get phased. Knowing how to play the spin and block game is what stall is about for the most part. I cannot teach everything there is know about stall in one guide however a typical team must have a way or two to deal with opposing bulky lategame sweepers such as Calm mind Clefable / CR Suicune / Snorlax / Jirachi etc.
Steps which a stall vs stall game is all about:
1) Entry hazard initial phase / scouting
2) Preserving hazards + forcing switches
3) Continuing laying down hazards + attempting to spin
4) Getting into position to eliminate opposing Pokemon whcih stop your lategame sweeper / Getting into position to stop the opposing lategame sweeper which you have come to know.
eg. Hippowdon vs Swampert
Turn 1 you both get down Stealth Rock.
Turn 2 a smart Swampert player will go for the Roar if they lack Hydro Pump (Next to NO lead Swampert run Hydro Pump so its safe) as Ice Beam does jack shit to Hippowdon, most of which are specially defensive these days. Therefore Hippowdon can get free damage here kind of baiting the Roar whilst losing nothing even if Swampert decides to Ice Beam.
Remember, just because someone leads with a bulky tankish lead, doesn't mean the rest of their team will follow suit. It is common to see Hippowdon as a lead to semi stall which has an offensive win condition or two.
Below is a list of the bulky leads you should be on the lookout for and how to best deal with them in general.
- Hippowdon: The premier lead for stall teams and semi-stall.
- Skarmory: Not too common in the lead position.
- Swampert: Old school lead, still seen now and then.
- Forretress: Less and less seen in the lead slot, and for good reason.
- Tyranitar: Very recently has it seen its lead usage skyrocket.
- Rotom-A: Very rare. If led with, it will be a bulky variant with Will-O-Wisp.
- Celebi: Not super common but has its times.
-Nidoqueen: Seen at times and has access to both rocks and Toxic Spikes, thankfully it lacks a recovery move so it is best to get rocks up on turn 1 alongside it or prevent it with taunt if possible (if you lead Gliscor or Crobat) then keep attacking it as becomes a real pest if left untouched in the later stages of a game. Be aware that they can run a coverage move such as Fire Blast / Flamethrower very often so avoid keeping Forretress in. Skarmory wont be taking much from it on the other hand.
- Blissey: Very rare.
- Gyarados: Rare.
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IV. Anti-leads
These generally don't have to set up hazards however their primary purpose is to deny rocks to the enemy or simply come out on top vs most leads.
Dragonite: This is a very dangerous lead for good reason. It has a wide movepool and excellent offensive stats to boot. Dragon Dance, Mix sets and Choice Band Dragonite are seen in a lead position, making it hard to know exactly what's coming at ya. Specially defensive Hippowdon can generally take Draco Meteor followed up with Superpower however gets 2hkoed by Outrage so it is hard to know what to go for. Your best bet is to lay down rocks anyways as if it Outrages you can simply bring out your Steel-type such as Forretress or Skamory the next turn and then double once the Outrage is over to avoid being trapped by a Steel-type. If it mixed you get down rocks and slack off next turn. if it is Dragon Dance you simply Phase it out or switch into your Skarmory if you have one.
Machamp: The only threat this guy poses to stall is confusion. many stall orientated Pokemon can take repeated hits however with the confusion chance, it is hard to reliably beat it. The most common method to beat Machamp is to either go turn 1 right into an Intimidate Pokemon such as Gyarados if you have one or hit it for some damage turn 1 with your Hippowdon/Fort/Swampert followed by a switch if it went for D Punch. Do not switch into Celebi or Rotom turn one as even if you switch you end up taking Payback followed by a D Punch on your lead. Of course you can hope to not get confused more than once at a time and go for hazards then recover, attack then recover it etc however odds are it wont happen.
Raikou: Lead Raikou usually has Rash nature enabling it to use Aura Sphere, avoid letting Tyranitar take one of those hits. Hippowdon is the best lead vs it as it can comfortably take hits, set up rocks and recover the damage and force Raikou out. Swampert must watch out for the occassional HP Grass but otherwise walls it with relative ease. Blissey, Clefable can both get up rocks whilst specially defensive Roserade and Celebi can also either set up or retaliate with an attack of their own.
Staraptor: Hits like a truck, it is usually paired with Magnezone to lure Skarmory or other steels and U-turn out. Has 2 great STAB attacks with Close Combat, making it hard to safely switch into it with any consequences. That said, it cannot set up, locked into an attack and is weak to Stealth Rocks, meaning that if you get your switch in correct, you are in really good position.
Gallade: Do not let this thing set up too much or you can get swept. It can overwhelm stall quickly and even if you have a fast scarfer, chances are it is a Rotom and gets owned by Shadow Sneak. These typically run either 4 attacks or 3 attacks and Swords Dance. Expect an elemental punch at times as well, more often than not Ice Punch. Leaf Blade is not alien to this Pokemon as well however is more rare. Close Combat WILL maul Skarmory after a Swords Dance so keep that in mind. Crobat is an excellent counter and is relatively bulky. Best thing is to hit it asap for damage with physical attacks.
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V. Scouters
Scouters have a pivot move such as U-Turn or Baton Pass and generally have some serious firepower to boot and/or decent coverage.
These Pokemon are the most established scouters:
- Flygon: This will more often than not be a Choice Band variant. If you lead if with Skarmory, be aware as these are generally paired with a Magnezone. Hippowdon, Bronzong and Swampert have little to fear and can set up immediately. If you lead Gyarados it is best to switch into a bulky Ground-type or if you have nothing safe to waterfall.
- Zapdos: Zapdos will be either choice specs / Life Orb or leftovers. As you are using stall Hippowdon, Blissey, Rotom-A and Tyranitar can easily set up hazards / cripple the Zapdos. Swampert must be aware of the occasional Hidden Power Grass, scouting would be wise, especially if you have protect. Make SURE to calculate the damage of the first landed by Zapdos to be able to distinguish whether it is a Magnet variant or Choice Specs. If you lead Heatran or Celebi bringing out Blissey or Hippowdon is your best move. Worst case scenario you'll have to let Heatran bite the bullet and take a hefty amount however it is better than revealing your Rotom early on ESPECIALLY if it scarf.
- Jirachi: Scouter Jirachi is generally Choice Scarf so be wary for an early trick coming your way. Sometimes can be Stealth Rock 2 attacks and U-turn with a weakening berry. It is important to know that all LEAD Jirachi are NOT scouters; ie. Some lead Rachis will lack U-turn. A rule of thumb with your stall is to avoid exposing something like Heatran or something like Skarmory early on, more less trappable Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Blissey, Clefable, Zapdos, Roserade, bulky Jirachietc are better suited to deal with Jirachi.
- Celebi: Lead Celebi generally packs Occa Berry with U-turn, Leaf Storm coupled with Stealth Rock and Earth power. Very straight forward to deal with, no tricks.
- Scizor: Will be Choice Scarf almost always, however very bad lead and provides stall with easy entry hazards. Avoid keeping in Celebi if you led of with it as Pursuit wont be as fatal as U-turn.
- Azelf: Two words, big problem, choice band. Follow what was written for suicide lead Azelf.
- Gliscor: Poses quite a problem for stall. Has access to Taunt and is quite bulky meaning that it can force a switch too with ease. Best thing in this scenario would be to attack on turn 1 with an Ice-type attack if you have one then switch as it roosts of the damage (if you use Ice Fang), if you are Swampert simply repeatedly Ice Beam unless it used the rare lead Toxic. Grass-types will be a good switch-in or a Gyarados / Vaporeon / Suicune.
- Infernape: Choice Band / Scarf. Hippowdon and Swampert easily get down hazards without a sweat while Steel-types should generally switch into a Water-type such as Gyarados or Suicune. Avoid bringing in Starmie as it is vulnerable to U-turn and being trapped by pursuit.
Some of the above Pokemon's lead role overlaps in two or more of the lead categories however they are still relevant.
Closing words ~ When using stall, having a bad lead matchup will be quite a common occurence and the best you can do is minimise the amount of damage done in the initial phase. If you have to pull 2-3 switches to get back a position where you can set up with your lead so be it, stall isn't about hiding members, its about tossing down hazards asap with minimal damage inflicted on your Pokemon. Never try to sack a healthy Pokemon to save only Stealth Rock ie. bringing in Rotom-W which is your scarfer on a blatant Life Orb Starmie's Hydro Pump when the only hazard you have down is Stealth Rock and your Hippowdon is very healthy and has other chances to get it up again.
courtesy of the lovely BKC a gem written by user Scofield about lead matchup and how to make the most of your leads in any scenario.
http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue9/leads
Dealing with leads is one of the most important factors in a dpp ou game. This guide will go into some detail how to best come out of a matchup situation, and how to minimise any losses due to a bad matchup.
Before we discuss how best to deal with any lead scenario it is important to know the leads, both common and rare ones.
Leads can be split into four categories:
(1) Suicide / "One Off" leads
(2) Tank leads
(3) Scouters
(4) Anti-leads
II. Suicide leads
Let us deal with Suicide leads first. They are very problematic to face due to the fact that you have to either dispose of them by exerting enough pressure before they can explode / taunt and get more damage by forcing switches or time it well and switch into a Ghost-type if you lack the means to ohko/2hko it. This is quite hard to do when using stall. Their main objective is to get up hazards so preventing them from doing so wins the war! However at times you have to allow them to set up in order to either kill them before they cause further damage to your team by forcing switches (revealing Pokemon too early can play a serious role later on in the game) or get up your own hazards predicting the no TAUNT turn 1. Suicide leads include:
-Aerodactyl: Quite common
-Azelf: Very common lead
-Bronzong: This is rarely seen I the lead slot however be aware of the possibility of encountering one.
-Froslass: Has a niche in that it spinblocks and gets up spikes quickly.
-Heatran: Quite common lead
-Infernape: Old school, still seen at times.
-Mamoswine: Known as the "lead that no-one likes facing and comes when you least want it to" not super common but is seen enough to be known by everyone.
-Metagross: Very common lead
-Roserade: Quite common, good typing and ability to get up spikes and toxic spikes, sleep powder is a great tool early game.
-Smeargle: It either excels or dies and accomplishes nothing. Due to its immense number of moves, it is hard to pin point what exactly its purpose on the opposing team is. Anticipate early spore followed by hazards and perhaps explosion or endeavour + focus sash.
-Snorlax: Very rare / gimmick lead
Forretress doesn’t get a mention as you shouldn’t be using it as a lead anyways in this day and age! It ain't 2010 anymore son, move on.
Using STALL vs these leads
If you are using stall, dealing with these leads with the exception of Azelf should be straight forward. Hippowdon can set up rocks on Bronzong and Heatran, both of which will not explode on you turn 1. Metagross and Snorlax at times can explode turn 1 as Hippowdon is a key part of any stall team, if you have a skarmory or Forretress it would be ideal to go into them turn 1, however be wary for a Magnezone.Azelf paints a pretty big problem for stall, it has access to taunt forcing most stall lead Pokemon to switch-out, possesses Explosion as well which it can use at the flick of its wrist and sometimes carries Fire Blast or Psychic to punish Ghost and Steel-type switch-ins predicting its Explosion. The best move to do if your lead has no way to 2hko Azelf (Think Hippowdon / Swampert) is to switch out directly to a Ghost-type or something that can take an explosion such as Heatran / Skarmory / Forretress / Jirachi or a scarf Tyranitar. If you stay in the risk is huge as you Stealth Rock and if Azelf Taunts you, you now have to switch-out and your opponent is well aware at this stage and can simply double with little risk to catch off your Ghost or even Fire Blast to catch a Steel-type. It is small things like this that can make lead matchup a lot easier. Now if the Azelf is a choice variant and lacks rocks, you it would suck for you to switch out as it U-turns however it's almost impossible to know what kind of Azelf it is before-hand and taking unnecessary risks is foolish when using stall.
Aerodactyl lacks Explosion and has mediocre attack stat making it easier to deal with. However newer players may not anticipate some slightly more offensive versions rocking Power Herb with Sky Attack to ohko Machamp turn 1 which can be a huge blow! Don't get Aerodactyled. Keep in mind some Aerodactyl leads lack Focus Sash and carry Life Orb instead to ohko Zapdos and Dragonite leads. Hippowdon if holding Ice Fang can immediately go for it 2hkoin the Aerodactyl, otherwise it has to switch out to a bulky water of Forretress preferably. A point to note is typically a double switch back to Hippowdon from Forretress would be wise on turn 2 to scout for Magnezone or a spin blocker which also ensures rocks from Hippowdon are laid down. Swampert leads can 2hko with Ice Beam.
Bronzong thankfully is slow as hell and isn't as strong as Metagross making its explosion alot easier to take. It also lacks Taunt meaning that you will always get up hazards against it with relative ease. Things to look out for is Explosion which can still severely dent Hippowdon and Swampert leads and Trick; it may carry Grass Knot or Hidden power Fire for luring and hurting Swampert and Forretress respectively but its very rare. Hypnosis isn't to be forgotten as well, it can cripple an opposing Pokemon early on in the match however you should be able to get up a layer of hazards before it puts your lead to sleep.
Empoleon isn't a suicide lead however doesn't stick around for long most of the time. It generally runs Focus Sash of the inferior Chople Berry and has 3 attacks with Stealth Rock. Nothing complicated about this Pokemon, it sports decent sp.att making it hard to take neutral hits unless you are switching in a Blissey or Clefable. Best switchins are Blissey and Clefable who can get rocks down on it, Gyarados cant do much back if it is a defensive variant and isn't the best of switch ins. I mention this as I see alot of users bring in Gyarados as their primary switch-in on Empoleon. Celebi, Roserade and Shaymin can switch into a well timed Hydro pump and either set up hazards, cripple the Empoleon or damage it, however they cannot take more than two ice beams so caution must be observed.
Froslass ensures its hazards stay until it dies thanks to its typing making it no.1 priority to kill it. Due to its paper thin defences one would think it is an easy task however it holds Destiny Bond threatening your attackers life. Alot of players simply spam attacks hoping that they'd win the 50/50 war and kill the Froslass as it spikes twice (or Taunt + Spike). There is no easy way around this and depending on your stall team, it may be best to hit the first time with your lead breaking its focus sash, then comes the hard part. It will most likely go for Taunt turn 1 as you Earthquake / Brave Bird / Gyro Ball etc then you may be tempted to bring in your scarf Pokemon to outspeed and kill it next turn however this brings ALOT of problems. Not only do you reveal your revenge killer in the 2nd turn of the game but Froslass can Destiny Bond forcing you to switch yet again or use a non attacking move which isn't wise. Your scarf user is most likely something that Tyranitar and Scizor will love to trap so chances are you will lose the match before it begun. Hit turn 1 followed, if the Froslass hasn't Taunted turn 1 go for the Stealth Rock as it is very common based on the analysis I have done that players favour getting a second layer of spikes (as it in theory is the safest option with the most reward).
Heatran can vary from choice specs, life orb, choice scarf, focus sash and shuca berry. However it isn't too hard to deal with due to its predictable movepool, all sets will carry a Fire-type attack coupled with Earth Power and Explosion. Stealth Rock is a big possibility along with some form of Hidden power or rarely Dragon Pulse. Hippowdon can get rocks down easily however soe leads carry Will-o-wisp so if you lack a Pokemon with Heal Bell / Aromatherapy make sure you keep those rocks that you sacrificed Hippowdon's status for! Swampert must be wary of Life Orb boosted HP Grass while Blissey and other Pokemon with weak defense stats must avoid Explosion. Hippowdon and Tyranitar can set uprght of the bat whilst other leads may have to switch.
Some Infernape variants are choiced however these aren't suicide leads. The Suicide lead consists of Fake Out / Fire Attack / Close Combat and Stealth Rock. Some may carry Endeavour as well so be wary however in this day and age it is getting less usage. Hippowdon and Swampert can get up rocks and then threaten Infernape out with ease. If your lead is a steel-type a Water-type switch-in is perfect such as Gyarados, Suicune or Starmie. Lead Suicide Ape carries Focus Sash so Hippowdon is the perfect counter-lead.
Mamoswine also carries Endeavour however it is alot more common on it. Expect to see Ice Shard for priority coupled with Earthquake for dual STAB. Stealth Rock and either Endeavour or Stone Edge fill the last two slots. Bronzong, Hippowdon, Swampert, Skarmory and Forretress easily handle it. Very easy lead for stall teams...not so easy for offensive teams.
Metagross plays quite similarly to Azelf minus the special attacks part making Forretress and Skarmory perfect answers to it. In my humble opinion it isn't worth risking the firs turn OHKO on your Hippowdon if you have a Skarm or Fort on your team. Due to the increase of Protect on Swampert these days, Metagross is less inclined to Explode on it first turn in comparison to Hippowdon so feel free to SR turn 1 with Swampert. If you lead with a Heatran you might want to switxh nevertheless as Metagross will live any attack you throw most likely due to Occa Berry or Focus Sash and can ohko in return with the potential Earthquake as you lack Shuca Berry on a stall team and shouldnt be leading with Heatran anyways. If you lead with Rotom-H you can cripple with Will-o-wisp while Nidoqueen leads may have to switch as well on turn 2 after exchanging the almost guaranteed Stealth Rocks with Metagross.
Roserade is quite tricky...just like poison ivy. If you lead with a weather inducer, you've won half the battle by auto breaking its focus sash. You could bring in a sleep absorber if your lead isn't threatened by Roserade's Lead Storm or HP Fire and then double back to your lead. Aggressive plays such as turn 1 attacks on Roserade can be risky especially if it also attacks turn 1 however can work if predicted right; still avoid this unless your team somehow CANNOT in any way deal with Roserade. Revealing 2-3 Pokemon to deal with Roserade is fine, remember the goal of stall isn't to conceal as many Pokemon as you would do with offense.
Smeargle is the bane of stall. It has access to Spore and possesses decent speed making ti hard to stop it from setting up hazards. The best you can do is limit the amount of hazards laid down. You could let it spore your weather lead turn 1 if you are lazy and hope you wake up early but that is banking on RNG and while a turn 2 wake up allows you to kill Smeargle in exchange for only one hazard down, waking up on turn 5 once every hazard under the rainbow is thrown at you is a bad situation to be in. If you lead with Scarf Tar then you can simply bring it down to its sash as it either sets up Rocks or spores and then it dies to residual damage. Lead Gliscor can Taunt Smeargle and set up its on Rocks or pivot predicting a switch. A very bad lead for stall to face...thankfully its very rare. If you lead with Forry or Skarmory or Swampert you can let it spore you, burn a turn of sleep that same turn then bring in a spinner to bait the opponent to go into their Ghost-type and double to a Trapper. This can backfire it Smeargle decides to simply explode however this will limit it to ONLY one layer of hazards down which is what matters most.
Snorlax is fat and can carry Fire Blast and Crunch along with Self Destruct making it really annoying however Skarmory should be able to take it on well, Hippowdon and Swampert can get rocks up however risk getting ohkoed by Self Destruct. Trying to bait a Self Destruct after turn 1 is what you should be looking for unless you possess Skarmory who can just set up on it and not get 2hkoed by Fire Blast if it even has it. Despite it being an unofficial lead and not on the Smogon dex, it is used sometimes and is worth warning about. It carries Lum Berry so avoid trying to sleep or burn it.
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III. Tank Leads
When using stall, dealing with other bulky leads isn't as hard as offensive threats, however caution must be shown. Like your lead, their objective will be to set up hazards asap and perhaps phaze your lead to rack up residual damage or switch to a spinner / second entry hazard user. Whichever player can force the most switches in a stall matchup ends up with a huge advantage. Remember, a smart player will always get damage if they are about to get phased. Knowing how to play the spin and block game is what stall is about for the most part. I cannot teach everything there is know about stall in one guide however a typical team must have a way or two to deal with opposing bulky lategame sweepers such as Calm mind Clefable / CR Suicune / Snorlax / Jirachi etc.
Steps which a stall vs stall game is all about:
1) Entry hazard initial phase / scouting
2) Preserving hazards + forcing switches
3) Continuing laying down hazards + attempting to spin
4) Getting into position to eliminate opposing Pokemon whcih stop your lategame sweeper / Getting into position to stop the opposing lategame sweeper which you have come to know.
eg. Hippowdon vs Swampert
Turn 1 you both get down Stealth Rock.
Turn 2 a smart Swampert player will go for the Roar if they lack Hydro Pump (Next to NO lead Swampert run Hydro Pump so its safe) as Ice Beam does jack shit to Hippowdon, most of which are specially defensive these days. Therefore Hippowdon can get free damage here kind of baiting the Roar whilst losing nothing even if Swampert decides to Ice Beam.
Remember, just because someone leads with a bulky tankish lead, doesn't mean the rest of their team will follow suit. It is common to see Hippowdon as a lead to semi stall which has an offensive win condition or two.
Below is a list of the bulky leads you should be on the lookout for and how to best deal with them in general.
- Hippowdon: The premier lead for stall teams and semi-stall.
- Skarmory: Not too common in the lead position.
- Swampert: Old school lead, still seen now and then.
- Forretress: Less and less seen in the lead slot, and for good reason.
- Tyranitar: Very recently has it seen its lead usage skyrocket.
- Rotom-A: Very rare. If led with, it will be a bulky variant with Will-O-Wisp.
- Celebi: Not super common but has its times.
-Nidoqueen: Seen at times and has access to both rocks and Toxic Spikes, thankfully it lacks a recovery move so it is best to get rocks up on turn 1 alongside it or prevent it with taunt if possible (if you lead Gliscor or Crobat) then keep attacking it as becomes a real pest if left untouched in the later stages of a game. Be aware that they can run a coverage move such as Fire Blast / Flamethrower very often so avoid keeping Forretress in. Skarmory wont be taking much from it on the other hand.
- Blissey: Very rare.
- Gyarados: Rare.
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IV. Anti-leads
These generally don't have to set up hazards however their primary purpose is to deny rocks to the enemy or simply come out on top vs most leads.
Dragonite: This is a very dangerous lead for good reason. It has a wide movepool and excellent offensive stats to boot. Dragon Dance, Mix sets and Choice Band Dragonite are seen in a lead position, making it hard to know exactly what's coming at ya. Specially defensive Hippowdon can generally take Draco Meteor followed up with Superpower however gets 2hkoed by Outrage so it is hard to know what to go for. Your best bet is to lay down rocks anyways as if it Outrages you can simply bring out your Steel-type such as Forretress or Skamory the next turn and then double once the Outrage is over to avoid being trapped by a Steel-type. If it mixed you get down rocks and slack off next turn. if it is Dragon Dance you simply Phase it out or switch into your Skarmory if you have one.
Machamp: The only threat this guy poses to stall is confusion. many stall orientated Pokemon can take repeated hits however with the confusion chance, it is hard to reliably beat it. The most common method to beat Machamp is to either go turn 1 right into an Intimidate Pokemon such as Gyarados if you have one or hit it for some damage turn 1 with your Hippowdon/Fort/Swampert followed by a switch if it went for D Punch. Do not switch into Celebi or Rotom turn one as even if you switch you end up taking Payback followed by a D Punch on your lead. Of course you can hope to not get confused more than once at a time and go for hazards then recover, attack then recover it etc however odds are it wont happen.
Raikou: Lead Raikou usually has Rash nature enabling it to use Aura Sphere, avoid letting Tyranitar take one of those hits. Hippowdon is the best lead vs it as it can comfortably take hits, set up rocks and recover the damage and force Raikou out. Swampert must watch out for the occassional HP Grass but otherwise walls it with relative ease. Blissey, Clefable can both get up rocks whilst specially defensive Roserade and Celebi can also either set up or retaliate with an attack of their own.
Staraptor: Hits like a truck, it is usually paired with Magnezone to lure Skarmory or other steels and U-turn out. Has 2 great STAB attacks with Close Combat, making it hard to safely switch into it with any consequences. That said, it cannot set up, locked into an attack and is weak to Stealth Rocks, meaning that if you get your switch in correct, you are in really good position.
Gallade: Do not let this thing set up too much or you can get swept. It can overwhelm stall quickly and even if you have a fast scarfer, chances are it is a Rotom and gets owned by Shadow Sneak. These typically run either 4 attacks or 3 attacks and Swords Dance. Expect an elemental punch at times as well, more often than not Ice Punch. Leaf Blade is not alien to this Pokemon as well however is more rare. Close Combat WILL maul Skarmory after a Swords Dance so keep that in mind. Crobat is an excellent counter and is relatively bulky. Best thing is to hit it asap for damage with physical attacks.
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V. Scouters
Scouters have a pivot move such as U-Turn or Baton Pass and generally have some serious firepower to boot and/or decent coverage.
These Pokemon are the most established scouters:
- Flygon: This will more often than not be a Choice Band variant. If you lead if with Skarmory, be aware as these are generally paired with a Magnezone. Hippowdon, Bronzong and Swampert have little to fear and can set up immediately. If you lead Gyarados it is best to switch into a bulky Ground-type or if you have nothing safe to waterfall.
- Zapdos: Zapdos will be either choice specs / Life Orb or leftovers. As you are using stall Hippowdon, Blissey, Rotom-A and Tyranitar can easily set up hazards / cripple the Zapdos. Swampert must be aware of the occasional Hidden Power Grass, scouting would be wise, especially if you have protect. Make SURE to calculate the damage of the first landed by Zapdos to be able to distinguish whether it is a Magnet variant or Choice Specs. If you lead Heatran or Celebi bringing out Blissey or Hippowdon is your best move. Worst case scenario you'll have to let Heatran bite the bullet and take a hefty amount however it is better than revealing your Rotom early on ESPECIALLY if it scarf.
- Jirachi: Scouter Jirachi is generally Choice Scarf so be wary for an early trick coming your way. Sometimes can be Stealth Rock 2 attacks and U-turn with a weakening berry. It is important to know that all LEAD Jirachi are NOT scouters; ie. Some lead Rachis will lack U-turn. A rule of thumb with your stall is to avoid exposing something like Heatran or something like Skarmory early on, more less trappable Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Blissey, Clefable, Zapdos, Roserade, bulky Jirachietc are better suited to deal with Jirachi.
- Celebi: Lead Celebi generally packs Occa Berry with U-turn, Leaf Storm coupled with Stealth Rock and Earth power. Very straight forward to deal with, no tricks.
- Scizor: Will be Choice Scarf almost always, however very bad lead and provides stall with easy entry hazards. Avoid keeping in Celebi if you led of with it as Pursuit wont be as fatal as U-turn.
- Azelf: Two words, big problem, choice band. Follow what was written for suicide lead Azelf.
- Gliscor: Poses quite a problem for stall. Has access to Taunt and is quite bulky meaning that it can force a switch too with ease. Best thing in this scenario would be to attack on turn 1 with an Ice-type attack if you have one then switch as it roosts of the damage (if you use Ice Fang), if you are Swampert simply repeatedly Ice Beam unless it used the rare lead Toxic. Grass-types will be a good switch-in or a Gyarados / Vaporeon / Suicune.
- Infernape: Choice Band / Scarf. Hippowdon and Swampert easily get down hazards without a sweat while Steel-types should generally switch into a Water-type such as Gyarados or Suicune. Avoid bringing in Starmie as it is vulnerable to U-turn and being trapped by pursuit.
Some of the above Pokemon's lead role overlaps in two or more of the lead categories however they are still relevant.
Closing words ~ When using stall, having a bad lead matchup will be quite a common occurence and the best you can do is minimise the amount of damage done in the initial phase. If you have to pull 2-3 switches to get back a position where you can set up with your lead so be it, stall isn't about hiding members, its about tossing down hazards asap with minimal damage inflicted on your Pokemon. Never try to sack a healthy Pokemon to save only Stealth Rock ie. bringing in Rotom-W which is your scarfer on a blatant Life Orb Starmie's Hydro Pump when the only hazard you have down is Stealth Rock and your Hippowdon is very healthy and has other chances to get it up again.
courtesy of the lovely BKC a gem written by user Scofield about lead matchup and how to make the most of your leads in any scenario.
http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue9/leads
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