-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Differences in Competitive Play between WiFi and Shoddy
- Thread starter kokoloko
- Start date
I prefer Wi-fi over shoody for a simple, and maybe picky, reason: I just hate Shoody's interface, there it is, hate me if you want but I really hate how lame and boring shoody's logs look, they don't make me feel like Im playing something fun, on the contrary, I feel like if I were doing some kind of serious and forced thing...
Another thing that comes with the yawn-inducing interface is that I don't concentrate well and make stupid plays for being half-playing, half-watching TV, half-talking to someone or something like that (none of the times the actual battle is the main activity)
And for those who say they don't wanna bother "spending too much time breeding", just use Plat's RNG. Its so damn easy that a not very skilled person like me can crank out 3 flawless pokes in 3 hours if not 2(only on plat, HG/SS RNG blows)
EDIT: Seeing that my other post got deleted, I'll keep it short, its not necessary to spend so much time if you want to play Wi-fi, so that is hardly an argument.
Another thing that comes with the yawn-inducing interface is that I don't concentrate well and make stupid plays for being half-playing, half-watching TV, half-talking to someone or something like that (none of the times the actual battle is the main activity)
And for those who say they don't wanna bother "spending too much time breeding", just use Plat's RNG. Its so damn easy that a not very skilled person like me can crank out 3 flawless pokes in 3 hours if not 2(only on plat, HG/SS RNG blows)
EDIT: Seeing that my other post got deleted, I'll keep it short, its not necessary to spend so much time if you want to play Wi-fi, so that is hardly an argument.
I'd have to disagree with that; RNG breeding has never been easier with HG/SS. The ability to check the frame you're on by calling Elm has made the issue of hitting your seed but missing the frame a non-issue.
I would disagree with that. After spending several long hours trying in vain to get a flawless Heatran, then getting a flawless Mewtwo in under an hour, I'd have to say that, for capture at least, HGSS is a hella lot easier. And as to breeding, while getting shinies is a lot easier in DPPt, breeding flawless pokes is a lot easier in HGSS, due to there only being one wandering NPC on the daycare route.
This
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html#comment8209963
The problem with the criticism exists in everything. I remember when I started playing ff11. American players were all like AMG RDMNINJA. They thought it was good. It wasn't. The game had been out for a while in japan, all the math had been done. It was proven not viable.
The same thing here. With the exception of a few deviations These are almost the best way to train or build your pokes. Minor changes to fit your team.
I would place money on the fact, that the people placing those comments would never count out how much speed Gliscor needs to always outpace lucario. This site has the dedication and drive to min/max every part possible.
(I don't even own a Gen 4 Pokémon game but I have seen a few YouTube videos and their comments.)
I believe that the difference is clear. Wi-Fi (and by extension the subscription pools of TKN, wilechase, etc.) is inhabited by the entirety of the battling community. Being a part of the battling community doesn't require any actual understanding of the game or even of competition itself; it just requires that you want to battle with four or six level 100 Pokémon or something. So what you get is that the vast majority of this "community" is composed of scrubs who don't really want to compete at all or even understand the concept of true competition, but just like the feeling of beating another scrub every once in a while. So when these scrubs see TKN's lead Furret, they fanboygasm just because it's different from what they're seeing, and then they look at wilechase or a Smogon user and the beauty of high-level competition goes right over their heads as they scream, "LOL UNORIGINAL." Similarly, they may complain about Shoddy's interface as taking the fun out of the game (no offense, Jackos), when for a competitive player the whole reason for playing is still there.
Contrast that with Smogon. Yes, true scrubs exist in the Smogon community (mostly the Shoddy chat) but Smogon at least holds a high standard of competitive excellence. Smogon has a single, clear goal of making willing battlers better at the game, so that the game becomes richer. (There's also the secondary goal of making the game itself better, but that's another matter.) Posts outside of Cong and Firebot have to have meaningful content; while I believe that this is overkill for a general competitive community, I acknowledge that it is needed because of the sheer size and general nature of the larger battling community. So what happens is that people who come into the community either don't like it (effectively kicking themselves out because they don't really want competition) or have a desire to get into Smogon and hone their skills.
I believe that the difference is clear. Wi-Fi (and by extension the subscription pools of TKN, wilechase, etc.) is inhabited by the entirety of the battling community. Being a part of the battling community doesn't require any actual understanding of the game or even of competition itself; it just requires that you want to battle with four or six level 100 Pokémon or something. So what you get is that the vast majority of this "community" is composed of scrubs who don't really want to compete at all or even understand the concept of true competition, but just like the feeling of beating another scrub every once in a while. So when these scrubs see TKN's lead Furret, they fanboygasm just because it's different from what they're seeing, and then they look at wilechase or a Smogon user and the beauty of high-level competition goes right over their heads as they scream, "LOL UNORIGINAL." Similarly, they may complain about Shoddy's interface as taking the fun out of the game (no offense, Jackos), when for a competitive player the whole reason for playing is still there.
Contrast that with Smogon. Yes, true scrubs exist in the Smogon community (mostly the Shoddy chat) but Smogon at least holds a high standard of competitive excellence. Smogon has a single, clear goal of making willing battlers better at the game, so that the game becomes richer. (There's also the secondary goal of making the game itself better, but that's another matter.) Posts outside of Cong and Firebot have to have meaningful content; while I believe that this is overkill for a general competitive community, I acknowledge that it is needed because of the sheer size and general nature of the larger battling community. So what happens is that people who come into the community either don't like it (effectively kicking themselves out because they don't really want competition) or have a desire to get into Smogon and hone their skills.
Azure Demon
Guest
Ok, I'm a true blue wifi player but i jumped into shoddy 3 months ago main differences i notice are shoddy has way more hax than wifi ever has I can go through about 5 wifi battles on wifi with no crits, no para hax from thunderpunch or something of that nature shoddy It happens to me like every 3 to 4 turns.
the wi-fi metagame rules are different like skarbliss is considered illegal to most players where here it is freely used and abused to hell and back.
shoddy is a lot faster paced because you have a timer and observers rushing the hell out of you and on shoddy you have a live audience who can distract you if you aren't focused on what you are doing. Now, while wifi does have voice chat however its pretty much standard for it not to be on.
But during tournies shoddy makes it easier to be counter teamed
the wi-fi metagame rules are different like skarbliss is considered illegal to most players where here it is freely used and abused to hell and back.
shoddy is a lot faster paced because you have a timer and observers rushing the hell out of you and on shoddy you have a live audience who can distract you if you aren't focused on what you are doing. Now, while wifi does have voice chat however its pretty much standard for it not to be on.
But during tournies shoddy makes it easier to be counter teamed
I do agree with you that hax happens a lot more on Shoddy, however the numbers you're giving are way exaggerated. I attribute the haxy nature of Shoddy to the fact that one can play way more battles in way less time, therefore hax happens far more often - leaving a lasting psychological impact. Hax has an equal chance of showing up in both venues.
Also, I don't know where, or against who, you play your matches - but SkarmBliss isn't and shouldn't ever be banned - it's not even that good anymore. Now if you're playing against one of the scrubs who have "personal" rules such as "NO BRELOOM! NO JIRACHI!!!!" that's just because they're retarded. If you look at my signature you'll notice I don't allow Rotom-A to be used against me but thats because Rotom-A isn't allowed on WiFi - if it was I wouldn't have a problem.
Also, on Shoddy, you don't get observers unless you're really good, or you're playing someone really good. So that argument is invalid.
Also, reading over my post I feel like I just shot you down completely. That wasn't my intention, I'm just creating discussion.
Before discussing the differences between the Shoddy and Wi-Fi metagames, I have to address the skill disparity between the two pools. I agree with Capefeather's idea. Battlers generally begin their "competitive careers" with immediate access to Wi-Fi. It is only as time passes (and so as they develop) that they explore, and discover that a simulator is even an option. Therefore beginners inherently inhabit the Wi-Fi metagame. It is this disparity in experience levels that leads to the disparity in skill levels between Wi-Fi and simulator metagames. In the same vein, a Shoddy player is capable of a higher volume of games simply due to the platform he chooses to play on. And so a Shoddy player will generally have more experience than a Wi-Fi player. However, the large crossover between the competent Wi-Fi players and the Shoddy players sees this effect minimized.
Now, as much as I wish this was not true, the simple fact is that the average Wi-Fi player is less competitively skilled than the average Shoddy player. Do I think this fact is blown out of proportion by competitive elitists? Of course. Do I think there are some excellent Wi-Fi battlers out there? Of course. Do I think that there are "scrubs" on Shoddy, too? Of course! But the fact remains.
However, skill disparity is not the only reason for the differences between the metagames. Remove new and unskilled players from both ends of the equation, and you certainly still have differences. As mentioned multiple times in this thread, the impracticality of stall on Wi-Fi has a humongous effect on the metagame, as you would expect. But there's more than that.
I think that the nature of metagames themselves has much to do with the phenomenon we are discussing. It should be common knowledge that "metagames", particularly the ones involving Pokemon, fluctuate. Early DP was quite offensive, but surprisingly progressed to a state where stall was dominant. Months later, offensive teams ran rampant, preceding the ban of Garchomp. (Forgive me if my metagame history is a little off; it's an inexact science because it went unrecorded in it's early stages, not to mention it's a very complex subject.) Under the inherent, fickle developments and fluctuations of the metagame, you can see how two metagames with even minor differences can become quite different. Remove an entire playstyle, some Pokemon, throw in an entirely different platform, and one metagame can progress along an separate path to the point of becoming completely unrecognizable. That certainly does not mean that the second metagame is inferior, just that it's different.
For example, the Japanese metagame began generation four with a different set of arbitrary bans than the English metagame. (Make no mistake, our bans were somewhat arbitrary, as well, they were based on generation three. That's why we've tried to correct this with the suspect process.) I believe the Japanese banned CurseLax, though I certainly could be wrong. We might scoff at this, and say that CurseLax is is hardly viable, let alone broken. But CurseLax might very well trump their metagame, which developed differently than ours. Meanwhile, they might be laughing at us for banning Defense Deoxys.
If Wi-Fi started out trying to counter GyaraVire, perhaps bulky grass types grew in popularity. Maybe Nasty Plot Infernape decided to take advantage of this. If Shoddy started out trying to counter SpecsMence, Blissey could have jumped in usage. And so MixMence became popular. Experience with this Pokemon, led to the development of a new set. You might laugh at the Endeavor Rattata, but it works better than you might think where residual damage is less common. What people use is greatly affected by what is currently popular. The development of distinct metagames went out along separate tracks.
So, ultimately, the separation of Wi-Fi and Shoddy is not simply due to skill disparity, though that is a factor. Differences in platforms, and the nature of metagames themselves plays a large role.
Earlier in this thread, the differing values of Wi-Fi and Shoddy players was mentioned. People who value creativity in competitive battling should only be criticized if they in turn criticize those who do not value creativity. In this instance, I subscribe to the "intolerant of intolerance" paradox.
I am interested in Wi-Fi because I'm interested in the game for more than it's excellent competitive aspects. For example, I enjoy the Battle Frontier, and some other in-game quirks.
Now, as much as I wish this was not true, the simple fact is that the average Wi-Fi player is less competitively skilled than the average Shoddy player. Do I think this fact is blown out of proportion by competitive elitists? Of course. Do I think there are some excellent Wi-Fi battlers out there? Of course. Do I think that there are "scrubs" on Shoddy, too? Of course! But the fact remains.
However, skill disparity is not the only reason for the differences between the metagames. Remove new and unskilled players from both ends of the equation, and you certainly still have differences. As mentioned multiple times in this thread, the impracticality of stall on Wi-Fi has a humongous effect on the metagame, as you would expect. But there's more than that.
I think that the nature of metagames themselves has much to do with the phenomenon we are discussing. It should be common knowledge that "metagames", particularly the ones involving Pokemon, fluctuate. Early DP was quite offensive, but surprisingly progressed to a state where stall was dominant. Months later, offensive teams ran rampant, preceding the ban of Garchomp. (Forgive me if my metagame history is a little off; it's an inexact science because it went unrecorded in it's early stages, not to mention it's a very complex subject.) Under the inherent, fickle developments and fluctuations of the metagame, you can see how two metagames with even minor differences can become quite different. Remove an entire playstyle, some Pokemon, throw in an entirely different platform, and one metagame can progress along an separate path to the point of becoming completely unrecognizable. That certainly does not mean that the second metagame is inferior, just that it's different.
For example, the Japanese metagame began generation four with a different set of arbitrary bans than the English metagame. (Make no mistake, our bans were somewhat arbitrary, as well, they were based on generation three. That's why we've tried to correct this with the suspect process.) I believe the Japanese banned CurseLax, though I certainly could be wrong. We might scoff at this, and say that CurseLax is is hardly viable, let alone broken. But CurseLax might very well trump their metagame, which developed differently than ours. Meanwhile, they might be laughing at us for banning Defense Deoxys.
If Wi-Fi started out trying to counter GyaraVire, perhaps bulky grass types grew in popularity. Maybe Nasty Plot Infernape decided to take advantage of this. If Shoddy started out trying to counter SpecsMence, Blissey could have jumped in usage. And so MixMence became popular. Experience with this Pokemon, led to the development of a new set. You might laugh at the Endeavor Rattata, but it works better than you might think where residual damage is less common. What people use is greatly affected by what is currently popular. The development of distinct metagames went out along separate tracks.
So, ultimately, the separation of Wi-Fi and Shoddy is not simply due to skill disparity, though that is a factor. Differences in platforms, and the nature of metagames themselves plays a large role.
Earlier in this thread, the differing values of Wi-Fi and Shoddy players was mentioned. People who value creativity in competitive battling should only be criticized if they in turn criticize those who do not value creativity. In this instance, I subscribe to the "intolerant of intolerance" paradox.
I am interested in Wi-Fi because I'm interested in the game for more than it's excellent competitive aspects. For example, I enjoy the Battle Frontier, and some other in-game quirks.
RNG is pretty easy on both Plat and HGSS as far as I'm concerned. It takes me less time to capture a perfect Pokemon in the wild in either than it used to take me to breed a halfway decent one the normal way.
Anyway, I play almost exclusively on wi-fi. I dislike Shoddy's interface, and it feels so much more anticlimactic than the "real thing." I also prefer double battles (not yet supported in Shoddy) and am annoyed enough by the handful of gameplay differences between Shoddy and the DS games to the point where it actually does make a difference for me.
Anyway, I play almost exclusively on wi-fi. I dislike Shoddy's interface, and it feels so much more anticlimactic than the "real thing." I also prefer double battles (not yet supported in Shoddy) and am annoyed enough by the handful of gameplay differences between Shoddy and the DS games to the point where it actually does make a difference for me.
I agree with both of these.
I may be in the minority in the fact that I frequently play Shoddy, but only for the purpose of testing out teams for WiFi.
While I would be reluctant to build a team on WiFi until it has at least made it onto the leaderboard on Shoddy, (it's only happened once so far) I have to admit that the few times I've actually played over WiFi, my rate of winning was much higher than on Shoddy, even though I only battle Smogoners.
If I remember correctly, my team was composed mainly of flawless pokes from my trade thread that didn't synergize well with each other. I had too many stat-uppers, T-tar on a team that mostly wasn't resistant to sandstorm, etc. but I still won well over half my games.
So it seems that the level of competitiveness on Shoddy is significantly greater than that of WiFi battling, in which case Shoddy serves as an effective team-tester.
While I would be reluctant to build a team on WiFi until it has at least made it onto the leaderboard on Shoddy, (it's only happened once so far) I have to admit that the few times I've actually played over WiFi, my rate of winning was much higher than on Shoddy, even though I only battle Smogoners.
If I remember correctly, my team was composed mainly of flawless pokes from my trade thread that didn't synergize well with each other. I had too many stat-uppers, T-tar on a team that mostly wasn't resistant to sandstorm, etc. but I still won well over half my games.
So it seems that the level of competitiveness on Shoddy is significantly greater than that of WiFi battling, in which case Shoddy serves as an effective team-tester.
I have to say this is a very interesting thread and I won't be spending my time acknowledging that there is a difference between the two mediums simply because of how obvious that difference already is.
However I would like to add my own commentary on previous made points. Since I read through the topic and can only remember points I'd like to comment on rather than the posters, I won't be quoting sorry.
Firstly the idea Shoddy being more like a Chess game. This is exactly why I prefer Shoddy over Wi-Fi. That one IV in speed can make or break a game. I understand Pokemon is an RPG but I play it as a Strategy RPG. I enjoy the constant mind games, the over thinking, the countering ect. Victory for me lies in out thinking my opponent so if my pokemon is slightly to slow or less powerful, it wrecks the entire concept of strategy to me. My read was correct, I made the right move, but regardless I lose the situation because of a missing point somewhere when I should have won.
Secondly Wi-Fi is much easier than Shoddy. From my experience back in DPPt when I still played Wi-Fi, the players were never as good as they are on Shoddy. I left the community in favor of Shoddy because it wasn't challenging. While I completely support unique movesets, there is a time where it just gets ridiculous. The problem with surprising your opponent with a moveset is that it can only work once. I used to run a special attacking Scizor with specs (dropping the IVs to get an HP ice of 60 boosting to 90 practically ice beam ect) to counter his counters. With rocks I was able to handle Zapdos and Heatran and win matches for knocking them out. Yet if I ever played those opponents again it would be disastrous. There's a reason there are standard sets, it's because we have researched and tested what works best.
Lastly, this is more of a personal tick more then anything but, Wi-Fi makes me more careless rather than less. It takes forever to run through a good match (I've had matches going into an hour) and at that point I've completely lost interest in the match and would rather just end it. While on Shoddy battle I could possibly out stall Blissey with a CM Rest Suicune I would never have the patience to sit through a stall fest on Wi-Fi and it might cost me matches. Yet again, that's just me being impatient.
That's my three cents
However I would like to add my own commentary on previous made points. Since I read through the topic and can only remember points I'd like to comment on rather than the posters, I won't be quoting sorry.
Firstly the idea Shoddy being more like a Chess game. This is exactly why I prefer Shoddy over Wi-Fi. That one IV in speed can make or break a game. I understand Pokemon is an RPG but I play it as a Strategy RPG. I enjoy the constant mind games, the over thinking, the countering ect. Victory for me lies in out thinking my opponent so if my pokemon is slightly to slow or less powerful, it wrecks the entire concept of strategy to me. My read was correct, I made the right move, but regardless I lose the situation because of a missing point somewhere when I should have won.
Secondly Wi-Fi is much easier than Shoddy. From my experience back in DPPt when I still played Wi-Fi, the players were never as good as they are on Shoddy. I left the community in favor of Shoddy because it wasn't challenging. While I completely support unique movesets, there is a time where it just gets ridiculous. The problem with surprising your opponent with a moveset is that it can only work once. I used to run a special attacking Scizor with specs (dropping the IVs to get an HP ice of 60 boosting to 90 practically ice beam ect) to counter his counters. With rocks I was able to handle Zapdos and Heatran and win matches for knocking them out. Yet if I ever played those opponents again it would be disastrous. There's a reason there are standard sets, it's because we have researched and tested what works best.
Lastly, this is more of a personal tick more then anything but, Wi-Fi makes me more careless rather than less. It takes forever to run through a good match (I've had matches going into an hour) and at that point I've completely lost interest in the match and would rather just end it. While on Shoddy battle I could possibly out stall Blissey with a CM Rest Suicune I would never have the patience to sit through a stall fest on Wi-Fi and it might cost me matches. Yet again, that's just me being impatient.
That's my three cents
sirlin and ffxi references in the same post, this guy is win.
yeah what sirlin said in his book really describes the general mentality of a wi-fi player, especially regarding the banning of rotom-A even though he's an OU pokemon, if it's because of the AR cheat code, then why accepting challenges from ppl who uses "legal hacks"? the means in obtaining both pokemons are considered "not legal" but the end result is as legal as any other natural RNG'ed pokemon. this is what i don't get.
but people who refuses to face either are understandable.(even though they are a rarity as most ppl i see here uses legal hacks).
for the wi-fi vs shoddy, i too think that the wi-fi's general community is weaker and less competitive than shoddy, but that doesn't mean that shoddy is more fun. but until wi-fi is fixed (more modes like random battles and ranked) it will stay that way, just plane fun.
There's one main reason why I disapprove of the use of Rotom-A on WiFi, regardless of the fact that he is an OU pokemon. You're simply not supposed to be able to use him, and that affects the metagame. If I wanted to pla in a metagame where ~20% of teams run the little toaster I would just go to Shoddy, which I still do a lot by the way.
Considering the fact that, since I own an AR, I have access to Rotom-A on WiFi you can see that its simply a matter of preference to me. The Rotom-A-less metagame is a lot more fun to play in. And more difficult to be honest, seeing as no other pokemon can do everything he does in one set.
I agree I hate shoddy. There is a reason it's called SHODDY battle. It's low quality. Don't get me wrong, I play it. It's just nothing compared to Wi-Fi.
you're not supposed to use him on "wi-fi" and some tournies when it was rare before the wi-fi event. if he was so broken and not supposed to be used why create him in the 1st place?
so i want to ask you a question.
if someone challenged you locally, let's say a friend of a friend, would you decline his challenge if he has a rotom-H? since he's not banned locally (on the opposite of being banned on wi-fi).
and to my understanding Rotom-a was not banned from wi-fi for any reason other than not being programmed into D/P.
aslo the absence of a pokemon will have its effect on the metagame, small or big it doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't break the balance.
with every new pokemon game new threats are introduced, and it's the player's job to adapt to them, and also there are bigger threats than rotom-a and pokemon who have greater impact on the metagame, should they be banned too?
Rotom-A isn't just "banned,'' its just that without an AR code you cannot have an appliance form on WiFi, its simply not possible. If this was not the case, I wouldn't care.
You also misinterpreted what I meant about playing in a Rotom-A-less metagame. I don't think he should be banned because he's too good, not by a long shot.
I honestly don't see the point you're trying to make. Either one of us misinterpreted the other, or there is some error in the information available to one of us.
the main reason why rotom-a is banned is because many people dont have AR and cant battle with it on wifi.
in short it is not allowed to make everything fair.
in short it is not allowed to make everything fair.
Sadly, I have not played on wi-fi since Soul Silver came out (which was when I started actually getting good at pokemon) but i liked it more then the shoddy that I have been playing now. Shoddy has only one thing over wi-fi, and that is speed. You can make a team, see if it works, and revise in a short period of time. After I have gathered ev training materials, I will go back to wi-fi, but continue to use Shoddy to first test my designs.
It is true that if you get more viewers on Shoddy depending on who you are,
Once, I wanted to see the effect of me bragging about my Angry Cow strategy, just to see the effect, and some guy challenged me. Then about 10-15 users came and watch, him crit a sub of my Anger Point Tauros, the rest is self explanatory
Wifi, has more nostalgia, a thend whatever you might think, it makes it look like pokemon is a real game, not a self-conscious clicking, where half of you is eating, half watching TV, half talking, half battling.
When I play shoddy, I never concentrate, and never predict. This actually had an effect on my Wifi battling style, where I made more mistakes, so I stopped playing Shoddy
Once, I wanted to see the effect of me bragging about my Angry Cow strategy, just to see the effect, and some guy challenged me. Then about 10-15 users came and watch, him crit a sub of my Anger Point Tauros, the rest is self explanatory
Wifi, has more nostalgia, a thend whatever you might think, it makes it look like pokemon is a real game, not a self-conscious clicking, where half of you is eating, half watching TV, half talking, half battling.
When I play shoddy, I never concentrate, and never predict. This actually had an effect on my Wifi battling style, where I made more mistakes, so I stopped playing Shoddy
I have actually battled competitively on both wifi and shoddy. I have to say in terms of matches, a match on wifi is much more fun, and clan matches are easier to set up. But the random players on wifi tend to be worse, because you can easily find a noob, but on shoddy your laddered against people of your difficulty, so if you wanna relax and have a match you can't cus your cre will go down and you will loose.
There is more prediction on wifi, 1 extra reason for this is you have to pay more attention, as if you miss what happened you loose the match. Also other people can't see your win/loss ratio, so it doesn't matter much. But the main thing, is when you have worked hard trying to trade for a legendary, or spent ages trying to egg the right move and get the best IV's, it's more fun to use the pokemon in battle, and you take more care over them. Battling styles are completely different because you don't take as much take care on shoddy, you fodder pokemon cus you don't think you'll need em anymore, while on wifi if your hard earned Tyranitar goes down, you feel sad. This is also because the matches last longer and you have to wait longer for another match. This has advanatages and disadvanatages, on shoddy it means the oponents team will go down quicker. But it makes it harder to set up.
The loss of Rotom is huge in wifi, but there are other differences. The substitute counter stratergy works on wifi, it fails on shoddy. Lunnar dance heals pokemon before entry hazard damage (has it's pro's and con's) on wifi, it doesn't on shoddy. There are other shoddy fail things. Damage appears less on wifi, I have no idea why. You can't tell how much damage the oponent did, so you don't know if your in KO range or not, this can be frustrating, but adds another element to it, and this is how battling is meant to be.
Another thing, is the Rotom-A forms have to have there signiture move, otheriwse they change back to normal Rotom. Although I'm sure AR codes can get around this. Surprise is more effective on wifi, if you use a surprise team on shoddy you will likely face the same person again and they will know your plan and you'll probably loose if you use a surprise stratergy. Wifi you know who your battling and can pick your move accordingly.
Overall:
- Winning matches on shoddy comes down to your team
- Winning mathces on wifi comes mroe down to prediction
Now there's prediction on shoddy, but the oponent does not adapt in a battle, which is odd. On wifi there is more prediction involved and means there is less pressure on your team, and means surprise strategies work more.
That's all I can think of, but I'm sure there are many other differences. The Wifi metagame is also about 4 mounths behind the shoddy metagame.
I enjoy both shoddy and wifi, I generally use shoddy for testing, and wifi for playing, as wifi is more fun.
There is more prediction on wifi, 1 extra reason for this is you have to pay more attention, as if you miss what happened you loose the match. Also other people can't see your win/loss ratio, so it doesn't matter much. But the main thing, is when you have worked hard trying to trade for a legendary, or spent ages trying to egg the right move and get the best IV's, it's more fun to use the pokemon in battle, and you take more care over them. Battling styles are completely different because you don't take as much take care on shoddy, you fodder pokemon cus you don't think you'll need em anymore, while on wifi if your hard earned Tyranitar goes down, you feel sad. This is also because the matches last longer and you have to wait longer for another match. This has advanatages and disadvanatages, on shoddy it means the oponents team will go down quicker. But it makes it harder to set up.
The loss of Rotom is huge in wifi, but there are other differences. The substitute counter stratergy works on wifi, it fails on shoddy. Lunnar dance heals pokemon before entry hazard damage (has it's pro's and con's) on wifi, it doesn't on shoddy. There are other shoddy fail things. Damage appears less on wifi, I have no idea why. You can't tell how much damage the oponent did, so you don't know if your in KO range or not, this can be frustrating, but adds another element to it, and this is how battling is meant to be.
Another thing, is the Rotom-A forms have to have there signiture move, otheriwse they change back to normal Rotom. Although I'm sure AR codes can get around this. Surprise is more effective on wifi, if you use a surprise team on shoddy you will likely face the same person again and they will know your plan and you'll probably loose if you use a surprise stratergy. Wifi you know who your battling and can pick your move accordingly.
Overall:
- Winning matches on shoddy comes down to your team
- Winning mathces on wifi comes mroe down to prediction
Now there's prediction on shoddy, but the oponent does not adapt in a battle, which is odd. On wifi there is more prediction involved and means there is less pressure on your team, and means surprise strategies work more.
That's all I can think of, but I'm sure there are many other differences. The Wifi metagame is also about 4 mounths behind the shoddy metagame.
I enjoy both shoddy and wifi, I generally use shoddy for testing, and wifi for playing, as wifi is more fun.
I agree with everything said in this quote. It sums up my opinion exactly.
Well in Wifi people don't use a team full of OUs they often are more diversed and what not, people who do use OU are often called "OU whores" which the term isn't true since people using OUs are just playing the game how it was ment to be played.
Also as a sole Wifi battler I notice people are saying there arn't many perfect pokemon or legendary and no Rotom-A, this is kind of true but I know as a fact the around 1/3 of the wifi population has pokesav and sav perfect pokemon. Also a lot of the wifi battlers have AR codes of letting in rotom-A though it is less common it is seen every 1/10 players roundish.
Also as a sole Wifi battler I notice people are saying there arn't many perfect pokemon or legendary and no Rotom-A, this is kind of true but I know as a fact the around 1/3 of the wifi population has pokesav and sav perfect pokemon. Also a lot of the wifi battlers have AR codes of letting in rotom-A though it is less common it is seen every 1/10 players roundish.
I read this somewhere else on Smogon, but since Wifi team building takes so much longer, users will often employ the "tried and true" pokemon that can be consistently good, such as Choice Band Scizor or Swampert, rather than gimmicky pokemon that could be terrible down the road.