Doubles Speed Tiers

Audiosurfer

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#1
approved by Joim

It is a well-known fact that EVing your Pokemon can be essential to a team's success in the Doubles metagame. It is something so important that a whole TOTW was devoted towards exploring the best way to maximize the effect of your EVs. However, many people may find it daunting to attempt to keep track of the many different benchmarks there are in the Doubles metagame, and will thus resort to inferior 252/252 spreads as opposed to finding spreads that will best fit their team. This thread's goal is to provide an easy to access list of benchmarks to make it easier to calculate spreads for your Pokemon. In addition to the Speed benchmarks, there is a list of important offensive and defensive benchmarks to consider when EVing that is available below. Sadly, this list is likely missing things, so if you feel that there is an important benchmark being left out, be sure to mention it.
Speed Tiers:
Format: Speed / Pokemon / Base Speed / Nature (+Spe, -Spe, or Neutral) / EV Investment / Boost
* - An asterisk next to the nature indicates that the Pokemon has 0 Speed IVs
** - Two asterisks next to the boost indicates that the speed factors in a drop from Icy Wind

Tier 0 (Boost Required)
776 / Shaymin-S / 127 / +Spe / 252 / 2
706 / Tornadus / 111 / +Spe / 252 / 2
700 / Latios, Latias / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 2
656 / Zapdos, Volcarona / 100 / +Spe / 2
604 / Excadrill / 88 / +Spe / 252 2
558 / Lilligant / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 2
550 / Excadrill / 88 / Neutral / 252 / 2
538 / Kingdra, Blaziken / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 2
519 / Terrakion / 108 / +Spe / 252 / 1
518 / Venusaur, Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 2
492 / Volcarona / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 1
489 / Genesect / 99 / +Spe / 252 / 1
478 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 2
475 / Kyurem, Kyurem-B / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 1
463 / Landorus-T / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 1
447 / Rotom-A / 86 / +Spe / 252 / 1
439 / Terrakion / 108 / Neutral / 164 / 1

Tier 1 (Neutral base 100s to Max Base 150 Speed)
438 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / +Spe / 252 / 0
433 / Genesect / 99 / +Spe / 116 / 1
433 / Kyurem, Kyurem-B / 95 / Neutral / 252 / 1
426 / Chandelure / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 1
404 / Excadrill / 88 / +Spe / 252 / 2**
399 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / Neutral / 252 / 0
394 / Aerodactyl, Jolteon / 130 / +Spe / 252 / 0
390 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 76 / 2
388 / Shaymin-S / 127 / +Spe / 252 / 0
388 / Blaziken, Chandelure / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 1
383 / Darkrai / 125 / +Spe / 252 / 0
366 / Excadrill / 88 / Neutral / 252 / 2**
364 / Tyranitar / 61 / +Spe / 252 / 1
361 / Raikou / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
360 / Abomasnow / 60 / +Spe / 252/ 1
359 / Aerodactyl, Jolteon / 130 / Neutral / 252 / 0
358 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 2**
353 / Shaymin-S / 127 / Neutral / 252 / 0
353 / Tornadus, Thundurus / 111 / +Spe / 252 / 0
350 / Latios, Latias / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0
346 / Terrakion, Virizion, Infernape / 108 / +Spe / 252 / 0
345 / Venusaur, Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 2**
333 / Garchomp / 102 / +Spe / 252 / 0
331 / Landorus / 101 / +Spe / 252 / 0
328 / Volcarona, Salamence, Manaphy, Zapdos / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
326 / Genesect / 99 / +Spe / 252 / 0
324 / Hydreigon / 98 / +Spe / 252 / 0
318 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 2**
309 / Landorus-T / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0
302 / Excadrill / 88 / +Spe / 252 / 0
299 / Volcarona, Manaphy, Salamence, Zapdos / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 0

Tier 2 (Max Base 85s to Min Base 71)
295 / Heracross, Suicune / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
292 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / +Spe / 252 / 0**
284 / Mamoswine / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
281 / Landorus-T / 91 / Neutral / 252 / 0
279 / Lucario, Porygon-Z, Lilligant / 90 / Neutral / 252 / 0
275 / Excadrill / 88 / Neutral / 252 / 0
269 / Kingdra, Heracross, Suicune / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
266 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / Neutral / 252 / 0**
263 / Jirachi, Volcaona, Manaphy / 100 / Neutral / 108 / 0
262 / Breloom / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
259 / Mamoswine, Chandelure, Venusaur, Blaziken, Kabutops / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0
258 / Shaymin-S / 127 / +Spe / 252 / 0**
253 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 252 / 0
243 / Tyranitar / 61 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Breloom, Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
234 / Cresselia / 85 / Neutral / 116 / 0
233 / Latios / 110 / +Spe / 252 / 0**
218 / Volcarona, Manaphy, Zapdos, Salamence / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0**
218 / Victini / 100 / +Spe / 252 / -1
208 / Rotom-A / 86 / Neutral / 0 / 0
206 / Cresselia / 85 / Neutral / 0 / 0
199 / Volcarona, Manaphy, Zapdos, Salamence / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 0**
199 / Victini / 100 / Neutral / 252 / -1
196 / Chandelure / 80 / Neutral / 0 / 0
195 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / 76 / 0
190 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 0 / 0
184 / Victini / 100 / -Spe* / 0 / 0

Tier 3 (Min Speed 70s and Under)
176 / Metagross, Hitmontop / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Scizor / 65 / Neutral / 0 / 0
158 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / 0 / 0
156 / Abomasnow, Jellicent / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
152 / Scrafty / 58 / Neutral / 0 / 0
148 / Chandelure, Gallade / 80 / -Spe* / 0 / 0
146 / Machamp / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
142 / Tyranitar / 61 / -Spe / 0 / 0
140 / Abomasnow, Jellicent / 60 / -Spe / 0 / 0
136 / Hariyama, Tangrowth, Chansey / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
126 / Conkeldurr / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
123 / Victini / 100 / -Spe* / 0 / -1
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Tyranitar / 61 / -Spe* / 0 / 0

Tier 4: (Trick Room Pokemon + Slowmons)
112 / Abomasnow, Jellicent / 60 / -Spe* / 0 / 0
102 / Bronzong / 33 / Neutral / 0 / 0
96 / Reuniclus, Slowking, Amoonguss / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
94 / Musharna / 29 / Neutral / 0 / 0
94 / Hariyama / 50 / -Spe*/ 0 / 0
86 / Dusclops / 25 / Neutral / 0 / 0
85 / Conkeldurr / 45 / -Spe* / 0 / 0
76 / Ferrothorn / 20 / Neutral / 0 / 0
63 / Bronzong / 33 / -Spe* / Neutral / 0 / 0
58 / Reuniclus, Slowking, Amoonguss / 30 / -Spe* / 0 / 0
56 / Musharna / 29 / -Spe* / 0 / 0
49 / Dusclops / 25 / -Spe*/ 0 / 0
40 / Escavalier, Ferrothorn / 20 / -Spe*/ 0 / 0

Offensive Benchmark (Opposing Pokemon you want to inflict damage / KO)
* - Indicates that you should consider accounting for Intimidate drops if calcing physical attacks
  • max HP / 12 Def Cresselia
  • max HP Gastrodon
  • max HP Tyranitar
  • max HP Politoed
  • max HP Metagross
  • max HP Hitmontop*
  • min HP Latios
  • -1 Def max HP Victini
  • max HP Jellicent
  • min HP Landorus-T*
  • 200 HP Heatran
  • min HP Latios
  • max HP & 192 +SDef Amoonguss
  • min HP Virizion
  • 240 HP / 16 SDef Rotom-W

Defense Benchmark (Opposing Pokemon's moves you want to tank)
* - Indicates that you should be sure to factor in spread damage reduction when calculating
Physical:
  • CB / Gem V-create from Victini (in or out of sun)
  • CB / Gem Close Combat from Terrakion
  • Gem Close Combat from Hitmontop (Admaant)
  • LO Hi Jump Kick from Blaziken (Adamant)
  • Gem Acrobatics from Tornadus (Jolly)
  • +2 Zen Headbutt from Metagross
  • +1 Dragon Claw from Kyurem-B
  • +1 Crunch from Tyranitar
  • Earthquake from Excadrill (plus sand damage)*
  • Earthquake from Garchomp*
  • Bug Bite from Scizor (Adamant)
  • Rock Slide from Terrakion*
  • Rock Slide from Tyranitar*
Special:
  • Gem / LO Psycho Boost from Deoxys-A
  • Gem Draco Meteor from Hydreigon (Modest)
  • Gem Draco Meteor from Latios (Timid)
  • Gem Draco Meteor from Salamence
  • Eruption from Heatran (in or out of Sun)
  • Hydro Pump from Modest Kingdra (in or out of Rain)
  • Gem Shadow Ball from Modest Chandelure
  • Blizzard from Kyurem (plus hail damage)*
  • Blizzard from Abomasnow (plus hail damage)*
  • Thunderbolt from Zapdos
  • Heat Wave from Volarona*
  • Heat Wave from Heatrun (with or without Sun)*
  • Gem Overheat from Chandelure or Volcarona
  • +1 Hydro Pump from Rotom-W (with or without Rain)
  • Life Orb-boosted Muddy Water from Modest Kingdra (with or without Rain)
  • Life Orb-boosted Giga Drain from Modest Ludicolo
 
Last edited:

Arcticblast

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#2
Add:
399 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / Neutral / 252 / 0
142 / Tyranitar / 61 / -Spe / 0 / 0
114 / Tyranitar / 61 / -Spe* / 0 / 0
40 / Escavalier, Ferrothorn / 20 / -Spe*/ 0 / 0

Replace:
176 / Chandelure, Gallade / 80 / -Spe / 0 / 0
Should probably be replaced with -Spe* (148 Spe) since neither of these run -Spe natures without Trick Room.

Remove:
234 / Cresselia / 85 / Neutral / 112 / 0
What does this outrun?
 

Audiosurfer

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#3
Ok, I'll add all of the ones that you mentioned. Thanks for the catches :) (also am adding Scarf Chandelure and Musharna, as well as min speed Ferrothorn). The reason I have that Cresselia spread is because it's the onsite spread for the offensive set (think it beats like Latios after an Icy Wind or something, you can check the analysis to verify) so I'm keeping it there.
 
#4
Should add a few speeds, like -1 for Latios and Thundurus, +1 for Excadrill/Kingdra/Ludicolo (vs +2 Sand Rush/Swift Swim).

This would be very useful for Icy Wind usage on teams, as after a single Speed drop, a lot of Pokemon become more manageable.
 

Audiosurfer

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#7
Ok, added some benchmarks factoring in speed drops. if you have any more benchmarks please let me know (this includes for the offensive and defensive benchmark list)
 

Level 51

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#8
I would edit this into your post but I think I'd need some community input first;

The list seems to lack Victini. What say you we add:
492 / Victini / 100 / +Spe / 252 / +1
328 / Victini / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
299 / Victini / 100 / Neutral / 252 / 0
184 / Victini / 100 / -Spe* / 0
123 / Victini / 100 / -Spe* / -1
 

Audiosurfer

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#11
It's for weather pokemon mostly iirc, since there is a speed difference from a +1 pokemon and a pokemon with like swift swim that got hit by an icy wind. Also it's since -1 is for pokes that hit -1 speed naturally (like Victini as a result of v-create) while the asterisks indicate its because of icy wind (might seem obvious but nice for newer players too)
 
#12
It's for weather pokemon mostly iirc, since there is a speed difference from a +1 pokemon and a pokemon with like swift swim that got hit by an icy wind. Also it's since -1 is for pokes that hit -1 speed naturally (like Victini as a result of v-create) while the asterisks indicate its because of icy wind (might seem obvious but nice for newer players too)
Can we get this thread updated and moved to XY Dubs?
 

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