GG Ditto (QC 2/2) (GP 1/1)

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longhiep341

longhiep341

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[SET]
name: Revenge Killer (Any)
move 1: Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Quiet
ivs: 0 Spe
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
Ditto is an effective revenge killer in the Godly Gift metagame thanks to its unique ability in Imposter, which, when combined with a Choice Scarf, allows it to outspeed any Pokemon without Choice Scarf or Unburden. Transformation copies donated stats, allowing Ditto to still outspeed Speed receivers and hit as hard as Attack receivers. Imposter's also useful against stall teams by effectively giving infinite PP and copying recovery moves. Ditto prefers having its Choice Scarf removed against stall teams to switch moves and maximize its PP stall capabilities. 252 HP EVs boost the only stat Ditto retains after Imposter activates, while 252 Special Attack EVs and a Quiet nature boost its Future Sight after transforming into a Pokemon like Slowking.

Ditto almost exclusively finds its place on stall teams to handle offensive setup threats that its teammates struggle to handle. It struggles to switch in directly against most foes, so slow pivot moves make for great support. Examples include Teleport from Slowbro or Slowking and U-turn from Corviknight. Entry hazards prevent Ditto from switching in repeatedly, so teammates that can reliably remove them such as Mandibuzz and Ho-Oh are appreciated. Unaware users like Pyukumuku, Quagsire, and Clefable or Clear Smog users like Gastrodon and Amoonguss can handle bulky setup Pokemon with recovery, such as Calm Mind Galarian Slowking and Bulk Up Buzzwole, which outlast Ditto one-on-one. An ally with Regenerator, such as the aforementioned Slowbro or Ho-Oh, in tandem with Ditto can outstall defensive Regenerator Pokemon, effectively forcing them out. A defensive god with a high HP stat like Giratina theoretically complements Ditto well, but Ditto is able to go in any teamslot, especially the Attack and Special Attack slots, which stall teams don't benefit from much anyway. While the HP increase is beneficial, another bulky Pokemon can often take better advantage of it, usually Skarmory.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Since Ditto needs Choice Scarf to ensure its ability to revenge kill, it shouldn't run any other item.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Substitute Sweepers**: Ditto can't copy foes behind a Substitute, completely failing to threaten them.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Pokemon with Choice Scarf force a coinflip against Ditto, making it less reliable.

**Bulky Setup Pokemon with Recovery**: Ditto struggles to revenge kill bulky foes like Iron Defense Skarmory and Calm Mind Kyogre without critical hits.

**Item Removal**: Without Choice Scarf, Ditto risks losing the Speed tie against Pokemon it's supposed to check.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[longhiep341, 500884]]
- Quality checked by: [[UT, 523866], [beauts, 484270]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]
 
Last edited:
add remove conjecture
[SET]
name: Revenge Killer (HP Any) Ditto really should just go in your dump stat
move 1: Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Quiet Relaxed
ivs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def technically this is the best spread since it helps in the rare Ditto-Ditto match up

[SET COMMENTS]
Ditto is an effective revenge killer in the Godly Gift metagame thanks to its unique ability in Imposter, which when combined with a Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed any Pokemon without Choice Scarf or Unburden. Ditto does copy donated stats when transforming allowing it to still outspeed Speed receivers and hit as hard as Attack receivers. It's also useful against stall teams by effectively having infinite PP and copying recovery moves. It prefers having its Choice Scarf removed in this case to maximize its PP stall capabilities and the ability to switch moves. 252 248 HP is required since that's the only stat Ditto retains after its Imposter activates, while 252 SpA and a Quiet nature boosts its Future Sight after transforming into a Pokemon like Slowking while 252 Defense EVs and a Relaxed nature help with the rare Ditto-Ditto mirror match. future sight will still hit like a wet noodle, I think this is more relevant

Ditto almost exclusively finds its place on stall teams to handle foes with offensive setup options that its other teammates struggle to handle. It struggles to switch in directly against most foes, therefore Pokemon that provide a slow pivot make for great partners. Examples include Teleport from Slowbro and Slowking or U-Turn U-turn from Corviknight. Entry hazards prevent Ditto from switching in repeatedly, therefore teammates that can reliably remove them such as Mandibuzz and Ho-Oh are appreciated. Unaware users like Pyukumuku and Clefable or Haze users like? can handle bulky setup Pokemon with recovery, which outlast Ditto one-on-one. An ally with Regenerator such as the aforementioned Slowbro and Ho-Oh in tandem with Ditto can outstall defensive Pokemon with Regenerator, effectively forcing them out. A defensive god with a high HP stat like Giratina complements Ditto well, but Ditto usually goes in whatever slot your team does not benefit from. While the HP increase is beneficial, defensive teams would generally rather give the HP to Skarmory or another defensive stalwart.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Even though a better HP stat increases Ditto's ability to revenge kill, it can be used in any other team slot if it's vital for another teammate since Ditto won't switch in directly most of the time. Iron Ball is a choice if Ditto wants to specifically target Trick Room teams, however that means it's essentially deadweight against any other team style, so Choice Scarf is the sole option it should go with. honestly, I would go with "no other viable options" here

Checks and Counters
===================

**Substitute Sweepers**: Ditto can't copy foes behind a Substitute, allowing them to ignore it completely.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Pokemon with Choice Scarf forces a coinflip against Ditto, making it less reliable.

**Bulky Setup Pokemon With Recovery**: Ditto struggles to revenge kill bulky foes like Iron Defense Skarmory or Calm Mind Kyogre without critical hits.

**Item Removal**: Without Choice Scarf, Ditto risks losing the speed tie against Pokemon it's supposed to check.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[longhiep341, 500884]]
- Quality checked by: [[UT, 523866], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
QC 1/2, just some minor additions and clean up.

QC Stamp.gif
 
I have implemented the additions, however with some adjustments from my part. I removed the Haze part when I noticed there actually isn't a common Pokemon on stall team with it bar Quagsire which not always uses it while Gastrodon and Amoonguss are seen more often and almost always run Clear Smog.
I also decided to keep Ditto's EV as is. The first reason is because Ditto is much rarer than the Slowtwins, so the scenario where you use Future Sight and switch out will come up much more often than the Ditto mirror matchup. That's not to mention, since a Ditto mirror match means it's most likely a Stall mirror match, it will be even more unlikely for both players to have 5 mons down each at the same time and have Ditto last. It's more likely the game will reach 1000 turns. Secondly, the Future Sight damage jump is very big. You go from 132 to 214 SpA, which actually makes Future Sight hurt offensive mons quite a bit. Slowtwins are commonly seen in balanced teams as well, so chances are they don't want their offensive threats to take Future Sight and try to switch back into their Slowtwin, which you can take advantage of.
Edit: I also saw other tiers analyses and some of them indeed have Max SpA Ditto. I also asked Osake and pannuracotta regarding this and I think this has more merits.
 
add remove conjecture

longhiep341 said:
[SET]
name: Revenge Killer (Any)
move 1: Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Quiet
ivs: 0 Spe
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
Ditto is an effective revenge killer in the Godly Gift metagame thanks to its unique ability in Imposter, which when combined with a Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed any Pokemon without Choice Scarf or Unburden. Ditto does copy copies donated stats when transforming allowing it to still outspeed Speed receivers and hit as hard as Attack receivers. It's also useful against stall teams by effectively having infinite PPs and copying recovery moves. It Ditto prefers having its Choice Scarf removed in this case these cases to maximize its PP stall capabilities and the its ability to switch moves. 252 HP is required since that's the only stat Ditto retains after its Imposter activates, while 252 SpA and a Quiet nature boost its Future Sight after transforming into a Pokemon like Slowking.

Ditto almost exclusively finds its place on stall teams to handle foes with offensive setup options that its other teammates struggle to handle. It struggles to switch in directly against most foes, therefore Pokemon that provide a slow pivot make for great partners. Examples include Teleport from Slowbro and Slowking or U-turn from Corviknight. Entry hazards prevent Ditto from switching in repeatedly, therefore teammates that can reliably remove them such as Mandibuzz and Ho-Oh are appreciated. Unaware users like Pyukumuku, Quagsire, and Clefable or Clear Smog users like Gastrodon and Amoonguss can handle bulky setup Pokemon with recovery add examples (could be NDM, Espeon, other CM mons, etc) , which outlast Ditto one-on-one. An ally with Regenerator such as the aforementioned Slowbro and Ho-Oh in tandem with Ditto can outstall defensive Pokemon with Regenerator, effectively forcing them out. A defensive god with a high HP stat like Giratina complements Ditto well, but Ditto usually goes in whatever slot your team Ditto is able to go in any slot that your team does not benefit from. rephrased While the HP increase is beneficial, defensive teams would rather give the HP to Skarmory or another defensive stalwart usually benefit from giving the HP to another Pokemon rephrased.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Since Ditto needs Choice Scarf to ensure its ability to revenge kill, it shouldn't run any other item.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Substitute Sweepers**: Ditto can't copy foes behind a Substitute, allowing them to ignore it Imposter completely.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Pokemon with Choice Scarf force a coinflip against Ditto, making it less reliable.

**Bulky Setup Pokemon with Recovery**: Ditto struggles to revenge kill bulky foes like Iron Defense Skarmory or Calm Mind Kyogre without critical hits.

**Item Removal**: Without Choice Scarf, Ditto risks losing the speed tie against Pokemon it's supposed to check.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[longhiep341, 500884]]
- Quality checked by: [[UT, 523866], [beauts, 484270]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
Click to expand...

qc 2/2 good work, sorry for the wait
 
Last edited:
Add/Fix Remove Comment
(AC): Add Comma
[SET]
name: Revenge Killer (Any)
move 1: Transform
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Imposter
nature: Quiet
ivs: 0 Spe
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
Ditto is an effective revenge killer in the Godly Gift metagame thanks to its unique ability in Imposter, which, (AC) when combined with a Choice Scarf, (AC) allows it to outspeed any Pokemon without Choice Scarf or Unburden. Ditto copies donated stats when transforming allowing it Transformation copies donated stats, allowing Ditto to still outspeed Speed receivers and hit as hard as Attack receivers. It's Imposter's also useful against stall teams by effectively having infinite PPs giving infinite PP and copying recovery moves. Ditto prefers having its Choice Scarf removed in these cases to maximize its PP stall capabilities and its ability to switch moves. 252 HP is required since that's against stall teams to switch moves and maximize its PP stall capabilities. 252 HP EVs boost the only stat Ditto retains after its Imposter activates, while 252 Special Attack EVs and a Quiet nature boost its Future Sight after transforming into a Pokemon like Slowking.

Ditto almost exclusively finds its place on stall teams to handle foes with offensive setup options offensive setup threats that its other teammates struggle to handle. It struggles to switch in directly against most foes, therefore Pokemon that provide a slow pivot make for great partners. so slow pivot moves make for great support. Examples include Teleport from Slowbro and Slowking or or Slowking and U-turn from Corviknight. Entry hazards prevent Ditto from switching in repeatedly, therefore so teammates that can reliably remove them such as Mandibuzz and Ho-Oh are appreciated. Unaware users like Pyukumuku, Quagsire, and Clefable or Clear Smog users like Gastrodon and Amoonguss can handle bulky setup Pokemon with recovery, (AC) such as Calm Mind Galarian Slowking and Bulk Up Buzzwole, which outlast Ditto one-on-one. An ally with Regenerator, (AC) such as the aforementioned Slowbro and or Ho-Oh, (AC) in tandem with Ditto can outstall defensive Pokemon with Regenerator, (I assume this "with Regenerator" applied to "An ally"? If it applied to "defensive Pokemon", say "defensive Regenerator Pokemon") effectively forcing them out. A defensive god with a high HP stat like Giratina theoretically complements Ditto well, but Ditto is able to go in any teamslot, especially the Attack and Special Attack, that your team wants a revenge killer and setup deterrent over another wall with slightly increased offensive presence. Attack slots, which stall teams don't benefit from much anyway. While the HP increase is beneficial, defensive teams usually benefit more from giving the HP to another bulky Pokemon that can take advantage of it, another bulky Pokemon can often take better advantage of it, usually Skarmory.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Since Ditto needs Choice Scarf to ensure its ability to revenge kill, it shouldn't run any other item.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Substitute Sweepers**: Ditto can't copy foes behind a Substitute, allowing them to ignore Imposter completely. completely failing to threaten them.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Pokemon with Choice Scarf forces a coinflip against Ditto, making it less reliable.

**Bulky Setup Pokemon with Recovery**: Ditto struggles to revenge kill bulky foes sweepers (I imagine this makes sense?) like Iron Defense Skarmory or and Calm Mind Kyogre without critical hits.

**Item Removal**: Without Choice Scarf, Ditto risks losing the Speed tie against Pokemon it's supposed to check.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[longhiep341, 500884]]
- Quality checked by: [[UT, 523866], [beauts, 484270]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]
finland-GP.gif
1/1
 
Thank you, I have implemented the changes, however one small part that I think might need a change is "Ditto struggles to revenge kill bulky sweepers like Iron Defense Skarmory and Calm Mind Kyogre without critical hits." I wouldn't say Iron Defense Skarmory is a bulky sweeper, it uses Iron Defense more often to handle bulky physical setup rather than attempt to sweep, so I'd like opinion on if foes or another word suits this sentence better.
 
in that case foes is fine. if you'd like to wait more for opinions from more metagame-knowledgable people, that's fine too. :psyglad:
 
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