ORAS UU Double Sub T-Spikes Hail [Peak #10]

[shiny sparrow]

Double Sub T-Spike Hail [Peaked #10]

Introduction:

Hello Smogon, long time lurker and competitive battler here – Sparrow. I’ve decided to post a team to the Forum to showcase a solid UU team that isn’t heavy stall or heavy offence. I personally reached #10 on the ladder with this team, but I believe it’s potential is much greater. A user, whom I will not name, had allegedly peaked at #4 with this team – there are those of you, including myself, who may be skeptical of this claim. The team focuses on offensive pressure & hazard control, subbing on switch-ins and causing chip damage. There are two main win conditions; Mega-Abomasnow and Cobalion. DMT also featured this team on his YouTube channel recently.

Team Members:

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Roost

Specially Defensive Gligar, a surprisingly underrated wall in the metagame. With SpDef investment Gligar can now wall an incredible amount of Threats, which would otherwise cause problems for the team, with out losing out on it’s ability to wall most physical threats. Prominent threats that are now walled include: Hydreigon, Mega-Amphoros, Salamence, Porygon2 and Mega-Pidgeot. Stealth Rock is arguably the best move in the game and should be a staple on every team. Earthquake hurts Steel and Electric types, helping Gligar beat Mega-Aggron 1v1 as well as deal with annoying Pokemon such as Heliolisk. I shouldn’t need to explain the reason why I run Roost, but in conjunction with Toxic it’s the main reason this set is so good. Mega-Pidgeot fails to 2hko and falls to toxic damage – provided you don’t get confused. Porygon2 & Cresselia are two premier walls that are beaten 1v1, after Roost an Ice Beam from P2 only does ~30% damage, Cresselia is in the same boat – failing to 2hko Gligar with Ice Beam. None of the bulky water Pokemon in the tier like switching in and taking a toxic to the face.

Taunt, U-Turn and Defog are viable options on this set. running a bit more speed to creep other Pokemon such as Mandibuzz & Cresselia wouldn’t hurt either.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Having the ability to remove hazards is incredibly important to this team. Tentacruel fits the team perfectly because it not only has amazing synergy with Gligar, it lays down the teams other form of chip damage: Toxic Spikes. Scald is a standard on all bulky water Pokemon, netting burns on Pokemon such as Empoleon and Crobat, as well as other switch-ins, proves invaluable. Knock Off allows it to remove recovery from bulky Pokemon as well as Life Orbs, Choice Scarfs and other threatening items. Running hazard control makes switching much easier allowing the team to constantly apply pressure.

Opting to run Poison STAB over Knock Off could prove handy.

Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split

Tell me what can take on this Chandelure behind a Substitute with Toxic Spikes up. Chandelure is the king of mind games, a solid answer to almost every move Entei can use, as well as making the opponent second guess whether they should spin or not. Substitute Chandelure with Toxic Spikes is a monster. Energy Ball 2hkos Suicune & Blastoise, it is also great for taking on unsuspecting Swampert and it gives it a move to use against Trace Porygon2.

Running a Timid Nature with Speed to at least tie with other base 80s such as Mamoswine could prove useful (I prefer not to since everything is running Speed to beat that bench mark). Running Will-o-Wisp over Energy Ball could work, though it is a tad redundant alongside Toxic Spikes. Lastly, Calm Mind can prove to be handy as another win condition.

Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Atk / 228 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Shard
- Blizzard
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed

Without Abomasnow, this team would have a much larger problem with Bulky Water type Pokemon. Abomasnow is my main switch in to Feraligatr & Mamoswine, fortunately neither run Superpower as standard. Normally if I see an opposing Mamoswine in team preview, I lead with this Pokemon. Abomasnow is not only a fantastic check to these Pokemon it’s also an amazing Late Game sweeper, completely running through weakened teams.

One could opt to run more speed on Abomasnow in order to creep other slow Pokemon – Slowking comes to mind.

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

Cobalion is an amazing Pokemon, a great speed tier, great bulk and great resistances. Normally I set up Substitute on the predicted switch and cause problems for the opponent (works wonder with Toxic Spikes). Another way to use Cobalion is Substitute on the predicted Status move coming your way, giving you another opportunity to set up. Cobalion is the teams answer to Dark type Pokemon. Kroookodile, Umbreon, Hydreigon and Mandibuzz are all handily dealt with. Cobalion plows through most teams late game, and with Substitute it can cause havoc through out the mid game too.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

With its amazing typing, Speed Tier and U-Turn bolster by a Choice Scarf Hydreigon is the last member of the team. Hydreigon is an incredibly useful Pokemon but one should also be careful not to be too reckless, being Choice locked into a Dragon or Dark move could prove fatal against opposing Slurpuff, fortunately Chandelure is a back up check should you ever allow the monster to set up. What Hydreigon does bring to the team is the ability to out run most of the premier threats to the team and handle them quickly. Pokemon such as Mega-Aerodactyl, Choice Scarf Darmanitan, Dragon Dance Feraligatr and Nidoking are all handled after some prior chip damage.

Running Earth Power is an interesting option over Fire Blast, actually allowing Hydreigon to hit threats such as Nidoqueen/Nidoking.

Main Threats:

The biggest threat to the team by far is Nidoqueen & Nidoking, fortunately these are slow threats and appropriate sacrifices may be needed depending on how they are used. Scarf Hydreigon, Cobalion & Abomasnow’s Ice Shard can hit the two but not OHKO either. Mega Blastoise is another huge threat, Abomasnow can live an Aura Sphere and Tentacruel can apply pressure, again the team relies heavily on Hydreigon to revenge it. Nothing can switch into Mamoswine reliably (nothing in the tier can).

PASTEBIN

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-243984603
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-243975503
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-243962068
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-243421539
​

 

[Twix]

Just a small suggestion, with Chandelure using Toxic Spikes to its advantage, I could see Hex > Shadow Ball although you may rely on the hazards too much.

 

[shiny sparrow]

Just a small suggestion, with Chandelure using Toxic Spikes to its advantage, I could see Hex > Shadow Ball although you may rely on the hazards too much.

G'day Twix whilst I do appreciate your feedback, the reason running Hex would be redundant is for the exact reasons you've stated. Shadow Ball is much more reliable, I could see the merit of running Hex if one were running Will-o-Wisp over Energy Ball perhaps.

 

[Lapras!]

Hi sparrow, i remember our great battle with you using this team. I have only one suggestion which is maybe to run U-turn over toxic on gligar. This will allow you to grab some nice momentum which I think is more useful than toxic. Many bulky waters don't really care about toxic (Suicune, Empoleon, Tentacruel) and you have a very solid bulky water check in abomasnow and U-turn will give him some nice opportunities to set up.

 

[shiny sparrow]

Hi sparrow, i remember our great battle with you using this team. I have only one suggestion which is maybe to run U-turn over toxic on gligar. This will allow you to grab some nice momentum which I think is more useful than toxic. Many bulky waters don't really care about toxic (Suicune, Empoleon, Tentacruel) and you have a very solid bulky water check in abomasnow and U-turn will give him some nice opportunities to set up.

Hello fren Lapras! it's true we always have some amazing battles that end up being incredibly close. Thanks for dropping a rate and I definitely see the potential of U-Turn over Toxic on Gligar - believe it or not I did run U-Turn at one stage! Both options have their merits; I prefer to run toxic because, if you remember from our battles, it's not only the Bulky Waters I will be hitting with Toxic. A lot of Stallers do not appreciate Toxic, Pokemon such as Mandibuzz, Cresselia, Moltres and Salamence are all put on a timer. Also Toxic pressures teams that don't run Clerics, helping me beat those aforementioned Pokemon far easier.

The potential momentum U-Turn does bring to the team is amazing, I will be sure to give it a whirl next time I'm on.

Replays of Lapras! v shiny sparrow :
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-243417766
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-244000635

 

[Serperior for Uber]

Hello Mr. Sparrow ;),

So after play testing your team for a while, I've noticed a few things. I love how easy it is to set up with dual sub mons. Furthermore, hail+tspikes is a very deadly combination. Now while abomasnow is an effective answer to bulky waters, one untimely scald burn is enough to cripple abomasnow for life. This is especially dangerous if your opponent has a crocune and can come in and start boosting before chandys energy balls can do enough(love the chandelure set btw).
So one solution I have found is to use Special Abomasnow over Physical Abamasnow with Giga drain and leech seed. This will let you comfortably beat suicune and harass other bulky waters. It also provides some recovery for aboma which make take a pounding especially considering its your Feraligatr and Mamoswine switchin. 0 atk Ice shard is still enough to beat salamence after rocks, but if you find yourself needing more atk on your aboma, just transfer some evs from hp. Also, leech seed+hail+toxic spikes gets a lot aboma switchins xd

OG Aboma Set

Gangrene (Abomasnow) @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard

 

[Christo]

Hey bro, cool team. I do not having many major changes, as I think you found your self a decent team going on. I do have a few EV and Set suggestion changes, though. What I am thinking is:
Chandelure @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split/Calm Mind
- Substitute

Energy Ball does not really belong on a non choice Specs Chandelure since you will not be dealing enough damage to most bulky waters anyway. I think a LO + Substitute + Pain Split would work really well over what was previously Leftovers. Calm Mind is another viable option, and if you like that better, go with Leftovers.

Another basic change would be to give Abomasnow some speed creep. I would go with 72 speed EVs. If I recall correctly, that will outspeed Doublade after Mega Evo which is pretty nice to have.

My last suggestion is Taunt over Substitute on Cobalion. I think both Sub and taunt work as they block status, but Taunt I think will be more useful to stop any status, Recovery, etc. Due to Cobalion's high speed and Swords Dance, Taunt works really well. Nice team, man.

 

[shiny sparrow]

Hello Mr. Sparrow ;),

So after play testing your team for a while, I've noticed a few things. I love how easy it is to set up with dual sub mons. Furthermore, hail+tspikes is a very deadly combination. Now while abomasnow is an effective answer to bulky waters, one untimely scald burn is enough to cripple abomasnow for life. This is especially dangerous if your opponent has a crocune and can come in and start boosting before chandys energy balls can do enough(love the chandelure set btw).
So one solution I have found is to use Special Abomasnow over Physical Abamasnow with Giga drain and leech seed. This will let you comfortably beat suicune and harass other bulky waters. It also provides some recovery for aboma which make take a pounding especially considering its your Feraligatr and Mamoswine switchin. 0 atk Ice shard is still enough to beat salamence after rocks, but if you find yourself needing more atk on your aboma, just transfer some evs from hp. Also, leech seed+hail+toxic spikes gets a lot aboma switchins xd

OG Aboma Set

Gangrene (Abomasnow) @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard

Serperior for Uber! I'm very grateful for the time you've spent playing with my team, and I appreciate the rate. It's true that the team is incredibly weak to Bulky Waters (actually Scald burns) and I had tested a Mixed Abomasnow over the current version once before (running Earthquake to lure Fire / Steel types). To be quite honest I had never considered running Special Abomasnow - it does make sense. Whittling away at opponents whilst maintaining longevity does sound appealing. Swords Dance Mega-Abomasnow is a nice win condition to have but running a Special Attacking set patches up some of the weakness' currently present in the team. I'm excited to give the set a whirl and see how it performs next time I get the chance.

Hey bro, cool team. I do not having many major changes, as I think you found your self a decent team going on. I do have a few EV and Set suggestion changes, though. What I am thinking is:
Chandelure @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split/Calm Mind
- Substitute

Energy Ball does not really belong on a non choice Specs Chandelure since you will not be dealing enough damage to most bulky waters anyway. I think a LO + Substitute + Pain Split would work really well over what was previously Leftovers. Calm Mind is another viable option, and if you like that better, go with Leftovers.

Another basic change would be to give Abomasnow some speed creep. I would go with 72 speed EVs. If I recall correctly, that will outspeed Doublade after Mega Evo which is pretty nice to have.

My last suggestion is Taunt over Substitute on Cobalion. I think both Sub and taunt work as they block status, but Taunt I think will be more useful to stop any status, Recovery, etc. Due to Cobalion's high speed and Swords Dance, Taunt works really well. Nice team, man.

G'Day Christo The Gr8, thanks for the rate and compliments! Chandelure is such a unique 'mon as you can run so many viable sets and it will still get the job done. SubSplit is a really cool stall breaker that abuses the hell out of Blissey/P2 switch-ins and I am more than willing to give a whirl. Life Orb will definitely be giving it a lot more power still netting the 2HKO on Mega Blastoise after Stealth Rocks. Thanks for the suggestion!

The creep on Abomasnow is very tempting but the bulk is also a necessity seeing as it is my primary switch in to most Bulky Waters. I'm going to give Special Abomasnow a try first but I am willing to see how the speed adds up.

I really do like the idea of Taunt Cobalion over Substitute. Taunt beats Stall far easier and Substitute is great against Offensive switch-ins, I honestly believe both sets are on par with each other. I will be giving this a chance for sure seeing as Stall users are a pain (not mentioning any name heh).

 

[sniperr]

hello very solid team. minor change, I would run toxic on tentacruel. normallly blastoise tries to switch in 1v1 to spin. with toxic you'll be able to wear him down pretty quickly and may even get t spikes up. I'd switch it for knock off.

 

[Vapo]

Hey shiny sparrow, cool team! I like the Toxic Spikes + Hail combination a lot. Overall, your team looks solid (and it obviously is considering your impressive ladder peak). There isn't much I would suggest, but I do have a few things that may improve your team:

• I would definitely speed creep at least a bit on Mega Abomasnow. Being able to outspeed Base 30s (Reuniclus, Slowking, other Mega Abomasnow) is extremely helpful and only takes a few EVs. While the amount you creep is up to you, I would personally change your spread to 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe. You don't lose much bulk at all but creep more than most Base 30s would consider. I personally don't think creeping Doublade is that important, as you have to compromise a large portion of your bulk to do so. Many Doublades are also opting to run Gyro Ball and 0 Spe IVs, and you will outspeed those variants without creeping at all.
• You said in the RMT that Nido's are a threat towards your team. If you aren't running Snorlax or another fat normal type, generally Nido's are difficult to switch into. That being said, I would like to suggest an interesting set for Cobalion that I feel fits your team nicely. I would suggest changing Substitute -> Magnet Rise, as this will give you an immunity to ground and allow you to set up on the likes of Nidoqueen and Nidoking lacking Fire Blast, Krookodile lacking superpower, Mamoswine, Gligar, and many others. Since you no longer have substitute to block status, I would recommend switching Leftovers -> Lum Berry to allow you to shrug off Will-o-Wisps, Twaves, and Scald burns.

Overall a nice team! I really like the look of it, especially the Tspikes + Hail residual damage core, so I'll probably be trying this out myself. Hope you try out my suggestions, and good luck :]

Team w/ Suggestions

Acid Rain (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Alluring (Chandelure) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 160 HP / 152 SpA / 4 SpD / 192 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball

Flying Scoprion (Gligar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roost

Gangrene (Abomasnow) @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Liger 0 (Cobalion) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Magnet Rise
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

Triple Threat (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

 

[shiny sparrow]

Hey shiny sparrow, cool team! I like the Toxic Spikes + Hail combination a lot. Overall, your team looks solid (and it obviously is considering your impressive ladder peak). There isn't much I would suggest, but I do have a few things that may improve your team:

• I would definitely speed creep at least a bit on Mega Abomasnow. Being able to outspeed Base 30s (Reuniclus, Slowking, other Mega Abomasnow) is extremely helpful and only takes a few EVs. While the amount you creep is up to you, I would personally change your spread to 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe. You don't lose much bulk at all but creep more than most Base 30s would consider. I personally don't think creeping Doublade is that important, as you have to compromise a large portion of your bulk to do so. Many Doublades are also opting to run Gyro Ball and 0 Spe IVs, and you will outspeed those variants without creeping at all.
• You said in the RMT that Nido's are a threat towards your team. If you aren't running Snorlax or another fat normal type, generally Nido's are difficult to switch into. That being said, I would like to suggest an interesting set for Cobalion that I feel fits your team nicely. I would suggest changing Substitute -> Magnet Rise, as this will give you an immunity to ground and allow you to set up on the likes of Nidoqueen and Nidoking lacking Fire Blast, Krookodile lacking superpower, Mamoswine, Gligar, and many others. Since you no longer have substitute to block status, I would recommend switching Leftovers -> Lum Berry to allow you to shrug off Will-o-Wisps, Twaves, and Scald burns.

Overall a nice team! I really like the look of it, especially the Tspikes + Hail residual damage core, so I'll probably be trying this out myself. Hope you try out my suggestions, and good luck :]

Team w/ Suggestions

Acid Rain (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes

Alluring (Chandelure) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 160 HP / 152 SpA / 4 SpD / 192 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball

Flying Scoprion (Gligar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roost

Gangrene (Abomasnow) @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Liger 0 (Cobalion) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Magnet Rise
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

Triple Threat (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Hello Vapo! Thanks for the rate, I really appreciate it :]

Thank you for some very solid suggestions, if I ever do get around to it, I will be giving Magnet Rise Cobalion a play. It patches up the teams Ground Pokemon weakness nicely - bar Super Power Krook (LOL). The speed creep on Aboma doesn't hurt either - also beating opposing Abomasnow is nice too, an underrated threat to the team!

Currently I am running an updated version of the team (I will update the OP):

- U-Turn Gligar helps tremendously, momentum is such a valuable thing to have on this team! (thanks Lapras!)
- LO Chandelure puts in a lot of work, Sub-Split of course working wonders at whittling down the opponents team.
- Taunt Cobalion is also another change I've made, it really does help versus switch-ins - defoggers in particular. (thank you Christo The Gr8)
- Lastly, Specially orientated Abomasnow is amazing! Doing massive damage to switch-ins such as Forretress and Doublade is nice, also patching up the slight bulky water weakness inherent to this team (Scald is broken, heh). Providing Abomasnow with some much needed longevity is nice too. (thank you Serperior for Uber)

 

[Registeel ya girl]

why are you running Modest nature on ur snow?

 

[jjoshcja]

Tspike strat's are always fun, I like concept behind the team itself so forgive me for saying...

Sorry but...I don't get it. Sir please explain.

+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chandelure: 230-271 (88.1 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 231-273 (79.9 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

With this team if you see a slurpuff you're absolutely forced to U-turn with gligar and hydrie every single time. Or you just lose. Even with 0 damage on chandy and an incredibly aggressive spin from tenta vs HO you're still playing out games 2 vs 6 against players who know how to just click win instead of trying to randomly "predict" this team. Hell, even if you manage to play perfectly puff can still get a high roll and just win.

Why are you still running scarf hydrie with this sort of disastrous matchup? I get that it's typing is huge for you and that scarf draco with rocks up is a reasonable safety net vs quite a few mons when coupled with megasnow ice shard, but is a set that cant even ohko 0/0 maero without rocks really worth running on this team?

Looking at your team comp something like Lucario > Cobalion would work well.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake/Extreme Speed
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

I hate to change mon's on a team this close to complete but this can help a bit in every area your team really suffers in, Puff, Maero, Nido's It does work for you, it also works really well with your fun times sub CM eball chandy who can lure in and merc bulky waters for him, along with your theme of wither damage in general. The current spread outruns base 86 252+ speed mons but I would actually consider adamant 252 if you chose to run dual priority.

This lets you run a Taunt LO Hydriegon, You may prefer a non draco move but I mean, tspikes + taunt hydrie seems like a perfect marriage to me in general.