DP Tyranitar

Caelum

qibz official stalker
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
So, this is a set I've been using on the suspect ladder for a while now and has really helped me with this more stall oriented metagame. It kinda started when I was reading the Chain Chomp analysis and I kinda just stumbled on to this by chance. I ask you guys to give it a try first before discounting it since I know it probably looks like a gimmick at first glance (I thought so as well and was just trying it for fun) but it's actually worked really well for me. Darkie said in another thread that he used this with different EVs (hopefully he can post them since they may be superior to mine) and maybe he can comment on its success (assuming I didn't misunderstand him).

I just want to answer two questions that are sometimes raised and address them before they are raised here. The first one being, why not just use Boah as a wall breaker? Obviously Tyraniboah is a very good wall breaker. The difference between this set and Boah is that Boah is just going to break down it's common counter but it will not sweep. This Tar can Dragon Dance for a sweep and break many (although not as well as Boah admittedly) of its physical counter. The next question is always, then why not use Lure/Mix Tyranitar? Once again, the opportunity to sweep isn't there in the same way and by using Dragon Dance it makes the opponent even more secure that this is a purely physical Tyranitar or at worst will be firing off a weak Ice Beam.

Oh, I think I might need a better name (obviously if this isn't rejected), ideas?

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tyranitar

[SET]
name: Mixed Dancer
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
nature: Hasty
evs: 116 Atk / 144 SpA / 248 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Mixed Tyranitar with Dragon Dance? At first glance this set may seem to be nothing more than a gimmick but, much like Chain Chomp, is designed to act as a lure to draw certain Pokemon in and either OHKO them or cripple them. This will give an opening for a sweep from Lucario, Garchomp, and the like; even Tyranitar itself may be able to sweep a lot more easily. When Tyranitar is first sent out Tyranitar should Dragon Dance to scout and after using Dragon Dance many opponents will be tricked into believing this Tyranitar is either purely physical or at worst will be launching a weak Ice Beam. To your opponents surprise they will find their Hippowdon, Skarmory, or Bronzong either KO'd or crippled to the point where it can no longer effectively wall. With maximum Special Attack Tyranitar will be able to OHKO or 2HKO such common switch-ins such as Skarmory, Metagross, and Bronzong with Fire Blast or Gliscor, Hippowdon, or Donphan with Ice Beam.</p>

<p>Dragon Dance with STAB Crunch will be the primary method of sweeping, back by the remaining attacks to rid of Tyranitar's common counters. Fire Blast is used to take out the bulky Steel-types and will OHKO Skarmory and Forretress and 2HKO most Bronzong and Metagross. Ice Beam is used to eliminate bulky grounds and will OHKO or 2HKO all of them with the exception of Swampert.</p>

<p>Stone Edge is a usable alternative over Crunch to hit Gyarados and other Pokemon neutral to both harder and prevents Heatran from walling you entirely. Due to the little investment in Attack, however, Crunch's 20% chance to lower an opponent's Defense can be quite useful. Blizzard can be used over Ice Beam for the higher base power but the reduced accuracy is a turn off. If Swampert is that large of a problem Hidden Power Grass is usable but it has little use otherwise.</p>

<p>With 248 Speed EVs, Tyranitar can outrun base Speed 115 Pokemon after a Dragon Dance. 144 Special Attack EVs guarantee a 2HKO on most Bronzong, the remaining EVs were placed into attack.</p>
 
I don't this Tar reaches a good amount of attack to sweep. Swampert comes in and isn't 2HKO'd by Crunch after a DD and neither Blizzard. That is, if it hits twice in a row.

If you can get around that, I also think Thunderbolt should be an option over Fire Blast, as it'll still hit Skarmory + hits Gyarados and Bulky Waters.

It seems no better than the standard DDTar. As for the name, you could just do Dragon Dance V.2
 
The primary goal isn't too sweep, it just so happens to be a by product on occasion. It's to lure counters into a false sense of security. Also, there is a slight chance the standard Swampert can be 2HKO with a +1 Crunch. That same tar does around 29% - 34% with Ice Beam as well so it's not exactly getting in for free. Gyarados won't really switch into a +1 DD Tar either and most bulky waters can be 2HKO with residual damage.

The comparison between DD Tar doesn't make sense since they server entirely different purposes.
 
Caelum said:
The primary goal isn't too sweep, it just so happens to be a by product on occasion. It's to lure counters into a false sense of security. Also, there is a slight chance the standard Swampert can be 2HKO with a +1 Crunch. That same tar does around 29% - 34% with Ice Beam as well so it's not exactly getting in for free. Gyarados won't really switch into a +1 DD Tar either and most bulky waters can be 2HKO with residual damage.

The comparison between DD Tar doesn't make sense since they server entirely different purposes.
Click to expand...

I think they are similiar becuase you lure in Gliscor or Garchomp with a false sense of security and then Ice Beam them and their counter is dead, opening up a sweep. With Taunt, you completely screw over Skarmory forcing it to attack using a resisted move so you'll come out on top.

This set does finish more possible counters (namely bronzong), which means it does it's job. Good work! :toast:
 
Well, the idea is to kill skarmory not force it out with Taunt so it can ruin some other physical attacker you have who Skarmory can harass later. Thanks for the compliment though.
 
A mix DDtar is extremely viable. I have used one personally and I've seen many people be really successful with it.

Unfortunately...there already is one in the analysis (If you put Ice Beam on it), and it gets much better type coverage. Even if you don't put Ice Beam on it, the moves that are already there get better type coverage anyways. There really isnt any reason to use Dragon Dance on a mixed set since you aren't attacking physically as much and a Rock Polish set would be a much better way to gain speed. Rock Polish is already in Other Options, though.

Plus, that EV spread would be terrible on a mixed TTar. You don't need that much SpAtk to beat your counters, and you cant even 2hko Swampert (if you want to rely on that 17% chance go ahead). Oh and youre completely walled by Heatran and other Tyranitar.
 
meh, I see where you are coming from. I've had a lot of success with it so I'll probably still use it but if everyone else just feels that way some mod just feel free to close it.
 
Expert Belt should be an option imo, as it is more advantageous in certain situations, particularly during the early, as it doesn't give away the set easily, and late games, since residual damage can be assumed to have been dealt to TTar already as it is a common counter for many Pokemon.

I really don't think Blizzard should be an option for the main set. It isn't reliable enough and most of its counters are still 2HKO'd by Ice Beam according to your set comments. Throwing in a bit about it being able to OHKO Hippo with SR up is good enough for Blizzard imo.

<p>Mixed Tyranitar with Dragon Dance? At first glance this set may seem to be nothing more than a gimmick but, much like Chain Chomp, is designed to act as a lure to draw certain Pokemon in and either OHKO them or cripple them. This will give an opening for a sweep from Lucario, Garchomp and the likes; even Tyranitar itself may be able to sweep a lot more easily. When Tyranitar is first sent out, Tyranitar should Dragon Dance to scout and after using Dragon Dance many opponents will be tricked into believing this Tyranitar is either purely physical or, at worst, will be launching a weak Ice Beam. To your opponents surprise, they will find their Hippowdon, Skarmory, or Bronzong either KO'd or crippled to the point where it can no longer effectively wall. With maximum Special Attack, Tyranitar will be able to OHKO or 2HKO common switch-ins such as Skarmory, Metagross, and Bronzong with Fire Blast or Gliscor, Hippowdon, or Donphan with Blizzard or Ice Beam.</p>
Click to expand...

The 2nd sentence was originally too long. I broke it up into two sentences and reworded it.

I believe "lauching" was meant to be "launching"?

"KO'd" sounds better than "dead" in this game.

Got rid of "Once the defensive core of an opponents team has been weakened it becomes quite simple to pull off a DD Tar sweep or a sweep by a secondary physical powerhouse such as Sword Dance Lucario." as it has already been mentioned, except it was ordered differently.

<p>Dragon Dance with STAB Crunch will be the primary method of sweeping, backed by the remaining attacks to rid of Tyranitar's common counters. Fire Blast is used to take out the bulky Steel-types . Either Blizzard or Ice Beam is used to eliminate bulky grounds and will OHKO or 2HKO all of them with the exception of Swampert. The choice between Ice Beam and Blizzard is a difficult one and reduces to the argument of accuracy versus power, however Blizzard shouldn't be discounted since the higher base power can be useful and notably can OHKO Hippowdon with Stealth Rock damage and do around 40% - 48% to Relaxed Swampert.</p>
Click to expand...

I didn't like how you phrased the second bit of the first sentence, especially without a comma. You basically said that DD, Crunch, Fire Blast and Ice Beam should be its main form or attacking/sweeping but I knew you meant otherwise. I rephrased it so that it won't confuse any people who read in depth naturally ._.;

Lol, "steal types". There's a first to everything. ;p

Took out "and will OHKO Skarmory and Forretress and 2HKO most Bronzong and Metagross" as it is pretty much a tautology, afterall, you already have stated that it takes out Steel-types already.

I think "However" is better word choice than "but".

<p>Stone Edge is a usable alternative over Crunch to hit Gyarados and other Pokemon neutral to both harder. Due to the little investment in Attack, however, Crunch's 20% chance to lower an opponent's Defense can be quite useful.</p>
Click to expand...

What exactly is "both" referring to? Be more clear.

I don't really like the consistency of sentence structure of your analysis. Like stories and speeches etc., they should change and so my edit in the middle of the paragraph.

<p>With 248 Speed EVs, Tyranitar can outrun base Speed 115 Pokemon after a Dragon Dance, if Hasty, and all neutral natured if Mild. The remaining EVs were put into maximizing Special Attack and then Attack.</p>
Click to expand...

Took out "all of positive blah blah" since it isn't needed. Stating something can outrun a base x Speed Pokemon indicates all kinds of base x Speed Pokemon will never be able to outspeed Tyranitar.

I think this analysis is quite good, although you should proofread a bit next time. You forgot commas everywhere, as well as simple capitalizations. ):
 
I prefer a simple Scarf on a mixed set. Much more effective, IMO. And 226 Sp. Atk with a neutral nature has been plenty in my experience. Though I will say, I got thoroughly raped (lost 2 pokemon before I figured out what it was) by a Dragon Dance/Fire Blast/HP Grass/[I didn't see the last move] once.
 
Thanks Junior & Syberia.

@ Junior: I actually did proofread it Junior, I just suck at proofreading my own stuff. I'm great at catching other peoples mistakes, but my own, not so much (there's a reason I'm not an English major). The only reason I gave Blizzard as an option (which I was a bit skeptical of anyway) was the fact that Thunder is give as an option on one set so I thought it might be alright. I'll just drop that for Ice Beam. I'm glad you liked the set (unless I misread you). Tested Expert Belt, it worked about as well so I'll throw it in as an option over Life Orb.

@ Syberia: I could make HP Grass an option, but outside of Swampert it's not too useful. In terms of your Scarf comparison I see where you are coming from but this set has a different type of surprise value than a scarf set. Scarf Tar is a great Pokemon and can nab a few surprise kills but I've found this one can do it almost identically since it can bluff the role of bit easier and I've swept quite a few times with just DD Crunch.
 
I've used this set:

Tyranitar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 112 Atk/252 Spd/144 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

and it worked great for me. It worked well in standard to clear for a Garchomp sweep (I used SubSalac).
 
darkie said:
I've used this set:

Tyranitar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 112 Atk/252 Spd/144 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

and it worked great for me. It worked well in standard to clear for a Garchomp sweep (I used SubSalac).
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree with darkie here although you should use Hasty over Naive as Tyranitar should be able to switch in to Special Attacks way easier. Plus the sandstorm boost is what matters!
 
Yeah, I needed a really specially offensive one for a particular team of mine and I tested it and the EVs are about equally effective (although I prefer mine just a bit :p ). I'm entirely willing to change them since I'm willing to bet consensus will be Darkie's spread, but before I edit them in, could someone explain what exactly the EV spread does in terms of how did you allocate your EVs?
 
Max Speed; 2HKO (53.25% - 62.72%) on 252 HP / 128 SpD Sassy Bronzong with LO Fire Blast; rest in attack. You can move 4 EVs from speed to attack if you want. I picked Naive because I was A-OK with taking Special Attack as it was, but Hasty is probably better in the long run.
 
Chople Berry should be an item so you can get that extra DD and proceed to sweep with much more ease. IMO, this should be treated like YacheChomp, except it's ChopleTar. Though it is not as broken.
 
Sikh Assassin said:
Chople Berry should be an item so you can get that extra DD and proceed to sweep with much more ease. IMO, this should be treated like YacheChomp, except it's ChopleTar. Though it is not as broken.
Click to expand...

I almost feel like that would work better on standard DD Tar more than this one. Maybe you could suggest it in the Small Changes Thread? I'll test it out with this set but I remember it working pretty good on the standard set.
 
I saw Jabba use it a lot and it can work great on both sets actually. +2 Speed and Attack since you're guaranteed about 2 DDs with Chople Berry, one on the switch, and the other on the attack.
 
this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

don't delete, site has a dragon dance set yes, but I SERIOUSLY believe a mixed dragon dance set should be a SEPARATE set because it is awesome

now i dont know if it should be this specific one because i ran a different set but let's get discussion going again regarding the best "on average" mixed set and then detailed explanation regarding the plethora of options it can ran instead
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top