Deoxys-S (Taunt+Recover)

[Ningildo]

You do have your point, but consider situation like the following:

Blissey:Both Deoxys-S comes in, Blissey hit it with Seismic toss or Softbroiled, not a status (which cripple both set). Now Blissey softbroiled as you hit it with Superpower, your attack doing less and less and it status you. On the other hand my Deoxy-S taunt it and shut it down completely and recover off Seismic toss

Forretress: HP fire is not listed as an main option on the 4 Atk analysis, and thunderbolt does 41% - 48.3% to a 252hp/80Sdef Forretress. So if you come in and try to thunderbolt it, it will set up 2 more layers before you kill it. Meanwhile I can taunt it and recover stall Gyro ball thanks to Pressure (it only has 4 hit even it does 67.2% - 79.7%)

You are true about Skarmory, Tentacruel and Hippowdon.

But after I saw your reply I also ask myself the following questions: What can counter/give trouble to the 4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S? And I have the following:

Dusclops: I can certainly Taunt and shut it down

Bronzong: I can recover stall out Gyro ball like Forrestress

Latias: Well, I cannot beat this, but as least I am not a calm mind set up Bait on her thanks to Taunt

Porygon2: Superpower does less than 50% and only getting weaker, while I can taunt stall it like Dusclops since thunderbolt does 37.3% - 44.4%

Jellicent: I am not sure how much a life Orb thunderbolt does to it since I don't know any damage calculator for new pokemon. But my guess is Life Orb thunderbolt fail to 2HKO, while my set can taunt and beat it similar to Porygon2, as long as I am using boltbeam.

Reuniclus: The standard calm mind set don't carry shadow ball and I resist both Focus Blast and Psychic, but if you lack taunt it uses you as set up bait instead. My set can taunt it, prevent it to set up and recover, and I defeat it slowly.

Sigilyph: After a cosmic power, the 4 Atk set fail to stop it, while my set can shut it down.

Wobbuffet: it revenge the 4 Atk set, while I can taunt and shut it down.

Deoxys-D: Taunt+Recover shut this down also

Wilson 46, I would find log to pursue you the set, please give me at least a week before you decide to reject this. I also appreciate if you try this on your own and get surprised by it, thanks!

There's just one problem with these "situations". The way I see it, you assume that your opponent is dumb enough to stay in and play along with your plan. Sadly, while in a few cases this is true, most people will switch out and put you in a checkmate position. Tyranitar will if you lack a Fighting type move and Scizor will if no Fire is present. How will they do so? Pursuit.
If you switch, you're dead. If not, you take a hefty amount of damage. This is also a reason why Aerodactyl is preferred for this role. So please take note of this if you still insist with this.
I hope I don't get ninja'd...

 

[November Blue]

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't know what I was thinking when I said that this looked solid. I tested it, and it was deadweight 90% of the time. This is an offensive attacker with no attacks, and too many support moves. It's trying to do two things at once, and stretching itself out too much. Why invest so much in speed when you need to take hits? If you're breaking stall, you want bulk to go with Taunt and Recover, not max Speed to take out a somewhat rare threat in Scarf Landorus for, seemingly, no good reason. I'd shift the speed EVs to HP, and change the nature. Change Drain Punch to Superpower, as you have Ice Beam and Recover.

The set can't deal with status at all. Thundurus is just going to Thunder Wave you before you can Taunt it, and you still have to worry about Burns from Scald.

As a stallbreaker, this set is outclassed by Will-O-Wisp Mew.

 

[Steamroll]

I think even with max defense Deoxy-s still can't take a hit for its life. Don't forget some pokes aren't fit to do multiple jobs on a team, and Deoxys-s is one of them. Even if you change the attack moves up a bit it still won't do much outside kill a select few pokes.

 

[sammao]

dusclops:4spa naive ice beam / thunderbolt vs 252Hp / 176 calm eviolite dusclops=8.8%-10.21% 9-10HKO good luck with that

reuniclus: reuniclus has magic guard plus paralysis isn't going to hurt reuniclus that much since it's slow anyway.

sigilyph:you don't defeat it because they swich out plus 4atk deo deos more damage with thunderbolt then your set does since it has more Spa evs.

Plus most stall teams have toxic spikes on thier team so that wears deo down with lif orb too.

After you taunt these pokemon I mentioned, they becomes a sitting duck essentially. For example, you taunt Dusclops and it cannot Wil-O-Wisp, if you don't like to stay in and outstall it with recover, you always have the option to bring in something like Tyranitar save, only taking a seismic toss, and pursuit it to death. Same goes for Reuniclus, after you taunt it, it will spam Psychic/Psycho shock, and you can again bring in Tyranitar and finish it off if you don't like to outstall it.

If they switch, great, you just forced something out (that the 4 Atk set fail to do) and give you momentum.

 

[sammao]

There's just one problem with these "situations". The way I see it, you assume that your opponent is dumb enough to stay in and play along with your plan. Sadly, while in a few cases this is true, most people will switch out and put you in a checkmate position. Tyranitar will if you lack a Fighting type move and Scizor will if no Fire is present. How will they do so? Pursuit.
If you switch, you're dead. If not, you take a hefty amount of damage. This is also a reason why Aerodactyl is preferred for this role. So please take note of this if you still insist with this.
I hope I don't get ninja'd...

So I come in, taunt, and forced out something like Dusclops or Renuiclus, and gain momentum, how great is that. Tyranitar is a threat, that is why the fighting is listed as a primary option. For Scizor it is not like Aerodactyl can deal with it since it is weak to bullet punch also and take huge damage from pursuit. And if you want to, you can run fire punch to stop it or run a Megnezone.

 

[sammao]

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't know what I was thinking when I said that this looked solid. I tested it, and it was deadweight 90% of the time. This is an offensive attacker with no attacks, and too many support moves. It's trying to do two things at once, and stretching itself out too much. Why invest so much in speed when you need to take hits? If you're breaking stall, you want bulk to go with Taunt and Recover, not max Speed to take out a somewhat rare threat in Scarf Landorus for, seemingly, no good reason. I'd shift the speed EVs to HP, and change the nature. Change Drain Punch to Superpower, as you have Ice Beam and Recover.

The set can't deal with status at all. Thundurus is just going to Thunder Wave you before you can Taunt it, and you still have to worry about Burns from Scald.

As a stallbreaker, this set is outclassed by Will-O-Wisp Mew.

Ok, the thing is there are pokemon (Dusclops, Reuniclus, I mentioned already) that gives the the 4Atk LO set trouble while my set can come into, taunt and beat them either myself or from a teamate. If they switch, great, you get more momentum now.

Also no non ground type sweeper can avoid being cripple by thundurus.

 

[pie cream]

After you taunt these pokemon I mentioned, they becomes a sitting duck essentially. For example, you taunt Dusclops and it cannot Wil-O-Wisp, if you don't like to stay in and outstall it with recover, you always have the option to bring in something like Tyranitar save, only taking a seismic toss, and pursuit it to death. Same goes for Reuniclus, after you taunt it, it will spam Psychic/Psycho shock, and you can again bring in Tyranitar and finish it off if you don't like to outstall it.

If they switch, great, you just forced something out (that the 4 Atk set fail to do) and give you momentum.

The point of the 4atk set is to be a revenge killer and be good againest offensive teams,plus,you think thier going to stay for ever but smart players are not also calm mind reuniclus survies a pursuit from tyranitar if it doesn't swich out and ko's tyranitar woth focus blast.

 

[sammao]

The point of the 4atk set is to be a revenge killer and be good againest offensive teams,plus,you think thier going to stay for ever but smart players are not also calm mind reuniclus survies a pursuit from tyranitar if it doesn't swich out and ko's tyranitar woth focus blast.

I am not exactly sure what you meant here, but I will repeat my point again. The 4 Atk LO set and my set beat different pokemon. I never said the pokemon I taunt are going to stay in forever, I only said my set shut it down and when they switch you gain momentum (i.e, entry hazzard damage). Also if you predict a taunt reuniclus will stay in to focus blast T-tar, use crunch.

 

[ginganinja]

apologies if I don't fully understand the set however if I wanted to run a Taunt + Recover set why would I not just run Deoxys D instead?

Its fast enough to Taunt most of the common pokemon on stall and actually has enough bulk to take a hit. Granted, its offences are a bit limited but they do enough if your relying on super effective coverage, and again, if I wanted to run an offensive Deoxys S set, I personally would run the LO offensive set every time.

IDK I just think your Deoxys S set just tries to do too much and either becomes outclassed, or just plain ineffective (such as being walled due to lack of coverage).

 

[sammao]

apologies if I don't fully understand the set however if I wanted to run a Taunt + Recover set why would I not just run Deoxys D instead?

Its fast enough to Taunt most of the common pokemon on stall and actually has enough bulk to take a hit. Granted, its offences are a bit limited but they do enough if your relying on super effective coverage, and again, if I wanted to run an offensive Deoxys S set, I personally would run the LO offensive set every time.

IDK I just think your Deoxys S set just tries to do too much and either becomes outclassed, or just plain ineffective (such as being walled due to lack of coverage).

Well, you know Deoxys-D can be taunt by a LO Aerodactyl and get shut down while my set can kill it@@@@

Ok, that was kind of a joke, but anyway Deoxys-S beat defferent pokemon. Assume I am runing Ice Punch + Low Kick, I can potentially defeat or at least revenge kill (when weakened for some): Tyranitar, Dragon dace Dragonite, Salamence, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Landorus, Mamoswine, Roserade, and of course LO Aero @@@.

And I don't think Deoxys-D is able to beat all of those. Compare to Deoxys-D, my set is not only a stall breaker, but also a revenge killer. Deoxys-D simply don't have the speed and power. Let's not forget it can run different coverage movepool like boltbeam and is unpredictable.

And I don't want to repeat this point yet again, the 4 Atk set and my set beat different pokemon.

 

[pie cream]

I am not exactly sure what you meant here, but I will repeat my point again. The 4 Atk LO set and my set beat different pokemon. I never said the pokemon I taunt are going to stay in forever, I only said my set shut it down and when they switch you gain momentum (i.e, entry hazzard damage). Also if you predict a taunt reuniclus will stay in to focus blast T-tar, use crunch.

Standerd tyranitar doesn't ko while focusblast ko's....

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Here is the basic problem sammao, what exactly does this have over the basic life orb set? Not going to lie, when I look at this, I just think, "Go to the small changes thread and ask them to mention taunt and recover in the AC comments of the Life Orb set." How exactly does this differ from said set?

If you ever want this QC approved your going to need to answer that question.

 

[sammao]

Standerd tyranitar doesn't ko while focusblast ko's....

You can use choice band, also I was just giving an example, if you dislike tyranitar to counter Reuniclus, use Scizor or something else you like. The point is that you can almost always come into a psychic move savely, as Reuniclus can only spam that move against my set, and do what you need to.

 

[sammao]

Here is the basic problem sammao, what exactly does this have over the basic life orb set? Not going to lie, when I look at this, I just think, "Go to the small changes thread and ask them to mention taunt and recover in the AC comments of the Life Orb set." How exactly does this differ from said set?

If you ever want this QC approved your going to need to answer that question.

Please look at some previous thread I replied, some pokemon counter the 4 Atk LO set while my set can shut down, forcing them to switch and give you momentum. Again, both set beat different pokemon is my sum up statement.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

This set is pretty bad, IMO. It does have annoyance and longevity, but its 2-attack coverage isn't too terribly hot, and 50/90/90 isn't exactly all-star defenses, especially with no investment and a typing with few useful resistances. It's not exactly hard to be 2HKOed by a Pokemon that you don't especially threaten, doubly so when you're packing an uninvested special attack and an attack that's basically only good for Tyranitar.

EDIT: forgot this

QC REJECTED (1/3)

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Ok, I read this thread. I have to say, good say at defending taunt, but what about recover? No where do I see a good explanation of recover, anywhere. From what I got out of this thread is on the life orb set taunt needs to be slashed next to thunderbolt or something. I don't see how recover fits in, maybe I am missing something, but I just don't see how taunt + recover does anything worth an additional set?

 

[Shiki1335]

This set after using it for awhile has been tremendously lack luster. Most other leads with out last it or even just OHKO it.

 

[sammao]

This set is pretty bad, IMO. It does have annoyance and longevity, but its 2-attack coverage isn't too terribly hot, and 50/90/90 isn't exactly all-star defenses, especially with no investment and a typing with few useful resistances. It's not exactly hard to be 2HKOed by a Pokemon that you don't especially threaten, doubly so when you're packing an uninvested special attack and an attack that's basically only good for Tyranitar.

EDIT: forgot this

QC REJECTED (1/3)

So is this a QC rejection or not???

Edit: OK I thought your edit means forget the QC rejection, never mind, also I have changed the ev spread now, so you may want to reconsider.

 

[sammao]

Ok, I read this thread. I have to say, good say at defending taunt, but what about recover? No where do I see a good explanation of recover, anywhere. From what I got out of this thread is on the life orb set taunt needs to be slashed next to thunderbolt or something. I don't see how recover fits in, maybe I am missing something, but I just don't see how taunt + recover does anything worth an additional set?

You need recover so things like Dusclops, Reuniclus, porygon-2 (and others that I mentioned) won't kill you with repeating attacks. You taunt them, forcing them to attack you that does less than 50% and you recover, strike back when you can. See how LO Aerodactyl works from Gen 4 and you will get the idea.

 

[sammao]

This set after using it for awhile has been tremendously lack luster. Most other leads with out last it or even just OHKO it.

This is not suppose to be a lead, it can come in, force certain pokemon switches early-mid game and get momentum. It is also a revenge killer thanks to the speed. I have explained it too much already, please just read the previous thread, thanks!

 

[shrang]

Yeah this set is pretty useless. Let's break this down, shall we?

Assuming you run your two primary moves (Ice Punch and Low Kick), what does Deoxys-S beat in the Top 30 most used Pokemon?

Ferrothorn - Survives Low Kick and OHKOs you with Gyro Ball. Lose.
Tyranitar - Win
Scizor - Lose
Politoed - Lose
Gliscor - Ice Punch doesn't kill Gliscor, but I'll give you the win since Gliscor is weak piece of shit. Win.
Latios - Survives Ice Punch and OHKOs you. Lose.
Rotom-W - Lose
Excadrill - Outspeeds and OHKOs you with Earthquake. Survives Low Kick if Sandstorm isn't up. Lose.
Thundurus - Survives Ice Punch and kills you. Lose.
Dragonite - Depends on the set, but generally you generally win if SR is up. Win.
Heatran - Survives Low Kick and kills you. Lose.
Jirachi - Lose
Reuniclus - Lose
Skarmory - Lose
Conkeldurr - Lose
Gengar - Survives Ice Punch and OHKOs with Shadow Ball. Lose.
Jellicent - Lose
Starmie - Lose
Magnezone - Survives Low Kick and kills you.
Gyarados - Lose
Blissey - Try as you might, Low Kick actually doesn't do that much. Although you can Taunt Blissey. Win.
Haxorus - Survives Ice Punch and OHKOs you with whatever. Lose.
Terrakion - Depends on if it has +2 Speed or not. I'll give you a draw.
Volcanora - Lose
Infernape - Lose
Ninetales - Lose
Espeon - Lose
Forretress - Lose
Salamence - Win
Vaporeon - Lose

So, out of 30 Pokemon, you beat 5 Pokemon and tie with 1 of them. Does not look like a very good set at all.

 

[Iconic]

errr this is kind of just a poor man's LO sweeper. . .

QC Rejected 2/3

 

[wilson46]

ok then

QC REJECTED (3/3)

 

[Oglemi]

better luck next time sammao