Doubles Theorymonning

#1
(approved by Joim)

Many of you will have heard of the moderator Theorymon, well this idea is named after him and it involves saying things that you think would be cool and possible to happen to a pokemon in this tier. Other people should comment on the ideas as well as bringing up their own, although most of you will have taken part in the OU, UU, RU, NU and LC versions anyway...

Rules:

1) Only introduce 1 Theorymon at a time. No laundry lists of What ifs.

2) Don't introduce obviously broken Theorymon. "Basically, almost any substantial improvement to an already excellent pokemon will just mean its ban, and its not what we are looking for. Try to also think about less used pokemon that may see some usage in [Doubles] with a change." - Neliel

3) If you're going to introduce a new theorymon, provide some explanation. Why does it make sense flavor-wise? Spark some discussion by offering your first impression of how this theorymon would affect the Pokemon's viability or affect the metagame.

4) Its not necessary to only post a new idea every time, you can also just comment on past proposed theorymons.

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Keep your posts positive, for example:
What if Cresselia could abuse Eviolite?

I shouldn't have to explain how broken this would be. This tier would suck because nobody can break Cresselia and everything would be unviable. Cresselia should even be used on HO because it's so broken that theorymon is dumb why would you think of that.
Now Cresselia being able to abuse Eviolite would be very bulky and would make stall in doubles viable in a whole new way. It will become a supporter capable of lasting the whole match however when it comes to the end you have a great supporter who can't die, but that means that he won't be able to hit hard either. In some matches the supporting Cresselia could end up dead-weight so I think that offensive Cresselia with Eviolite could be a great option, especially with Calm Mind boosting her special bulk and physically defensive EVs. This would certainly make Durant great given that, even counting eviolite, choice band hustle X-Scissor OHKOs Cresselia.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Cresselia: 458-542 (103.15 - 122.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
Can you see the difference between the two posts? The first is extremely short and only looks at Cresselia, whereas the second post is fairly long and looks at the effects Cresselia would have on the metagame as a whole -- not just Cresselia being very bulky.

So go out there, and theorymon to your heart's content!
 
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Laga

Forever Grande
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#2
If Cress got recover.. Then we wouldn't need to joke about it being on every team as it WOULD be on every team. Cress already has so many uses and being able to tank hits and recover reliably would be huge for it. Tbh all its missing is follow me. So....

What if cresselia had follow me?
I don't think Recover would be that useful on anything but a Calm Mind set though. The only real form of recovery you should use on Cresselia is ChestoRest. Follow Me would make Cresselia suspect tested as soon as Gen 6 came out (when we become official) for sure though.

What if Scrafty got Close Combat?
Thank you for not posting a "what if cress got this added to its already humoungous movepool" post, and this is actually an extremely interesting suggestion. Hitmontop would face an immense amount of competition from Scrafty, as it is bulkier and the only thing that really makes Hitmontop (usually) shine brighter than Scrafty is his Gem-boosted CC. I also think that Trick Room would be used a little bit more with a powerful Pokemon such as CC Scrafty, and I would expect Hariyama to say way less usage, as it would be almost completely overshaded by Scrafty.

Time for my suggestion.

What if Keldeo had the ability Swift Swim?

I personally think that would go as far as DrizzleSwim being banned. The only thing Kingdra would have over Keldeo is Muddy Water not hitting your teammates.
 
#3
Rather than theorymoning on more or less broken things, imma take it down a notch, going for what mediocre 'mons could become. :p

For starters, what if Landorus-I got Mold Breaker?

While it is true Landorus-I isn't "mediocre", it has a tendency to be fairly outclassed by its fellow Ground 'mons, such as Landorus-T and Garchomp. With Mold Breaker, it could be a menace, essentially getting near-perfect coverage with just two moves, Breloom and Virizion being to only common resists. The ability to hit Cresselia, Rotom-Wash, Hydreigon, and others with EQ would heavily distinguish it from its competition.

Next up on my theory list, what if Blastoise didn't have its Dream World illegalities?

This would make Blastoise a complete pest in RainRoom, redirecting Taunt and harmful attacks from the Trick Room setter with Follow Me, than spamming Water Spout if it had enough HP remaining, all while recovering 6.25% health per turn. While it wouldn't be a top threat, this would certainly give it potential, as well as a useful niche.

What if Raikou, Suicune & Zapdos had their DW abilities released?

Suicune would become an absolute menace against Rain, completely walling most Water attackers with Water Absorb, and using Sunny Day/Tailwind to keep them out of your way. Zapdos & Raikou would become a trolly Discharge spam core, and Zapdos would become one of the first reliable Lightningrod abusers, allowing a partner like Jellicent or Tornadus to operate without worrying about Electric attacks. Zapdos would also become one of the best Thundurus checks/counters, preventing it from paralyzing anything, and only offensive Thundurus could really dent it with Hidden Power. Raikou would still be pretty underrated, but it could stop opposing Electric attackers with Snarl and an immunity to Electric STAB.

What if Friend Guard got a viable abuser?

While I'm struggling to find a good 'mon that could potentially make heavy use of this without the ability making no sense on it, the applications could be very helpful. Reducing 25% of the damage done to a partner would prevent a lot of potential KOs, make Cresselia all the more annoying, etc. It would certainly make for a irritable ability to play against.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
#4
What if Keldeo had the ability Swift Swim?
I personally think that would go as far as DrizzleSwim being banned. The only thing Kingdra would have over Keldeo is Muddy Water not hitting your teammates.


Not at all. Keldeo has a lot of trouble breaking two TR staples: jellicent and amoonguss. Furthermore, Kingdra, unlike Keldeo, has a spread move, so it can't be redirected with RP/FM. Keldeo is also unable to bust through Latias and Latios (and, if not HP Ice, Salamence) all of which can KO or set TW and then KO. Despite having a much higher attack and a stupidly strong Hydro Pump, Keldeo's dual STAB really doesn't help it out. And though, unlike other swift swimmers, it's still fast outside of rain, it can still be neutered by ttar or aboma switching in.

That said, Keldeo would definitely become the premier Swift Swimmer, with Kingdra and to a lesser extent Ludicolo still being legitimate options. Ferrothorn usage would suffer, since it can no longer wall all common rain sweepers to hell and back, and TR would become a much more dominant factor in the meta, being the only surefire way to stop a Keldeo.

What if Scrafty got Close Combat?
legitimately am not sure it would use it. Scrafty's biggest distinguishing factor from Hitmontop is its superior bulk. To match Hitmontop's power levels, it needs to sacrifice almost all of that bulk, losing its Sitrus berry, its Drain Punch healing, and its statistical bulk due to defense drops. At that point, Hitmontop is just the better Pokemon, having a much better supporting movepool with sucker punch, feint, and wide guard, as opposed to scrafty who basically doesnt have shit. Besides, Hitmontop's got the better speed tier.

The one time in which Scrafty would use Close Combat is on TR teams, since it doesn't lose HP every turn like Hariyama. However, Scrafty's still a lot weaker, so Hariyama usage wouldn't go to zero (but it would drop)
 

Pocket

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#5
I deleted one-liner posts / list of one-liner posts. Read the OP - please put more thought into your posts, or this thread will go to shit.

New Rule: Only introduce 1 Theorymon at a time. No laundry lists of What ifs.

New Rule II: Don't introduce obviously broken Theorymon. "Basically, almost any substantial improvement to an already excellent pokemon will just mean its ban, and its not what we are looking for. Try to also think about less used pokemon that may see some usage in [Doubles] with a change." - Neliel

If you're going to introduce a new theorymon, provide some explanation. Why does it make sense flavor-wise? Spark some discussion by offering your first impression of how this theorymon would affect the Pokemon's viability or affect the metagame.

Its not necessary to only post a new idea every time, you can also just comment on a post.

What if Scrafty gets Defiant?

Scrafty is a bad ass from the hood - it gives 0 fucks about what people say. Defiant seems like a fitting ability for a gangsta mon. That said, I don't think it will see much use over Intimidate. Scrafty's stat build is better suited for a supporter mon, and Intimidate facilitates this niche better than Defiant. Scrafty's low Speed and Attack and lack of strong priority makes for a rather poor Defiant user. A Defiant Trick Room Sweeper is certainly a path not taken, but Scrafty does meet stiff competition with other TR Fighting-types like Conkeldurr & Hariyama.

It's not a terrible option, though, and it will most likely be a viable alternative from Scrafty's main defensive niche. Scrafty does possess an amazing Fighting + Dark STAB coverage, allowing it to break through defensive behemoths like Cresselia, Tyranitar, and Heatran all on its own - a feat that Conkeldurr and the like would struggle to accomplish. Much like Hariyama, it has Fake Out to aid in setting up Trick Room. It has a rich offensive movepool to surely take this offensive route. If an offensive Cresselia set works well in Doubles, then I'm pretty sure Defiant EB Scrafty can perform just as well or even better with Defiant.
 
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#6
Defiant on Anything with a physical leaning is a godsend, as it neutralizes the threat of Intimidate. Other mons that would benefit from it include (list every physical Mon here). I can see Scrafty being used as a check to TopCress cores, because Cress doesn't wanna take a +1 Crunch, or boost it more through Icy Wind.

Something I wish we could see would be more Usable Contrary Mons. Something like Contrary Chadelure, but not AS powerful.
 

nyttyn

From Now On, We'll...
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#7
What if Scrafty gets Defiant?

I actually think this would change a lot more then Pocket is saying. Scrafty's fantastic bulk and an access to STAB Drain Punch, as well as a incredibly slow speed tier would allow it to find a niche on Trick Room teams as an anti Fake Out + Intimidate lead, as well as give it extremely interesting synergy with Mew. As Mew possesses Trick Room and access to powerful STAB Psychic to eliminate fighting types which give Bisharp trouble, it seems logical the two would go together very well. But!

What if Defiant worked if you dropped the stats of your partner?

Suddenly, pokemon with Defog would absolutely skyrocket in usage alongside users of Defiant. Latias in particular would see a huge surge in usage, as she possesses a blitzingly fast speed to Defog her partner before they can move, as well as a reasonable attack power and a great movepool in general. Bisharp would also see a huge rise in usage, as STAB Sucker Punch at +2 coming off of a base 125 Atk stat is absurdly threatening. Not to mention Tornadus, who is hard enough to handle at +1. As well as making Scrafty even sexier then before, able to fully invest in bulk with the right partners, rendering it an extremely bulky, powerful, self-healing threat.

As a result of this new threat, Taunt would likely see a huge surge in usage, with very fast and prankster Taunt users becoming incredibly in demand. Prankster Tornadus and Thunudurs would both suddenly become staples of offensive teams, with their access to priority Taunt as well as extremely powerful attacks and fantastic speed control being desirable attributes. Cressila would likely see a drop in usage, not by a lot, but her lack of Defog, Taunt, and being vulnerable to Scrafty and Bisharp in this new meta would make her considerably harder to use.
 

Pocket

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#8
Excellent entry, nyttyn. I personally think that with Defiant, then Bulk Up Scrafty would be pretty legit with Follow Me support. Scrafty can keep on piling its Attack and Defense boosts without worrying that Intimidate will screw its set up.

What if Waterfall was a Spread Move?

When I envision a Waterfall, I see it as a wide range attack that pummels both adjacent enemies - somewhat akin to Rock Slide. Granted the true translation from the Japense move is Waterfall Climb, but IDGF.

A spread Waterfall would be a great buff for physical Water-types. There's a lot of advantages going from a single-target move to a spread move. No need to worry about the other enemy that you aren't attacking or a Protect / switch from the opponent you're targeting. The reduced damage isn't a problem with Rain support, and the double chance to flinch something more than makes up for it. With this change, Waterfall can now not give fucks about Storm Drain or Rage Powder Amoonguss re-directing its moves. We may see the likes of Kabutops more often on Rain teams, now that it can target both Pokemon with a powerful STAB move with 20% flinch chance. It's just an overall great boost for physical Water-types like Gyarados, imho.
 
#9
What if Defiant worked if you dropped the stats of your partner?

This may sound totally dumb but Tail Whip would actually be a pretty great support move and since so many pokemon can learn it frail threats would become more popular since they wouldn't mind having their defense lowered. Pokemon such as Registeel and Tentacruel would also become popular thanks to their ability Clear Body basically buying their team a free turn whilst the opponent uses defog/tail whip/whatever twice to get the +2 boost and possibly more. Since many of the pokemon who get Defiant are dark type this is something that would actually hurt Cresselia -- yes, it can happen.

What if Waterfall was a Spread Move?

Dragon Dance Kingdra would become really popular, and would partner with Amoonguss really well thanks to his Rage Powder giving Kingdra a free turn of setup and then let hell unfold. Amoonguss also learns Rain Dance himself to set up the swift swim meaning that Kingdra could get really annoying with the flinching. There aren't that many good users of Waterfall unfortunately with the only ones viable in doubles being swift swimmers -- Kingdra, Carracosta and Kabutops -- so I can't see this effecting the meta-game that much.
 
#10
Blastoise didn't have its Dream World illegalities?

This would make Blastoise a complete pest in RainRoom, redirecting Taunt and harmful attacks from the Trick Room setter with Follow Me, than spamming Water Spout if it had enough HP remaining, all while recovering 6.25% health per turn. While it wouldn't be a top threat, this would certainly give it potential, as well as a useful niche.
Let's see what tricks come in that bag...
Rain Dish
Fake Out
Icy Wind
Aqua Jet
Mirror Coat
Water Spout
Follow Me
It looks like Rain would finally have a defensive fakeout user. Perhaps a physical set is possible with: Fake Out, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Protect?
 
#12
Let's see what tricks come in that bag...
Rain Dish
Fake Out
Icy Wind
Aqua Jet
Mirror Coat
Water Spout
Follow Me
It looks like Rain would finally have a defensive fakeout user. Perhaps a physical set is possible with: Fake Out, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Protect?
Move over Tentacruel...

But honestly, if Blastoise did lose its illegalities with its DW ability, it would be like a Water-type Togekiss, which is actually pretty handy. It's also got 79/100/105 bulk vs Togekiss coming in at 85/95/115, so the stats are comparable defensively, however, Togekiss only has its excellent 120 base SpA with 80 base speed, whereas Blastoise comes in at 85 speed and mid-high 80s in both attack types, making a Physical set viable.

It would be an excellent Scizor/Rain check in Sand I think, able to redirect Bullet Punch, although it lacks Recovery and Gastrodon would generally be the more annoying option, but Follow Me is a great niche to have when you at least resist Waterfall and Surf and can get Double Lefties recovery in rain.
 
#13
What if Hariyama had Final Gambit?

This thing would be the most awesome Trick Room lead ever. It's a role it already fills pretty well, but no longer can it be cockblocked by Cresselia, who currently takes miserable damage even from Hariyama's Close Combat - instead it is OHKO'd even after a turn of Toxic Orb damage. There are loads of Trick Room teams who would kill for something other than Escavalier to take care of the floating duck (plus, Final Gambit would not be nerfed by intimidate, which is a pain for every other TR-specialising physical attacker).
 
#14
What if Hariyama had Final Gambit?
This would be really cool imo. Obviously Protect and ghost types would be a huge worry and would mean you have to be wary when using it, but, it is a great move with the capacity to easily take out a significant threat to your team even if you have no real dedicated counter. Final gambitt is also really good for momentum in TR as you can use it on the last turn and get a free switch into your TR setter meaning it is more likely to get it back up.

What if Genesect got Baton Pass?
 
#15
Genesect with Baton Pass is a scary thought, as it gets Shift Gear from the newest event, which is by far and away something the every Physically based mon without DDance (and some even with DDance like TTar) wish they had. Being able to pass 3 stat boosts is something only things like Venomoth can do with QDPass, and that is only for Specially based threats.

It's kinda like Volcarona getting Pass tbh, or anything that can Smash Pass, but these are good Pokemon making other good Pokemon even better.

Shift Gear passing to Choice Band Terrakion for instance.

GG

What if Tailwind went up to 4 turns after use just like Trick Room and they both had items like Heat Rock to extend the turns to 8 total vs 5 total?
 

Pocket

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#16
BLOOD TOTEM said:
What if Genesect got Baton Pass?
It doesn't even need to be a Shift Gear Genesect to do work with Baton Pass - Genesect can pass its DL boosts to Pokemon like Terrakion and Kingdra to transform them into a frightening sweeper. Genesect would probably be the only Doubles mon to use Baton Pass to deadly effect, and the move will certainly transform Genesect into a mean offensive supporter. Even a Scarf set can use Baton Pass to quickly go to the recipient in the face of faster threats like Volcarona. With this newfound niche, its usage will drastically increase, imo.
noobcubed said:
What if Hariyama had Final Gambit?
Interesting idea. Final Gambit would certainly make an amazing use of Hariyama's colossal base 144 HP. With only 60 EVs in HP, it can take out a Cresselia! The move is counterproductive to Hariyama's main Status Orb set, though, since these status conditions would whittle down Hariyama's health and thereby reducing Final Gambit's power. Hariyama also loses out on important coverage in either Ice Punch (for Landorus-T) or Rock Slide / Stone Edge (for Chandelure), so it seems hard to fit on Hariyama's main set. Since Hariyama is an effective TR Sweeper on its own, it also does seem a waste to sacrifice it with Final Gambit. Also, Final Gambit is a super-risky move. Removing a Pokemon like Cresselia that would otherwise burn your TR turns is certainly worth the risk, though.
BlankZero said:
What if Tailwind went up to 4 turns after use just like Trick Room and they both had items like Heat Rock to extend the turns to 8 total vs 5 total?
I'm pretty sure this would never happen, since Game Freak probably knows how OP that would be. However, if this does happen, dedicated Trick Room and Tailwind teams would most likely increase in efficiency and usage. Stopping Trick Room in particular would be more important than now. It may end up where every team must run Trick Room just to negate opponent's Trick Room / flip Tailwind's speed advantage on its head.

What if Freeze Shock was like Giga Impact, where it has a turn of recharge instead of a turn to charge? Would Freeze Shock see more use on Kyurem-B than it sees now?
 
#17
What if Tailwind went up to 4 turns after use just like Trick Room and they both had items like Heat Rock to extend the turns to 8 total vs 5 total?

8 Turns of Twind is a terrifying though plenty of strong offensive Pokemon with middling speed suddenly get a huge boost allowing them to easily take on threats that would normally wipe them out. There would certainly be a rise in counter measures, Thundurus i would be a godsend thanks to priority Taunt and Thunderwave which cripples teams built around settup and speed. I think utility Cress would also see more use, access to TR is great as it would counter both the, now longer, Tailwind and opposing Trick Rooms.
Extra TR turns means it's way harder to stall out with just Fake Out and Protect so you would have to have a real counter to it. It would surely become a lot more powerful and we'd see the main abusers rise in usage as well as counters such as thundurus i and cress. Some teams may even want to run a slow attacker or there own to benefit from the opponents TR.

What if Freeze Shock was like Giga Impact?

I honestly don't think it'd see more usage. It's only really good when you're happy to sack kyurem in return for a free switch or against one of your opponents last mons. Ice Beam takes out tons of threats anyway despite the fact it doesn't benefit from Kyu-bs gargantuan physical attack stat. I think a Power Herb set has more worth than having a recharge turn at any rate.



What if Eject Button worked more than once in a battle?


IMO this would be a really cool change to the meta. It becomes a great way to get double intimidates in while only switching one Pokemon off the field. For example you can switch in top on the predicted move then switch into Landog after the button activates to half the opponents attack in a single play.
 
#18
What if Hariyama had Final Gambit?

This thing would be the most awesome Trick Room lead ever. It's a role it already fills pretty well, but no longer can it be cockblocked by Cresselia, who currently takes miserable damage even from Hariyama's Close Combat - instead it is OHKO'd even after a turn of Toxic Orb damage. There are loads of Trick Room teams who would kill for something other than Escavalier to take care of the floating duck (plus, Final Gambit would not be nerfed by intimidate, which is a pain for every other TR-specialising physical attacker).
Wow. Hariyama has a base 144 HP. That is 492 HP when fully invested, a free OHKO on ANY common Pokemon in Doubles besides the blobs and Ghost-types. Pair it with Amoonguss at the start of the match, Fake Out one Poke, Spore the other, then Final Gambit the awake Pokemon and you're essentially 5-4.

It seems as if Sun teams are underpowered because Sandstorm has two inducers and rain has DrizzleSwim, so perhaps the metagame would be more balanced if Sun had a second setter (that is arguably better than Ninetales):

What if Cacturne got Drought?

Hey, it's a cactus. It spends day after day in sun. It basically doesn't exist in Double because SpikeStacking is an unfavorable strategy in Doubles and its only niches over other Grass-types is a low speed (for Trick Room) and Sucker Punch. Otherwise I'd use Venusaur, Leafeon, Lilligant...even Torterra (not too good in doubles IMO). Maybe even Parasect.

Anyway, Drought Cacturne would be a major boost to sun teams because they have more versatility with a second option for auto-sun. Unlike Ninetales, Cacturne resists the main STAB of most Rain sweepers (sadly Water Absorb is gone here) and can force them out with the threat of STAB Seed Bomb/Giga Drain. Its low speed lets it try to sweep on a TrickSun team once Politoed/Tyranitar/Hippowodon are gone, and it also has recovery in Drain Punch (Drain Punch + Water Absorb is illegal right?). Its low speed is also compensated for by STAB Sucker Punch, letting Cacturne pick off weakened Ludicolo and Thundurus-T before it dies, and Base 115 attacking stats are very helpful in such an offensive metagame.

But now let's focus on what Cacturne can do for its teammates. It is easier to do Charizard sweeps because it has much better synergy with Cacturne than with Ninetales (no common weaknesses, and Cacturne resists two of Charizard's three weaknesses, while Charizard resists half of Cacturne's weaknesses). Chlorophyll sweepers can go rampant more easily when Cacturne picks off fast threats and opposing weather inducers. All in all, the weather war would be more balanced. Gamefreak decides to give sun to Ninetales and sand to Tyranitar--that's pretty uneven, especially when Hippowodon also has Sand Stream.
 
#19
What if Tyranitar got Sucker Punch?

This is one of those "obviously this move would be really good on this Pokemon" combos (like how Trollfreak deny us Gyro Ball Escavalier and instead give it to Starmie, who also gets Trick Room and Analytic). Anyway, enough moaning...

Well first, we would really have no more reasons to use Scarf Tyranitar. T-tar can now happily plough aside the likes of Latios and Chandelure before being smacked with Draco Meteor/Energy Ball (as great as its special bulk is, those would still hurt). Probably would result in a decrease of Latios usage, or stuff like Sub Latios. Maybe Bisharp would wane too, as now half of its niche is gone (which is basically just Defiant + Sucker Punch, let's face it this thing is a real one-trick pony).
 
#20
What if Tyranitar got Sucker Punch?

This is one of those "obviously this move would be really good on this Pokemon" combos (like how Trollfreak deny us Gyro Ball Escavalier and instead give it to Starmie, who also gets Trick Room and Analytic). Anyway, enough moaning...

Well first, we would really have no more reasons to use Scarf Tyranitar. T-tar can now happily plough aside the likes of Latios and Chandelure before being smacked with Draco Meteor/Energy Ball (as great as its special bulk is, those would still hurt). Probably would result in a decrease of Latios usage, or stuff like Sub Latios. Maybe Bisharp would wane too, as now half of its niche is gone (which is basically just Defiant + Sucker Punch, let's face it this thing is a real one-trick pony).
Honestly, I'd think Tyranitar would still prefer Crunch most of the time, since it can hit Trick Room setters. Still, it could be useful against things like Deoxys, I suppose. Scarf would still be a very legitimate set, too, allowing Tyranitar to reliably take out Latios, Tornadus, and the likes, where Sucker Punch would involve out-predicting, and I for one have always enjoyed keeping plays pretty straightfoward. However, Sucker Punch would certainly have an effect on the metagame. For starters, Taunt Tyranitar would see more use, as Taunt can shut down Trick Room and allow for ease w/ Sucker Punch. The possibility of Sucker Punch would also lead a lot of Psychic attackers to play more cautiously, in fear of it. I would definitely agree that Substitute Latios would see a lot of use. Overall, I would judge that Crunch would still be the more common choice, but the possibility of Sucker Punch would definitely make Tyranitar a lot harder to work around, as no one is going to be recklessly spamming Draco Meteors with Latios until they know whether if it has Sucker Punch. (Oh and btw, Bisharp would not be outclassed at all, Defiant is great, and having a 80bp STAB priority attack without fearing Intimidate is something that nothing else could do.



Anyway, I was just hanging around the other day when an interesting thought crossed my mind, and I thought it was worth a mention. As all informed trainers are currently aware, X&Y will feature new training methods such as Super Training. The thought that crossed my mind was "What if they made training that could literally alter base stats?"

So, in true theorymon style, let us suppose they did, and you could essential gain 10 points to your BST max, distributed however you liked in the stats of a given pokemon. This would essentially make the metagame even more diverse, speed tiers would become true insanity, and overall we would have some insane options. For example, that bulky Thundurus could be even bulkier with a 10 point increase in HP, 89/70/80 defenses would allow it to tank more hits, or you could go all out in Special Defense, with 79/70/90 defenses. While this may just seem like it would be offset by the fact Tyranitar will be running 10 points in attack, and Hydreigon 10 in special attack, the possibilities would certainly be there, and it would certainly make the metagame far more complicated then it already is.
 
#21
What if Recycle could target allies? (in addition to the user)

Before the possibilities of what items could even be abused, distribution of the move needs to be addressed. It turns out quite a few Pokemon already showing results in doubles can learn the move, such as Cresselia, Genesect, Slowbro, Bronzong, and Porygon2. All but Genesect are typically ran as bulky and would certainly have time to use the move, with Cresselia and Bronzong most easily fitting it on their sets.

In-a-pinch berries and gems would benefit from this change a lot, both of which see nice usage in doubles. For example, being able to recycle your ally's sitrus berry would give them a lot of extra bulk. Of course, recycling gems would allow for a lot of powerful hits, but what about activating a non health-based berry twice in a turn, such as salac or petaya? Tailwind is already popular in doubles, but perhaps there would be some clever usages for these berries.

Hopefully I'm not missing any already existing mechanics with how recycle works on consumed items.
 
#22
What if Recycle could target allies? (in addition to the user)

Before the possibilities of what items could even be abused, distribution of the move needs to be addressed. It turns out quite a few Pokemon already showing results in doubles can learn the move, such as Cresselia, Genesect, Slowbro, Bronzong, and Porygon2. All but Genesect are typically ran as bulky and would certainly have time to use the move, with Cresselia and Bronzong most easily fitting it on their sets.

In-a-pinch berries and gems would benefit from this change a lot, both of which see nice usage in doubles. For example, being able to recycle your ally's sitrus berry would give them a lot of extra bulk. Of course, recycling gems would allow for a lot of powerful hits, but what about activating a non health-based berry twice in a turn, such as salac or petaya? Tailwind is already popular in doubles, but perhaps there would be some clever usages for these berries.

Hopefully I'm not missing any already existing mechanics with how recycle works on consumed items.
I think using that form of Recycle could read to really fun things like...

Restoring Sitrus Berry/Mental Herb/Power Herb on a Pokemon that would love to us eit again, like Amoongus, Dusknoir or even Freeze Shock KyuB (!)
 
#23
What if Hurricane was a spread move?
I literally have no clue why Hurricane isn't a spread move. Competitively, rain would be stronger as Tornadus could target both opponents at the same time.
 
#24
I feel it might be a little bit too haxy with the 30% confusion chance on both opponents every hit, and it would lose out on that 120 BP.

With the new MegaLutions revealed, how do you think Drought MegaCharizard will fare vs Ninetales?
 
#25
Woah, we have no idea what generation VI will bring, that will open a whole new can of worms. For all we know these MegaLutions might not be worth it (especially since the transformation happens in battle, ie some kind of set-up is involved, and set-up is rare in doubles at the moment).
 

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