DP Blissey

obi

obi

formerly david stone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/blissey

I question the use of Seismic Toss Blissey in DP. Sure, not using it makes you weaker to, say, Calm Mind Substitute Raikou, but you can use Tyranitar or Hippowdon or several other Pokemon to take that on. Compare that to the threat of Gengar, which is much larger. Gengar alone is usually the reason I stick Blissey on my team, as opposed to just relying on something like Tyranitar + Celebi. For this reason, I would stick Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, or Ice Beam as the primary attack of every set, with Seismic Toss as a secondary option, if it's on the set at all.

Moreover, I feel that Blissey needs Special Defense EVs (and a Calm nature) to wall the special threats that do the most damage (in other words, the real threats). You can wall Milotic and Zapdos all day with Blissey regardless of your EV spread, yes, but I've never been straight-up swept by either of those. Things like Lucario and Gengar, however, are much more dangerous, and these require some EVs to take on.

For that reason, this is my update to each set. I'm leaving out the set descriptions for now because I have to rewrite a bit of a lot of them, and I don't want the way I say something to get in the way of what I am saying. What comments I write are also dependent on the final set, so I don't want to write something only to have to rewrite it.


[SET]
name: WishBliss
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect / Softboiled
move 3: Flamethrower / Ice Beam
move 4: Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD

Any attack can go over Toxic (Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Ground, and Seismic Toss are the main moves in the category of 'any attack' unless you need to beat something specific, like Grass Knot for Swampert). I strongly recommend Flamethrower as the lone attack if you use Toxic. This can survive a CH Specs max damage Modest Lucario Aura Sphere if you are at full health, letting you Wish and Protect the next turn.


[SET]
name: Cleric
move 1: Aromatherapy
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder Wave / Toxic / Seismic Toss
move 4: Softboiled
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 Def / 40 SpA / 216 SpD

Slightly more special defensive version because you can't stall out stuff with Protect. Just to show the max SpD I'd use on Blissey.

Any special attack can go in slot 2. You can also use another special attack in slot 3, but I prefer status.


[SET]
name: Special Wall
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Seismic Toss
move 3: Sing / Thunder Wave / Toxic
move 4: Softboiled
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 148 HP / 252 Def / 104 SpA / 4 Spe

I'll keep the older EV spread on the 'older' set.


[SET]
name: CMBliss
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Softboiled
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA

Max Special Attack is needed to guarantee the KO on 4 HP Chomp. It also gives you a good shot at OHKOing min HP Gyarados. I'm going to mention the ability to go more defensive with HP EVs. I don't think Calm Mind Blissey really has as much need (or room) to use Special Defense EVs.

You can use several combinations of Special Attacks. My new favorite is probably Flamethrower and Hidden Power Ground. Those two moves catch the most common Blissey switch-ins SE. It's nice to show Flamethrower, and then Calm Mind up once or so and nail Heatran for a OHKO. If you use that, you'll need Serene Grace, because your only option to really hurt Garchomp in particular is to burn it. 20% burn is good enough, I'd say (you'll obviously be wanting to open with Flamethrower to try and burn stuff as well as catching guys like Lucario and Heracross). I don't like Grass Knot with Flamethrower as much as I once did (it didn't pan out in testing). I'd rather just use Thunderbolt to cover Gyarados and Heatran better. You don't have a chance to Calm Mind up enough to do any serious damage to Tyranitar, anyway, so you might as well try and burn it with Flamethrower instead.


[SET]
name: CharmBliss
move 1: Charm
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Light Screen
move 4: Softboiled
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Calm
evs: 252 Def / 120 SpA / 136 SpD

Charm Blissey has even less of a need for HP EVs, I'd say.


[EVs]

Stuff about how aside from the Calm Mind set, any EV spread can be used on any set, with preference given to Special Defensive spreads.
 
How common are those anyway?

Pokemon that can Calm Mind in the Weighed Top50:

Blissey - lol
Lucario - nah, you'll want Flamethrower
Celebi - Seismic Toss is actually one of your worst bets, you'll want Ice Beam, Flamethrower or run
Cresselia - you won't win
Azelf - you're slightly better off with Seismic Toss here...but that's because it uses Nasty Plot
Jirachi - you'll want Flamethrower
Dusknoir - lol
Suicune - you'll want Thunderbolt or Serene Grace Ice Beam more than anything
Deoxys-E - same here
Spiritomb - see Dusknoir

Like, it helps against Raikou (#69), but it sucks against Mismagius (#64) and Slowbro (#65), so I don't see why Seismic Toss really helps.
 
I was just reading in the Policy Review that a ban on event moves is being considered. Should there be some sort of note on the first set along the lines of "Wish comes from an event only...".

I know WishBliss is a popular set on Shoddy, but it's near impossible to obtain in-game.
 
Really Thunderbolt, should go in place of Seismic Toss, but Seismic Toss is there because of the threat of having a one-on-one situation with another Blissey. Stalling won't work, because of Aromatherapy and you'll be completely walled if you use Special Attacks. That is one of the only reasons you should keep Seismic Toss.
 
Seismic Toss isn't really necessary. Agreeing with Aldaron on this one. On Mekkah's list of Calm Minders, Cresselia, Suicune, Jirachi, Celebi, and Slowbro actually use Seismic Toss Blissey to set up.
 
Seismic Toss won't help against enemy Blissey. You're better off spamming Ice Beam and hoping for a freeze so you can switch out for free (or Flamethrower and hoping for a burn) or just using Toxic. You'll easily be stalled with Seismic Toss thanks to Wish / Softboiled. Raikou is really the only reason I'd use Seismic Toss, and only a Substitute Calm Mind Raikou at that. Any other type of Raikou either beats Seismic Toss (those with Rest) or doesn't beat Blissey regardless (those without Substitute fall to Toxic, while those without Calm Mind aren't a big threat and are slowly weakened).
 
I just want to question why Wish Bliss should even get a place to itself in the analysis. I was under the impression that theres a movement towards a blanket ban on event moves due to the difficulty in tracking them. Said policy review linked below.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38902

Wish Blissey should come under that blanket ban since its a NYPC move. I think it might be wise to actually not to include Wishbliss for now as not to mislead some people. It could be mentioned in other options for the people who genuinely own legit copies, but otherwise its not really going to be a available set.
 
Eww, blanket ban is dumb, if time and effort is needed to track legit events I'll do anything if it means keeping event moves... if under question Shoddy should be as open as possible (to the limits of the game and stuff of course, that includes the new IV limits).

Thanks for switching the EVs to the good set, Obi. Counter on Charm Blissey could work (Counter as egg move to a Blissey holding the incense makes it legal right?)

I think Seismic Toss still has its uses, namely for Calm Minders, stuff you can't hit super effective, and things with Substitute, so it should be an option on a lot of sets. Wish prolly shouldn't be "the set" for the good EVs, a standard set with Softboiled n'stuff should be primary as not every team uses Bliss as a wisher, but every team should use the awesome EVs.
 
Forsety said:
I just want to question why Wish Bliss should even get a place to itself in the analysis. I was under the impression that theres a movement towards a blanket ban on event moves due to the difficulty in tracking them. Said policy review linked below.
Click to expand...

Unless and until we ban event moves, Wish Blissey is definitely remaining. If we decide not to use event move Pokemon, then Wish will get a less prominent placement. I will add a warning about that, however.
 
You might want to mention adding 20 HP EVs so that you can get max leftovers recovery outside of Sandstorm
 
Thanks for finally taking this on, Obi. I feel that a mathematical explanation, though, of why more SpD EVs are better than HP EVs, complete with a few damage calculations and/or common scenarios is necessary given our target audience. People have been using (or, more accurately and to the point, been told to use) near-max HP, max Defense and Bold since the beginning of Advance, and a change to its EVs "now" is as important to explain as a change of its movesets.

Also, I would rather rewrite the set comments and EVs section for this analysis myself, considering it's one of the few I did. You won't have a problem with that, right?
 
Go for it. It would help keep the tone of the article more consistent. I simply forgot to include my calculations, so I'll be adding those when I get back home later today.
 
this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

i believe the site has represented the OP's and Jump's intentions, so I think it can be deleted

someone double check for me though
 
I agree this has been represented on site. I believe this can be moved to the Peer Edit Archive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top