srk1214
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Doubles CCAT #2 - Completed!
- Thread starter BlankZero
- Start date
srk1214
Agreeing, with Darkmalice, Salamence's ability to switch into ground and fighting attacks and intimidate are very useful for the team. It running special moves also helps against the physical version's wekaness to intimidate.
However, I would change one thing, if that is allowed. Scarfmence isn't really the best idea- I would rather have it be LO Tailwind. Tailwind supports Bisharp with it's low speed, and lets Terrakion outspeed weather sweepers such as Venusaur.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Hydro Pump / Protect
-Tailwind
-Fire blast / Heat Wave
This set I feel would fit even better than the scarf set, and thus (I'm not fully sure if it is allowed to be changed like, didn't see it in the rules ?_? , but yeah.
Tangela...
pwne edit: this set doesnt have tailwind lmao, i assume you meant to put it over dpulse?
whoops u r right thanks pwne
Agreeing, with Darkmalice, Salamence's ability to switch into ground and fighting attacks and intimidate are very useful for the team. It running special moves also helps against the physical version's wekaness to intimidate.
However, I would change one thing, if that is allowed. Scarfmence isn't really the best idea- I would rather have it be LO Tailwind. Tailwind supports Bisharp with it's low speed, and lets Terrakion outspeed weather sweepers such as Venusaur.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Hydro Pump / Protect
-Tailwind
-Fire blast / Heat Wave
This set I feel would fit even better than the scarf set, and thus (I'm not fully sure if it is allowed to be changed like, didn't see it in the rules ?_? , but yeah.
Tangela...
pwne edit: this set doesnt have tailwind lmao, i assume you meant to put it over dpulse?
whoops u r right thanks pwne
Last edited:
srk1214
Srk's Salamence is the winner!
Please commence fourth Pokemon nominations.
IDC if you vote for yourself in any round btw. Just to clear that all up.
Also, please keep it serious. If you're gonna nominate Tangela, give me more than a Blank Post of information on it.
This round ends February 18th.
Arcticblast edit: bold police
Blank edit: I DO WHAT I WANT
pwne edit: no you don't
Blank edit: leave my gd posts alone ffs.
Please commence fourth Pokemon nominations.
IDC if you vote for yourself in any round btw. Just to clear that all up.
Also, please keep it serious. If you're gonna nominate Tangela, give me more than a Blank Post of information on it.
This round ends February 18th.
Arcticblast edit: bold police
Blank edit: I DO WHAT I WANT
pwne edit: no you don't
Blank edit: leave my gd posts alone ffs.
Last edited:
So I know Pwnemon (and others) have these evil plans to change my Scarf Mence to a Tailwind user in the revision stage. Screw that. We shall add a Tailwind user now!
Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 64 SpA / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
-Tailwind
-Will-o-Wisp
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
Tailwind provides Bisharp in particular with some great team support, though Terrakion and even Mence can appreciate it too, not to mention whatever comes later. Will-o-Wisp is always handy in a meta with Mega Kangaskhan and Bisharp, etc, should Terrakion not be able to help at the moment.
252 HP / 96 Def ensures that Mew never dies to 2 CB Brave Birds from Talonflame after Sitrus. This was the benchmark I picked since we can't burn it. However, it's also easily enough to always live Fake Out + Double Edge from Kangaskhan after Sitrus activates between Double Edge's two hits. And it even has a decent chance of living 2 CB Dragon Claws from Kyurem-B.
On the special side, 252 HP / 80 SpD ensures Mew never dies to a Timid CharY Overheat or a Modest CharY Fire Blast and it also avoids a 2HKO from Modest Heat Wave after Sitrus. It also lives plenty of other strong special hits, obviously.
16 Spe ensures we outspeed all Bisharp (because I assume Jolly isn't a thing), so we can Will-o-Wisp it.
The remaining 64 EVs were then put into SpA for Ice Beam, which is enough to OHKO Salamence, Shaymin-S, or Landorus-T, and has a 81.3% chance to OHKO Garchomp. It also has a 65.2% chance to 2HKO Latios.
For the final slot I debated a few moves, including Helping Hand, Transform, and an emergency Trick Room. Instead, I settled on Earth Power, which is handy for a team that seems it might mind Heatran. It also gives us something to do vs Bisharp or Terrakion, etc after we've burned them.
Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 64 SpA / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
-Tailwind
-Will-o-Wisp
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
Tailwind provides Bisharp in particular with some great team support, though Terrakion and even Mence can appreciate it too, not to mention whatever comes later. Will-o-Wisp is always handy in a meta with Mega Kangaskhan and Bisharp, etc, should Terrakion not be able to help at the moment.
252 HP / 96 Def ensures that Mew never dies to 2 CB Brave Birds from Talonflame after Sitrus. This was the benchmark I picked since we can't burn it. However, it's also easily enough to always live Fake Out + Double Edge from Kangaskhan after Sitrus activates between Double Edge's two hits. And it even has a decent chance of living 2 CB Dragon Claws from Kyurem-B.
On the special side, 252 HP / 80 SpD ensures Mew never dies to a Timid CharY Overheat or a Modest CharY Fire Blast and it also avoids a 2HKO from Modest Heat Wave after Sitrus. It also lives plenty of other strong special hits, obviously.
16 Spe ensures we outspeed all Bisharp (because I assume Jolly isn't a thing), so we can Will-o-Wisp it.
The remaining 64 EVs were then put into SpA for Ice Beam, which is enough to OHKO Salamence, Shaymin-S, or Landorus-T, and has a 81.3% chance to OHKO Garchomp. It also has a 65.2% chance to 2HKO Latios.
For the final slot I debated a few moves, including Helping Hand, Transform, and an emergency Trick Room. Instead, I settled on Earth Power, which is handy for a team that seems it might mind Heatran. It also gives us something to do vs Bisharp or Terrakion, etc after we've burned them.
I kinda like an emergency Trick Room, but you all seem to have a Tailwind hardon.
Helping Hand gets a great mention, making Mew more of a support glue mon.
Transform is fun little gimmick and can be really surprising if used correctly.
Earth Power is ok, but we already destroy Heatran with Terrakion and Salamence doesn't give any shits about any of its common moves (unless you're like me and run Ancientpower for lolz).
I really like the EVs though. Well done!
Helping Hand gets a great mention, making Mew more of a support glue mon.
Transform is fun little gimmick and can be really surprising if used correctly.
Earth Power is ok, but we already destroy Heatran with Terrakion and Salamence doesn't give any shits about any of its common moves (unless you're like me and run Ancientpower for lolz).
I really like the EVs though. Well done!
Salamence is likely to be locked in on Fire Blast or one of the Dragon moves a good deal of the time, giving Heatran free chances to Sub. I do realize we resist Heat Wave and are immune to Earth Power, but that doesn't mean Salamence beats Heatran.
(and full credit for help on the EVs goes to a crowd on IRC at the time, especially pocket, audio, and arctic)
(and full credit for help on the EVs goes to a crowd on IRC at the time, especially pocket, audio, and arctic)
My main thing is that, while Tailwind is a great support move, it is completely countered by Trick Room. A single use of Tailwind leaves you very, very open to TR setting, making you open as fuck to a quick turnaround. I'll be posting a set this round too to address this issue, but I figured I'd give my thoughts on Tailwind setting.
You can usually tell from Team Preview if the opponent is running Trick Room or not. Semi-TR is harder but can suspected too. Having Tailwind doesn't mean you will set it up against a TR team, and it would help you against every other team - it's not necessary, but it's helpful.
Bisharp is also great against TR teams. Though I do agree that extra insurance against TR teams would help.
I've been running TR on Cress as speed control. Icy Wind Spam? T Wave spam? Tailwind teams? Denied.
Trick Room teams? Reset it on them.
My point was that Tailwind shouldn't be dismissed because it works badly against TR teams. My post doesn't really involve TR Cress.
Besides, Cress should always be suspected on having TR unless suspected otherwise - think twice before setting up Tailwind up against a team with Cress.
Besides, Cress should always be suspected on having TR unless suspected otherwise - think twice before setting up Tailwind up against a team with Cress.
My bad, I didn't really phrase that well.
What I was getting at, which you already hit at, is that Cress can easily throw in TR on almost any set, which was directed at your quote:
If you see a Cress and you're running Tailwind, you're usually gonna have a bad time. It will always have some sort of Speed control, best case Icy Wind, worst case TR. TWave is also something you're gonna run into and it will give you issues with you having a quarter of your speed. I personally have had a ton of success in Gen 5 with Tailwind teams, and atm I dislike it. Not because it's ineffective, but because it is hard countered by Trick Room entirely, and we have no disruption (currently). I feel the safer pick would be a Semi-TR setup, but with so many fast threats, idk, so I'll throw in my nomination.
Cresselia @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Safeguard
- Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
I'm nominating Support Cress with TWave instead of Trick Room. As I said, Trick Room is a hard counter to us with so many fast threats, so why not increase that speed gap with TWave? while it gives us a bit more of a TR weakness, Parahax has a chance at giving us free turns, and with Lum/Safeguard, we now have some insurance against the (incoming) Sleep Clause Test, which gives us a bit of future-proofing for later, but also because it's very useful to not worry about burns, paralyze, etc. Lum Berry gives us some insurance against the first turn Sleep from faster threats like Breloom, or even ChloroSaur, which i see rising to a huge dominance fairly soon. Helping Hand gives us some extra power with Cress being able to give a 1.5x boost to it's partner. 1.5x boost to Terrakion Rock Slide, or a Bisharp Suckerpunch makes it scarier than usual.
The EVs are fairly straightforward, with 252/252+ dodging the 2HKO from max atk TTar Crunch 99.96% of the time even after Sand damage.
just gonna throw out another cress idea
Cresselia (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 SAtk / 252 HP / 96 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
- Helping Hand
cresselia just fits really well on a team with bisharp and terrakion. offensive cresselia could work well since it checks two of our big concerns right now; landorus-t and fighting types, plus it's not very expected. this spread ohko's landorus-t, garchomp, salamence, and 2hko's latios with ice beam. psyshock ohko's breloom and 2hko's 80 HP / 96 Def conkeldurr and 252 HP hitmontop. levitate gives it a nifty ground immunity, so that's always nice when dealing with garchomp or landorus.
252 HP / 96 Def lives a lot of stuff and is always 3hko'd by cb adamant talonflame. helping hand is fantastic support and cress can function under trick room or be an anti-tr pokemon, so it gives a lot of options.
Cresselia (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 SAtk / 252 HP / 96 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
- Helping Hand
cresselia just fits really well on a team with bisharp and terrakion. offensive cresselia could work well since it checks two of our big concerns right now; landorus-t and fighting types, plus it's not very expected. this spread ohko's landorus-t, garchomp, salamence, and 2hko's latios with ice beam. psyshock ohko's breloom and 2hko's 80 HP / 96 Def conkeldurr and 252 HP hitmontop. levitate gives it a nifty ground immunity, so that's always nice when dealing with garchomp or landorus.
252 HP / 96 Def lives a lot of stuff and is always 3hko'd by cb adamant talonflame. helping hand is fantastic support and cress can function under trick room or be an anti-tr pokemon, so it gives a lot of options.
160+ SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 316-372 (88.2 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
160+ SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 126-150 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It's not as strong as you say it is. If you're going offensive, you need more SpAtk and less Defense to get the KOs you want. But even 252+ doesn't guarantee everything. 252+ SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 344-408 (96 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO.
If you want Trick Room and enough SpAtk to OHKO the things you want to kill, you're better off with Mew, Slowbro/king, or even Mesprit. Reuniclus and Meloetta are powerful too though they lack Ice Beam.
That's not to say that it's a bad set. But the calcs are off.
EDIT: o... my bad. hm expert belt not bad.
160+ SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 126-150 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
It's not as strong as you say it is. If you're going offensive, you need more SpAtk and less Defense to get the KOs you want. But even 252+ doesn't guarantee everything. 252+ SpA Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 344-408 (96 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO.
If you want Trick Room and enough SpAtk to OHKO the things you want to kill, you're better off with Mew, Slowbro/king, or even Mesprit. Reuniclus and Meloetta are powerful too though they lack Ice Beam.
That's not to say that it's a bad set. But the calcs are off.
EDIT: o... my bad. hm expert belt not bad.
Last edited:
You forgot Expert Belt...
160+ SpA Expert Belt Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 379-446 (105.8 - 124.5%)
160+ SpA Expert Belt Cresselia Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 151-180 (50 - 59.6%)
Braverius used Expert Belt Cress in his last SPL match (I think) and it actually does hit significantly hard enough to scare things out and even (like with Latios) ensure some 2HKOs.
Pwne: that was specs
Oh
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Begin voting for the 4th mon!
Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 64 SpA / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
-Tailwind
-Will-o-Wisp
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
Tailwind provides Bisharp in particular with some great team support, though Terrakion and even Mence can appreciate it too, not to mention whatever comes later. Will-o-Wisp is always handy in a meta with Mega Kangaskhan and Bisharp, etc, should Terrakion not be able to help at the moment.
252 HP / 96 Def ensures that Mew never dies to 2 CB Brave Birds from Talonflame after Sitrus. This was the benchmark I picked since we can't burn it. However, it's also easily enough to always live Fake Out + Double Edge from Kangaskhan after Sitrus activates between Double Edge's two hits. And it even has a decent chance of living 2 CB Dragon Claws from Kyurem-B.
On the special side, 252 HP / 80 SpD ensures Mew never dies to a Timid CharY Overheat or a Modest CharY Fire Blast and it also avoids a 2HKO from Modest Heat Wave after Sitrus. It also lives plenty of other strong special hits, obviously.
16 Spe ensures we outspeed all Bisharp (because I assume Jolly isn't a thing), so we can Will-o-Wisp it.
The remaining 64 EVs were then put into SpA for Ice Beam, which is enough to OHKO Salamence, Shaymin-S, or Landorus-T, and has a 81.3% chance to OHKO Garchomp. It also has a 65.2% chance to 2HKO Latios.
For the final slot I debated a few moves, including Helping Hand, Transform, and an emergency Trick Room. Instead, I settled on Earth Power, which is handy for a team that seems it might mind Heatran. It also gives us something to do vs Bisharp or Terrakion, etc after we've burned them.
Cresselia @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Safeguard
- Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
I'm nominating Support Cress with TWave instead of Trick Room. As I said, Trick Room is a hard counter to us with so many fast threats, so why not increase that speed gap with TWave? while it gives us a bit more of a TR weakness, Parahax has a chance at giving us free turns, and with Lum/Safeguard, we now have some insurance against the (incoming) Sleep Clause Test, which gives us a bit of future-proofing for later, but also because it's very useful to not worry about burns, paralyze, etc. Lum Berry gives us some insurance against the first turn Sleep from faster threats like Breloom, or even ChloroSaur, which i see rising to a huge dominance fairly soon. Helping Hand gives us some extra power with Cress being able to give a 1.5x boost to it's partner. 1.5x boost to Terrakion Rock Slide, or a Bisharp Suckerpunch makes it scarier than usual.
The EVs are fairly straightforward, with 252/252+ dodging the 2HKO from max atk TTar Crunch 99.96% of the time even after Sand damage.
Cresselia (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 SAtk / 252 HP / 96 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
- Helping Hand
cresselia just fits really well on a team with bisharp and terrakion. offensive cresselia could work well since it checks two of our big concerns right now; landorus-t and fighting types, plus it's not very expected. this spread ohko's landorus-t, garchomp, salamence, and 2hko's latios with ice beam. psyshock ohko's breloom and 2hko's 80 HP / 96 Def conkeldurr and 252 HP hitmontop. levitate gives it a nifty ground immunity, so that's always nice when dealing with garchomp or landorus.
252 HP / 96 Def lives a lot of stuff and is always 3hko'd by cb adamant talonflame. helping hand is fantastic support and cress can function under trick room or be an anti-tr pokemon, so it gives a lot of options.
LET THE BATTLE OF THE PSYCHIC CUTEMONS COMMENCE!
You have 3 days to vote.
Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 64 SpA / 80 SpD / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
-Tailwind
-Will-o-Wisp
-Ice Beam
-Earth Power
Tailwind provides Bisharp in particular with some great team support, though Terrakion and even Mence can appreciate it too, not to mention whatever comes later. Will-o-Wisp is always handy in a meta with Mega Kangaskhan and Bisharp, etc, should Terrakion not be able to help at the moment.
252 HP / 96 Def ensures that Mew never dies to 2 CB Brave Birds from Talonflame after Sitrus. This was the benchmark I picked since we can't burn it. However, it's also easily enough to always live Fake Out + Double Edge from Kangaskhan after Sitrus activates between Double Edge's two hits. And it even has a decent chance of living 2 CB Dragon Claws from Kyurem-B.
On the special side, 252 HP / 80 SpD ensures Mew never dies to a Timid CharY Overheat or a Modest CharY Fire Blast and it also avoids a 2HKO from Modest Heat Wave after Sitrus. It also lives plenty of other strong special hits, obviously.
16 Spe ensures we outspeed all Bisharp (because I assume Jolly isn't a thing), so we can Will-o-Wisp it.
The remaining 64 EVs were then put into SpA for Ice Beam, which is enough to OHKO Salamence, Shaymin-S, or Landorus-T, and has a 81.3% chance to OHKO Garchomp. It also has a 65.2% chance to 2HKO Latios.
For the final slot I debated a few moves, including Helping Hand, Transform, and an emergency Trick Room. Instead, I settled on Earth Power, which is handy for a team that seems it might mind Heatran. It also gives us something to do vs Bisharp or Terrakion, etc after we've burned them.
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Safeguard
- Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast
I'm nominating Support Cress with TWave instead of Trick Room. As I said, Trick Room is a hard counter to us with so many fast threats, so why not increase that speed gap with TWave? while it gives us a bit more of a TR weakness, Parahax has a chance at giving us free turns, and with Lum/Safeguard, we now have some insurance against the (incoming) Sleep Clause Test, which gives us a bit of future-proofing for later, but also because it's very useful to not worry about burns, paralyze, etc. Lum Berry gives us some insurance against the first turn Sleep from faster threats like Breloom, or even ChloroSaur, which i see rising to a huge dominance fairly soon. Helping Hand gives us some extra power with Cress being able to give a 1.5x boost to it's partner. 1.5x boost to Terrakion Rock Slide, or a Bisharp Suckerpunch makes it scarier than usual.
The EVs are fairly straightforward, with 252/252+ dodging the 2HKO from max atk TTar Crunch 99.96% of the time even after Sand damage.
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 SAtk / 252 HP / 96 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Trick Room
- Helping Hand
cresselia just fits really well on a team with bisharp and terrakion. offensive cresselia could work well since it checks two of our big concerns right now; landorus-t and fighting types, plus it's not very expected. this spread ohko's landorus-t, garchomp, salamence, and 2hko's latios with ice beam. psyshock ohko's breloom and 2hko's 80 HP / 96 Def conkeldurr and 252 HP hitmontop. levitate gives it a nifty ground immunity, so that's always nice when dealing with garchomp or landorus.
252 HP / 96 Def lives a lot of stuff and is always 3hko'd by cb adamant talonflame. helping hand is fantastic support and cress can function under trick room or be an anti-tr pokemon, so it gives a lot of options.
LET THE BATTLE OF THE PSYCHIC CUTEMONS COMMENCE!
You have 3 days to vote.
