SV OU Double Dragon Balance

[DBK31TH]

Hi everyone! I am a new player who's been playing OU since the release of SV and am also new to team building. For those curious, i typically hover around 1500-1700s. I created this team and things have been going well, but feedback and suggestions are very much welcomed! This will be my very first RMT post, so please do be patient with me :)

Introduction
​

My Thought Process:

My initial starting point were these three mons. I really love this core because of its synergy, its ability to get hazards off, and the flexibility it offers.

With so many set up threats running around, it sometimes feels necessary to have an unaware mon on your team. Out of the big 3 Skeli is my favorite to use and can sometimes sweep once it gets going

For my breakers, I decided to go with banded baxcalibur and sub NP hydreigon. Originally, I had a banded dragapult over the hydreigon, but after playing with fatBatman's RMT, I started to fall in love with how sub NP hydreigon plays. So, in the end, I replaced one dragon for another and the team still worked. (replacement suggestions are still very much welcomed)

The Team
https://pokepast.es/dcf19dae5e44cc69

Revisions: (Thank you for your time and considerations) :)
Motor Hawk: https://pokepast.es/a2864fb0295e864c
Hamiltonion: https://pokepast.es/8b0eacb88e6ea606

Ice Spice (Hatterene) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Draining Kiss
- Nuzzle​

On this team, hatterene is meant to check dragons, help keep hazards off the field, and spread status with nuzzle. Through its bulk and draining kiss, hatterene can fairly easily sit on many hazard setters and chip them down. Most of the time, hatt will just be clicking its attacking moves, but when you are able to get a calm mind or two, it can really become a problem. Although hatterene has good bulk, do be mindful of what and when you bring it in because it wants as much HP as possible to effectively check what it needs to.

Himmothy III (Great Tusk) @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off​

Ahh, great tusk, what more can be said that hasn't already -- he. is. Him. Tusk's ability to set up rocks, remove hazards, and soak up hits is incredible. If it is not a lead, often times Tusk will come in to remove hazards, shake hands with opposing Tusks, soak up a hit from gambit, remove items, or deal good chip to whatever you bring it into. This Tusk is very much standard, but it still manages to do what it does despite everyone knowing what its going to do.

oiseau ennuyeux (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mirror Armor
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 28 Spe
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog​

Acting as the team's special move absorber and ground immunity, Corviknight is such a reliable mon when it comes to taking a hit, pivoting into, and removing hazards. While physically defensive sets are good, I much rather prefer SpDef variants. On this team, Corviknight will often come in on shadow balls from gholdengo and specs pult, hazard setters to defog on, and other corviknights to get a slow u-turn off. And in a pinch, if at enough HP, it can survive a specs T-bolt from Iron Valiant and has a good chance to kill with BB.

Dirge Nowitzki (Skeledirge) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off
- Substitute​

On almost all of the teams I get and use from other people, skeledirge is fully defensive. While I like fully defensive Skeli, I felt pretty good with the physical bulk I already have with Hatterene, Tusk, and even Croviknight -- even though its SpDef. Because of that, I went with full SpDef to better help against Iron Valiant, Iron Moth, and Volcorona. One thing many will notice is the use of leftovers over Boots. Boots are incredibly helpful, for obvious reasons, but when using boots sub skeledirge, I found the cycle of sub -> torch & sub breaks -> sub -> recover & sub breaks to be incredibly annoying and a super big momentum stopper. With lefties, the 2-3 turns it takes to break the sub results in more torch song boosts, greater HP, more Slack Off pp, and more walling. The rocks weakness is very annyoing, but between the first three mons on the team, keeping hazards off shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Baldy (Baxcalibur) @ Choice Band
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glaive Rush
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard​

Ever since the Chine-Pao ban, I have been loving the steady rise of Baxcalibur. I love using the DD loaded dice set, but because 4 of the 6 mons I have are defensive, I very much need offensive urgency in order to keep up. That is where the choice band set comes in as it hits so many mons for super effective or neutral damage. I originally had a Tera Dragon over fairy to really cleave through something like dondozo, but in practice, after my first glaive rush, a fairy type or something faster was brought out and the extra power the tera gave me no longer mattered. As a result, I changed it to tera fairy to get another dragon immunity and allow bax to stay alive, as its very important to the team.

Muppet Hands (Hydreigon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power​

As previously said, I was introduced to sub np by fatbatman's RMT and I really liked it. To my enjoyment, hydreigon gets lots of free subs against fat mons like non-scarf rotom, clodsire, amoonguss, non-BP dondozo, non-BP garg, toxapex, etc. Behind the sub, life is good. The amount of work nasty plot, or the switchin chip + the free chip sub can really get you far. If played well, or in a great match up, it can really run away with the game because it can get pretty consistent subs.

Replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1856700582-kv675f0490xbep2948di5hhhm86yc5cpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1857051092-xxy43gqbbf4mt1a63617c4p9a520im4pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1856524508-xy9afh4kwffeboju24cv0g6nak5o6gmpw

(Will post better replays soon. When I was playing, saving replays never came to mind because I never thought id be posting here. Posting was a very spontaneous decision from me lol)

 

[Motor Hawk]

Not too bad for being new ;)

I'll make this a quick one so I hope you don't mind... EDIT: I am a dirty liar and I knew this going into this post. They're never short, why did I think this one would be different...??

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For starters, I am not a hydreigon fan. I don't know why, couldn't tell you. Maybe because it evolves at such a high level, maybe because its face is dumb. With that in mind, I do think that kingambit synergizes better with your team. It helps remove some of the weaknesses you were facing and adds another nice mid to late-game sweeper. Try it out, don't try it out. Up to you :)

The King (Kingambit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch

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Everything else is a minor tweak IMO...


Tera water works better on Hatt, tera flying doesn't make much sense to me. Also, swapping psyshock for psychic will help you better in the long run to diversify your attacks a little.


Change up the spread. You already have a great defensive mon in Corv (which we will get to in a sec) so you don't really need another one in Tusk IMO. Tusk would be better suited to remove hazards/ add hazards and get a +1 rapid spin to do major damage with equake and close combat. In this case, I do suggest swapping out knockoff for close combat for that extra coverage. But I guess that one is really up to you...


First, I wouldn't get rid of your flying type with tera water. I would instead use tera flying to remove your weakness to fighting and fire moves while staying in the air. I would also opt for a 252HP 252DEF Corv spread. You already have good spdef mons in Hatt and Skele and you don't really need another. DEF Corv IMO is a lot better (unless you want to run bulk up but that's a different story).

Also, since this set is a defensive Corv, swap defog for body press. You should swap out defog anyway IMO since rapid spin on Tusk is such a better option and you don't really need two hazard removers.


If the set you are using is working for you, awesome. However, the set I am going to post seems like it would fit better over all...

Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Tera Type: Fairy
Calm Nature
- Torch Song
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Slack Off

You don't really need substitute (although I get why you would add it). HOWEVER, will o wisp is kind of busted, and combining that with hex + torch song turns Skele into a menace.


I think swapping the Tusk set opened up Bax to run loaded dice + DD. Because, yes, I love using loaded dice + DD too (more than choice band).

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You may be new but your ELO says that you know what you're doing (at least somewhat). So take or leave what I have to say. I do, however, think it will help (at least a little...)

:)

 

[DBK31TH]

Not too bad for being new ;)

I'll make this a quick one so I hope you don't mind... EDIT: I am a dirty liar and I knew this going into this post. They're never short, why did I think this one would be different...??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-->
For starters, I am not a hydreigon fan. I don't know why, couldn't tell you. Maybe because it evolves at such a high level, maybe because its face is dumb. With that in mind, I do think that kingambit synergizes better with your team. It helps remove some of the weaknesses you were facing and adds another nice mid to late-game sweeper. Try it out, don't try it out. Up to you :)

The King (Kingambit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Kowtow Cleave
- Sucker Punch

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Everything else is a minor tweak IMO...


Tera water works better on Hatt, tera flying doesn't make much sense to me. Also, swapping psyshock for psychic will help you better in the long run to diversify your attacks a little.


Change up the spread. You already have a great defensive mon in Corv (which we will get to in a sec) so you don't really need another one in Tusk IMO. Tusk would be better suited to remove hazards/ add hazards and get a +1 rapid spin to do major damage with equake and close combat. In this case, I do suggest swapping out knockoff for close combat for that extra coverage. But I guess that one is really up to you...


First, I wouldn't get rid of your flying type with tera water. I would instead use tera flying to remove your weakness to fighting and fire moves while staying in the air. I would also opt for a 252HP 252DEF Corv spread. You already have good spdef mons in Hatt and Skele and you don't really need another. DEF Corv IMO is a lot better (unless you want to run bulk up but that's a different story).

Also, since this set is a defensive Corv, swap defog for body press. You should swap out defog anyway IMO since rapid spin on Tusk is such a better option and you don't really need two hazard removers.


If the set you are using is working for you, awesome. However, the set I am going to post seems like it would fit better over all...

Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Tera Type: Fairy
Calm Nature
- Torch Song
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Slack Off

You don't really need substitute (although I get why you would add it). HOWEVER, will o wisp is kind of busted, and combining that with hex + torch song turns Skele into a menace.


I think swapping the Tusk set opened up Bax to run loaded dice + DD. Because, yes, I love using loaded dice + DD too (more than choice band).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You may be new but your ELO says that you know what you're doing (at least somewhat). So take or leave what I have to say. I do, however, think it will help (at least a little...)

:)

Hey Motor Hawk! I was really looking forward to your post because I see you all over the RMT forum. I will very much take all your suggestions into consideration, but I would like to offer explanations to my decisions and get a chance to pick your brain! :)

I actually had tera water Hatt originally, but changed it last min before the post. Tera water is good overall, but in all the games i've played, the very situational flying tera was more useful in helping against Clod and Amoonguss. In my mind, they are very much interchangeable.

I don't have the most experience with offensive Tusk, but I feel like there are better mons that fill that offensive role. The only real value I find in offensive Tusk is its access to Close Combat. On that Same note, I know that there's a fighting weakness on the team, but there is not really much fighting coverage in the meta currently (Tusk CC, Gambit LK, Valiant Focus Miss/CC, psychic spam tera fighting polteagiest).

In my experience, I find facing rocky helmet/defensive Corviknight to be easier than SpDef variants, but that may very well be a result of the teams I use. It is DEFINITELY personal preference, but I don't like relying on one mon for hazard control- and as such, I like defog and having hatt. What match ups do you like full Def corviknight for? :)

I honestly haven't faced willo-hex skeledirge much, but I can very much see its potency. I just feel like dragapult can do its job better, but that just might be my inexperience talking.

Thank you sm for your input! I had a fun time thinking about your recommendations and will be creating another team with your implementations for personal use!

 

[hamiltonion]

Nice team! I think its mostly there except for some small issues I noticed while playtesting. The main thing I notice is Pult gives you major headaches and almost forces a Tera for you to be able to deal with it. Following that, you also have no real speed control apart from Bax Ice Shard which isnt the best to be locked into.

My first suggestion would running AV Pex over Hatterene. Since you already have 2 forms of hazard control in Rapid Spin from Tusk and Defog from Corv, I don't think you need Magic Bounce. AV Pex helps you deal with Pult solidly and also eases your matchup against fat teams with Infestation + Acid Spray trapping. My next suggestion is more optional but I suggest running Scarf Valiant over Skeledirge. Imo Scarf Valiant provides much needed speed control, a lategame cleaner and counterplay against HO which is hard for this team to deal with. I think between Tusk / Corv / Pex, your defensive needs are mostly met. If you do keep Skele, then make it Heavy Duty Boots and run Wisp over Sub with Tera Fairy. Minor changes, I'd make Corv Tera Fighting.

Summary:

-> AV

-> Scarf

Tera Water -> Tera Fighting

Good luck!

 

[Motor Hawk]

Hey Motor Hawk! I was really looking forward to your post because I see you all over the RMT forum. I will very much take all your suggestions into consideration, but I would like to offer explanations to my decisions and get a chance to pick your brain! :)

I actually had tera water Hatt originally, but changed it last min before the post. Tera water is good overall, but in all the games i've played, the very situational flying tera was more useful in helping against Clod and Amoonguss. In my mind, they are very much interchangeable.

Clod and Amoongus get eaten by Psyshock. And it's not like you have to tera water either, but if Amongus stays in they're either dumb or making 9000+IQ plays. You also have Corv for Amoongus mind games. I get tera flying, it's just so situational.

I don't have the most experience with offensive Tusk, but I feel like there are better mons that fill that offensive role. The only real value I find in offensive Tusk is its access to Close Combat. On that Same note, I know that there's a fighting weakness on the team, but there is not really much fighting coverage in the meta currently (Tusk CC, Gambit LK, Valiant Focus Miss/CC, psychic spam tera fighting polteagiest).

As I said, you already have several bulky mons and stated you were lacking raw power. If you find you need more bulk overall try a 252hp/ 252Atk spread. But, fast/ physical tusk lets you use DD Bax more freely.

In my experience, I find facing rocky helmet/defensive Corviknight to be easier than SpDef variants, but that may very well be a result of the teams I use. It is DEFINITELY my personal preference, but I don't like relying on one mon for hazard control- and as such, I like defog and having hatt. What match-ups do you like full Def Corviknight for? :)

I typically use it for every physical mon I come across... (Tusk can give you trouble though). But, as an example, Gambit, physical Pult, Bax, some Tusk mind games, etc. The list goes on. As for your team, after the Tusk switch to give you more power, your physical defenses were spread a little thin. Sure Hatt has Def, but it's a Spd mon. Skele is a Spd mon. Tusk is a good Def mon but IMO Corv just does it better.

I honestly haven't faced will-o-hex Skeledirge much, but I can very much see its potency. I just feel like Dragapult can do its job better, but that just might be my inexperience talking.

(Dragapult doesn't have the healing and chipping potential that I see Skele has. Dragapult has the raw power, but, I mean, torch song. I feel like Dragapult got some attention, there is some potential, and the meta ran with it. Now, granted, I haven't really used Wisp-hex Pult (So maybe I am way off-base), but it seems to me that it's just a phase. It's gotten a lot of attention, but it's not used as much as you may think numbers-wise.)

Thank you sm for your input! I had a fun time thinking about your recommendations and will be creating another team with your implementations for personal use!

Click to expand :)