Double Team, OHKO, Wobbuffet

Which one would you like to be allowed (for a while)?

  • Double Team

    Votes: 42 24.1%

  • Double Team (but not with Baton Pass)

    Votes: 47 27.0%

  • OHKO

    Votes: 71 40.8%

  • Wobbuffet

    Votes: 95 54.6%

  • None of the above

    Votes: 41 23.6%
  • Total voters
    174
  • Poll closed .
Mekkah

Mekkah

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Vote which of these you would want to try out in DP. If you're going to state why it'd be good if you didn't start at the very beginning again or bring up pointless things like Faint Attack, Swift or "Wobbuffet can be countered with Gardevoir and Porygon2". I included a BPless Double Team option because that is what I like. :]

Anyway, I voted Double Team sans Baton Pass and OHKO. OHKOs are mostly on dumb Pokemon except for things like Lapras and Articuno, both of which will be Stealth Rock nerfed to hell. It's also going to miss nearly all the freaking time while you could've been doing something else. Double Team without Baton Pass, as pointed out by Hipmonlee's thread, is simply not going to work because it hurts your versatility, power or stability too much to be really effective.

Wobbuffet, however, seems to overcentralize the metagame too much.
 
For reasons stated in 'A Missed Opportunity', I'd like Double Team (sans Baton Pass) and OHKOs to be in the DP metagame.
 
I voted the wrong baton pass.

But I think that everything should be legal, except ubers, and cheap items, and that with the modification to shadow tag and beatiful skin, wob can be at least tested out in standard.

OHKO is luck dependant and therefore has a high risk factor, and is hardly likely to become staple.

DT should be allowed in as it seems there are enough viable counters, with haze et al, and the new machamp. I'll probably carry machamp just in case of DT.

But DT with baton pass should perhaps be considered cheap?
 
you could´ve added a "none of these" option for people who want to vote but are against all of the options

which one I want to test if it´s broken or which one I want to be allowed no matter how broken they are?

I voted all three, DT, 1hko and wobby, I´d like to see them being allowed and tested in the beginning
 
I voted to try out everything, including Baton Pass with DT and Wobbu, and then, after playtesting, possibly laugh at how they're ridiculously broken, and possibly ban them. But first I say we should try them out.
 
That was because two Wobbuffets could trap each other mid game. That can't happen anymore, so two Wobbuffets being stuck against each other is like two Blissey being stuck against each other in that they have to be the very last Pokemon, so Leftovers is fine on it. EDIT: Crazy damage on Struggle, two Blisseys *will* kill each other.
 
Struggle: Now deals recoil equal to 1/4 user's total HP, rounded down.

Beats out Leftovers anyway. Apparently two Blisseys can kill each other 8)
 
Yes, it does 1/4 of your maximum HP to yourself.

EDIT: Like tenchi17 just said.
 
I'm interjecting just to say that I'm honestly surprised that more people are willing to use allow Wobbuffet in for testing than OHKO moves.

EDIT: Power? I meant people. Must be the lack of sleep.
 
I voted all 3 but only for the sake of testing. Maybe they'll overcentrilise the metagame but as has been mentioned, there are options to coutner out there (albeit with Wobby that's a bit tougher), I'd like to see if it's possible to have a viable metagame with those included. I don't see it as being likely but it's worth a shot.
 
I voted for DT without BP, OHKO, and Wob. Could be worth trying, at least for a little while. Wobuffet being in the D/P metagame would likely make things like Toxic more popular since Wob hates to be poisoned, along with perhaps Beautiful Skin being on more than just Skarmory.
 
DT with Baton Pass is an absolutely no-no. DT is okay when it's clogging up moveslots, but when it's a free luckwhoring, that's not acceptable in the slightest.

DT WITHOUT Baton Pass is maybe worth trying. On the other hand, all it takes is one broken DTer and the game falls apart, because DT is pretty equalizing about who it screws.

OHKOs are not worth it. Yeah, they might be workable, but they completely crush stalling strategies, which IMO is kind of a problem. I know DP is looking to be very offensive as it is, but Pokemon like Blissey, Dusknoir, and Crescelia have no place in a metagame with OHKOs - which is problematic, because I feel they're going to be necessary to keep certain Pokemon from sweeping us to death. ._.

I've been thinking about Wobbuffet lately, given what we know about Pursuit and how much it bones Dugtrio. Both CBtar and CBHera 2HKO Wobbuffet with Pursuit, which is cool. On the other hand, a) you may have to sacrifice to get them in; and b) you're pretty much *required* to have them, which is a level of standardization I don't want to get into.
 
Misty said:
DT with Baton Pass is an absolutely no-no. DT is okay when it's clogging up moveslots, but when it's a free luckwhoring, that's not acceptable in the slightest.

DT WITHOUT Baton Pass is maybe worth trying. On the other hand, all it takes is one broken DTer and the game falls apart, because DT is pretty equalizing about who it screws.

OHKOs are not worth it. Yeah, they might be workable, but they completely crush stalling strategies, which IMO is kind of a problem. I know DP is looking to be very offensive as it is, but Pokemon like Blissey, Dusknoir, and Crescelia have no place in a metagame with OHKOs - which is problematic, because I feel they're going to be necessary to keep certain Pokemon from sweeping us to death. ._.

I've been thinking about Wobbuffet lately, given what we know about Pursuit and how much it bones Dugtrio. Both CBtar and CBHera 2HKO Wobbuffet with Pursuit, which is cool. On the other hand, a) you may have to sacrifice to get them in; and b) you're pretty much *required* to have them, which is a level of standardization I don't want to get into.
Click to expand...

Beautiful Skin and Somersaulters switching to ghosts are two ways to counter Wob without Hera and TTar. I'm more afraid of Wob running Encore setups for the whole team than doing Counter / Mirror Coat stuff.
 
I voted for everything, big surprise there. The new-and-improved effects of Taunt and Pursuit almost singlehandedly change how effective DT, Baton Pass and Wobbuffet will be, not to mention how much more offensive in general this metagame is expected to be.

However, let's not lose sight of the "(for a while)", which I feel would be the entire point of such an exercise. If it's determined that Misty and other people's pessimism is well-placed, we can always remove them again.
 
Misty said:
I know DP is looking to be very offensive as it is, but Pokemon like Blissey, Dusknoir, and Crescelia have no place in a metagame with OHKOs - which is problematic, because I feel they're going to be necessary to keep certain Pokemon from sweeping us to death. ._.
Click to expand...
-> like there are no other pkmn besides those three to stall...huh? still, dusknoir is immune to 2/4 1hko moves and has pressure, cresselia is immune to fissure...pissey deserves to die anyway, people who can´t play without it shouldn´t play pkmn IMO

Misty said:
Both CBtar and CBHera 2HKO Wobbuffet with Pursuit, which is cool. On the other hand, a) you may have to sacrifice to get them in; and b) you're pretty much *required* to have them, which is a level of standardization I don't want to get into.
Click to expand...
-> you want stalling strategies and see blissey/cresselia/dusknoir (which are in every RMT) as required...but on the other hand you say you are against standardization? I don´t get it

this could be helpful, a list of pkmn who learn 1hko moves:
-> sheer cold: dewgong, lapras, articuno, glalie, walrein, abomasnow, kyogre
-> fissure: dugtrio, mamoswine, torkoal, bastiodon, gastrodon, camerupt, flygon, wormadam, hippowdon, whiscash, snorlax, donphan, wailord, walrein, groudon
-> horn drill: rhyperior, nidoking, seaking, lapras, rapidash, dewgong
-> guillotine: gliscor, pinsir, kingler, crawdaunt
STURDY: skarmory, magnezone, steelix, forretress, probopass, aggron, bastiodon, shuckle, golem, sudowoodo

- sheer cold group - none of them on the current "threats list", kyogre is uber
- horn drill group - none on the "threats list" except rhyperior, drilling behind a sub could be really nasty for waters; ghosts are immune, dusknoir/spiritomb add pressure, mismagius/gar levitate>fissure, phan can take on rhyperior
- guillotine group - aerial ace/knock off/feather rest/guillotine gliscor could be fun, the other three pkmn could see some more use
- fissure group - the biggest one with the biggest threats, most of them would still like to 100% quake than 30% fissure, there is a high number of flyers/levitator who are immune
 
I think Wobbuffet should be tested as well as OHKO's and Double Team without baton pass, at least for a short period of time.
 
Well, Peterko, the threat list is kinda assuming a DT-less, OHKO-less metagame, but you do have a point about the metagame becoming overcentralised by Blissey and/or Cresselia.

But yeah, I won't elaborate further, since I have already talked too much about this.
 
Peterko said:
none of them on the current "threats list", kyogre is uber
Click to expand...

To be fair, I purposely didn't factor in OHKOs or ubers when I made that threat checklist, because they are included in neither the current Advance Metagame nor the proposed DP one that the majority of us will play.
 
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