Other Dedicated Leads

[Jojobobo]

I ran a search and couldn't find anything relevant, so I thought I'd open up a discussion about it. Do you think there's a place for a dedicated lead in OU anymore? For clarity, by "dedicated" I mean you have designed a pokemon specifically for leading in the majority of your games. It seems like with Defog and another Magic Bounce user the case for a dedicated defensive lead is growing ever smaller, especially with a rise of Prankster pokemon who can also ruin your day. Hazard-setters seem to be in a Catch-22 situation: either have the hazard-setter as a lead and run the risk of it getting easily removed early on, or try to set your hazards up later in the play - however by then it might not be really worth while in comparison to an a different pokemon who can rack up more damage now than the residual damage from hazards.

In terms of an offensive lead, I guess with team preview there isn't really much of a difference between an offensive lead and a plain offensive pokemon - you may have an offensive pokemon that you use as a lead most often but these things are always situational so I wouldn't think it could be considered "dedicated" to its role unless it has superb coverage. Besides, in the past offensive leads were often anti-meta to the current crop of defensive leads - if defensive leads are on the decline then it perhaps follows that there isn't much of a need for a dedicated offensive lead either.

Thoughts?

 

[Richitt]

I'm loving using Frisk Noivern with taunt as a lead. Allows me to read the situation by seeing the item, taunt if necessary, and hit appropriately with the right move. Dunno if i should make room for u-turn though.

 

[Jojobobo]

Seems like a nice idea, a Frisk Boomburst/U-Turn/Taunt/(Switcheroo or coverage like Flamethrower to fry Ferrothorn) lead with Specs (or a Life Orb if you're not using Switcheroo) certainly would have some potential as a lead and still be of use afterwards too. That's a pretty strong case for a good lead, except when you see an Oblivious Mamoswine.

 

[thdhted]

I run a deoxys s in order to taunt enemy leads and ser up hazards, it can in a pinch depending on the set, take out an opposing lead as well

 

[aVocado]

The only dedicated leads I ever ran both in 5th gen and now are either fast taunters or fast u-turners, that's as far as dedicated leads can go. Suicide leads died with 5th gen's introduction, and I certainly won't lead with my Defogger/Spinner because I would need them later on in the game, and leading with them is risky.

Although now in XY, aside from leading with a fast taunter (which I did in BW) or a U-Turner, I did lead with Deo-S for quite a while, but with using the LO attacking set (Superpower/HP Fire/BoltBeam), as it can turn the game into a quick 6-5 if the opponent leads with Tyranitar, Genesect, or anything else that has a pretty big x4 weakness and can't tank a hit from Deo-S. So I guess attacking leads also work.

Ultimately, the only dedicated leads that should be used imo are either Taunters or momentum-gainers, really.

 

[Floodz66]

Rotom-W is my usual lead. He has bulk, speed, and u-turn. Not to mention, he doesn't have a whole lot to fear early game. He can usually kill peoples hazard setter leads, which then lets me defog when I feel like it. If its a scary starter hes facing, then I u-turn out. Though in the end, it really depends on what team my opponent is running.

 

[the-bumper-car]

Scolipede makes for a fantastic lead. Beats the common Deoxys-S/D, Espeon, Xatu, and Absol with Mega Horn - which accounts for a major hazards setter and all the users of Magic Bounce - and can provide awesome utility with Baton Pass and optional Swords Dance. I really wish Scoli had one more move slot for taunt/protect in there, but otherwise the game plan is Spikes against slower pokes, Horn on the Bug weak ones, and Swords Dance/Baton Pass if you can't deal with your opponent.

 

[Hidious]

Meh, with the ease of removing hazards with excadrill or defog. I have seen little use of dedicated hazard leads. Personally, I don't really have a dedicated lead rather than several pokemon that can lead, usually by scouting with volt/turn, setting up good early matchups, or acting as an anti-lead so I don't have to defog or spin later.

 

[supernut64]

Scarf Rotom-H is good. With immunities to common status moves used by prankster leads, levitate and a good typing; I think it's a good lead.

 

[thdhted]

really, dedicated leads are still viable , just that suicide leads are not very viable unless it it an HO team that can taunt a defog user or spinblock

 

[Patrick1088]

What about froslass as a lead? It can beat most spinners and defog users with its stab shadowball and ice beam (starmie, donphan, mandibuzz) and it prevents other hazards from being set up with taunt. Lets not forget its access to destiny bond and cursed body to mess with pokes.

 

[SergantGold]

Suicide Leads like Smeargle are almost useless with the influx of better spinners like excadrill and amazing defoggers like empoleon favortism Mandibuzz. IMO the only suicide lead that works anymore is Deoxys-S and -D

 

[Bedschibaer]

Suicide Hazard leads are dead, i think almost everyone will agree with me on this. Apart from things like Deoxys which is a good pokemon outside of setting hazards, it seems kind of like a waste to have a mon specifically for the purpose of dying when it's so easy to remove whatever it can do again. Giving your opponent a 5-6 advantage for the sake of something a bulky defogger or the unleashed spinner Excadrill can easily remove everything they throw at it. On a hyper offense team a suicide lead can give you the certain inch it takes to overrun your opponent, but then again Deoxyx is one of your best bets for that anyways.

 

[NotSoClutch]

I tend to run a fast u-turner such as scarf zoroark, scarf/band mienshao, scarf infernape, banded talonflame, scarfed rotom w, etc and then either switch into a hazard lead or a counter/check to the current Pokemon in play.

 

[Waxcode]

I use a male Meowsic dual screens lead on my team, and Prankster makes him good at it. It can live a couple hits after the first screen, and it has decent bulk. It also has thunder wave, witch is good with Prankster for obvious reasons. Lastly, a lot of people underestimate how much damage screens block, which allows me to set up with Crawdaunt or something else.

 

[Jayd]

Ambipom@Life Orb
Technician
252Atk/252Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Taunt
- U-Turn

Since Diamond and Pearl Ambipom has been my trusted lead in OU. Nothing does it's role like it and it does its role very well. It's not just a lead though; it's invaluable in the late game, and a good pivot midgame. Why more people don't use this guy I can only chalk up to oversight.

 

[Blackbeltsam]

Personally, I think Zoroark Illusioned as a typical hazard setter is quite effective at leading. Or at the very least, throwing off momentum.

 

[Phaazoid]

I take a more offensive twist on this, I run aqua tail instead of spikes

I've been switching between focus sash and life orb, he can generally OHKO the unsuspecting talonflame/heatran who come into counter him, and pass a swords dance and speed boost to mega ChariX/pinsir/Gyra to fuck the rest of their team.

It's also completely possible to bring it back in, especially if you can make room for protect.

 

[Velits]

I lead with what I think is best after viewing the opponents team. I happen to use Rotom-H alot though. It's immune for T-wave and WoW and you can gain momentum early in the match with VoltSwitch.

 

[Toad0234]

I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned yet but klefki. Priority dual screens and thunder wave support and foul play for offensive Pokemon trying to set up on it at first

 

[Dragontamer]

Ambipom@Life Orb
Technician
252Atk/252Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Taunt
- U-Turn

Since Diamond and Pearl Ambipom has been my trusted lead in OU. Nothing does it's role like it and it does its role very well. It's not just a lead though; it's invaluable in the late game, and a good pivot midgame. Why more people don't use this guy I can only chalk up to oversight.

I don't think you understand what a "Pivot" is. Pivots switch in relatively safely to a large number of attacks, and then deal massive amounts of damage to your opponent's switchin. Aegislash is a pivot. Most tanks, like Garchomp or Tyranitar, are Pivots.

But a Pokemon with fragile 75/65/65 defenses, no resistances and only one immunity can never be a pivot. The word you're looking for is maybe "Revenge Killer", or maybe "Scout". It is a pokemon that cannot do anything but switch-in after one of your pokemon dies... but then attempts to maximize the amount of damage with Priority and fast attacks.

Pivot (Defensive / Offensive)
A pivot is a Pokemon that is generally only used for switching. Due to good defensive stats and a solid defensive typing, they can usually take little damage as they switch in, and the opposing switch they force allows the player to switch again safely to another Pokemon. An offensive pivot will force a switch by threatening KO on the opponent, thus obtaining momentum, whereas a defensive pivot will be difficult to break past, and thus will slow the opponent's momentum.

 

[Bedschibaer]

Also people don't use Ambipom because it's a free switch into a Ghost or Steel type, and Uturning out, while taking Life Orb and hazard damage won't let let live very long. Also the Fake out is always coming from miles away, seriously, if you don't see the fake out coming something is wrong with you. Also i love how Ambipom (or Fake out users in general) useres insist on using Fake out, even though if i switch to any physical wall they take more damage from Life orb than i recieved, and Lefties neutralizes even that damage.

 

[Jayd]

I don't think you understand what a "Pivot" is. Pivots switch in relatively safely to a large number of attacks, and then deal massive amounts of damage to your opponent's switchin. Aegislash is a pivot. Most tanks, like Garchomp or Tyranitar, are Pivots.

But a Pokemon with fragile 75/65/65 defenses, no resistances and only one immunity can never be a pivot. The word you're looking for is maybe "Revenge Killer", or maybe "Scout". It is a pokemon that cannot do anything but switch-in after one of your pokemon dies... but then attempts to maximize the amount of damage with Priority and fast attacks.

Oh ok, thanks. "Pivot" made sense in my mind because it does force switches and gain me momentum. I didn't realize there was a defensive component to the term (i.e. that pivots are supposed to switch in on attacks).

Also people don't use Ambipom because it's a free switch into a Ghost or Steel type, and Uturning out, while taking Life Orb and hazard damage won't let let live very long. Also the Fake out is always coming from miles away, seriously, if you don't see the fake out coming something is wrong with you. Also i love how Ambipom (or Fake out users in general) useres insist on using Fake out, even though if i switch to any physical wall they take more damage from Life orb than i recieved, and Lefties neutralizes even that damage.

The predictability of Fake Out is a strength, actually. It's so predicatable that you know what the opponent is going to do to try to counter it, and you can respond in kind. And there is often very little to lose by just going for it. And I said that Pom is invaluable in the late game because by that time the opponent's range of options is severely limited. This feeds back into my misuse of "pivot". You can use Ambipom to force the game into a direction you like since the threat of Fake Out is like clockwork.

Furthermore, Ambipom doesn't take hits so the Life Orb damage is usually irrelevant. It's all the damage it's going to be taking anyway.

 

[0bl1vion]

My lead is a adamant Mamoswine - With access to stab ice shard and stealth rocks. I lead with him, Try to SR, And if not attacked I switch, Yet if im damaged what so ever I begin to ice shard and earthquake everything and anything that I can.

 

[Mecawallace]

While not a totally dedicated lead, I primarily lead with Mega Ampharos to slow-scout volt switch into an early sweeper like Bisharp or Porygon Z depending on what my opponent has on his team. Many times I'll recognize that my opponent will switch into a Ground pokemon, so I use Dragon Pulse or Focus Blast instead. Focus Miss handles Ferrothorn and Excadrill and Dragon Pulse severely dents most everything else, and beautifully OHKOs Garchomp. Mega Amphy also has Mold Breaker so he doesn't have to worry about Volt Absorb. Not to mention Amphy is bulky enough to actually survive STAB earthquakes, and scary enough to effectively pivot later in the game. Recently I've been using Porygon2 and trick rooming to turn Amphy into a serial killer.