Deceptive UU Trick Room team

[parshimers]

edits in red
With this team, i try and combat what i usually see as one of the main problems with trick room- once someone knows you're going to try and get it up, they try to stop you with a taunter. Too many people just blindly walk into a taunt with a fairly obvious trick roomer on their team, and not being able to get trick room up without shuffling through half your team is a really big problem. This isnt as big of a problem in UU, but a taunt nidoqueen, or persian/electrode, can be a real pain. I attempt to deal with these more effectively by trying to lure them out, and kill them to make way for my trick roomers, and then finally the powerhouses that make trick room teams so fun to play.
Keep in mind this is a wi-fi d/p team, so no moves from the platinum move tutor can be used unfortunately (reaaaally wish i could use trick + choice scarf on froslass to better deal with taunt electrode :< )

At a glance

Crafty Tricks - Banette

Banette @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Insomnia /Frisk?
31 Spd/31 Atk (or SpAtk.. depends on set)
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP - Jolly(+Spd, -SpAtk) (could be timid too, once again depends on set.)
- Trick Room
- Taunt/(HP Fighting?)
- Trick
- Shadow Claw/(Shadow Ball?)

General idea here is to either taunt them before they can do whatever setup they're gonna do( rain dance, etc..), or better yet trick a choice scarf onto it and cripple it. Insomnia allows for repeated use, but Frisk is a guarantee that you both wont be exchanging your choice items( although a choice scarf is a real drag in trick room, even for a banded/speced pokemon). Both have their merits.
The Trick Roomers

Uxie @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
31 Spd IV
252 HP (maybe cut a bit out of here?..)/ 1xx Def/ xx SpDef/ xx Spd - Bold(perhaps Timid?)
- Trick Room
- U-Turn
- Yawn
- Psychic

This is my preffered trick room user, because it usually has the bulk to pull it off more than once. The moveset is fairly obvious for the task - Trick room and get the hell out of there. Some people like to yawn to force a switch, I usually find it gratuitous. You need to trick room, and then U-turn as fast as possible, to avoid being taunted. Yawn does have it's uses though, especially on such a bulky pokemon.

Slowking @ Leftovers
3 Spd IV
212 HP/44 Def/252 SpA (kinda up in the air about this... thinking more def could be nice)- Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)

- Trick Room
- Slack Off
- Surf
- HP Electric

This is a very versatile pokemon, being able to function equally well as a physical wall, Trick Roomer, and special attacker once Trick Room is in play. Slack off can really infuriate many foes, especially if they're struggling to take it down after Trick room has subsided. Surf is surprisingly powerful, and is usually enough to take down any physical walls that may pose a problem. HP electric is mainly for pokemon that would try and come in and absorb surf, like milotic.

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
0 Spd IV
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA
- Trick Room
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Another very versatile pokemon, and one of the few non-psychic Trick Roomers. Good all-around in everything, can take hits as well as dish them out, so anyone attempting to set up on this will regret it when they eat a super-effective attack. Trace is a wonderful ability, hurting pokemon like Arcanine, and heaven help your opponent if you manage to switch this in on Shedinja.
The pain.

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability : Rock Head
0 Spd IV
252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def - Brave (+Atk, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Double-Edge

This thing is an absolute beast in trick room. There are almost no pokemon that can outspeed it in trick room, and very few who can survive even one hit from him. 160 base attack with zero set up is simply amazing. Watching him OHKO 4 pokemon in a row is truly a sight to behold. Marowak isnt a pure glass cannon though, as some would lead you to believe. It can come in with relative ease on physical attacks, and can often even survive physical attacks it is weak to, and return the favor with a OHKO Earthquake. The given moveset gives pretty good type coverage- it can hit neutral on almost everything, and with a base attack like that, you dont need to do much more most of the time.

Camerupt @ Life Orb
3 Spd IV
Ability: Solid Rock
100 HP/ 158 Atk/ 252 SpA
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- HP Grass
- Explosion

A very powerful special sweeper. Fire/Ground is a pretty good attacking combination, and when you back it up with a Life orb and 105 SpAtk, it becomes even more devastating. HP Grass takes care of any bulky waters that decide they can wall this, and once it's task is done, it will most likely manage to kill a pokemon with a powerful Explosion.

--------------------------

Threats I've noticed so far

Taunt leads faster than Froslass - these can be a pain in the ass, and I really wish I could take care of them with a Trick + Choice Scarf Froslass. Fortunately, they are relatively rare in UU. Not really valid with froslass gone but... the only lead i can think of that will ruin trick banette in d/p is switcheroo persian. trick linoone/furret would suck too but... those are incredibly rare.

Trick + Scarf leads - While not as completely crippling as totally shutting froslass down, forcing it into only one move is annoying, and forces you to sacrifice spiking. It still will be able to taunt to force a switch, though. This is still bad, but Frisk can mitigate it.

Increased priority bracket moves- Im looking at you, extremespeed arcanine. These can shut down a sweep fairly quickly, especially when you consider both marowak and ursaring really only have the bulk to survive a switch-in. Porygon2 takes care of this almost completely.

Other Trick Room teams - this really can start a mind game, who's going to use trick room first? and who's going to bring out their sweepers first? It's an easy game for either team to lose. Always a threat but, Slowking wins over the more popular Slowbro, hopefully allowing you to take out any possible Marowaks as well.
So, there you go, RMT!

 

[Wyzra]

There are several problems with this team.

First of all, your lead and every Trick Roomer are weak to Dark and Ghost-type moves, most notably Pursuit. That's a problem in UU with Absol and Honchkrow running around, and most Gallades packing Shadow Sneak or Night Slash.

Second, Marowak and Ursaring have almost identical coverage. So you might want to add another sweeper. It's definitely a good idea to go for physical, so may I suggest Muk, who I've used successfully, Torterra, Azumarill, or Honchkrow, who boasts mixed coverage and a priority for use when TR wears off. You may even find a slightly faster sweeper like Gallade or Blaziken usable, since with 0 Speed IVs and a -Speed nature, they will have lower speed than most normal Pokemon.

Change Slowking for Slowbro, as he learns identical moves but has higher Def.

Finally, I don't like Froslass here. It slows your start a little, giving your opponent time to set up and prepare. It's teamslot could be better used for someone who can be used outside the Trick Room or maybe another TR sweeper like I listed above.

It's a team with some flaws but also potential. I have no experience playing Wifi, as I quit playing the actual game a long time ago, so please read my comments modulo that consideration.

 

[Jigo]

@Wyzra- this is an UU team.

what's with the 127/125 EVs on Uxie and Slowking?

 

[parshimers]

what's with the 127/125 EVs on Uxie and Slowking?

simply to split the difference between the two tasks i expect of them, 127+125 = 252

First of all, your lead and every Trick Roomer are weak to Dark and Ghost-type moves, most notably Pursuit. That's a problem in UU with Absol and Honchkrow running around, and most Gallades packing Shadow Sneak or Night Slash.

mmm i can see that being a problem, never considered it before.. pursuit shouldnt be too much of an issue, but shadow sneak would really suck. what trick roomers are there that arent psychic typed and UU, though?

Second, Marowak and Ursaring have almost identical coverage. So you might want to add another sweeper. It's definitely a good idea to go for physical, so may I suggest Muk, who I've used successfully, Torterra, Azumarill, or Honchkrow, who boasts mixed coverage and a priority for use when TR wears off. You may even find a slightly faster sweeper like Gallade or Blaziken usable, since with 0 Speed IVs and a -Speed nature, they will have lower speed than most normal Pokemon.

i really like the idea of muk, i'll probably add that in over ursaring.

Change Slowking for Slowbro, as he learns identical moves but has higher Def.

i picked slowking for that exact reason though; i have no special sweepers, so i need something to fight against miltank for example.

Finally, I don't like Froslass here. It slows your start a little, giving your opponent time to set up and prepare. It's teamslot could be better used for someone who can be used outside the Trick Room or maybe another TR sweeper like I listed above.

mm.. what else would fill it's niche though? leading with uxie doesnt work very well; taunt leads just shut you down completely. the spikes take a little time to set up, but at the same time it isnt like your opponent can set up with it's speedy taunt flying around.

 

[Wyzra]

Uxie makes a decent lead, having decent speed, threatening Taunting Crobats with Psychic, and ability to U-turn. A good non-psychic Trick Room Pokemon is Porygon2. He's got good defenses and an interesting ability, that could help against a guy like Houndoom. Kecleon is underestimated but admittedly outclassed. Finally, Solrock could make a good suicide lead, learning Trick Room, Stealth Rock, and Explosion, as well as a STAB Stone Edge or Rock Slide for Crobat.

Of the three Trick Roomers, I question Banette's viability the most. Uxie could do a similar thing with U-turn. Give him lots of speed so that he can get in Trick Room FAST when it's down, and then have a slow U-turn to transition seamlessly to the next guy, absorbing the damage for your relatively frail attackers.

Froslass is alright, if you find you have no holes elsewhere. But another sweeper might be well-appreciated.

Small Changes:
Froslass should get Ice Beam over "Focus Sash"
Consider Hammer Arm over Fire Punch on Ursaring: more damage, good typing, and its side effect can be beneficial. Besides, Marowak has Fire Punch already.

 

[recess69]

mmm i can see that being a problem, never considered it before.. pursuit shouldnt be too much of an issue, but shadow sneak would really suck. what trick roomers are there that arent psychic typed and UU, though?

To fix up this pursuit weakness you could always switch one of you're psychic Trick roomers for a Porygon2, the one from the analysis would be good:

Porygon2@leftovers
Quiet
ability: Trace
EVs: 252 hp/ 120 def/ 136 spa
-Trick Room
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

This would fix up you're pursuit weakness and be a good counter to those Extremespede arcanines more so if they are intimidate and not flash fire.

EDIT: nvm was beaten to the post :D

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I don't like the idea of minimizing Uxie's speed, it is a waste of that 95 base. I know this is a Trick Room team, but Uxie isn't going to be making use of it to sweep. It is meant to be taking the hits to set up for your slow sweepers. There are a good number of bulky tanks in UU that fall below Uxie's untouched 226 speed but would outrun minimum speed versions. The reason I'm stressing this point is this: When Uxie sets up Trick Room, with your setup it is more likely to be going first with U-Turn. Guess who's going to be taking the incoming hit? Not the one you want to be taking it that's for sure.

I also don't like max HP on Ursaring. Marowak benefits most from max HP, but not Ursaring. With the combination of an already healthy base and the fact that you're taking a fixed percentage of HP damage anyway, I feel that Ursaring benefits much more by focusing on one of its defenses. I'd suggest physical as that is where most priority attacks come from.

A few final points on the EVs. As has already been said, 127 / 125 spreads are nonsensical (you lose a stat point). Change them to 128 / 124 if anything. Banette doesn't need all that Special Attack as it isn't using any special moves. You might as well put those EVs into HP or defenses; it's not like Banette benefits in any way from being at 1HP, and Focus sash is unreliable.

 

[Altair]

I'm not very experienced with Trick room teams, but Banette looks like it would be a dead weight on your team. If it's coming out late game, it's susceptible to SR, spikes, sandstorm, or hail. I suggest You either replace it with P2 or a specs Glaceon, which would give your team a destructive special sweeper in Trick Room. Anyways this a very good team and good luck with it!

 

[Garganator]

I agree with everyone that Banette is death weight in that team. Porygon2 is the best bet here, with Slowking and Uxie easily absorbing fighting attacks. You should think about Solrock in a place of Slowking or Uxie. The reason is simple - CB Staraptor deals a shitload damage on anything in that team and having explosion user would be nice to deal with some really annoying walls. If Staraptor switches in when Trick Room ends - you're in trouble. So I think it's not a bad idea.

As I love Ursaring, but I think his the weakest link here. His really weak to priority attacks and it hits hard, true, but it needs Swords Dance to get through defensive freaks like Tangrowth, Regirock, Physically Defensive Registeel or Steelix, which can easily deal with you. I know that using Swords Dance is risky, but it will help you alot here. Probably in a place of Fire Punch, because you hit every steel type in UU for super-effective damage with Earthquake and without Skarmory/Bronzong you don't need it. Or do the same with Marowak - I prefer Marowak, has the same power and he doesn't have any nasty status on itself. So I think that you should try that Camerupt:

Camerupt @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
EVS: 100 HP/ 158 Atk/252 SpA

0 Speed IVs Quiet Nature
~ Eruption / HP Grass
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Explosion

It hits like a truck, Camerupt is such a beast under Trick Room. From my experience I know that many teams are Fire/Earth weak, so it deals quite a punch. 100 HP EVs for little bulk, with those attacking EVs you OHKO even the bulkiest physical wall, which doesn't resist heavily normal-type attack. Or if you want mix-sweeper, I'm using this guy by myself and it's quite effective:

Cacturne @ Life Orb
EVS: 100 HP/ 158 Atk/252 SpA

0 Speed IVs Quiet Nature
~ SuperPower
~ Dark Pulse
~ Energy Ball / Grass Knot
~ Destiny Bond

The idea is simple - just switch in and hit as hard as possible. Dark+Grass+Fight has great coverage only resisted by Toxicroak in UU. 158 Atk EVs are enough to OHKO offensive Tauros with Intimidiate factored in by SuperPower. Destiny Bond is great move, when you're ready to sacrifice Cacturne. With 103 Speed under Trick Room you're outspeeding almost anything. The difference between Grass Knot and Energy Ball is in OHKO on Milotic (Grass Knot) or Lanturn (Energy Ball). I'm using Energy Ball, in UU it's a bit more reliable. Rest of EVs went to HP to give him a little bit of bulk. But if you think that you don't need those HP EVs, just max out attack. Your choice ;). Cacturne is also a solid option, because that team may have problems not only with Staraptor, but with also SD/CB Absol, dealing heavy damage on anything in that team with Sucker Punch.

I hope that helped you a bit. Cheers.

 

[Imran]

OK, so people have currently picked up on the 4x Ghost / Dark weak that you have here, now I think the obvious solution to this would be to add a different Trick Roomer in the place of one of these, most probably Slowking, and I will explain my reasoning in a second. The Trick Roomer that I am going to suggest is Porygon 2, he does similar in the fact that he will still carry that all important electirc attack and needed bulk, but is immune to psychic and will hopefully be bulky enough to get off a Trick room and then retreat against Dark type moves, so here is the set:

Porygon 2 @ Leftovers
Quiet Nature / Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA
IVs: 0 Spe
~ Trick Room
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Recover

I have already explained the set, so it should be pretty simple, Bolt Beam gives you decent type coverage, Recover when nessecary and most importantly Trick Room to support the rest of your mons, NOW this brings us to perhaps what I think is the second problem in your team. You really do not have the offensive firepower that you really need here, well, you have the firspower, but not enough of it. 3 Trick Roomers yeet only two who abuse it? You need more offense than that.

I am going to therefore suggest that you put Uxie (or Banette) as your lead, make it a Trick Scarf varient that outspeeds Electrode if you really want to do it that way ^_^ although simply outspeeding Crobat will probably be enough, Electrode leads are not common. Trick could easily go over Yawn. I would also suggest Stealth Rock over Psychic, you'll need it, as you will see below. I can give you the nessecary EV investament should you wish through PM, if you can't work them out yourself. The reason I am suggesting this is because Froslass is redundant on your team, all she does is lay down spikes, and possibly takes out one mon, something that Bannette aims to do anyway. A spiker is a waste of a moveslot on a Trick Room team, as they are primarily offensive, and you really could do with the back up of another sweeper. So, here's what I am going to suggest:

Azumarill @ Life Orb
Brave Nature / Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
~ Waterfall
~ Aqua Jet
~ Double Edge
~ Brick Break / Focus Punch

Again another physical sweeper, mainly because you don't want Chansey to come in on a Special sweeper and waste your precious turns of Trick Room, Marowak and Azumarill deal with Steelix anyway, Bulky Waters will be your worst Fear, but Urasring should be able to handle them, I think this gives you a pretty solid Offensive core. I am suggesting keeping Aqua Jet for things that _may_ be slower than you, but mostly because it's a nice move to have should the Trick Room end at a bad moment. It also hits extremespeed arcanine first under Trick Room!!!!!

People have already suggested changes to your EV spreads, take that advice, the defence on Urasring and fixing up the 125 / 127s because it's only every 4 EVs that give you another Stat Point. So I hope that helped, feel free to post back to say whether these have really worked or not. And to point out any more problems you might be having, I'll be sure to check back! PM me if you need any more help =D

 

[parshimers]

really good suggestions here.. i like the idea of a trick + destiny bond banette or trick + u-turn uxie lead quite a bit, i'll try that out over froslass. just have to be careful about the EV and nature... there are some things that could probably outspeed a scarfed banette(electrode, most likely) with the spread it has now.

i can see the point about ursaring being redundant i suppose, probably the reason i put it in is because i like the way marowak works and i wanted another haha. but it seems like muk or camerupt is a good replacement, a life orb eruption from camerupt would be pretty beastly.

i really want to add in porygon2 as well, as that would atleast start to deal with the 4x dark/ghost weakness. thinking perhaps having it in place of where froslass is, but 4 trick roomers is kind of overkill.. it isnt like porygon 2 has no other purpose, though. i'm hesitant to get rid of slowking to place it in, as slowking is kind of my insurance policy against other trick roomers: it can survive trapinch, and outspeed anything else in trickroom like marowak.

i'll be sure to take these into consideration, gonna take a while to decide with such good advice haha. so many things i never considered before, especially camerupt and trick uxie.

edit: ah, trick uxie is only valid in platinum D:! what a dissapointment :< trick banette could work, though... i dont think it would have the speed to beat taunt electrode, but it would defeat persian unless it was weilding a choice scarf as well.

 

[Garganator]

I forgot to add one important point - If you use Eruption on Camerupt, use Expert Belt - recoil from Life Orb weakens Eruption in every hit. I guess that's it. You can also think about Golem, which works fine under Trick Room. And Golem also has access to strong Explosion. Anyway I'm glad that I helped you a bit ;).

 

[parshimers]

ah- noted, although now that i think about it a bit more, eruption isnt the best choice really i think. usually despite best efforts, your sweeper will take one hit going into the field after you set up trick room, and that would kind of defeat the purpose of eruption. it isnt like life orbed fire blast is weak, anyways.

im kind of debating what set banette should have to be a lead... for a trick banette it's kind of between
252 atk/252 spd/4 hp - jolly
- trick
- trick room
- taunt
- shadow claw

or...

252 spa/252 spd/4 hp - timid
- trick
- trick room
- HP fighting
- shadow ball

kinda torn between the two possibilites, i kind of have the feeling the special version won't work too well without calm mind. it also kind of tries to turn banette into a sweeper which... for this set isnt really a wise thing to try. also torn between banette's two abilities - insomnia allows you to switch in on yawns, but frisk would prevent you from swapping one choice item for another. im sort of afraid frisk would be an indication that im going to trick as well.
also planning to swap out froslass for porygon2, and ursaring for camerupt. this would give me a pretty decent balance- perhaps a bit too special-weighted though, as porygon2 is a pretty decent attacker in it's own right.
uxie's EV's also kind of are up in the air for me... i like the idea of having him fast, while it wont affect how fast trick room goes up considering its a -7 priority move, having uxie absorb hits for my special sweepers with u-turn would be rather advantageous. im just not sure how fast i should make it.

 

[parshimers]

Mhmm, i'm missing a clamperl here you could try that :D

the problem i have with clamperl is that it's utterly useless outside of TR. also that it cant take a hit like marowak or ursaring, and it's movepool is very predictable.
i've noticed this team kind of has issues with walls like ludicolo ( I HATE YOU GODDAMN BEANER POKEMON QUIT LEECH SEEDING ME ;__;), but lickilicky seems to take good care of it, even though it really doesnt belong in UU..
i also added ursaring in favor of marowak, while ursaring might be harder to get into play, once you get him in, he is an unstoppable force.

 

[Wyzra]

OK, I still think you need 3 sweepers, and only 3 Trick Roomers. Your third sweeper may be one that works outside of Trick Room.

The Trick Roomer who I see is most expendable is Banette. He's a slow, frail, one-time use Trick Roomer. Ditch him, and replace with a new sweeper. I have a few ideas:

1) Machoke: This is completely untested, but you can run No Guard Machoke @ Life Orb with Dynamicpunch/Stone Edge/Ice Punch/Earthquake. This gives decent coverage and the confusion may help. Unfortunately, his stats are a little low.

2) Fast Set-Up Sweeper. CM Raikou, for example. There will be times when you can get this in and TR is down and you need to avoid being swept by the opponent's fast Pokemon. Then this will be easy to set up and attempt another sweep. I've always found there are tons of times when the Trick Room is down and something like this could be useful.

3) Scarf Sweeper. If your Trick Room is down, then you can just get a Scarfed Pokemon to come in and wreak havoc on your opponent's weakened team. Good choices are Gallade and Blaziken.

I'm trying to help you prevent a phenomenon that I've found in every Trick Room team I've played: even when playing well in the beginning, the opponent can make a sudden reversal and sweep your slowbies in the absence of Trick Room with any ordinary sweeper. Furthermore, I believe that the extra coverage (both offensively and "defensively") given by three legit sweepers is absolutely necessary.

Don't try Clamperl, as it works about as well in practice as Slaking (probably a little worse, even). And I tend to have wacky untested ideas, although I always make note when I give untested advice, so keep that in mind.