Down in Flames
https://pokepast.es/6b211cb047f61eea
So I've been having fun trying out ADV recently after I got a bit bored with modern gens. I rather like the creativity you can have in the teambuilder with the limited pokedex and the overall lower power level. I generally like to build more offensive teams, and in particular I wanted to build around one of my all-time favorite mons (who fortunately happens to be the undisputed king in this tier): Tyranitar.
I rather like the core of this team, but I also wanted to see if anyone had suggestions to improve it, as it feels a bit tricky to pilot sometimes.
Teambuilding Process
So in particular, one set I wanted to build around is DD Tar holding a Liechi Berry and using Double-Edge. The goal of this set is to break a lot of the bulky water types like Swampert that are often the dedicated Tyranitar check. Since many of the more defensively invested waters cannot actually OHKO Tyranitar, you can proc the berry quite consistently, especially when you can manipulate your HP with Double-Edge. A full HP defensive Pert is actually not safe against this set with Spikes up. I wanted to pair this with an Agility Metagross who I think is a very threatening sweeper that is unfortunately hard walled by these water types.
While Tar and Meta have a lot of bulk and are frequently checks to a variety of mons, they do not want to switch in repeatedly with these sets, so that already leads the team to more of a hyper offense style. Additionally, spikes are great to help them actually break through checks. There's not a lot of offensive spikers, and I feel like Smeargle is the only one that gets up multiple layers consistently. It has some serious weaknesses, but it's the best we've got imo. Of course, we also want a spinblocker in that case.
Lastly I filled out the team with additional threats to cover weaknesses in the team. Gyarados is a threatening sweeper that can abuse passive mons with Taunt, while Arcanine pressures steel types like Skarmory that are otherwise annoying, while not giving up momentum against Tyranitar. I'll go into a bit more detail below.
The Team
Smeargle @ Salac Berry
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 68 HP / 188 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Spore
- Explosion
- Substitute
Smeargle lives to do one thing and that is to get up layers. Of course it also puts things to sleep, but that's mostly to get free turns for layers. Salac and the EV spread are of course standard so you can Spike T1 against Offensive Zap and then Spore it the next turn if it attacked. In the last two slots I've found Explosion and Substitute the most consistent. Substitute gives a layer of protection against the unfortunate min roll sleeps that plague this mon, while also giving you a way of manipulating yourself into Salac range. Explosion does what it always does: get chip damage and deny turns.
Tyranitar @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
The King. I love this mon so much. I already detailed the set above, but it's honestly one of my favorite sets. Not many mons can just straight break through their presumed counters, but this guy can. Of course more offensively invested waters will still blast you, but they also take a ton more damage so after a +1 DEdge plus Spikes chip, they are no longer a check to Meta in many cases.
Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Agility
AgiliGross with Rock Slide is a threat and a half. You trade the ability to be a breaker with Boom to hit flyers that are often hard to remove, and frequently the only real switchin after the main line of defense (Skarm/Pert) is gone. It also has great defensive value to its base stats and typing, giving it many setup opportunities. I've decided to go for Lum since I've no real ways of dealing with status, and it can force out or give me more setup opportunities on things like Wisp Gar or Twave Zap.
Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 168 HP / 164 SpD / 176 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain
- Focus Punch
- Explosion
So with Spikes Offense, you kind of need a spinblocker, especially with Smeargle who won't set up multiple times. I wanted to go for Banette originally because I like its lines of play better, but the team is incredibly ground weak already and I wanted to be able to threaten Skarm a bit more directly. Looking into potential sets, I decided to go for a more defensive one because I cannot switch into many special attackers, so this gives me a onetime switchin and I can get some chip off. The Speed EVs are to outspeed things like Moltres/Charizard/Zapdos so I can chip them down or force them out. I wanted Tbol to pressure Skarm of course, Giga Drain to cover the double to Pursuit Tar a bit better, and then I decided on Focus Punch to both smack Tar on the switch, but also to chip Blissey and Snorlax who can otherwise take a hit from Tar/Meta and potentially stop a sweep. Explosion of course is still the nr.1 move for momentum.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake
- Taunt
As Gengar has the average lifespan of a mayfly, I wanted another ground immune. I also felt like Metagross was quite a threat and didn't have a great switch to Pert if it comes in on Meta. Gyarados fulfills a valuable defensive niche, especially with Intimidate, while also being a threatening sweeper in its own right. I think Rock is the best Hidden Power choice here to massively chunk Zapdos to enable Metagross. Rock/Ground is also good neutral coverage on many. I think the last move basically has to be Taunt here to maintain momentum and not allow Skarm to sit on you. The momentum you can get from Taunting Skarm and then getting a second DD can straight up win games. It is also valuable against other fat things like Milo. Plus sometimes you can Taunt something, then die to it and then that provides a setup opportunity for Tar without fearing status. One weakness you can run into is people hard switching to Aero/Jolt, so sometimes you just have to attack on the switch to get that chip in.
Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 28 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Extreme Speed
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Toxic
The last slot I thought about a lot of options. In the end I wanted something that could force out Skarm directly to stop it from chip healing to high heaven, I also wanted to threaten defensive Celebi more because it is a real pain. Many mons that do this are special attackers though who do not have much overlap with Tar/Meta in checks so it doesn't force consistent enough progress. In the end I landed on Arcanine as it fits all the criteria. Fire is a great offensive type that melts Skarm/Meta/Bi, but with HP Fighting it can also deny DD Tar which would otherwise run over my team if it gets a free turn. It can also chip Lax/Bliss a bit which is nice as mentioned earlier. It lures in bulky waters and can Toxic them so they cannot handle the Tar/Meta onslaught at all. I considered running Roar in the last slot because it can chip them in the same way, but I find it is a more awkward click and more conditional. Good option to prevent setup though. Speaking of setup, with both Gyara and Arcanine I have two Intimidate mons which is great for stopping DD sweepers (esp. Salamence) that can run through these kinds of offensive teams if they get a turn. Intimidate stops them and even creates setup opportunities for me, which can outright win games. Lastly, Extremespeed is a nice emergency button to get rid of fast threats that are chipped down. A notable example is that Smeargle Explosion into Espeed kills OffMie which is a huge threat normally. Overall, I feel like Arcanine fills a valuable niche that I was struggling to fill in this last slot.
Closing Thoughts
So that's the team. I think it's like 90% there, but there might be some optimization, especially in the Gengar set to be done. That's of course why I wanted to post it too. Like many HO teams it can struggle with certain match-ups, e.g. OffMie is always a threat, but I feel like it has options in pretty much all cases. The thing I like the least is that Smeargle can be inconsistent into the weird leads you can run into on ladder, and especially the weakness to Sub. Unfortunately ADV is simply lacking in good HO leads compared to say DPP. As a final side-note: pinch berries should be experimented with more, they are great surprise factors that can flip a game on its head. I really want to try Endure Salac DDTar sometimes not gonna lie.
https://pokepast.es/6b211cb047f61eea
So I've been having fun trying out ADV recently after I got a bit bored with modern gens. I rather like the creativity you can have in the teambuilder with the limited pokedex and the overall lower power level. I generally like to build more offensive teams, and in particular I wanted to build around one of my all-time favorite mons (who fortunately happens to be the undisputed king in this tier): Tyranitar.
I rather like the core of this team, but I also wanted to see if anyone had suggestions to improve it, as it feels a bit tricky to pilot sometimes.
Teambuilding Process
So in particular, one set I wanted to build around is DD Tar holding a Liechi Berry and using Double-Edge. The goal of this set is to break a lot of the bulky water types like Swampert that are often the dedicated Tyranitar check. Since many of the more defensively invested waters cannot actually OHKO Tyranitar, you can proc the berry quite consistently, especially when you can manipulate your HP with Double-Edge. A full HP defensive Pert is actually not safe against this set with Spikes up. I wanted to pair this with an Agility Metagross who I think is a very threatening sweeper that is unfortunately hard walled by these water types.
While Tar and Meta have a lot of bulk and are frequently checks to a variety of mons, they do not want to switch in repeatedly with these sets, so that already leads the team to more of a hyper offense style. Additionally, spikes are great to help them actually break through checks. There's not a lot of offensive spikers, and I feel like Smeargle is the only one that gets up multiple layers consistently. It has some serious weaknesses, but it's the best we've got imo. Of course, we also want a spinblocker in that case.
Lastly I filled out the team with additional threats to cover weaknesses in the team. Gyarados is a threatening sweeper that can abuse passive mons with Taunt, while Arcanine pressures steel types like Skarmory that are otherwise annoying, while not giving up momentum against Tyranitar. I'll go into a bit more detail below.
The Team
Smeargle @ Salac Berry
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 68 HP / 188 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Spore
- Explosion
- Substitute
Smeargle lives to do one thing and that is to get up layers. Of course it also puts things to sleep, but that's mostly to get free turns for layers. Salac and the EV spread are of course standard so you can Spike T1 against Offensive Zap and then Spore it the next turn if it attacked. In the last two slots I've found Explosion and Substitute the most consistent. Substitute gives a layer of protection against the unfortunate min roll sleeps that plague this mon, while also giving you a way of manipulating yourself into Salac range. Explosion does what it always does: get chip damage and deny turns.
Tyranitar @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
The King. I love this mon so much. I already detailed the set above, but it's honestly one of my favorite sets. Not many mons can just straight break through their presumed counters, but this guy can. Of course more offensively invested waters will still blast you, but they also take a ton more damage so after a +1 DEdge plus Spikes chip, they are no longer a check to Meta in many cases.
Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Agility
AgiliGross with Rock Slide is a threat and a half. You trade the ability to be a breaker with Boom to hit flyers that are often hard to remove, and frequently the only real switchin after the main line of defense (Skarm/Pert) is gone. It also has great defensive value to its base stats and typing, giving it many setup opportunities. I've decided to go for Lum since I've no real ways of dealing with status, and it can force out or give me more setup opportunities on things like Wisp Gar or Twave Zap.
Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 168 HP / 164 SpD / 176 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain
- Focus Punch
- Explosion
So with Spikes Offense, you kind of need a spinblocker, especially with Smeargle who won't set up multiple times. I wanted to go for Banette originally because I like its lines of play better, but the team is incredibly ground weak already and I wanted to be able to threaten Skarm a bit more directly. Looking into potential sets, I decided to go for a more defensive one because I cannot switch into many special attackers, so this gives me a onetime switchin and I can get some chip off. The Speed EVs are to outspeed things like Moltres/Charizard/Zapdos so I can chip them down or force them out. I wanted Tbol to pressure Skarm of course, Giga Drain to cover the double to Pursuit Tar a bit better, and then I decided on Focus Punch to both smack Tar on the switch, but also to chip Blissey and Snorlax who can otherwise take a hit from Tar/Meta and potentially stop a sweep. Explosion of course is still the nr.1 move for momentum.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Earthquake
- Taunt
As Gengar has the average lifespan of a mayfly, I wanted another ground immune. I also felt like Metagross was quite a threat and didn't have a great switch to Pert if it comes in on Meta. Gyarados fulfills a valuable defensive niche, especially with Intimidate, while also being a threatening sweeper in its own right. I think Rock is the best Hidden Power choice here to massively chunk Zapdos to enable Metagross. Rock/Ground is also good neutral coverage on many. I think the last move basically has to be Taunt here to maintain momentum and not allow Skarm to sit on you. The momentum you can get from Taunting Skarm and then getting a second DD can straight up win games. It is also valuable against other fat things like Milo. Plus sometimes you can Taunt something, then die to it and then that provides a setup opportunity for Tar without fearing status. One weakness you can run into is people hard switching to Aero/Jolt, so sometimes you just have to attack on the switch to get that chip in.
Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 28 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Extreme Speed
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Toxic
The last slot I thought about a lot of options. In the end I wanted something that could force out Skarm directly to stop it from chip healing to high heaven, I also wanted to threaten defensive Celebi more because it is a real pain. Many mons that do this are special attackers though who do not have much overlap with Tar/Meta in checks so it doesn't force consistent enough progress. In the end I landed on Arcanine as it fits all the criteria. Fire is a great offensive type that melts Skarm/Meta/Bi, but with HP Fighting it can also deny DD Tar which would otherwise run over my team if it gets a free turn. It can also chip Lax/Bliss a bit which is nice as mentioned earlier. It lures in bulky waters and can Toxic them so they cannot handle the Tar/Meta onslaught at all. I considered running Roar in the last slot because it can chip them in the same way, but I find it is a more awkward click and more conditional. Good option to prevent setup though. Speaking of setup, with both Gyara and Arcanine I have two Intimidate mons which is great for stopping DD sweepers (esp. Salamence) that can run through these kinds of offensive teams if they get a turn. Intimidate stops them and even creates setup opportunities for me, which can outright win games. Lastly, Extremespeed is a nice emergency button to get rid of fast threats that are chipped down. A notable example is that Smeargle Explosion into Espeed kills OffMie which is a huge threat normally. Overall, I feel like Arcanine fills a valuable niche that I was struggling to fill in this last slot.
Closing Thoughts
So that's the team. I think it's like 90% there, but there might be some optimization, especially in the Gengar set to be done. That's of course why I wanted to post it too. Like many HO teams it can struggle with certain match-ups, e.g. OffMie is always a threat, but I feel like it has options in pretty much all cases. The thing I like the least is that Smeargle can be inconsistent into the weird leads you can run into on ladder, and especially the weakness to Sub. Unfortunately ADV is simply lacking in good HO leads compared to say DPP. As a final side-note: pinch berries should be experimented with more, they are great surprise factors that can flip a game on its head. I really want to try Endure Salac DDTar sometimes not gonna lie.