DP Relicanth

Metric

Metric

is banned in America
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/relicanth

Been playing around with Relicanth as of late, and was surprised to see no scarf set is mentioned on the analysis. I've found this set to work quite successfully;

[SET]

name: Choice
move 1: Head Smash
move 2: Aqua Tail / Waterfall
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Double-Edge / Stealth Rock
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Rock Head
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>STAB Head Smash with no recoil is very appealing indeed, even more so when coming from an Attack stat that approaches 460 when using the Choice Band. The great thing about the Choice Band set is that it makes most physical walls think twice about switching in. Skarmory gets 2HKOed by Head Smash, bulky Ground types don't enjoy STAB Water attacks and Earthquake puts a nice dent in Steel types. Waterfall is the more reliable choice for Water STAB, but Relicanth needs as much power as possible so Aqua Tail is recommended. Double-Edge is mostly for Breloom who resists all your other attacks.</p>

<p>The Choice Scarf set is geared more towards the UU environment due to it's lack of power in comparison to Choice Band. Stealth Rock is preferred on the Choice Scarf variant, since Double Edge provides no additional coverage in UU. Stealth Rock on a Choice set may seem odd, but the idea is to switch in on something like Swellow and put up Stealth Rock on the switch. After setting up Stealth Rock, Choice Scarf Relicanth is better saved for late game when it can sweep weakened and unexpecting opponents.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Choice Band set should have maxed Attack with an Adamant nature. Maxing out the speed EVs gives Relicanth 209 Speed, which outruns minimum Speed Suicune. Remaining EVs can go in HP.</p>

<p>With Choice Scarf equipped, a Jolly nature will allow you to outspeed all +speed natured base 105 Pokemon and below, most notably the likes of Ninetales, Manetric, and Scyther. Adamant is always an option if you wish for more power, in which case you would only outspeed +speed natured base 90 Pokemon and below.</p>

<p>Sleep Talking set can also go with max Attack and Adamant. Give him 401 HP with the remaining 16 in Defense.</p>

<p>For the Rock Polish set, Adamant and max Attack are once again the preferred spread. 198 Speed will outrun Aerodactyl and Jolteon, but max is suggested for random Choice Scarf users.</p>
 
Seems like it could work in UU, my only complaint is that I question whether or not it's different enough from the Choice Band set to warrant it's own set. I don't know if anyone else agrees with me but it would seem more appropriate to add a paragraph about the viability of choice scarf and switching over to Jolly in the Choice Band section.
 
Yeh, I think I agree with Caelum that they don't differ enough

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Head Smash
move 2: Waterfall / Aqua Tail
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Double-Edge / Stealth Rock
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
ability: Rock Head
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 14 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe

I'd suggest using that set, and adding your set comments to it. (Or reworking it with the CB set).
 
Technically he could add that using the Pre-evo Hippowdon since it is UU (providing +SpD from Sandstorm) is a good reason for using Choice Scarf Relincath, while Choice Band variants at least have the option of Swift Swim as an ability.

(In other words, with a Choice Scarf boost to its speed it can abuse a boost to its Special Defense, while Choice Band sets may forgo Rock Head for Swift Swim on occasion especially due to the popularity of Rain teams in UU).

*Just a possible reason for using CScarf over CBand. *Something small, but worth a small note.
 
hhjj said:
Technically he could add that using the Pre-evo Hippowdon since it is UU (providing +SpD from Sandstorm) is a good reason for using Choice Scarf Relincath, while Choice Band variants at least have the option of Swift Swim as an ability.

(In other words, with a Choice Scarf boost to its speed it can abuse a boost to its Special Defense, while Choice Band sets may forgo Rock Head for Swift Swim on occasion especially due to the popularity of Rain teams in UU).

*Just a possible reason for using CScarf over CBand. *Something small, but worth a small note.
Click to expand...

Last time I checked, Prevos of OU/BL pokemon weren't allowed in UU. But that may change in the future.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
[In reference to Shuppet being "banned in UU"] No it isn't. That was a mistake when implementing the UU ladder but it was fixed at the beginning of August.
Click to expand...
KD24 said:
You also want to be able to attack with it, Banette has Shadow Claw compared to Shuppet shadow sneak.

edit: stupid mistake, shuppet is not banned in uu as it was fixed.
Click to expand...

Winto said:
Shuppet is banned in UU? :/

That doesn't really make any sense. As I remember, NFE's of UU's are not banned.
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Based on the Bannette thread Shuppet isn't banned in UU, so I don't know why pre-evo Hippowdon would be.

Shuppet has the same typing and Ability as Bannette, unlike Scyther / Scizor so the whole "difference" thing isn't an issue.
 
Hippopotas is one of the NFEs that will very likely be specifically banned from UU even if all NFEs become allowed there (like Chansey).

Swift Swim is not at all an option on Relicanth as the thing that saves him from the depths of NU is no recoil Head Smash.
 
Considering that it knows Aqua Tail (202 base power in Rain) gives it an edge of Waterfall Kabutops, so Swift Swim sets are possible.
 
@ Caelum & Havak; Yeah I see now that the movesets aren't that much different to warrant two seperate articles. I merged the two into a 'Choice' set as you suggested Havak.

@ hhjj; Hippopotas is highly unlikely to be allowed in UU anytime soon. With regards to Swift Swim, as Chris already stated, the main selling point of Relicanth is it's powerful STAB Head Smash with no recoil.
 
Agreeing Hippopotas is a non-issue, even if after the UU/BL/NFE testing or whatever it was allowed in UU I suspect it wouldn't be used that much (it would make Shuckle incredibly annoying though >_>). Head Smash is the primary reason to use Relicanth (and Head Smash without Rock Head is a bit impractical for UU in my opinion) and without Head Smash it's just a crappy Kabutops. Rock Head is definently the way to go.

Anyway, now the revised set. Nice job Metric. I finally got around to testing the Scarf set and I must say it did work very nicely. It can act as a surprise revenge killer and it was very effective so props for attempting to add this to to the Relicanth analysis. Now, you merged them very well but I have two nitpicks. After you say Stealth Rock is preferred but a comma in and write "since Double Edge provides no additional coverage in UU". Now, this is something I have about all analysis and maybe it's just me but I always feel when an analysis says that move X is preferred over move Y that the order should be consistent. Let me explain, you say Aqua Tail is preferred over Waterfall yet we have written Waterfall / Aqua Tail. I would like to see it as Aqua Tail / Waterfall. I don't believe it's a policy here to do that but I think it's more visually consistent.

Again, nice job.
 
This set is pretty similar to the CB set so I don't see why we can't just add Choice Scarf as a slash in the item slot in the "Choice Band" set...then add SR as an option over D-E.

Why does this set have 14 HP EVs? I know you only really want to outspeed 105ers but is 3 extra HP really worth losing a speed tie against other Relicanth? I doubt it. Unless 3 hp makes you not 4hkod by SR I would just go 252/252/6.

I'm really surprised this set isn't already in the analysis, so my vote goes to "replace the current CB set with this one".
 
hhjj said:
Considering that it knows Aqua Tail (202 base power in Rain) gives it an edge of Waterfall Kabutops, so Swift Swim sets are possible.
Click to expand...

No. Not really at all. Waterfall from Base 115 Attack outdamages Aqua Tail from base 90 attack all the time. Not to mention that factoring in accuracy, Aqua Tail barely manages to do more damage than Waterfall over time from the SAME attack stat. Considering how much worse Relicanth's Speed is than Kabutops's, there's no advantage at all to using Relicanth as a Swift Swimmer when you have Kabutops available.

Really, Head Smash is /all/ Relicanth has going for it. It's just that Head Smash is such an amazing move and Waterfall gets great coverage with it.
 
@ jrrrrrr; You raise a valid point. The difference is not that significant, and I'm willing to change it of others agree.

Also, moved information about Choice Scarf EVs to the EVs section as I felt it was more appropriate to place it there.
 
this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

don't delete but um no I disagree with Jrrrrrrr in replacing the Choice Band set. (actually do you want to replace it or add a / you said both in your post lol)

I've used Choice Band and it is very good, so either / this or make it a separate set
 
oh wow youre right, I did say both lol.

Well what I meant was to just slash the choice band set and put scarf as an option. Also, change the EV spread in the analysis. What is that extra 3 HP for? lol. Oh, and add some of the comments from this edit it to explain how valid a choice scarf set is.
 
I think everything there was intended to replace the orginal Choice Band set completely, and that was a whole re-work of EVs that should replace the current version.

Yeh, it was, I remember helping with this now. Whoever updates this should just replace the current Choice Band set and replace the EVs section with what is up there.

I'll actually go ahead and do it now providing no one else is, I'd hate to cause confusion though lol.
 
Oh, I didn't realize that this was updated.

Yeah, just replace the current "Choice Band" set with the set listed in this edit and we'll be all set.
 
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