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NOC Deathnote NOC Mafia - GAME OVER, Postgame in #714

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Also it seems more likely in my mind that disguise artist aka twin would've targeted josh as opposed to hitmonleet/last mafia since even if BG fails on merlin, disguise/identity exchanger still work, so it's very likely that either twin/IE or both targeted josh to prevent him from inevitably killing merlin. That and josh revealing it was a fakeclaim makes it all the more suspicious.

King_ Asek pancake Gronkasaurus Rex acidphoenix Mithril Hitmonleet MoodyCloud thoughts?
 
Haruno said:
Actually upon rereading your post about the merlin claim, I can definitely see it as plausible. Especially since josh was so hard on claiming he was inspected and since mafia honestly does not even need to kill merlin right away since leaving merlin alive (if it is hitmon) gives them a free myslynch. Also I refuse to believe that blazade made mafia not have some competent player with josh being counted as one whereas AG + hitmon + moody/asek sounds far more sketch than say AG + josh/hitmon + moody.

unvote
vote josh

Also if we do not have a 100% vote on light (you're fucking retarded if you think josh/hitmon are light) then I propose that we purposely myslynch a village and have them get janitor'd since it makes it much harder for mafia to guess when there's an extra role in game.
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Disregarding whether or not I think this is a good idea (and to be honest having an alive unchecked player vs a dead unchecked player seems no different to me as far as the mafia guess is concerned unless I am missing something), the logistics of this seem challenging. From looking at the role list, the Janitor has to target the person the night before they are lynched in order for their ability to work. So we would have to agree on what villager we were lynching while hoping the mafia somehow doesn't kill them during the night and have the janitor target that person (while also hoping the janitor doesn't die themselves or get hooked).

This also gives the mafia an additional day of inspection which I can't say seems like a good idea to me since the mafia has to know two of the eight if the Josh lynch is correct (Hitmonleet as Merlin, Asek as BG) along with a likely third from the inspection N1. They will then have a N2 inspection and now you are proposing to also give them a N3 insepction since we would be intentionally mislynching. Assuming the mafia only hits Asek / Hitmonleet tonight and doesn't kill anybody N3, they still have 3 inspections completed out of the 6 (realistically 5 since we are mislynching) people alive. On top of that they will have two guesses. The more I type this response the more ridiculous this plan sounds to me. Considering this is the second anti-town plan you have put forward, I am starting to have serious doubts about your town alignment.
 
Mithril said:
Disregarding whether or not I think this is a good idea (and to be honest having an alive unchecked player vs a dead unchecked player seems no different to me as far as the mafia guess is concerned unless I am missing something), the logistics of this seem challenging. From looking at the role list, the Janitor has to target the person the night before they are lynched in order for their ability to work. So we would have to agree on what villager we were lynching while hoping the mafia somehow doesn't kill them during the night and have the janitor target that person (while also hoping the janitor doesn't die themselves or get hooked).

This also gives the mafia an additional day of inspection which I can't say seems like a good idea to me since the mafia has to know two of the eight if the Josh lynch is correct (Hitmonleet as Merlin, Asek as BG) along with a likely third from the inspection N1. They will then have a N2 inspection and now you are proposing to also give them a N3 insepction since we would be intentionally mislynching. Assuming the mafia only hits Asek / Hitmonleet tonight and doesn't kill anybody N3, they still have 3 inspections completed out of the 6 (realistically 5 since we are mislynching) people alive. On top of that they will have two guesses. The more I type this response the more ridiculous this plan sounds to me. Considering this is the second anti-town plan you have put forward, I am starting to have serious doubts about your town alignment.
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?____? It's easier to PoE when you have 9players/roles as opposed to 8players/9roles especially if we lynch someone that has almost no chance of being confirmed alignment. Hell I'm outright willing to volunteer as the myslynch. There's also the possibility with dead inspect or if we pubclaim who we'd myslynch then mafia would waste/use their inspect on said person of our choice. This is of course a contigency incase we're unable to figure out who light is from results, but it's a viable counterplay as opposed to a straight up non janitor'd myslynch.

Also Blazade speaking of final guesses, is it simultaneously (assume merlin is already dead) so for example we have
US/cop
yeti/disguise
DLE/watcher

and the final guess is
US/watcher
yeti/disguise
dle/cop

Would they all live and mafia get a second chance to guess or would yeti subsequently die before they get a secondary guess? This matters much more when we have a larger living playerbase when final guess happens.
 
you're on drugs if you think merlin day 1 claim is anti town btw. lol.

as far as scum is concerned
hitmon/josh merlin/hooker. Outplay the coinflip.
asek as confirmed town
Moody as possible light
i honestly can't say shit about anyone else LOL. No one else has done anything really worth considering since josh has been leading the discussion for the majority of the game and since it seems likely he's mafia now so er what. Identity exchanger better 100% target hitmonleet tonight if josh flips as scum.
 
Haruno said:
?____? It's easier to PoE when you have 9players/roles as opposed to 8players/9roles especially if we lynch someone that has almost no chance of being confirmed alignment. Hell I'm outright willing to volunteer as the myslynch. There's also the possibility with dead inspect or if we pubclaim who we'd myslynch then mafia would waste/use their inspect on said person of our choice. This is of course a contigency incase we're unable to figure out who light is from results, but it's a viable counterplay as opposed to a straight up non janitor'd myslynch.

Also Blazade speaking of final guesses, is it simultaneously (assume merlin is already dead) so for example we have
US/cop
yeti/disguise
DLE/watcher

and the final guess is
US/watcher
yeti/disguise
dle/cop

Would they all live and mafia get a second chance to guess or would yeti subsequently die before they get a secondary guess? This matters much more when we have a larger living playerbase when final guess happens.
Click to expand...

Except its realistically still 9 players/9 roles. Just because they technically won't need to guess that player any more, they still need to figure out there alliance for the game to be solved. Regardless of whether or not that player is alive, they were as a player with an unknown role out of the remaining possibilities.
 
https://books.google.com/books?id=c...=is matching harder with more answers&f=false

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

relevant part, "when making matching questions, to make it more difficult, you add more answers than questions. The more answers there are, the harder it is to narrow things down to a correct answer. This also forces students to make a choice on the last stem as opposed to having an easy match at the end."

So yes, having a janitor'd town is superior to having everyone alive at the end.
 
Mithril said:
Except its realistically still 9 players/9 roles. Just because they technically won't need to guess that player any more, they still need to figure out there alliance for the game to be solved. Regardless of whether or not that player is alive, they were as a player with an unknown role out of the remaining possibilities.
Click to expand...
read above post
 
Haruno said:
read above post
Click to expand...

That is only true if there are actually more choices than answers. The player being dead doesn't remove them from the puzzle. There are still 9 unknown players and 9 roles. Just because we janitor a player doesn't magically make them cease to exist.

Yes, if you have 20 possibilities for the ten players it is harder, but janitor doesn't cause that to happen.
 
??? There will be more answers than players remaining no matter how you look at it. And like I said, this is a contigency in case you fail to lynch light which knowing NOC track record this will most likely be the case.
 
Dead players may not be inspected or otherwise targeted.

Merlin's extra guess occurs whenever he dies, between the phase he dies and the next one. This means if he dies during the final guess, it is sequential rather than simultaneous.
 
Unvote Hitmonleet

Not voting Josh yet but Haruno + Asek town would make so much more sense than Josh + anyone

Edit: accidentally sent this. Don't ban me please!

Continued: and Haruno / Asek's argument actually makes sense when compared to Josh's
 
Im going to sleep now I'll touch base in 7-8 hours. I need to read this haruno / mithril thing in detail tomorrow as im not quite sure whats going on there
 
Your plan only makes sense if you do not believe we have any chance to vote for light. If we are guaranteed to miss him D3, then yes 2 players 3 roles is a better spot than 2 players 2 roles. Otherwise, 3 players 3 roles and 2 players 3 roles with the third player dead and no role revealed are functionally identical. In both scenarios there are 3 unknown roles and 3 players, just in one of the cases the mafia is not required to guess the third players role. However in both cases there are 6 permutations.

1a, 2b, 3c vs 1a, 2b
1a, 2c, 3c vs 1a, 2c
1b, 2a, 3c vs 1b, 2a
1b, 2c, 3a vs 1b, 2c
1c, 2a, 3b vs 1c, 2a
1c, 2b, 3a bs 1c, 2a

Now obviously if we are guaranteed to miss light and drop to 2 town players regardless, then 2 players 3 roles (6 permutations) is better than 2 players 2 roles (4 permutations), outside of the fact that the mafia gained an additional guess that night and an additional inspection. But assuming we don't hit light D3 the game is basically 100% over regardless.
 
If you think I'm scum together with Josh when I'm pushing him while he's townread by everyone your reasoning might've taken a wrong turn. Josh maybe you're pissed but saying "wow you guys are bad I quit gg" isn't helping your case nor is it helping town so if you want to convince us you're not scum that's just not the right way to do it.

This looks like a 50/50 but while I find Josh's reponse shady I also agree that should he be scum and asek/hitmonleet be bg/merlin, town would still be in a really bad position even after lynching Josh so I might put my vote back on hitmonleet and bet my money on the possibility of town winning.
The point that Josh was the most likely person for twin to target still stands but I don't believe town will win if merlin and bg were just actually outed so I'm pretty much looking the other way and going for the only route where town stands a good chance of winning aka hitmonleet not being merlin.

Josh your defense has been mostly being salty so if you're town please don't quit attempting to set things right.
 
Everyone who has played with me a lot knows I love to gambit and I lie a shit ton as townie which is typically not a popular choice. I planned on claiming merlin from the second I signed up for this game, and by acting super sure of my scumreads I knew I could pull it off. Texas picked up on that a bit and faked some shade, I'm completely in awe people haven't picked up on this shit. Ultimately I'm playing a game assuming everyone has meta experience with me and is generally competent. Asek is usually a smarter player and idfk with mithril I have a reason to townread him but it's mostly scummy. This game percival, watcher/tracker, and merlin have been stupidly obvious and it really hurt town. Town isn't gonna win at this point and I'll explain why we lost in postgame. The only way town wins is by lynching one scum rn and leaving Hitmonleet alive as a newbie to choke final guesses - yesterday if scum had a good reader watcher/tracker was caught and they attempted the 50/50 so both are dead tn, I'm dead due to inspection, blah blah poe. Town lost due to how kill mechanics are and nobody seeing that is baffling.

My goal coming into this game was to protect merlin. Town couldn't have made that harder. Lynch moody and if he flips scum town has a CHANCE. Lynch me or Hitmonleet and we've lost even though Hitmonleet is caught scum. And man, I have harsh words for a lot of you in postgame.
 
Josh said:
Everyone who has played with me a lot knows I love to gambit and I lie a shit ton as townie which is typically not a popular choice. I planned on claiming merlin from the second I signed up for this game, and by acting super sure of my scumreads I knew I could pull it off. Texas picked up on that a bit and faked some shade, I'm completely in awe people haven't picked up on this shit. Ultimately I'm playing a game assuming everyone has meta experience with me and is generally competent. Asek is usually a smarter player and idfk with mithril I have a reason to townread him but it's mostly scummy. This game percival, watcher/tracker, and merlin have been stupidly obvious and it really hurt town. Town isn't gonna win at this point and I'll explain why we lost in postgame. The only way town wins is by lynching one scum rn and leaving Hitmonleet alive as a newbie to choke final guesses - yesterday if scum had a good reader watcher/tracker was caught and they attempted the 50/50 so both are dead tn, I'm dead due to inspection, blah blah poe. Town lost due to how kill mechanics are and nobody seeing that is baffling.

My goal coming into this game was to protect merlin. Town couldn't have made that harder. Lynch moody and if he flips scum town has a CHANCE. Lynch me or Hitmonleet and we've lost even though Hitmonleet is caught scum. And man, I have harsh words for a lot of you in postgame.
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Doesn't excuse bad play on your end mate
 
And you assuming mafia made every optimal play is also confusing unless you yourself are mafia. Though in all fairness we got shafted with a twin mistarget + losing vig. Texas death is a coinflip on who it benefited more. Overall it's still more likely you're scum than hitmonleet based off actions and unfortunately for you, your rep isn't good enough to pull fake claims as town.
 
Yes another random shitty reply

Asek since you're all knowing
Explain how claiming bg claiming Hitmonleet is merlin and claiming I'm scum helps town win. From your perspective you've outed merlin and yourself. So to be clear, your game resume is idling the entire d1 and gamethrowing d2. Excellent.

Hey at everyone calling it a 50/50: I still feel like nobody understands this game. You lynch correctly in the 50/50: con fucking grats. Scum now kills merlin for free and gets to rand more people wig t he minimal poe left. Vig got randed n1; if merlin was in me and Hitmonleet the game is over. It's not.

My only mistake this game was assuming people were more competent. OMGUS OMGUS OMGUS. Twin and texas are the only two townies who helped towards towns wincon and that's sad. the fact some of the best current noc players on smogon think aura and me were SvS says enough.
 
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