Declining use of once common move sets?

Gardevoir

I have noticed that since the advent of new and surprising move sets, the older and more obvious ones are declining in use.

One of the most prominent examples is Salamence. Most of the Salamence that you see now are the Choice Specs variant. The Dragon Dance and Choice Band versions are less commonly seen and are continuing to decline in use. This has even come to the point that people are switching Blissey into Salamence before they know its move set for sure.

Other examples include Tyranitar and Garchomp. People are now using them for their less impressive special attack because they catch the opponents off guard. Tyranitar to a lesser extent, but Chain Chomp is rapidly becoming a standard.

While it is good to surprise the opponent every once in a while, this is becoming so common that people are forgetting the obvious, that these Pokemon have some of the highest physical attack stat in the game.

People are jumping onto new trends and bandwagons too easily. Just because some Pokemon have another usable attack stat does not mean that it should become standard. People should consider their own battle style and build move sets accordingly, not following what is popular at the time.
 
Actually, I believe it's for the betterment of Pokemon-kind.

With all of the variations running around of standards, it makes it even harder to counter everything by one team, which keeps competitions going and new strategies keep popping up.

You may think it's not using our personal battle styles, but everyone wants to win, even if it involves keeping your opponent on the edge with various movesets that they can't predict when the Poke is first sent out.

Besides, iirc, the Chain Chomp was really just meant to catch people off guard, making it decline or rise in popularity according to the current metagame's threats. It's really just a fad that will fall, then rise, then fall. If you can't deal with the Physical/Special monsters jumping over the the over side once in a while, then you're just refusing to adjust to the here and now.

Besides, some people just copy others as their style, not using their own. It's up to them to figure it out on their own, and they don't need someone to tell them that, they have to figure it out on their own.

EDIT: Also, the damage calculations work on those sets, so...um...put that saying about the fixing and the broken things here. I forget what it is right now.

EDIT2: I remember:"If it's not broke, then don't fix it."
 
Yeah I've been a firm user of CBSalamence since Advance, and due to the popularity of CSpecsSalamence people assume that my Sala is CSpec'd and switch in their Blissey. It's hilarious when they get hit by a CB'd Dragon Claw and watch them panic.
 
SpecsMence has been a standard since the beginning of DP really. About 90% of them seem to be running it =/ I can see why, as it is amazingly strong.
 
Salamence may have a higher Attack stat, but Draco Meteor has 140 base power. The Choice Specs set was touted as a massive damage dealer since before DP English even came out.
 
It's this exact reason that I lead with a MixedMence. People always expect a special attack, so they switch to Blissey, and then they switch to a physical wall only to be hit by a special attack. It's pretty nice.

Some of the weird sets do catch people off guard, so there's no reason to completely ignore them. The element of surprise is one of the things that make the game fun anyways.
 
The sets will always rotate in and out, too, as people begin to counter them. Look at, say, RSE Agiligross. He used to be the "omg he be ubar" candidate until the metagame changed and bulky waters had their day. Then...was it 'colo?...became more common in response to that. These things just happen.
 
It's the essence of metagames. First, you have the game. Then, gaming the game (the metagame). Then you start gaming the metagame. And so on, and so on...

Eventually, it may come full circle where the most basic playing strategies fall so far out of style, their use is considered innovative.

I can see it now...

"OMG! Instead of the standard CB EQ/Rock Slide Blissey that has become the common staple sweeper of the 2009 metagame, MegaN00b has completely turned this game on its ear by using a T-Waving Blissey as a special wall!! No one would've ever predicted that..."
 
DougJustDoug said:
"OMG! Instead of the standard CB EQ/Rock Slide Blissey that has become the common staple sweeper of the 2009 metagame, MegaN00b has completely turned this game on its ear by using a T-Waving Blissey as a special wall!! No one would've ever predicted that..."
Click to expand...

lol thats very comical.

Regarding the bandwagoning: Everyone does these movesets cause its whats hip and what the cool kids do so everyone does it its just like the real world. I mean just cause this is pokemon you think people would just be original and use there own movesets. Well thats a no.

i myself try making my own original movesets and find it more fun. More people should try that but i guess some people cant think of new movesets. There is however only so many moves to use.

I also think using the weaker of the attack stats just to be unpredictable is dumb since eventually people will catch on to the set and then you will be using a poke not to its advantage.

and sorry for it being unreadable before trying to type fast on instant messanger and what not has made me type like that, i hope this is better.
 
notorious, Im sorry for the personal remark, but that is just unreadable. Punctuation is your friend!

I believe there is another side of the coin in this case. People may have to use Cresselia more then Blissey, as it is the only solid MixSet counter.

It counters MixApe, CSpecs Lucario (okay, not enterily), MixMence, Chain Chomp etc.

Then, very few Pokemon make good mixed sweepers, almost all of them are the 600BST crew. I do hope that Blissey use decreases, so that a succesful team I make doesn't have to include a specific Blissey counter...
 
These metagame shifts are commonplace in pokemon and have been happening ever since people started standardizing pokemon sets.
 
If Choice Specs and Choice Scarf had this much influence on the metagame, I wonder what will happen if a defensive choice item is ever released.
 
Personally I'm seeing the opposite of what Gardevoir has seen, when DP was new I was seeing hoardes of the new sets, but now I'm finding most Salamence seem to have gone back to DD, even if only to cash in on people still expecting SpecsMence. Same deal for various other mixed pokes.

As for a defensive choice item, I don't see it working, most defensive pokes are also supporters so being locked into one move is not really worth 50% extra defense when you can't actually do anything back at all.
 
I mean at the beginning it was done for surprise factor including the power factor aswell. When they saw a tyranitar they switched in to their skarmories and experienced the taste of thunderbolt. Thanks to new addition items known as life orb and choice specs lower stats became more usable. I mean lets do it for salamance. Very high attack but also usable special attack. 350 is not that bad but then lets compare attacks. Draco meteor very high powered only resisted by steel type super attack. Then there is dragon claw. That base power difference does matter. Also Fire blast for steels. That made specal set useful for it. What I mean is that they work. The downside is that since everybody started using it lost the strenght. It is the way metagame works. It will return to attack sala again when they realize it wont do that then again special mence. Of course mixed sweeper is always great but as the metagame shakes with these new additions there will be new counters forcing it to change thus this change will make pokemon get moves which you never thought about it.
 
I haven't faced a Specsmence in quite sometime now. Seems DDancers are back to business. Same for the Chain Chomp.

Like TSPhoenix, I'm seeing the opposite. I think people tried the "unexpected" movesets for a while, but are getting back to the original now that everyone already found a way to counter them, while some others are going Mixed to grab one or two surprise KOs.

But for a defensive choice item, I guess it could be something like "50% more Sp/Def, this Pokémon can only use 2 moves" or something.
 
Specsmence is still around. I've in fact never fought any other type of Mence except for Mixmence who ended up dying to Life Orb recoil. I think the problem with the usage of DDMence is not the Blissey, but how common Cresselia is these days, making it not so surprising.

These, however, I've seen decline:
- Doublestatus Gengar (it was sooooooooo common in early WiFi play)
- Swords Dance Weavile
- Choice Band Garchomp (it's actually scary facing one, much scarier than Scarf, but people really overlook it)
 
I'm pretty sure I outlined the real beauty behind the DDMence set in my analysis months ago, after I insisted, as early as February, on the threat SpecsMence (or JumpMence depending on who you are) has proven itself to be in the metagame despite the set not utilizing Salamence's 135 Base Attack.

The bottom line is that, on a pokemon that can do both effectively, you will never be "wasting" a higher attacking stat because your opponent will not know whether to expect a physical threat or a special one. It's really that simple...
 
I look at it as a circle of events. Right Now, new sets (Special Attacks on Physical Pokemon, ect) are becoming popular because of their curremt element of suprise. Later on, people will go back to "Classic" sets because they will be more suprising. Because now everyone sends in a Blissey expecting a Specmence, sooner or later Choice Band Salamence will become popular, and that Blissey switch in will take a STAB CBed Dragon Claw right in the face, so then people will start senting in Skarmory to take that. After a while, it will switch back to a Specmences and so fourth.
 
And my point is that whatever timetable on which that "circle of events" revolves does not necessarily have to span months, or even weeks. I can switch back and forth between a team with SpecsMence and a team with DDMence literally at will, and the ability and willingness to do that is one of the main keys to being a successful competitive battler.
 
Reading the posts, your point has almost been completely nullified.
Half the people here use a *queer* moveset, instead of the standard, to throw off their opponent. Which is great, it gets people thinking instead of just whoring out Blissey.

"It's just goes in a big circle, and we're in the middle, you and meeee..."
 
The only sets I'm caught off guard is with Lucario and Salamence. Salamence, I always expect Draco Meteor and switch to my SpDefensive Bronzong. I get hit by EQ and thankfully it has Levitate. Then I assume its a physical Salamence so when I switch to Tangrowth, Flamethrower. Bam!

Same for Lucario. I never know if its a special or physical set. I make random switches and somehow luckily escape.

Whatever changes are being made, its for the good. :P
 
While the cycling between spectrums for certain pokes will happen and is happening, with each cycle the amount of swing is going to be less each time, probably to the point that it just settles where people use the set that fits their playing style and team and not care about suprising people, because by that stage people expect Salamence to be either of CB, DD, SpecsMence or Mixed w/Orb.

Once things begin to settle down it'd be foolish to assume its a SpecsMence, so as the person playing Salamence, it'd be silly to choose SpecsMence because you think it will give you the element of suprise, because it won't. Sure it still handy to keep your opponent guessing by using a Pokemon that can go either way, but ultimately people will stop switching Blissey into Salamence without some reason to expect SpecsMence (ie, already seeing abundance of physicals).
 
In this post ill put it into a cycle of the "Masses"

People Are Using Specmence---->Now the first switch in to a Salamence becomes Blissey---->People catch on and go to a DDMence/CBMence to whallop Blissey---->People catch on and start sending Skarmory in to the now common DD/CB Mence--->People Catch On and start using Specsmence to hammer the Physical Wall, and we are back to square one.
This idea leaves out MixMence, but it is a general process of the circle.

Also, this is not just for Salamence/Blissy/Skamory. Lots of other Pokemon plug into the slots.

Thats just the way I see it, on a 'As a whole" metagame

Edit: Or you could just send in a Cress and be fine just about any way it turns out.
 
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