Differences between the 3v3 and 6v6 metagame

[Little Green Yoda]

Yep, lack of Sleep Clause means people will abuse it. Big surprise, right?

From playing the Battle Frontier (which is also 3v3, no Sleep Clause), I've come to appreciate the potential of Dream Eater lol. The "AI" is usually easy to predict a Dream Eater after a Sleep move but I'd imagine a human opponent on PBR would be quite annoying to face with this dilemma. Do I switch and risk losing another Pokemon to Sleep? Or do I stay in and hope my opponent doesn't sap my HP with Dream Eater?

And I don't understand why the better trainers aren't abusing ubers (like Darkrai) as much as the 'noobs' are. From all accounts, most of the uber users are weak trainers. I guess the novelty wears off when there's no more challenge? Perhaps some PBR players can shed some light on this.

 

[Phiphler]

Scizor
Adamant Technician
@ Lum berry
-Quick Attack
-U-turn
-Pursuit
-Aerial Ace

Wouldn't this solve alot of sleeping lead problems?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

3v3 kinda sucks compared to 6v6 just because of the hax factor. In all forms of Pokemon, you lose team members all the time because of random crits, freezes, etc. In 6v6, it sucks, but you can deal with in. In 3v3, you absolutely cannot deal with it. It's not only plausible but extremely likely that you just lost your only Pokemon able to stop one of their threats. You only have two other Pokemon anyway; you have zero wiggle room for this sort of thing.

3v3 also really kills prediction. You can't predict someone you don't know and haven't seen in action. You can only take a guess at how good the person is to predict the first move; you have no basis. It is usually the second half of a standard battle in which you really start playing Pokemon and predicting based on what you've seen so far. 3v3 is just too short... By the time you're finally ready to be able to predict them, the match is already over!

The extreme difficulty of making a 3 Pokemon team that isn't swept by any one given Pokemon is also an issue. You can really tell the game was designed for 6v6; it just works so much better that way.

I think the ultimate proof of the trouble with 3v3 is in ingame itself. Notice the battle tower is 3v3, and notice even good teams tend to lose to the horrible AI of all things. Why? Well, with only 3 Pokemon, you don't get much chance to outplay them, and they just have to wait to get lucky to beat you. If it were 6v6, talent would be a much more important factor in getting large battle tower streaks (as opposed to turtling and luck combined which is what it is now).

 

[Odinwolf]

"Don't hate the player, hate the game"

Nintendo set it up so that sleep could be abused in Wifi matches. The players on PBR wifi are just adjusting to the rules Nintendo enacted and looking for optimal strategies to win. Sure, its a ridiculous way to play the game, but a lot of people don't know anything about competitive pokemon.

I have started experimenting with ways to stop this without resorting to sleeping my opponents repeatedly as well. For instance, I've used a sleep talking TTar to pretty good effect. Then, even if I'm put to sleep, I can hit back very hard and sandstorm will negate sashes. I've even tried scarfed-ttar to hilarious effect a few times. People have disconnected on me when TTar outspeeds their Hypnosis Gengar at the start of the match.

 

[DougJustDoug]

I like 3v3 and play it a lot on WiFi. Yes the luck factor is very different than 6v6, but the matches are short and sweet. When I get an unwinnable matchup, I take the loss and move on. If the team is good though, you'll find it wins more than it loses.

I chalk up losses to bad play, bad luck or, bad matchup. I don't blame myself for bad luck or bad matchups. However, if I find that I gets lots and lots of bad matchups, I consider that a bad team. Sometimes, I'll still play with a "bad team" because it is fun. Theme teams or weird move combinations fall in this category. I played with a rain dance team, just to see how it worked. Lots of bad matchups happen with a rain dance team. But it was fun when I got a decent matchup. It allowed me to learn how to play with rain dance, and taught me to easily recognize rain dance threats.

As for the sleep thing, it is WAY overplayed in wifi. I'm really sick of seeing Breloom, Gengar, and Crobat leads. They always have a sleep move and lead with it. I run a Honchcrow lead on one of my teams, just because of the sleep leads. I run different Honchcrows. One has Nasty Plot/Dark Pulse, others run Sucker Punch, some have Taunt, a little Confuse Ray and TWave, almost all have Drill Peck. Nice sleep lead counter. But it gets owned pretty bad against many non-sleep teams, so it's a gamble. Still nice to watch those Brelooms run in fear.

 

[Aldaron]

From what I hear of 3 v 3, it is more my type of metagame :)

Emphasis on the offense is true?

 

[Carl]

3v3 also really kills prediction. You can't predict someone you don't know and haven't seen in action. You can only take a guess at how good the person is to predict the first move; you have no basis. It is usually the second half of a standard battle in which you really start playing Pokemon and predicting based on what you've seen so far. 3v3 is just too short... By the time you're finally ready to be able to predict them, the match is already over!

I've noticed this as well. Even though getting a glimpse at your opponent's six is helpful, with no frame of reference of how they'll play them (compared to the uniformity on Shoddy) you're still just making your best guess and hoping it works. There's been quite a few times where I've battled the same person a match or two later and faired much better just because I had some exposure to their thought process. I generally win rematches with people that I've previously lost to simply by predicting their leads based on what was lead by both sides last match.

And I don't understand why the better trainers aren't abusing ubers (like Darkrai) as much as the 'noobs' are. From all accounts, most of the uber users are weak trainers. I guess the novelty wears off when there's no more challenge? Perhaps some PBR players can shed some light on this.

Yeah I'm not sure either but I'm guessing it's kind of a common courtesy or something which is fine with me. I have faced all uber teams before with Darkrai and every time I pretty much want to give up on turn one. I stick them out anyway just in case I do manage a win.


More on sleep... I thought about using a Hypnosis/Insomnia Hypno last night just to be a dick. I'd probably add Counter and Focus Sash to that as well or I could design more of a Trick Room team and use that instead. Hypno gets a lot of fun moves actually so I might toy with that. I think Gengar would be the only troublesome lead since it would still have Shadow Ball to hit me hard with which is why I like the idea of Honchcrow. Too bad that doesn't get Hypnosis..

 

[DougJustDoug]

More on sleep... I thought about using a Hypnosis/Insomnia Hypno last night just to be a dick. I'd probably add Counter and Focus Sash to that as well or I could design more of a Trick Room team and use that instead. Hypno gets a lot of fun moves actually so I might toy with that. I think Gengar would be the only troublesome lead since it would still have Shadow Ball to hit me hard with which is why I like the idea of Honchcrow. Too bad that doesn't get Hypnosis..

When I run with my Honchcrow lead, Gengar still kinda sucks, depending on their team. Almost all Gengar leads carry Tbolt for all the Gyarados leads. That Tbolt from a max attack Gar hurts like hell, and OHKO's the Crow if it doesn't have serious defensive EV's. That's why I run Sucker Punch quite a bit. Sucker Punch Honchcrow beats the shit out of Gengar, but it sucks if they switch out on you. Pursuit rocks as well. I also run with Honchcrow and Electivire. That's pretty sweet. Gengar comes out, can't use Hypnosis, and throws that TBolt every time. Get that Motor Drive boost for Vire and outspeed Gengar and all the other fast shit on most teams. Nice.

Everybody thinks Gyarados is the only setup lead for Electivire. Au contraire...

 

[Jumpman16]

3v3 kinda sucks compared to 6v6 just because of the hax factor. In all forms of Pokemon, you lose team members all the time because of random crits, freezes, etc. In 6v6, it sucks, but you can deal with in. In 3v3, you absolutely cannot deal with it. It's not only plausible but extremely likely that you just lost your only Pokemon able to stop one of their threats. You only have two other Pokemon anyway; you have zero wiggle room for this sort of thing.

I agree with that, and that is why, whenever I get the chance to get on my 3v3 soapbox, I suggest playing best-of-three or even -five. I honestly think that not only would this handle the very legitimate gripe you've raised, but it would go far in doing 3v3 the justice it deserves. There is no reason to pretend that only one 3v3 bout should be played between two people at a given time. Knowing your opponent's six pokemon is interesting information that should indeed be applied a second, third and even fifth battle. This would help solve the "3v3 also really kills prediction" issue as well.

I think agreeing to best-of-three or best-of-five 3v3 battles pretty much handles all the hang-ups — though legitimate — you posted about 3v3 play. It may even convince you that, while you may think the game was designed for 6v6, 3v3 when played "properly" (either for lack of a better word or to remind you all of the infinite wisdom of I, the mighty Jumpman16), can be more enjoyable than 6v6.