Didn't know lol... I received it on a distribution in Gamefaqs. Lucky that I haven't used it on official matches.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
[DONE] JOHTO CLASSIC - Post your results!
- Thread starter DragonWhale
- Start date
That's why Banded Scizor isn't the best set. Happy to see that SubDisable Gar still insane :)
Excuse me if I'm asking something dumb, but if the above is the only item restriction, doesn't that mean that the multiple item clause (ex. Not allowing more than 1 leftovers on a team) isn't in place? And if that's the case, why is the clause in place for the Johto Classic on Showdown? If this comment goes somewhere else, let me know.
In battle spot, item clause is always implied.
Something I've been trying out lately are Substitute + set up Water-types. I've tested two so far.
Kingdra: A lot of people think this only works on rain, but its typing is handy for actually setting up on Suicune thanks to Substitute and Dragon Dance! Not nearly as powerful as Dragonite or Gyarados, but not being weak tl Electric is pretty nice for a Water-type, as is avoiding the Ice weakness when compared to Dragonite. Be warned though: Azumarill is a huge bastard to Kingdra!
Gyarados: Just started testing this out yesterday. Intimidate is pretty boss, and the Earthquake immunities have made it pair pretty well with Raikou so far. My only thing is that I'm having a hard time choosing the last move. I've been using Bounce to screw with Azumarill, but this makes it lose to Sub Venusaur and have to rely on Substitute to not get destroyed by Electrics. I imagine all out attacking Gyarados is probably fine too, especially with Earthquake, so I'll be trying that out! I'll probably try Earthquake on Sub Gyarados as well.
Kingdra: A lot of people think this only works on rain, but its typing is handy for actually setting up on Suicune thanks to Substitute and Dragon Dance! Not nearly as powerful as Dragonite or Gyarados, but not being weak tl Electric is pretty nice for a Water-type, as is avoiding the Ice weakness when compared to Dragonite. Be warned though: Azumarill is a huge bastard to Kingdra!
Gyarados: Just started testing this out yesterday. Intimidate is pretty boss, and the Earthquake immunities have made it pair pretty well with Raikou so far. My only thing is that I'm having a hard time choosing the last move. I've been using Bounce to screw with Azumarill, but this makes it lose to Sub Venusaur and have to rely on Substitute to not get destroyed by Electrics. I imagine all out attacking Gyarados is probably fine too, especially with Earthquake, so I'll be trying that out! I'll probably try Earthquake on Sub Gyarados as well.
I didn't use Showdown to test things in the Kanto Classic, so I won't here either. I'm looking at a team of Dragonite and Aerodactly (slightly changed moves from the sets I used in KC) and I'm adding Azumarill, Scizor and Porygon2. I am wondering if my sixth member should be Machamp, due to its high-power sure-hit attacks, that can confuse while taking huge HP off of everything if they live at all, or my Ninetails, which I'm reluctant to use because I'm not looking at using anything else that benefits from sun, Azumarill is even hindered by it. But sun also reduces the threat of the possible rain teams and Tyranitars, which can hurt most of my provisional team, especially Dragonite, who utilises Multiscale to set up a DD when possible, if he's not Extremespeeding off weakened threats (although Scizor and Azumarill also have similar stratifies in setting up to use STAB priority.)
I've done some team testing on showdown and Assault Vest No guard Machamp has been one of my best members. The dynamicpunch/knock off/stone edge/bullet punch combo just wears down nearly everyone (especially all of the Tyranitars) and surprises every Espeon I've seen. The only issue is that your team would be extremely heavy on Physical attackers. Maybe a special electric type (eviolite Magneton?) to take care of rain teams.
Edit: Just realized a sturdy Magneton beats Tyranitar as well.
At this time, my Machamp had Thunder Punch/Dynamic Punch/ Stone Edge/ Poison Jab. (I'll probably replace Jab with Knock Off) as this was my Kanto Classic set, so no items and a risk of minimize Clef(s) which I never really encountered. I also haven't gotten round to getting a Hitmonchan ready to breed Bullet on, and I already have 3 Pokemon with a priority move. The problem with magneton is that I'm planning on having Eviolite on Porygon2, which if I use Machamp>Ninetales would be my only special attacker, as you stated. (although Magneton would also full this role) upon looking at my team, I feel it is rather slow, so I might look at finally catching Raikou to replace either Scizor or Azumarill.
Magneton is actually a pretty good special attacker even without Eviolite. You can use a Sturdy Magneton with Scarf or Specs and give the Eviolite to P2.
Looking at your team again I would add either Raikou, Jolteon or choiced Magneton. The first two can use Thunder against rain teams while Magneton and Scizor can deal with sand. If you ran Scizor (who is also good in rain) you wouldn't want Ninetails, since Scizor is roasted by any fire moves with the sun up.
Magneton is beginning to warm to me. Or maybe it's the magnetic field. If I ran Magneton instead of Dragonite? (As they have comparable abilities) and I wouldn't have to worry about Multiscale breaking from Tyranitar's Sand Stream. That would make my provisional team: Magneton, Porygon2, Machamp, Aerodactyl, Scizor and Azumarill.
Even in rain it's still baked by fire moves. No weather? OHKO'd. Sun? OHKO'd by the same stuff.
Sun doesn't hurt it at all. In fact, it reduces Water damage, so it loses nothing to Sunlight and gains a water "resist". Ferrothorn / Scizor in Sun isn't absurd at all if you really think about it. Rain helps, yes, but Sun doesn't actually hinder them. They aren't spamming Water moves.
Regular Steels like Magneton, yes, are hurt by sun since they can survive low-power Fire moves normally.
edit:
4 SpA Arcanine Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor in Rain: 120-144 (67.7 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Arcanine Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 244-292 (137.8 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Arcanine Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor in Sun: 372-436 (210.1 - 246.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
See? Weather is largely irrelevent. :P
Weather is very relevant if you read the whole thread. gligar101 is looking to put his team together while combatting weather teams, not trying to run a sun team. I just thought that a better option would be to embrace rain/sand. I didn't reply earlier but looking at his team I would drop Scizor for Magneton, not Dragonite for Magneton, and then playing in rain/sand/sun would be fine if he chooses the right Mons at Team Preview. So if he wants to go with a DD Dragonite it makes more sense to me to just not choose it when Tyranitar is on the opposing team than to introduce a weather setter onto his own team.
Hey everyone! I'm better in breeding mons than battling, but I have been testing this team in Showdown:
- Typhlosion (M) @ Choice Specs Ability: Flash Fire - Timid (Eruption - Fire Blast - HP[Grass] - Focus Blast)
- Quagsire (M) @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Unaware - Relaxed (Scald - Recover - Earthquake - Toxic)
- Scizor (M) @ Choice Band Ability: Technician - Adamant (Bullet Punch - U-turn - Knock Off - Superpower)
- Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet Ability: Pressure - Bold (Thunderbolt - HP [Ice] - Roost - Heat Wave)
- Clefable (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Unaware - Bold (Calm Mind - Protect - Moonblast - Wish)
- Espeon (F) @ Choice Scarf Ability: Magic Bounce - Timid (Psychic - Dazzling Gleam - Shadow Ball - Grass Knot)
I have noticed that I have problems with special sweepers, rain teams and the like so, any advice to improve this team is appreciated :)
- Typhlosion (M) @ Choice Specs Ability: Flash Fire - Timid (Eruption - Fire Blast - HP[Grass] - Focus Blast)
- Quagsire (M) @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Unaware - Relaxed (Scald - Recover - Earthquake - Toxic)
- Scizor (M) @ Choice Band Ability: Technician - Adamant (Bullet Punch - U-turn - Knock Off - Superpower)
- Zapdos @ Rocky Helmet Ability: Pressure - Bold (Thunderbolt - HP [Ice] - Roost - Heat Wave)
- Clefable (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Unaware - Bold (Calm Mind - Protect - Moonblast - Wish)
- Espeon (F) @ Choice Scarf Ability: Magic Bounce - Timid (Psychic - Dazzling Gleam - Shadow Ball - Grass Knot)
I have noticed that I have problems with special sweepers, rain teams and the like so, any advice to improve this team is appreciated :)
Last edited:
Typhlosion is neat. What are you running on Specs? I think you want Eruption, Focus Blsst...and then two of a HP type, Extrasensory, and Flamethrower or another Fire STAB. Hp Grass might be good since you lack that coverage and the only imperfect IV it forces is 30 SpA. Really no other options.
Zapdos the preferred ability is Statuc I think.
Your Espeonhas Trick right? If you don't want the HP Grass on Typlosion, or feel Quagsire is really threatening, you can run Grass Knot on it.
Idk if that's helpful, not very familiar with the meta.
Oh, no, don't get me wrong: weather is very, very relevent to the metagame as a whole; I don't deny that at all lol.
I simply meant that as far as Scizor is concerned, it really does function about the same in Sun, Sand, and non-weather, while recieving some benefit from Rain, so Ninetales + Scizor is a perfectly fine combination if he wants that route. :P
If Rain and Sand are issues, I ran a Sunny Day Suicune in the weather-centric days of BW2. No joke; it was incredibly effective at dominating Sand and Rain alike. Granted, I also paired it with the Sand+Rain crushing god known as Virizion, but that's obviously not an option here... Could be funny with Venusaur though. You could try my old horror of a Suicune over Quagsire. Between Suicune, Zapdos (I would suggest Static as well if it's attainable for you), and Scizor you'd have a very strong core against Rain, and Suicune + Scizor helps for Sand. Sun, you have Typhlosion as an abuser, Espeon / Scizor for Venusaur, and Zapdos can abuse it somewhat.
I can handle Sand and Sunny weather but I get sweeped by Rain teams very often. Thanks! I'll try with Suicune and I hope I can SR a good static Zapdos before the competition xD
I'd teach Machamp Earthquake just in case you meet a Nidoking/queen. Otherwise it could completely wall you unless it hurts itself a lot in Dynamic Punch's confussion, which I wouldn't like to rely on at all. It's not common, but it gives you more cover. It also gives you a 68.8% chance to OHKO a Calm Mind/Assault Vest Raikou.
While that might be cool Suicune, Raikou, and Entei haven't been released with their hidden abilities yet, so they might be the gift.
Probably the reason why you're having so much trouble stomaching raich is because you lack a water resist across the team. To fix this, I'd ditch Quagsire. Quagsire + Clefable is pretty repetitive to be honest. They both do the exact same job checking set up sweepers, mainly BD Azu and DDnite. I'd try your own BD Azumarill over Quagsire. It's a hard stop to kingdra in rain, sets up on a few water-types so long as it dodges a scald burn, and gives you another ultra powerful win condition. You might also want to try a more specially defensive Raikou over Zapdos; between Clefable and Scizor, your pokemon are excellent at sponging physical attacks as is. Raikou's higher SpDef seems much preferred here.
Weird cuz I suggested Static Zapdos, but I wanna say that Pressure is actually really good on defensive ones. Prolly worse overall, but I don't think so much so that you need to stress to get a good Static one. I'd run Discharge bomber t-bolt on Zapdos, and that provides the same chance to para as Discharge, so IMO you're ok with Pressure.
I'm not that worried, as neither have a real advantage over each other, and I can switch after using Knock off to remove their item and deal some damage. Aerodactly will be running Earthquake, so as long as it remains the speed God it's parent was in the Kanto Classic (I've changed ability to Pressure to stall out any OHKO Suicune's and coupling with protect to Choice check potentially.) I hope Aerodactyl will out speed and deal that damage to any electric type it comes across, especially Raikou.
I replaced Clefable with Azumarill and that worked against Politoed/Kingdra, I'll test SpDef Raikou and Clefable in a 2nd team, thanks for the suggestion!
I used that Zapdos with Discharge in Kanto classic actually! xD Thank you for your advice!