Hey guys,
First of all council guys, thanks for your work and all the effort you put into making the DPP OU's landscape more enjoyable for competitive players.
It is important to ensure that decisions made regarding the tier are with the goal of making it more competitive so that players can stand out because of their in-game skill and not their ability to set up Marowak or not depending on the matchup. Regarding Ninjask and its recent use in tournaments; we all agree that the DPP OU is a bit sick these days and it is clear that we can see Poliwrath and Marowak doing spectacular sweeps using the same strategy/process (lead Aero/Azelf taunt rock + Starmie + Ninjask + receiver + mag) which makes it even more ridiculous. Indeed, we realize that despite the popularization of this new yet predictable technique, counterplays are limited for common patterns and this is problematic because winning at team preview (I guess you got it lol) consistently without requiring any prior thought process just by loading baton-pass is purely anti-competitive in the strict sense of the word. However, I'm not against the fact that there are niche strategies that can auto-win to the match up but are unreliable. On the contrary, it adds diversity to the game, and that's what makes this tier so interesting because there is a multitude of under-exploited strategies that are viable to some extent, and I think as players we all want to preserve that aspect here.
I, therefore, approve of the council's decision to ban this strategy, which is considered anti-competitive. However, withdrawing the Baton Pass move in its entirety is contrary to the values that should want to keep the diversity of the tier as intact as possible. Let me explain my reasoning:
I am aware that Baton Pass is a relatively rare move and that banning it will have a lesser or almost undetectable impact on the metagame as a whole since 1) the use of this attack (except Ninjask or Gliscor) on pokémons who learn it is rare 2) until now, no one used to take into account the Ninjask + Pass strategy in teambuilding. However, I would like to point out, that by banning Baton Pass the move, we are also removing a small niche in the DPP OU that has nothing to do with the strategy mentioned above.
The biggest loser in this story is in my opinion Jolteon, its above-average speed with its electric type forces switches while Baton Pass is a momentum tool that makes Spikes / Stealth Rock profitable. The set was already rare and I don't really see myself reusing
Choice Specs Jolteon which thanks to baton pass could keep the momentum against Hippowdon, Swampert or Ttar and punish offensive cores such as Ttar + Gyara / Ttar + Dnite with entry hazards. On the other hand,
Sub + Baton Pass is another interesting move-set this pokemon can use. Although again this is limited to particular patterns, Jolteon's offensive presence forces switches providing it the necessary momentum to place a substitute that can then be Baton Pass on an ally that has good synergy with Jolteon such as Gyarados or Lucario like
The Sprinkler did in this recent game :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-496465
Or as mentioned W3K on KG's match during last SPL with Charge Beam BP Jolt.
Another loser is Zapdos, so it's not too bad because 99% of Zapdos are played without Baton Pass. However, in a context and with adequate support,
Substitute + Baton Pass Zapdos can be a good set because, similarly to Jolteon, it has certain ease in using the Substitute attack. This can be rewarding when coupled with pokémons who synergize well with it and who appreciate having a Substitute such as Swampert, Breloom or Dugtrio who could cover the coming of Tyranitar and keep the offensive momentum. In this DPP cup match that opposes
Lucix to
Sakito, although the RNG distorts the outcome of the match and some plays may be questionable, the strategy of Sub + Baton Pass to switch in Breloom against Clefable is good.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-1107540021-etc2lc04pqk6b54ph145o53p29xt8ccpw
Another loser, in this case, is Celebi. Turns out Celebi Passer is very rare, a bit like Zapdos. But also in the right context and with a bit of creativity in the teambuilder, it is possible to make it work and make it interesting in some match-ups. I'm thinking of
NP Pass, SD Pass, and CM Pass which provide unexpected and viable strategies to a certain extent as in this recent match on which I'm against Void (Excal's team btw).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-497869
By the way, we can also point out that Baton Pass makes them immune to Tyranitar's Pursuit when they switch out as they all fear it. It seems to me that these are the 3 biggest (we could add Vaporeon but as Excal said it's barely viable) although there must still be a few but that are not really important in my opinion.
I don't have a particular love for these sets, but although the Baton Pass move ban solves a non-competitiveness problem, it creates another by removing a niche in the metagame. I really like the DPP OU and I would like to keep its diversity intact as much as possible even if we have to ban strategies like Ninjask Pass. if Ninjask Pass is a problem, banning the problem and not the move is the solution that avoids banning the other strategies at the same time. As for Gliscor, it doesn't seem to me that Gliscor has been a problem lately and I don't see him (for now at least) being able to be as reliable as Ninjask in terms of passing stats. Although I admit that the latter seems to be a difficult case that would deserve a discussion about it, it seems to me that it requires dual screens to work and can't Baton Pass Sub + Stat as easily as Ninjask does because it requires 2 turns of set up. Also, it requires Yachee Berry to survive and therefore has no sustain for doing it later again. Gliscor has Taunt, but it still seems to be slightly harder to set up which makes it a different case from Ninjask whose ban may be questionable. In any case, a complex Baton Pass + Speed ban, or simply Ninjask ban would preserve these little niches. That's just an idea tho, I guess you got the general thoughts.
That's all for me guys, thanks for reading.