Ditto (BW2 Update)

ebeast

she's probably sexting nprtprt
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I'm here to ban fun. [21:18] <FLCL> no tanoshii allowed

The Overview has too much fluff and makes Ditto sound better than it actually is. In reality Ditto is hardpressed to beat most of the set-up Pokemon that it transforms into. It loses against SD Samurott, Bulk Up Gurdurr, SD Zard, Klang, BU Braviary, SDPass Scolipede, CM Serperior, and CM Musharna. The only set-up Pokemon it really beats are: Gorebyss, Sawsbuck, Fraxure, and Carracosta

It can also revenge kill some regular Pokemon that can hit themselves for super effective damage like Golurk, but overall it's pretty abysmal in NU and the analysis should represent that. Sorry for bothering you at this stage of the analysis, but this is something that needs to be addressed. I would like the Overview to in some way mention how badly it fails to beat common set-up Pokemon. Please nobody stamp this, until it happens.

EDIT: I was writing this as tennis made his post, so the fluff thing doesn't apply as much anymore. Also I moved Carracosta from mons it loses to to mons it beats, I forgot about the Shell Smash Def drops.
 

ebeast

she's probably sexting nprtprt
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Remove the second sentence from the Overview.

When listing the Pokemon it cannot beat I would like a lot more of the Pokemon that I listed to be added. A list of: BU Braviary, SD Rott, SD Pass Pede, CM Serp, BU Gurdurr, and CM Musharna would be better. In the same case I would also add Fraxure and Sawsbuck to the list of Pokemon it does beat in addition to Byss and Costa.

Add Spikes to the list of moves that Ditto could possibly be using in Set Comments.

"Meaning, to get rid of any defensive Pokemon the opposing team's own offensive Pokemon have difficulty handling. Then, when the time is right, Ditto can transform and sweep with minimal difficulty."

  • This is not how Ditto generally works. You don't decide when you can get this thing out here to copy a sweeper's boost, the opponent does. In that case you can't really do what you're suggesting. I would remove this and the sentences around it that relate to it.

"While poison can be crippling, Ditto will not be able to revenge kill Pokemon such as Zangoose or Guts users like Swellow, as their status affliction grant them a handy attack boost that Ditto lacks, allowing them to muscle past it with Quick Attack. To alleviate this Problem, entry hazard support from Golem and Scolipede can prove to be very useful in weakening the aforementioned threats."

  • I don't get what you mean by this. Ditto can revenge kill Zangoose with Scarf Close Combat and Swellow with Scarf Brave Bird. Yeah they can both eventually bring it down with Quick Attack if Ditto gets low enough, but I don't think this is worth mentioning. Remove it please.

Other Options should be: Choice Scarf is the only viable item on Ditto as it guarantees that it can outspeed a set-up sweeper. No other item can possibly replace the utility that Choice Scarf provides.

Other than that this is fine.
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GP check. Good job on writing this.
Additions in Blue
Subtractions in Red
Comments in Purple

[Overview]

<p>Ditto has been doing the same thing since its inception: transform transforming into its opponent. Imposter allows Ditto to copy the opponent almost flawlessly without wasting a turn setting up, allowing it revenge kill Pokemon, such as Shell Smash Gorebyss, Fraxure, Sawsbuck, and Shell Smash Carracosta. With a Choice Scarf attached, Ditto is guaranteed to outspeed those same offensive threats. Unfortunately, Ditto cannot copy the HP stat of its opponent, making it frailer than its target in most situations. (Ditto with full investment in HP has the equivalent of base 79.5 uninvested, while its targets that you mention all do not run HP investment except possible on other sets than their setup ones and have lower effective HP than Ditto, with the exception of Sawsbuck who has base 80 HP; I feel like this should be addressed in some form here) Do Due to having to carry a Choice Scarf, Ditto will always be limited to one type of move. As a result, Ditto has difficulty beating most setup sweepers, such as including Bulk Up Gurdurr, (remove comma) and Braviary, (change to semicolon) Swords Dance Scolipede, (remove comma) and Samurott, change to semicolon) and Calm Mind Serperior, (remove comma) and Musharna, making it an an inferior revenge-killer and thus failing at the only job it can do revenge killer (add comma) the one job it can actually do. This also makes it difficult for Ditto to pull its weight against defensively oriented teams, as its power is in the hands of the opponent and the opponent can often plow through it. While Ditto can work, it's far too situational to fit on most teams, as there are too many revenge killers in NU that can do its job more reliably.</p>

[SET]
name: Doppelganger
move 1: Transform
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:

item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 3 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Using a Choice Scarf, Ditto will be guaranteed to outspeed almost every offensive threat that it comes into contact with. The only reason Transform is there is because Ditto needs to have a move, (change to semicolon) otherwise, Transform it is completely useless. Despite what it may how it might seem, Ditto isn't just limited to being a revenge killer. Thanks to Imposter, when Ditto transforms, it is able to attain knowledge on of the opponents moveset, (change to semicolon) this information can prove to be invaluable when dealing with unpredictable Pokemon such as Golurk, Eelektross, and Samurott. In some cases, Ditto can even use moves like Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Aromatherapy to its advantage, thus supporting its teammates. Do keep in mind, that setup sweepers are rather uncommon in NU, even most offensive teams simply limit themselves to one. (this last sentence seems kind of clunky tacked on at the end here; I think you should consider adding some transition between 'Ditto can do other things besides revenge kill' and 'Ditto doesn't have many opportunities to copy setup sweepers')</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There are two things Ditto does not copy from the opponent, HP and IVs. The HP is maximized for this reason. When transforming into an opponent that possess Hidden Power, the above IVs give Ditto Hidden Power Grass, the most useful to defeat for defeating Water-types such as Gorebyss and Samurott, though it does leave Ditto to be as setup bait to for Sap Sipper and Grass-type Pokemon. Ditto can also change the IVs to 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 3 Spe to attain Hidden Power Electric, (remove comma) so that it can reliably revenge kill Mantine and Charizard; however, Ground-types such as Golem will be able to set up Stealth Rock on Ditto do whatever they please against Ditto if it gets locked into it.</p>

<p>Ditto will often be switching in and out through throughout the course of the match, so Poison-types such as Skuntank and Garbodor pair well with Ditto in for absorbing Toxic Spikes. Ditto pairs well with offensively orientated teams for two reasons. One, Ditto will be able to switch in easily to against Pokemon who are immune to their own attacks such as Zebstrika and Sawsbuck, giving its offensive team a handy bulwark from time to time. Two, Ditto cannot transform when a Pokemon is behind a Substitute, so, and offensive teammates such as Primeape and Ludicolo can put enough pressure on the opposition to the point where they will not be able to set up a Substitute prevent them setting one up.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Choice Scarf is the only viable item on Ditto as it guarantees that it can outspeed a set-up setup sweeper. No other item can possibly replace the utility that Choice Scarf provides.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Ditto is such a quirky Pokemon, (remove comma) that there really is nothing that "counters" it in the traditional sense. The best way to "counter" Ditto is to stop it from taking advantage of your team's entry hazard setter or setup sweeper, which at times can be cumbersome. The best way for offensive teams to deal with Ditto is for their setup sweeper to carry a run Substitute, as Ditto will not be able to transform when its target is behind one. Without a Substitute, it is too risky to use offensively orientated boosting moves. For balanced or stall teams, it is difficult to stop Ditto from coming in and taking advantage of your entry hazard setter or Rapid Spin user; however, Ditto will often be switching in and out through throughout the course of the match, so, (remove comma) setting up Stealth Rock at the beginning will do well in wearing it down. Something to keep in mind is that (add comma) when Ditto transforms, you know what moves it carries, so intelligent maneuvering and a little guesswork will help you defeat the pink menace it. Unburden Pokemon like Drifblim also deal well with Ditto well, as Ditto it will be unable to outspeed them because it will be equipped with a Choice Scarf does not copy its opponents' boosts from abilities (Ditto wouldn't get the Unburden boost even without Choice Scarf, as it would have to consume an item to activate Unburden anyway). The most efficient way to combat Ditto starts before the beginning of the match. So long as your team has proper defensive synergy, Ditto will only be a minor nuisance.</p>


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wanted to read over this, so I figured why not amcheck it \o/

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[Overview]

<p>Ditto has been doing the same thing since its inception: transforming into its opponent. With Imposter allows, Ditto is able (allows sounded redundant with "allowing" later in the sentence) to copy the opposing Pokemon and its stat boosts almost flawlessly without wasting a turn setting up, allowing it to revenge kill Pokemon (Pokemon was vague here imo) set-up sweepers, such as Shell Smash Gorebyss, Fraxure, Sawsbuck, and Shell Smash Carracosta. With a Choice Scarf attached, Ditto is guaranteed to outspeed those same offensive threats. Unfortunately, Ditto cannot copy the HP stat of its opponent, making it frailer than its target in most situations, as Ditto's fully invested HP stat is only equivalent to an uninvested base 79 HP stat. Due to havingBecause it needs to carry a Choice Scarf, Ditto will always be limited to one type of move. As a result, Ditto has difficulty beating most setup sweepers, including Bulk Up Gurdurr and Braviary; Swords Dance Scolipede and Samurott; and Calm Mind Serperior and Musharna, making it an an inferior revenge-killer, the one job it can actually do. This also makes it difficult for Ditto to pull its weight against defensively oriented teams, as its power is in the hands of the opponent and the opponent can often plow through it. While Ditto can work, it's far too situational to fit on most teams, as there are too many revenge killers in NU that can do its job more reliably.</p>

[SET]
name: Doppelganger
move 1: Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 3 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Using a Choice Scarf, Ditto will be guaranteed to outspeed almost every offensive threat that it comes into contact with. The only reason Transform is there is because Ditto needs to have a move; otherwise, it is completely useless. Despite how it might seem, Ditto isn't just limited to being a revenge killer. Thanks to Imposter, when Ditto transforms, it is able to attain knowledge of the opponent'(add apostrophe)s moveset, t. This information can prove to be invaluable when dealing with unpredictable Pokemon,(AC) such as Golurk, Eelektross, and Samurott. In some cases, Ditto can even use moves like Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Aromatherapy to its advantage, thus supporting its teammates. Often(remove space)times, Ditto's frailty makes it difficult for it to switch into a setup sweeper and take advantage of its boost, so wise prediction is necessary on your part to get it in safely. Even if Ditto does get the chance, do keep in mind,(remove comma) that setup sweepers are rather uncommon in NU,;(comma -> semicolon) even most offensive teams simply limit themselves to one.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There are two things Ditto does not copy from the opponent, —(insert em dash)HP and IVs. HP is maximized for this reason. When transforming into an opponent that possess Hidden Power, the above IVs give Ditto Hidden Power Grass, the most useful for defeating Water-types that often carry Hidden Power,(AC) such as Gorebyss and Samurott, though it does leave Ditto to be setup bait to Sap Sipper and Grass-type Pokemon. Ditto can also change the IVs to 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 3 Spe to attain Hidden Power Electric,(remove comma) so that it can reliably revenge kill Mantine and Charizard; however, Ground-types such as Golem will be able to do whatever they please against Ditto if it gets locked into it.</p>

<p>Ditto will often be switching in and out throughout the course of the match, so Poison-types such as Skuntank and Garbodor pair well with Ditto in order to absorbing Toxic Spikes. Ditto pairs well with offensively orientated teams for two reasons. OneFirst, Ditto will be able to switch in easily to Pokemon who are immune to their own attacks,(AC) such as Zebstrika and Sawsbuck, giving its offensive team a ha. Second (this sounded super awkward to me, and it's sort of fluff anyways, so I'd personally prefer it if it were cut)
y bulwark from time to time. Two, Ditto cannot transform when a Pokemon is behind a Substitute, so,(remove comma) offensive teammates, such as Primeape and Ludicolo, can put enough pressure on the opposition to the point where they will not be able to set up a Substitute.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Choice Scarf is the only viable item on Ditto, as it guarantees that it can outspeed setup sweepers. No other item can possibly replace the utility that Choice Scarf provides.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Ditto is such a quirky Pokemon that there really is nothing that "counters" it in the traditional sense. The best way to "counter" Ditto is to stop it from taking advantage of your team's entry hazard setter or setup sweeper, which at times can be cumbersome at times. The best way for offensive teams to deal with Ditto is for their setup sweeper to run a Substitute, as Ditto will not be able to transform when its target is behind one. Without a Substitute, it is too risky to use offensively orientated boosting moves. For balanced or stall teams, it is difficult to stop Ditto from coming in and taking advantage of your entry hazard setter or Rapid Spin user; however, Ditto will often be switching in and out throughout the course of the match, so,(remove comma) setting up Stealth Rock at the beginning will do well inhelp to wearing it down. Something to keep in mind is that when Ditto transforms, you know what moves it carries, so intelligent maneuvering and a little guesswork will help you defeat it. Unburden Pokemon like, such as Drifblim, also deal well with Ditto, as Ditto will be unable to outspeed them because it does not copy its opponents' boosts from the abilitiesy. The most efficient way to combat Ditto starts before the beginning of the match. S; so long as your team has proper defensive synergy, Ditto will only be a minor nuisance.</p>
 

phantom

Banned deucer.
Thanks Treecko, implemented. There were just two things I didn't count. I don't like starting sentences off with "Because" and I've been advised not to use the term "in order to" in that specific context. Other than that, your changes were cool, thanks. :)
 
[Overview]

<p>Ditto has been doing the same thing since its inception: transforming into its opponent. With Imposter, Ditto is able copy the opposing Pokemon and its stat boosts almost flawlessly without wasting a turn setting up, allowing it to revenge kill setup sweepers, such as Shell Smash Gorebyss, Fraxure, Sawsbuck, and Shell Smash Carracosta. With a Choice Scarf attached, Ditto is guaranteed to outspeed those same offensive threats. Unfortunately, Ditto cannot copy the HP stat of its opponent, making it frailer than its target in most situations, as Ditto's fully invested HP stat is only equivalent to an uninvested base 79 HP stat. Due to having to As it must carry a Choice Scarf, Ditto will always be limited to one type of move. As a result, Ditto has difficulty beating most setup sweepers, including Bulk Up Gurdurr and Braviary; Swords Dance Scolipede and Samurott; and Calm Mind Serperior and Musharna, making it an inferior revenge-killer, the one job it can actually do. This also makes it difficult for Ditto to pull its weight against defensively oriented teams, as its power is in the hands of the opponent and the opponent can often plow through it. While Ditto can work, it's far too situational to fit on most teams, as there are too many revenge killers in NU that can do its job more reliably.</p>

[SET]
name: Doppelganger
move 1: Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 3 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Using a Choice Scarf, Ditto will be guaranteed to outspeed almost every offensive threat that it comes into contact with. The only reason Transform is there is because Ditto needs to have a move; otherwise, it is completely useless. Despite how it might seem, Ditto isn't just limited to being a revenge killer. Thanks to Imposter, when Ditto transforms, it is able to attain knowledge of the opponent's moveset. This information can prove to be invaluable when dealing with unpredictable Pokemon, such as Golurk, Eelektross, and Samurott. In some cases, Ditto can even use moves like such as Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Aromatherapy to its advantage, thus supporting its teammates. Oftentimes, Ditto's frailty makes it difficult for it to switch into a setup sweeper and take advantage of its boost, so wise prediction is necessary on your part to get it in safely. Even if Ditto does get the chance, do keep in mind that setup sweepers are rather uncommon in NU; even most offensive teams simply generally / tend to is the word/phrase you're looking for here imo limit themselves to one.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>There are two things Ditto does not copy from the opponent&mdash;HP and IVs. HP is maximized for this reason. When transforming into an opponent that possess Hidden Power, the above IVs give Ditto Hidden Power Grass, the most useful for defeating Water-types that often carry Hidden Power, such as Gorebyss and Samurott, though it does leave Ditto to be setup bait to Sap Sipper and Grass-type Pokemon. Ditto can also change the IVs to 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 3 Spe to attain Hidden Power Electric so that it can reliably revenge kill Mantine and Charizard; however, Ground-types such as Golem will be able to do whatever they please against Ditto if it gets locked into it.</p>

<p>Ditto will often be switching in and out throughout the course of the match, so Poison-types such as Skuntank and Garbodor pair well with Ditto in absorbing Toxic Spikes. Ditto pairs well with offensively orientated teams for two reasons. First, Ditto will be able to switch in easily to into Pokemon who are immune to their own attacks,(comma) such as Zebstrika and Sawsbuck. Second, Ditto cannot transform when a Pokemon is behind a Substitute, so offensive teammates such as Primeape and Ludicolo,(remove) can put enough pressure on the opposition to the point where they will not be able to set up a Substitute.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Choice Scarf is the only viable item on Ditto, as it guarantees that it Ditto can outspeed setup sweepers. No other item can possibly replace the utility that Choice Scarf provides.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Ditto is such a quirky Pokemon that there really is nothing that "counters" it in the traditional sense. The best way to "counter" Ditto is to stop it from taking advantage of your team's entry hazard setter or setup sweeper, which can be cumbersome troublesome at times. The best way for offensive teams to deal with Ditto is for their setup sweeper to run a Substitute, as Ditto will not be able to transform when its target is behind one. Without a Substitute, it is too risky to use offensively orientated boosting moves. For balanced or stall teams, it is difficult to stop Ditto from coming in and taking advantage of your entry hazard setter or Rapid Spin user; however, Ditto will often be switching in and out throughout the course of the match, so setting up Stealth Rock at the beginning will help wear it down. Something to keep in mind is that when Ditto transforms, you know what moves it carries, so intelligent maneuvering and a little guesswork will help you defeat it. Unburden Pokemon,(remove) such as Drifblim also deal well with Ditto, as Ditto will be unable to outspeed them because it does not copy its opponents' boosts from the ability. The most efficient way to combat Ditto starts before the beginning of the match; so long as your team has proper defensive synergy, Ditto will only be a minor nuisance.</p>
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