SS OU DLC 2 TR, would like a little help.

[ezlaturbo]

So, I woke up this morning and thought, I need to make a new OU team. After looking at the new mons, it seems we're getting more and more fast powerful attackers, which might make BO and Balance struggle. My thought was to counter their speed and take advantage of frailness, so I thought, TR. But a big problem with TR is momentum, it often has trouble pivoting and such, sending in a breaker/sweeper and spamming attacks under TR. Now, I know TR is less viable in Singles than Doubles, but with some momentum, it might work. Also, A-Maro, one of my favorite mons loves TR. So here's the team:

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Trick Room
- Thunderbolt/Dazzling Gleam/Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam

I thought, what better momentum than U-turn? But its candidates are all too fast or frail. Same deal with Flip Turn and Parting Shot had nothing. So, Volt Switch gives the base 65 speed Magearna, with nice Bolt-Beam coverage. I think it might be a bit too frail, and in the few battles I did, I came up against fast HO or momentum based teams, to which Magearna died very fast. I'm not sure I should be using it in this capacity. However, under TR, this can help wallbreak, though I think I want another slow Turner if I am to keep using it. Then I can consistently keep momentum.

Glastrier @ Life Orb
Ability: Chilling Neigh
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
- Close Combat
- Icicle Crash
- Rest/SD
- Crunch

This was the building point, but I thought about removing it as it doesn't help much. It sadly lacks Gyro Ball, and it lacks great coverage. I ran rest initially because I was using Body Press to compliment its great defense stat, but it seems that Close Combat is better, and that would allow me to run SD. I'm honestly not sure about the spread on this one either, if I should run more defense or special defense, due to all the attackers around. LO was for more power, but Leftovers might be better. If I were to replace mons, I would replace this one and Tangrowth.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Heal Bell/Teleport
- Protect
- Moonblast

Every team's gotta have a Clef, huh? I'm not sure how good it is now, but I ran it initially to cleric A-Maro, and thought WishPort is good for momentum. I tried to make it a mixed build, though maybe I should have run Bold. Or maybe make it entirely special and let Tangrowth specialize in the physical? I initially ran Heal Bell for Rest, as Burns and Para don't annoy this team much, but if I drop Rest, Port is nice momentum. Also, still OHKOs most Urshifu and Hydreigon. Not sure if I should run something else in its place, as Regencore helps, and I don't really have many opportunities to heal A-Maro.

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Teleport
- Scald
- Slack Off

My main TR setter, a mixed build. I chose this TR setter due to being the slowest user of Teleport and TR. IDK which is better, Slowking, or Slowbro. The point was that they can take 2 hits easy, and get their HP back with Regenerator or wish if needed. Slack Off too, is for longevity, but maybe I would replace it for Psyshock or Psychic? And should this be changed to Slowbro or the spread tweaked? I have no idea if this is optimal, or if it isn't, how to make it better.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flare Blitz
- Poltergeist
- Bonemerang

My wallbreaker and lead. I used a fast A-Maro lead with much the same set in DLC 1, on another Wish-Port team originally by JerSD, but tweaked. I found that this can sweep on low HP, and after setting rocks, it can usually swap to Clef or King easily, wait for them to set TR, then destroy the frail opposing team, swap out after TR ends, and repeat. It doesn't like priority Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, or Accelrock, all problems for it. Indeedee could help with that, but not sure if it's worth it.

Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 244 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake

My grass type to complete the FWG core, and the Regencore. I'm not really sure about the spread, I think I might let it specialize and run Rocky Helmet Leech Seed, but not sure how that would work or look in this new meta. I know Amoongus is an option too, I just don't know at this point, outside of my 2 breakers, who can destroy opposing team by themselves, my team feels a tad too passive. IDK about Ferro, or Appletun. My main reason for Appletun would be defensive utility and FSD core. It doesn't have to be a grass type, but overall, this team feels too passive and I don't know what to do about it.


Edit: After experimentation, I specialized Tangrowth, replaced Clef with Stakataka/Melmetal/Doublade and am experimenting with Vikavolt, Future Sight Oranguru, Conkeldurr/Eviolite Gurdurr and Golisopod. Vikavolt to cover the special side, same with Oranguru as a TR setter with Future Sight support, and the last 2 as Priority to help in and out of TR.

 

[Gross Sweep]

Hey ezlaturbo congrats on being the first person to post a DLC2 RMT if I'm not mistaken. Trick Room has always been a really cool play style that's fun to experiment with, especially as a new meta is forming. You did a great job of identifying momentum as one of the key aspects of creating a solid Trick Room team. With that in mind I'd like to suggest a trinity of setters from SM OU that worked together to form a great group of setters that kept momentum high and teams on schedule.


These three are tried and true when it comes to setting Trick Room while also keeping up a teams momentum, and I would strongly suggest you give them a try as you experiment with Trick Room in the new DLC. Magearna serves as an offensive setter that can set up Trick Room, and then actually take advantage offensively on its own. It can be nice to just set room and start going to work without having to figure out how you're going to bring in a different abuser. Uxie will be your lead in most games, and is good at reliably getting Stealth Rock and Trick Room up reliably, while keeping up momentum with memento allowing you to get in an abuser safely. Cresselia is a very bulky setter that can get up Trick Room once or twice in the midgame being able to take a hit from pretty much anything. On top of its stellar bulk Lunar Dance allows Cresselia on free heal up and switch into an abuser like Alolan Marowak during the game. I know it can be a little odd to look at a team structure where you have 2 mons designed to take themselves out, but Trick Room is all about efficency and finishing games quickly which this structure does very well. I am yet to see a group of mons do a better job at facilitating Trick Room than these three.

Now let's talk about abusers. On Trick Room Pokemon either need to set up Trick Room or be a hard hitting abuser. This leaves mons like defensive Clefable and AV Tangrowth on the outside looking in when it comes to being effective Trick Room abusers. You started to figure this out with the edit you made replacing Clefable, but I believe we can take it a step further really turning up the pressure. The first thing change would be Swords Dance > Stealth Rock on Alolan Marowak. With Uxie providing Rocks Marowak now has a free slot, and Swords Dance is the perfect fit. This change will be great vs bulkier teams that can't pressure Marowak offensively on a consistent basis allowing Marowak to really rip through fat.

Next I would also replace Clefable. You mentioned trying some steels out, which I completely agree with. You brought up Melmetal and Stakataka which are both good options. I would probably start off with Melmetal, but definitely test them out and see which one you prefer. I would probably go with a Choice Band set on Melmetal like this. The set has good coverage and should put in a lot of work versus a variety of teams.

For the final slot we have some flexibility. You can definitely try out Glastrier. If you do I would go with Swords Dance > Rest, and try out Heavy Duty Boots for the item. That said I have some other suggestions that could work in this slot. You mentioned wanting to try some priority users that could help revenge kill outside of Trick Room. I think two mons worth trying that fill that role are Conkeldurr and Crawdaunt. Both of these mons abuse Trick Room extremely well, while also providing your team with some priority. They also have some decent defensive synergy with the team as Conk provides another Dark Resist and Daunt provides the team with another Dark resist and a Ghost Resist, which is nice to have with two Psychics and a Ghost type. Though it's worth noting between Melmetal and Glastrier you have several mons that can practically eat any one hit making resist less mandatory (also cress will still probably eat up any one hit even if it's a Ghost/Dark type move).

That's all I have for now. At this point no one has a really good grasp of the meta so everything is subject to change at a moments notice, but this should help give you a good start towards making some solid Trick Room. Hope this helped a bit.

 

[ezlaturbo]

Thanks for the help, I'm also running it by some other comp playing friends of mine, so, would I replace Slowbro with Uxie? I have been experimenting with Body Press Gyro Ball SR Stakataka, as it sets TR. I would have used an old fave, Escavalier, if it got Gyro Ball, as in BH it absolutely wrecks. Would I drop Slowbro? I have Magearna, a steel, Slowbro, and A-Maro. I could put Uxie, and that would make 3 setters. I don't feel the need to boost A-Maro in this meta as nothing appreciates switching into a Flare Blitz or Poltergeist. The only time I get stalled out is when I Bonemerang into a Flying type, which wastes some TR. I was thinking P-up Punch for more coverage, not sure if it matters. Not much can swap into it under TR, so I was thinking maybe sub for anti priority? And if I do replace Slow, I think that would mean I lose on setting TR consistently, forcing Stakataka. So adding Uxie, and Cresselia, and dropping maybe Magearna or King, and then Conkeldurr. I dropped Glastrier, as it was kinda of bad typing wise and didn't offer much in movepool. Magearna is an abuser more than a setter, while King sets consistently and is a nice bulky water eating most unboosted hits. Gut Conk with the standard Knock Off Facade right? I'd use Conk to help vs some faster threats and Daunt himself. I prefer to use unconventional mons, or at least less used ones, so that's why i said Doublade, which can also help vs BD Azu. Melmetal prob is better, though I'm still wondering about some slow special breakers. How good is Vikavolt? Momentum, High stats other than speed but kinda shallow movepool. Good typing and immunity tho.

 

[Gross Sweep]

Firstly the SD on Marowak is so that you can set up on something you have a favorable match up against and then it's harder for them to bring in something that tanks one hit and revenge kills. Like a -1 Alowak vs a Lando-t is very different than +1 Alowak vs Lando-T when it comes to forcing out/stopping Marowak and wasting your Trick Room turns.

Also on the set of mons the 6 would have looked something like Uxie / Cress / Magearna / Melmetal / Alolan Marowak / and then some flexibility with Glastrier or Crawdaunt or Conkeldurr (I included sets to try for these two in my rate, their names are links in the post). If you were going to slot in Stakataka it would probably be over Magearna, but I personally think Magearna is the better option. That said I would not worry about having a strong special attacker just to have one. When building a team like this you should worry about handling threats and breaking specific mons you'll encounter in the tier, not balancing special and physical attackers. And Vikavolt is not that good in OU.

 

[ezlaturbo]

I mean, I am running SD, and I was a bit worried about residual RH chip. That being RH Ferro who makes it easier to revenge kill Melmetal and annoys Maro, though it gets oneshot. I also had trouble against the new legend birbs as they make it annoying to set/abuse TR. I've been running Ice Punch on Melmetal for the annoying Zygarde and Lando matchups, too. That and LO on Mel. I've been running conk, works well except vs Zapdos Galar. It struggles with Regielektri under terrain too, with no resists or swap ins, and Cresselia takes about 60%. Genesect leads destroy Uxie before it can move, and probably other strong turners like Zapdos-G and Cinderace. The Slowpoke line, esp. Slowking-G annoys this team to no end, under TR it outspeeds Conk, and base forms can OHKO Maro, so any Slow is annoying.
https://pokepast.es/d70d3a528781cb8a

 

[Gross Sweep]

So I'm going to say the meta is still really new and people are still figuring it out so if you're planning to build a Trick Room team without some weaknesses at this point in the meta you're being unrealistic. You're just going to have to accept bad match ups with this type of team. Also to address some issues.

252 Atk Choice Band Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 116+ Def Uxie: 216-254 (61 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You are really underestimating how fat Uxie is, be it Genesect or G-Zapdos they wont stop you from getting up Trick Room and getting off to the races clicking buttons with heavy hitters. If you click on the 3 sprites in my earlier rate there are sets for Magearna, Cress, and Uxie I recommend you try those out.

Next you need to put zero IVs on your mons. with zero speed IVs Marowak and and Conk will hit 85 speed, most slowking/bros will still have 31 IVs meaning they'll hit 96 speed and you'll outpace them under Trick Room. It's a little thing, but it's absolutely necessary for Trick Room Teams. Also Banded MelMetal is probably your best bet vs those as it can take any one hit with ease and fire back with Double Iron Bash or Thunder Punch accordingly. And Magearna takes them on well enough that combined with Melmetal if you're consistently just getting stomped by them it may start to fall into a bit of user error not understanding the mons.

G-Zapdos is still definitely an issue, but all the setters can pretty much eat one hit and then you memento/Lunar Dance or attack with Magearna and you're back to clicking buttons. On Trick Room you're trying to end most games in under 20 turns, so the idea that they can only eat one hit isn't a major issue since none of your abusers are weak enough to let G-Zapdos come in and eat a hit vs them. Even Conk has a chance to kill G-Zapdos from full with Facade. And with Regieleki that's a tough one, you'll need to take advantage of room never letting it come in, which shouldn't be hard as it's super frail, and then maybe sack cress up to reset up room if it gets in under terrain and then go back on the offensive and try to end it quickly.

As I mentioned earlier you are not going to make the perfect team today, and on top of that it's Trick Room, so you're always going to have bad matchups. It's an inherently inconsistent team style that was only hurt this generation losing Z moves which helped grab quick kills. At this point I would just keep testing, but I really wouldn't expect a rate that fixes all the problems you run into at this point in time.

 

[ezlaturbo]

I don't see the benefits of not being able to counter whatever comes into play, and it seems that Ice Punch would be superior over Superpower, as it was used for things like M. Gyarados in previous gens and Melmetal, which EQ covers nicely, and BoltBeam coverage works better when allowed to freely switch between. Are there any notable differences for that, as this has been more a blanket check. Also, is there possibly something that could abuse TR that isn't Ground weak? There are 2 immunities, but they are support, and the only time Cresselia would be used to attack is vs something like Lando or possibly Garchomp. Also, Zygarde bypasses Levitate. I understand there will be weaknesses, my goal is to build a team that can deal with those weaknesses, and I do try to not ask on everything, and come up with checks myself. Isn't the point of teambuilding to come up with a strat that can adapt to deal with it's weaknesses? I know nothing is perfect, but I'm just tryna be better, and along the way, use some unconventional mons and strats. I know nothing is settled, and that's actually a good reason for me to improve my team rn, so that I can test it against this chaotic mess, which provides the benefit of different experiences. Also, why not Volt Switch on Magearna? IK it is an abuser, but being able to create momentum against checks, and being able to set TR for others seems like a good reason over power? I've been running Switch, Beam(Bolt/Gleam).

 

[Gross Sweep]

I haven't really addressed your Melmetal set since it's not the biggest deal. I haven't mentioned Ice Punch not being a good move at any point in our conversations. If it works for you it works for you. It's the first day, I haven't tested Melmetal myself on Trick Room, my initial post was just to give you some initial ground work to fix some of the glaring structural holes your team had when posted, so I used a cookie cutter set.

When it comes to non Ground weaks there is tons of stuff you can try, like Crawdaunt who is probably who I would have added off the bat. Or you can dig deeper and try something like a Primarina or anything else. Just scroll through the OU tier list for stuff with High Attack and Special Attack with a low speed stat. That said though Cresselia is support it is still packing ice beam and moonlight. When it comes to checking stuff like Chomp, Lando, and Zygarde it's actually one of the best out there, and scares them into switching out. The idea is that your abusers are mostly only out there under Trick Room, so if you need to stomach ground type moves it's ok to lean on Cresselia for that role. I also suggested Shuca Berry on my initial Magearna set, which helps you eat a ground type move then KO back. You'll pretty much eat any one hit and be able to set room or kill back.

I prefer Thunderbolt on Magearna since you're really only setting Trick Room with Magearna for itself. You set Trick Room when you think you can get 1-2 kills, not to Volt into something else. Especially since it's now a fast Volt Switch under Trick Room and your abuser will have to take a hit.

That said, there really isn't anything else I can help you with on this team. Good luck!

 

[ezlaturbo]

K, thanks. Just one more question about your Magerna set, why the dual STABs? Why not Boltbeam? Does Flash cannon hit something major?

 

[M4RK5M4N]

I would just say Flash Cannon just does better than Bolt Beam. Bolt Beam isn't really useful.

 

[ezlaturbo]

Why not? It can't hit Ferro.

 

[M4RK5M4N]

Also, (this is just my preference), Swords Dance is better on Glastrier over Rest because Rest just wastes turns while you could just swap out to take less damage. Also, try and get like Hatterene or something slow with Hazard Control because the constant swapping of Pokemon with Rocks or Spikes will do quite a bit.

 

[ezlaturbo]

Not using Glastrier anymore. What would you replace from the update team with Hatterene? I mean, Lunar Dance can basically heal chip, and I have 4 TR sweepers each of which can be used at least once. 1 full heal, and Mel and or Maro usually get at least 2 KOs.

 

[M4RK5M4N]

Can you post the Pokepaste again for the updated team?

 

[ezlaturbo]

https://pokepast.es/25a36677efc37ddd
I'm alternating Occa and Shuca Berry.

 

[M4RK5M4N]

I would say Conkeldurr, it doesn't really add much to the team since you already have Melmetal. The only thing it gives is priority and I can't see any gaping holes in which your team LOSES to priority, other than Belly Drum Azumarill. Melmetal has enough bulk to take a hit and then OHKO it. What exactly does Mental Herb do on Cresselia? Yeah, just replace Conkeldurr with Hatterene.

 

[ezlaturbo]

I would say Conkeldurr, it doesn't really add much to the team since you already have Melmetal. The only thing it gives is priority and I can't see any gaping holes in which your team LOSES to priority, other than Belly Drum Azumarill. Melmetal has enough bulk to take a hit and then OHKO it. What exactly does Mental Herb do on Cresselia? Yeah, just replace Conkeldurr with Hatterene.

Nah, why would Hatterene benefit me, hazards don't really affect me, and think can revenge kill outside of tr instead of wasting time. Also, helps vs Aqua Jet Daunt, Eleki, and other frail fast mons without wasting tr. Mental herb is to help set TR.

 

[M4RK5M4N]

That was just my opinion but you can do whatever pleases you :)

 

[ezlaturbo]

Instead of Crawdaunt, I've been testing Choice Band Golisopod.
Golisopod @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD
Brave Nature
Ability: Emergency Exit
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Leech Life

This has been pretty good as a Zygarde/Fire type swap in and to finish weakened opponents. Not much like switching into it. Was gonna try A-Exeggutor and Appletun, though the second seems a bit too passive.

 

[M4RK5M4N]

I would reccomend either Choice Band Crawdaunt or Choice Band Golisopod, because Appletun and Exeggutor-Alola are extremely passive and just take momentum away from your team. Choice Band Adamant Crawdaunt almost destroys everything,

 

[ezlaturbo]

Golisopod has a nice Ground resist, and 5 more base attack than Crawdaunt. Also, more priority and momentum with Emergency Exit and it's slower in TR.