Metagame Doubles Ubers


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Welcome to Doubles Ubers, where beasts like Zacian-Crowned roam wild! Like all official Smogon tiers, Doubles Ubers is restricted to Pokemon that are currently obtainable in Sword & Shield. This isn't National Dex, so you'll have to wait until DLC is released if you're looking to Dynamax your Arceus in Doubles.

Doubles Ubers is a 6v6 doubles format with no Pokemon banned. Otherwise, it mirrors most clauses from Doubles OU, such as Species Clause and Evasion Clause (notably, you are allowed to Dynamax, and Gravity Sleep clause is not present). You can play DUbers on Pokemon Showdown, usually through the Doubles Ubers ladder. You can also ask for challenges in the Smogon Doubles room for battles with experienced players. Feel free to discuss DUbers in this thread, the Smogon Doubles room, or the #dubers channel on the Doubles Discord.

Bring 6 Pokemon, Doubles. Team Preview on. Players can only use Pokemon obtainable in Pokemon Sword & Shield.

  • Endless Battle Clause: Anything capable of intentionally creating an endless battle is banned.
  • Evasion Moves Clause: Players cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize.
  • OHKO Clause: Players cannot use the moves Horn Drill, Guillotine, Sheer Cold, or Fissure.
  • Species Clause: Players cannot use two Pokemon with the same Pokedex number on the same team.

Sample Teams (click the six Pokemon to view Showdown importable)
:zacian-crowned: / :lunala: / :incineroar: / :necrozma-dusk-mane: / :indeedee-f: / :reshiram: - DaWoblefet's Dusk Mane Zacian Semiroom
:zacian-crowned: / :solgaleo: / :necrozma-dusk-mane: / :hitmontop: / :reshiram: / :rotom-heat: - Yellow Paint's Double Lion Double Weakness Policy + Sucker Punch
:Lunala: / :dusclops: / :Indeedee-F: / :Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: / :Incineroar: / :Tyranitar: - KyleCole's Triple Weakness Policy hard Trick Room

Viability Rankings
Doubles Ubers is a relatively young metagame, so take the rankings here as provisional. Initial tiering by DaWoblefet and Yellow Paint. Within tiers, Pokemon are ordered alphabetically.

>>Tier 1<<
Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon.
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
:lunala: Lunala
:magearna: Magearna
:zacian-crowned: Zacian-Crowned

>>Tier 2<<
Pokemon that are generally strong and can easily be placed on a variety of teams, but don't have the same level of prowess as the threats in Tier 1.
:blastoise: Blastoise
:incineroar: Incineroar
:indeedee-f: Indeedee-F
:marshadow: Marshadow
:mew: Mew
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:reshiram: Reshiram
:solgaleo: Solgaleo
:zekrom: Zekrom

>>Tier 3<<
Pokemon that are generally strong, but less powerful than those in Tier 2 or Pokemon that require a decent amount of support or a specific team style to function well, but are defining pieces to said archetypes.
:charizard: Charizard
:eternatus: Eternatus
:Gyarados: Gyarados
:jirachi: Jirachi
:kyurem-white: Kyurem-White
:milotic: Milotic
:necrozma-dawn-wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
:rotom-heat: Rotom-H
:torkoal: Torkoal

>>Tier 4<<
This tier contains either Pokemon that have broad applications on a variety of teams, but are simply less effective than those in higher tiers, or are only particularly useful for certain team styles.
:dusclops: Dusclops
:ditto: Ditto
:dracovish: Dracovish
:excadrill: Excadrill
:gastrodon: Gastrodon
:gothitelle: Gothitelle
:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:hitmontop: Hitmontop
:rhyperior: Rhyperior
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:venusaur: Venusaur
:whimsicott: Whimsicott
:zamazenta: Zamazenta
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My initial observation is that speed control more generally, and Trick Room in particular, is very strong, especially as Pokemon like Torkoal, Rhyperior and Dusk Mane Necrozma have great options for hitting basically every other Pokemon in the format very hard, given the abundance of steel types and fire types. Very few things resist ground moves in this format, and those that do don't tend to also resist fire moves.

Trick Room setups are well supported by Dusclops and Indeedee-Female in particular.

Lunala is strong as always due to its typing and utility moves. It along with Reshiram and Solgaleo fit well into teams with a tailwind or mixed TR setup for providing strong general offense.

Weakness Policy and Dynamax is absurd when put on Legendary Pokemon, and really allow big snowballs to happen. Solgaleo and Dusk Mane Necrozma are great at snowballing due to their typing and good movepool, where ground and steel moves can augment their defences while Weakness Policy boosts their offense, while others like Mewtwo, Reshiram and Lunala just try to break through opposing resources while Dynamaxed using overwhelming power.

I haven't used Eternatus or Zacian yet, but it seems like they need good support for maximum value - probably best kept for sealing up games late with their speed and offenses in neutral or favourable speed control. Their signature moves don't hit dynamax steel types very hard which is a bummer.

Getting the right non-legends to support your legendary Pokemon seems to be important in this format given the dex restrictions, which makes it more GS cup style than previous generations of DUbers.

Here are some teams I've made and done well with so far

Sun Hard TR with Dusk Mane Necrozma snowballs

Fling Salac Berry Solgaleo shenanigans and friends:
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This is a fun team I used to win a recent Dubers Room Tour. Full TR is just as fun to use/awful to play against as in DOU, and I figure if dubers players start building teams to counter this one, then that's fine by me.
The team functions as you can probably guess, lead indeedee/incineroar + best TR setter and get the room up. Once TR is active you can start beating away with the setter, or bulldoze and activate a WP.
I have also used scarf butterfree > Indeedee with this team. Butterfree makes Lunala less threatening as a lead and opens up the team to getting Fake Out'd by opposing Incineroar, but doesn't conflict with your own Incineroar Fake Out and threatens sleep!
Heyo this is the team I used to peak #1 on the Doubles Ubers ladder and I just wanted to share it with y’all.

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spirit Break
- Thunder Wave
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Trick Room

Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Protect

Lunala @ Kasib Berry
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Moonblast
- Trick Room
- Protect

Marshadow @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 8 HP / 172 Atk / 76 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Brick Break
- Shadow Sneak

Milotic @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 4 SpD / 80 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Muddy Water
- Hypnosis
- Coil
- Recover
I built this team through a lot of trial and error but eventually settled on these six, then tweaked the sets until I was satisfied. Grimmsnarl provides screen support and speed control to the rest of the team, which is greatly appreciated. When you pair screens with the team's natural bulk and busted Dynamax moves, it can often give you an insurmountable advantage over your opponent. Necrozma's role is to take big hits then hit back harder, which it does really well with screens, Prism Armor, and Max Moves. Zacian-C is the best Pokemon in the tier, there's really no reason not to use it unless you're running full room. Lunala checks opposing Necrozma, Lunala, and Trick Room teams. Marshadow is great revenge killer and checks Necrozma, Lunala, and even opposing Marshadow. Milotic rounds out the team by deterring supportive Fire-types like Incineroar and Arcanine, who otherwise give the team a lot of trouble.

I played around with the sets a ton but settled on these which I think are pretty sick actually. Grimmsnarl is fairly straight forward, but I'm using Spirit Break over a Dark-type move like Foul Play or Sucker Punch to allow Necrozma to more easily beat Special Attackers like Reshiram and Lunala. While I tried a bunch of really cool sets on Necrozma like Calm Mind, DD, and even Trick Room + Imprison, I settled on 3 Attacks cause it gives you great coverage and even better Max Moves. Seriously Max Steel and Max Ground are just dumb, especially if your opponent activates your Weakness Policy you can kinda just steam roll them. The EVs out speed paralyzed Zacian-C then they're dumped into Attack and HP. Speaking of Zacian, I'm running Close Combat over something like Play Rough so I can hit Incineroar hard, which is a big threat to the team. Lunala is Kasib Berry to give it an easier time versus opposing Lunala and Marshadow. Moonblast hits Dark-types that otherwise beat Lunala, and though Trick Room seems like an odd choice on such a fast team, it's necessary to check opposing Trick Room teams. Basically there's so many great Trick Room setters and supportive Pokemon in DUbers that it's difficult to prepare for them all, so my typical game plan is to just reverse their Trick Room then beat them from there. The Marshadow set is really sick, and I'm super proud of it. Here are the calcs:

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 8 HP / 76 Def Marshadow: 273-322 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
172 Atk Choice Band Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 324-384 (100.9 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Basically it gives you the best shot at beating opposing Marshadow 1 on 1, even though there may be speed ties. Finally Milotic's set is kinda disgusting but Hypnosis forces your opponent to either deal with it or risk being put to sleep. It's also great for burning Dynamax turns. The EVs let it out speed Zacian-C at +2, then I couldn't really figure out significant defensive benchmarks so I just gave it mixed bulk and called it a day.

I got some nominations for the VR
-> 1
Necrozma is the best Dynamax user in the tier. It's got great natural bulk and an amazing ability in Prism armor, which lets it (ab)use Weakness Policy better than any Pokemon. Its max moves are dumb, and it is also extremely versatile, being able to run physical or special sets. It can even play a more supportive role, with access to Trick Room, Ally Switch, and Moonlight. It's one of the few things that can kinda reliably check Zacian too.
-> 2
Priority screens and Thunder Wave are real good. It can also do shenanigans with Fake Out and Fake Tears.
-> 3 / Unranked
It's a worse Necrozma without Prism Armor.

That's all, thanks!
How's Eternatus doing at countering D-Max? I suppose the other Legendaries have similar moves to Eternatus as far as dealing extra damage is concerned.

Lord Death Man

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I have some mild thoughts - I think the ladder in it's current state makes it hard to judge things, but I think there's some stand outs. I thought w/the DOU dmax ban that dubers might see a brief uptick in play so I thought I'd make some comments.

Dusk-Mane 2 > 1. Broken mon.

Solgaleo 2 > 3. Pretty obvious; Dusk-Mane, Zacian, and Jirachi share too much with it for it to be particularly good, though I do think the intimidate / dmax stat drop immunity is pretty useful and can serve it pretty well as a choice mon, alongside the actually good speed tier.

Kyurem-White 2 > 3. Reshiram is good somehow and Kyurem-White ends up much worse off because of it. Not much else to say.

Zamazenta-Crowned 2 > 3. Same issue as Solgaleo. Speed tier is a good but everything has coverage for steels and it doesn't hit hard at all. I have additional comments on the non-crowned form and they all apply to this, except this form is also slower than Mewtwo and has Ground/Fire weaknesses.

Some general comments.
Zamazenta (not crowned). Almost decent? It has a lot of things that make me think it could be useful and then it can't really leverage them. Faster than Mewtwo, has snarl, helping hand, wide guard, hits the only good intimdate mon SE, but otherwise it can't really leverage them into something that differentiates it super well from Marshadow. Lack of Roar and/or Body Press are killers. Not opposed to seeing someone inevitably make this work on the right team, its better than the Crowned form but that doesn't mean much. At the end of the day, it's still stronger and faster than Marshadow, just without the (defining) ghost stab, so I could totally see a life orb set being useful.

Marshadow. Only sash is really viable, but its super good at abusing all sorts of setup / weakness policy shenanigans, while also being good versus big threats like Jirachi / Lunala.

Zacian-Crowned. Stop running adamant, PLEASE. It's not worth it. I like sub + stabs best, but it just has great coverage in general.

Reshiram / Zekrom. These two being... good... feels wrong, but they've both found a niche in the current meta. Reshiram has a great stab combo and might actually be the only mon capable of OHKOing max hp Dusk-Mane. It also has an absurd stab combo, a good spread move, and tailwind. Zekrom, meanwhile, gained Dragon Dance, is stupidly strong, and seriously appreciates the bulk gain from dynamaxing.

Incineroar. I almost think this is tier 2? It's just so good in a physically oriented meta.

How's Eternatus doing at countering D-Max? I suppose the other Legendaries have similar moves to Eternatus as far as dealing extra damage is concerned.
Poorly I think - Eternatus can do some cool stuff because it has absurd bulk and speed, good power, and a nice typing, but Dynamax Cannon has the unfortunate downside of not really hitting too many notable dynamax abusers hard enough.


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Here's probably my best team so far - Dusk Mane Zacian semiroom:
:zacian-crowned: / :lunala: / :incineroar: / :necrozma-dusk-mane: / :indeedee-f: / :reshiram:

Reshiram + Indeedee can be used to nuke Zacian around Follow Me, and Indeedee can assist Necrozma both in setting up Trick Room and setting off the Weakness Policy for it. Incineroar is Shuca to actually let it switch in vs. Necrozma and underspeeds it in TR for a Parting Shot. You could opt for a more physically defensive spread of 252 HP / 220 Def to guarantee being able to switch in on Jolly Zacian's Behemoth Blade + CC, but the extra Sp. Def is nice to ensure you survive Timid Reshiram's Life Orb Max Dragon 100%. Dusk Mane cuts back on Attack for additional special bulk; my benchmark for offense was to ensure +1 Max Steelspike still KOed Zacian (not strictly necessary because of Max Ground, but situationally useful and the bulk is nice).

After a couple weeks of metagame development, I think some pretty interesting trends have popped up:
  • Teams are typically low on Fire and Ground resists. The best Pokemon in the tier, Zacian-Crowned and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, are both weak to it; literally no Uber is off the Ground or Levitating, and few resist Fire. Pokemon like Torkoal or Rhyperior, which would be unheard of in previous DUbers, suddenly have a lot more viability just because they can hit a ton of Pokemon.
  • Jirachi sucks. It offers very little support with Follow Me redirection, since it's weak to Reshiram, Lunala, all the tech Dark and Ground-type moves, and Incineroar. Indeedee-F is by far the superior Follow Me user, boasting additional utility in anti-Fake Out with Psychic Terrain, the ability to wall Lunala utterly, and Helping Hand to boost the effectiveness of Zacian or other beasts.
  • Zacian is good, but it's not everything. It has warped the tier into respecting it significantly; you quite simply cannot Dynamax a Pokemon that doesn't resist Behemoth Blade with a clear conscience. However, beyond that, Zacian can have trouble pressuring OHKOs against a lot of the tier. It's much stronger as a lategame sweeper, similar to Marshadow from Gen 7 Doubles OU imo.
    • Zacian's main problem is it's very linear. You have whatever you want in terms of coverage, but you can't have everything. A lack of Crunch means being unable to seriously pressure Lunala, not having Close Combat means you don't trade favorably with Incineroar, and not having Play Rough makes you weak to Reshiram/Zekrom and things like Water-types. In addition, dropping a coverage move for Sub or Swords Dance feels really hard. Behemoth Blade is the only thing you definitely use; even Protect can be foregone on some compositions.
    • I'm on the Jolly > Adamant train too. Adamant is very appealing for the numbers (you still outspeed Mewtwo and Eternatus, gain extra damage), but the Speed tie matters and being able to force mons to reach a standard for what to outspeed matters too.
  • I think Stealth Rock is probably really good in this tier. Chipping the Fire-types, breaking Lunala's Shadow Shield, and removing Sash from mons like Marshadow are really valuable tools; the problem is that the only viable rockers are Dusk Mane (which is typically WP and wants the coverage) or Mew.
  • Sun is very good as an archetype. While I haven't seen it done yet, I think something like Torkoal / Venusaur / Charizard / Zacian / Reshiram +1 for Fire spam stack could be very potent.
  • Dusk Mane may be better than Zacian. You simply cannot kill it after Dynamax, and if you hit it with a super effective move it gets WP and then it's over. Unlike last gen, where Incineroar trolled it out of viability, now you have Max Quake which is pretty phenomenal at deleting Incineroar. Being able to boost your defenses further is great, AND you have the option to Trick Room OR Dragon Dance. Sunsteel / EQ are mandatory, with a Speed control move of choice and a coverage move or Protect; I prefer Knock for Lunala and its utility pre-Dynamax.
  • Incineroar should be running physically defensive spreads here. No Xerneas is around, but there's plenty of dangerous physical attackers that an Impish Nature and lots of EVs will appreciate. I think investing enough to live stuff like Reshiram's LO Max Dragon is fine, but you really want the physical defense in this tier.
  • There's still plenty left to explore. I suspect a strong Dragon Dance Zekrom or Dusk Mane team will pop up in due time, same with sun Fire spam. Semiroom or hard Trick Room seem to be the most popular strategies initially.
I hope to add additional sample teams to the OP and rework the VR this month!


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VR updates!

Now that the metagame has had about a month to settle itself, there's more room for clearly defined tiers. As a result, we now have a tier 4! I've enlisted the help of Yellow Paint to assist in the initial VR revisions, but please feel free to nominate suggestions to the viability rankings; we're still very early in the DUbers' metagame.

Changes to tier 1:
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane (2 -> 1)
The Weakness Policy set has shown to be metagame-defining; both Sunsteel Strike and Earthquake provide great coverage and defense boosts as max moves, and it functions well both in Trick Room and as an independent attacker with Dragon Dance.
:lunala: Lunala (2 -> 1)
Lunala has many similar traits to Dusk Mane, with a plethora of power and the ability to function well in and out of Trick Room. It can do Weakness Policy in tandem with its absurd bulk from Shadow Shield, run Calm Mind as an alternative means of setting up, or run Colbur Berry to nearly guarantee a Trick Room.

Changes to tier 2:
:blastoise: Blastoise (UR -> 2)
Blastoise boasts a unique role in being both a Steel and Fire-type resistance with Follow Me and Fake Out, two very useful moves to support other Ubers. Yawn is great at forcing difficult choices with opposing Dynamax, and it gets additional phenomenal support moves in Haze and Life Dew. While more niche, a Shell Smash Water Spout set can also be decent, as few Pokemon resists Water in the tier.
:indeedee-f: Indeedee-F (3 -> 2)
Indeedee walls Lunala completely with Follow Me, which is a huge deal. Psychic Terrain blocks Fake Out and other priority attacks, and is unlikely to be reset without an unusual choice in Dynamaxed attacks. It's a great assist for setting Trick Room and Helping Hand.

Changes to tier 3:
:eternatus: Eternatus (2 -> 3)
Dynamax Cannon doesn't hit for impressive damage on most non-Dragon Dynamax targets. It carries a lot of shared weaknesses without a lot of independent strengths. Its moves simply aren't strong enough. Its speed is still impressive, though, and it can trade with a good number of Pokemon in the tiers above it.
:Gyarados: Gyarados (UR -> 3)
Gyarados would be significantly better if it could outspeed Zacian at +1; still, it resists Behemoth Blade, so it can be a potent Dynamax sweeper with a set of Waterfall / Bounce / Earthquake / Dragon Dance. If Gyarados snowballs and gives threatening allies Speed boosts with Max Bounce, the game can be all but over.
:jirachi: Jirachi (2 -> 3)
Being weak to both Fire- and Ghost-type attacks leaves Jirachi open to a lot of shared weaknesses with partners it's trying to redirect attacks away from. Tons of Pokemon threaten it, and both Blastoise and Indeedee offer similar roles with Follow Me with better typings for most team compositions.
:kyurem-white: Kyurem-White (2 -> 3)
Very, very strong, but tends to be Dynamax-reliant and that is not good when Dusk Mane and Zacian are running around. Requires Tailwind and frankly Dynamax to be effective.
:milotic: Milotic (UR -> 3)
Similar to Blastoise in being able to sleep Steel-types effectively, this time with Coil + Hypnosis. Its damage is very underwhelming, but it does also discourage Incineroar from switching in frequently. Teams without powerful special attackers will have trouble breaking Milotic if it can get going.

Tier 4:
The following Pokemon were moved down from tier 3 to more appropriately represent their power level:
:zamazenta: Zamazenta (3 -> 4)
:whimsicott: Whimsicott (3 -> 4)
:rhyperior: Rhyperior (3 -> 4)
:gothitelle: Gothitelle (3 -> 4)
:tyranitar: Tyranitar (3 -> 4)
:venusaur: Venusaur (3 -> 4)
:dusclops: Dusclops (3 -> 4)
:ditto: Ditto (3 -> 4)
:excadrill: Excadrill (3 -> 4)

New additions:
:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl (UR -> 4)
Grimmsnarl can set up screens quickly to reduce the impact of the opponent's damage quickly. However, its usefulness ends beyond screens if the opponent has Indeedee, and it must choose between 8 turn screens with Light Clay and surviving an attack from a Steel-type with a Focus Sash.
:dracovish: Dracovish (UR -> 4)
There are few good Water-type resists in the tier, and with Speed control, Dracovish can pressure lots of damage on various targets. Choice Scarf Dracovish fails to outpace Zacian, and it's not quite slow enough to do Trick Room things, but if it can whack Dusk Mane with a boosted Fishious Rend, it will hurt.
:hitmontop: Hitmontop (UR -> 4)
Hitmontop is a fair alternative to Incineroar, boasting Sucker Punch for ease of triggering an ally's Weakness Policy, as well as Wide Guard to handle any Heat Wave being thrown in the way of Zacian and co.
:gastrodon: Gastrodon (UR -> 4)
Very few Pokemon resist Ground in the tier, and after a Stockpile, Gastrodon can potentially be difficult to KO, spreading Yawn to further annoy the opponent.

Pokemon that have been dropped to UR:
:zamazenta-crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned
It tries to be a happy medium between regular Zamazenta and Zacian-Crowned and fails miserably at both.
:dragapult: Dragapult
Marshadow is a better fast Ghost and doesn't rely on Dynamax to be effective.
:jellicent: Jellicent
Awful. I initially thought this could be OK as a TR setter that could spread Will-o-Wisp and Strength Sap but yeah it's awful.
:lapras: Lapras
If you want screens that badly, use regular Zamazenta or Grimmsnarl. Using up your Dynamax for a very weak Pokemon offensively by DUbers standards is hard to justify.
:kyurem-black: Kyurem-B
Dragon Dance and Icicle Spear don't change the fact that this mon gets completely bodied by the Steel-types. Awful.
:melmetal: Melmetal
Much better Steel-types are available.
:terrakion: Terrakion
Beat Up cheese is very dangerous in a metagame with Sash Marshadow; if it doesn't get Beat Up (with the wide selection of Follow Me users in the tier, very possible) it is utterly demolished by the majority of the tier, including but not limited to the Steel-types.
:togekiss: Togekiss
Fairy-type redirection doesn't really help when the attacks you're redirecting are Behemoth Blade and Sunsteel Strike. Does nothing Blastoise can't do, since you're definitely not maxing Togekiss here.
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I'd like to nominate Snorlax for tier 4.


While it requires a reasonable amount of support, but the belly drum set in particular is very threatening when set up, and indeedee/blastoise/Incineroar are easy to fit in supporters. GMax Lax is hard to KO (especially when paired with debuffs like intimidate), and with enough coverage options for the whole tier (notably ground and dark), it demands a response when it is out. Of course, when your opponent focuses on snorlax, that can free up room for your other slot to exert its own offensive pressure with which to overwhelm opponents, especially if you've used up your follow me support.

Thick Fat also allows it to match up better against the format's fire types, so it has that option as well as gluttony pinch berry.

Mewtwo Uranium

Banned deucer.


Deleted nominance for Eldegoss

Im gonna test this and when I get some results I'll get back to ya
Sorry I forgot the replays.
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Lord Death Man

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I've been playing this meta again because the ladder is active when the DUU ladder isn't and I have a few thoughts on the VR. I don't feel comfortable sharing most of my sample teams because they're honestly a let down, but I will say I have either Substitute or Agility Magearna on every team.

Tier 1
Magearna should obviously be here, and I just don't quite think Lunala is on the same level as the other 3 Tier 1s; it's not bad at all, and is in fact probably even better than it was before thanks to Expanding Force and maybe Meteor Beam (which is meh but lets it delete Incineroar, essentially its only hard counter), but it's really hard to say Lunala is on the same level as the others. My only apprehension with this is that Lunala would be far and away the best thing in 2, only really competing with Reshiram, which brings me to...

Tier 2
Reshiram stands out as being leagues above the others, but is worse than Tier 1. Marshadow, Mew, Incineroar, and Blastoise all make up what I'd consider the other "top" Tier 2 mons, and then Zekrom, Mewtwo, Indeedee-F, and Solgaleo are all much more niche picks. I really think Mewtwo and Zekrom should drop; they're not bad per se, but Nasty Plot Mewtwo and Dragon Dance Zekrom are not on the same level as mons who are good out of the gate, and while Mewtwo has legitimate merits on Psyspam, Psyspam doesn't always need a third attacker.

I have no real thoughts on Solgaleo. It seems fine but Necrozma Dusk-Mane is right there so it's hard to fit on teams.

Tier 3
This tier feels kind of wonky but I just don't know what could possibly fix it bc of how the meta is. The meta is so centered on the Tier 1 threats that I truly don't think it matters at all what is floating around in here. I do feel Whimsicott should probably be here; Tailwind + Memento + Magearna is incredibly powerful, and also Tier 4 is pretty bad all things considered. If Mewtwo+Zekrom move here, it might be prudent to remove some of the mons in tier that haven't seen recent success. I think Necrozma Dawn Wing might need to be pushed down just because of the extreme opportunity cost of forgoing both Dusk Mane and Lunala. At the same time, it's still probably "better" than most of 4.

Tier 4
I think Pelipper and Kingdra merit spots here; Rain Cores have decent to good matchups versus Sun TR and Sun in general, which is, itself, ok on the merits of being anti-Tier 1/anti-meta, and Pelipper's access to Tailwind and Wide Guard feel a lot more useful than Politoed is. Kingdra is the best rain sweeper by far. I'm surprised that there's no webs setter, but I have no idea what one would even use (Ribombee with Speed Swap + Pollen Puff, probably?).

Few other thoughts; Rillaboom's access to Grassy Terrain seems rly useful, but Grass is an absolutely terrible offensive type. Urshifu Single-Strike with a Band has some legitimate uses but I feel apprehensive using it in a Magearna meta. Volcarona is very very hit or miss; half the meta is weak to fire and the other half doesn't care about anything Volcarona can do. Porygon2 probably deserves to be ranked on the same merits as Dusclops. Scizor has mostly the same good MUs, but even more bad ones.

tl;dr Nominations
Volcarona UR > 3 or 4 (no strong feelings either way)
Porygon2 UR > 3
Pelipper UR > 4
Kingdra UR > 4
Urshifu UR > 4
Mewtwo 2 > 3
Zekrom 2 > 3
Whimsicott 4 > 3

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