DPP Gardevoir (Dual Screen)

[Legacy Raider]

.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gardevoir


[SET]
name: Dual Screen
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Healing Wish / Memento
move 4: Psychic / Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
item: Light Clay
ability: Trace
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Like many of its fellow Psychic-types, Gardevoir has access to both Reflect and Light Screen. What sets Gardevoir apart as a dual screener, however, is its Trace ability and respectable Special Defense, which give it many opportunities to switch into battle, and its wide supporting movepool beyond the two screens.</p>

<p>In addition to Reflect and Light Screen, Gardevoir can use a myriad of other useful supporting moves. Healing Wish is extremely helpful in the later stages of the battle, when sweepers have taken hits and are generally quite low on health. It is the ultimate sweeper rejuvenator, healing all HP and status at the cost of Gardevoir fainting itself. This also has the advantage of not wasting any additional turns of the screens, and gets a sweeper in straightaway to make the most of them. Memento works similarly, but instead of healing another team member, it sharply reduces both of the opponent's attacking stats. This is perfect in giving a set up sweeper a free turn, as your opponent will be loathe to keep in their weakened Pokemon. Memento is not constricted to use later on in the game, but it doesn't have as significant an effect as Healing Wish does. On the other hand, Destiny Bond is an option if you are looking for Gardevoir to contribute more to the team's offense, as it can be used to take an opposing Pokemon down with it.</p>

<p>Even without any investment, Gardevoir sits on a respectable 286 Special Attack. This makes a STAB Psychic a good choice as the last move, being able to deal with weakened Pokemon such as Infernape if need be. Will-O-Wisp is useful as an additional buffer against physical attackers, and helps to make up for Gardevoir's weak Defense. It is also useful as it is a permanent solution to the likes of Scizor and Tyranitar, meaning they fail to be a threat to both Gardevoir and the rest of the team once burnt. Alternatively, Wish grants Gardevoir a way of keeping its own health high to set up screens repeatedly, and can be passed on to other Pokemon on your team to heal them without having to sacrifice Gardevoir.</p>

<p>Gardevoir has a massive movepool and a lot of different options can go into this last slot. Taunt is another really helpful move to have on a dual screener - it stops threatening sweepers from abusing Gardevoir's lack of offense and setting up on it, as well as preventing other Pokemon with weak offenses from accomplishing anything significant against Gardevoir. Used in conjunction with Destiny Bond, it can force opponents to attack, allowing you to take down an opposing Pokemon with a lot more reliability. If you plan on going direct to a sweeper after setting up the screens, Taunt will also prevent crippling status moves from being used against them. As far as Gardevoir's own status options go, Hypnosis can be used to temporarily remove any opposing Pokemon from the battle if the accuracy doesn't let you down, and Thunder Wave slows the opponent down so Gardevoir can screen up before they attack, as well as potentially giving Gardevoir free turns to go about its job.</p>

<p>Trace provides plenty of opportunities to switch in in OU, since many Pokemon can have their abilities used against themselves. Jolteon, Heatran, Vaporeon, and Electivire will not be able to hit Gardevoir with their primary STAB attacks, meaning they will more than likely switch. By Tracing Natural Cure, Gardevoir fears very little from setting up on Celebi or Blissey. If Scarf Magnezone is locked into an attacking move, Gardevoir can come in and trap it with a Traced Magnet Pull, forcing the opponent to helplessly stay in as you go about giving your team all the support it needs. Since the majority of these Pokemon are special based, and Gardevoir itself leans more towards sponging these special attacks, the EVs of the set are designed to let it do so. The Speed EVs allow Gardevoir to outspeed Adamant Scizor, allowing it to set up a Reflect before Scizor hits, easing the damage against the metal bug's Choice Band U-turn so that it no longer OHKOes. Alternatively, a faster spread with 200 Speed EVs allows Gardevoir to get the jump on Jolly Tyranitar and many of the Pokemon that EV to specifically outspeed it, and being able to go first against common Pokemon such as Celebi is very helpful when running Taunt. To get this faster Speed, EVs should be taken from Special Defense, as Gardevoir's low HP needs all the bolstering it can get. For the item choice, Light Clay is definitely the way to go, as it greatly extends the duration of the screens.</p>

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Given that Gardevoir is mainly a UU Pokemon, how does this set do in UU play? There aren't exactly that many viable UU dual screeners outside of the pixies, Claydol, and maybe a few other options I might have missed.

 

[Legacy Raider]

There aren't that many good abilities for Gardevoir to Trace in UU - it's basically limited to Flash Fire from Arcanine and Ninetales, the Water Absorbers in Lapras, etc, Clefable's Magic Guard, and Roserade and Chansey's Natural Cure. However, I have used this successfully with Thunderbolt in the last slot in taking on Gorebyss and Omastar on rain teams, which Gardevoir does pretty well. Also, there aren't too many dual screeners that can use Wish or Healing Wish in UU either, which is another boon for Gardevoir. When the UU voting is done, I'll put in a paragraph about Gardevoir's uses in UU, but in the meantime, I've got this based around how Gardevoir works in OU.

 

[Matthew]

.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gardevoir


[SET]
name: Dual Screen
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Healing Wish / Destiny Bond
move 4: Psychic / Wish
item: Light Clay
ability: Trace
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 120 SpD / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Like many of its fellow Psychic-types, Gardevoir has access to both Reflect and Light Screen. What sets Gardevoir apart as a dual screener, (remove however) is its ability, Trace and respectable Special Defense.(period) With this it will have many opportunities to switch into battle, and help your team with its wide supporting movepool beyond the two screens.</p>

<p>In addition to Reflect and Light Screen, Gardevoir can use a myriad of other useful supporting moves. Healing Wish is extremely helpful in the later stages of the battle, where sweepers have taken hits and are generally quite low on health. It is the ultimate sweeper rejuvenator, healing all HP and status at the cost of Gardevoir fainting itself. This also has the advantage of not wasting an additional turn of the screens, and gets a sweeper in straightaway to make the most of them. On the other hand, Destiny Bond is an option if you are looking for Gardevoir to contribute more to the team's offense, as it can be used to take an opposing Pokemon down with it.</p>

<p>Even without any investment, Gardevoir sits on a respectable 286 Special Attack. This makes a STAB Psychic a good choice as the last move, being able to deal with weakened Pokemon such as Infernape if need be. Alternatively, Wish grants Gardevoir a way of keeping its own health high to set up screens repeatedly, and can be passed on to other Pokemon on your team to heal them without having to sacrifice Gardevoir. (remove really) Gardevoir has a massive movepool, and because of this there a quite a few options for the last slot. As far as status options go, Will-O-Wisp can further help Gardevoir set up on physical Pokemon, Hypnosis can potentially cripple any opposing Pokemon if the accuracy doesn't let you down, and Thunder Wave slows the opponent down so Gardevoir can screen before they get a chance to attack, as well as potentially giving Gardevoir free turns to go about its job. Focus Blast will make Tyranitar think twice between coming into Gardevoir to Pursuit it, and Hidden Power Fire can nab a quick OHKO on any menacing Scizor.</p>

<p>Gardevoir has plenty of opportunities to switch in in OU, since many Pokemon can have their abilities used against themselves. Jolteon, Heatran, Vaporeon, and Electivire will not be able to hit Gardevoir with their primary STAB attacks, meaning they will more than likely switch. By tracing Natural Cure, Gardevoir fears very little from setting up on Celebi or Blissey. If Scarf Magnezone is locked into using Hidden Power Fire,(remove or even) Flash Cannon or Thunderbolt (remove for that matter), Gardevoir can come in and trap it with a Traced Magnet Pull, forcing the opponent to helplessly stay in as you go about giving your team all the support it needs. Since the majority of these Pokemon are special based, and Gardevoir itself leans more towards sponging these special attacks, the EVs of the set are designed to let it do so. The Speed EVs allow Gardevoir to outspeed Adamant Scizor so that it doesn't have to take a super effective hit from the metal bug before it has a chance to set up Reflect. For the item choice, Light Clay is definitely the way to go, as it greatly extends the duration of the screens.</p>

This was pretty well written, just some parts sounded extrememly awkward to me.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks for the grammar check, Gen. I edited in most of your suggestions.

 

[ViRiD]

Just an aside, a Gardevoir with reflect and Will-o-Wisp instead of Light Screen can occasionally cripple a dangerous physical attacker if it is allowed the time to set up.

The biggest issue I have with using screens, or a lot of setup moves in general, is that she either needs a lot of protection through her team or she needs to come in on an elemental absorber(Jolteon, Electivire, Heatran) to get the kind of set up she needs.

 

[twash]

This also has the advantage of not wasting any additional turns of the screens, and gets a sweeper in straightaway to make the most of them.

I know it wasn't a typo but your not always going to waste a turn of the screens if you don't have Healing Wish, so I think the revised version is slightly better. I'm being nitpicky though.

The Speed EVs allow Gardevoir to outspeed Adamant Scizor so that it doesn't have to take a super effective hit from the metal bug before it has a chance to set up Reflect.

This is pretty confusing...Scizor will hit Gardevoir for super effective damage regardless of whether Reflect is up or not, and (to me) it sounds like Scizor is the one setting up Reflect.

Therefore I suggest:

The Speed EVs allow Gardevoir to outspeed Adamant Scizor, allowing it to set up a Reflect before Scizor hits, easing the damage against the metal bug's Choice Band U-turn so that it no longer OHKOes.

Nice work.

 

[gorm]

I'm surprised memento wasn't mentioned somewhere here... seems pretty ideal for this set. I'd slash it in with hw/db

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks for the catch gorm. I hadn't realised Gardevoir learned Memento; I always preferred Healing Wish, but you're right, it is very viable on this kind of set. I've relegated Destiny Bond to set comments only, and slashed in Memento next to Healing Wish.

Thanks for the grammar Twash.

 

[MetaNite]

Are UU analysis allowed now? If they are, you should probably mention SOMETHING about UU, because Dual Screen is viable there too, perhaps moreso with the generally weaker attacks going around (SD Ursaring is win).

Something to note is that Gallade can do this same set but with a lot more powerful attack, and usually lures more things to Reflect on or burn, like Gyarados. Another thing would be to add Will-o-Wisp as a primary option to permenantly cripple a Pokemon. And for Gardevoir, the things like Heatran and Infernape who are immune to Will-O-Wisp are generally walled by Gardevoir.

Other than Trace though, there is no reason to use this over Cressalia or Uxie, as both possess higher speed and a whole lot more defense. Like, a whole lot of defense, I mean it really... a lot. You should probably say some comparisons between the dual screeners, such as how Uxie can't switch into a Choice Specs Jolteon, or Heatran for that matter, while Gardevior can (just add something like "while Uxie cannot").

EDIT: Your welcome. I don't want to clog this thread with a small arguement so I'm editing this in here. I meant Will-O-Wisp as an option over Reflect, not a whole other slot, like how it is with Rotom-A. I'd rather cut Tyranitar's attack forever basically than just 8 turns. Although you do have Wish, Destiny Bond, Memento, etc. you can't use all of them at once and at least one other (usually bulkier) Dual Screener has access to said move, i.e. Jirachi has Wish.

I understand what you are saying, sort of, but first you said attack wasn't important then list Focus Blast and a powerful Psychic as advantages Gardevoir has. Where, Gallade can handle Scizor without killing itself in some scenarios. And again, you can't have Memento, Destiny Bond, both screens, WoW, in addition to Focus Blast. The set is probably worthy of an analysis, but it is just very specific. Sorry for being critical, had a rough day.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Are UU analysis allowed now? If they are, you should probably mention SOMETHING about UU, because Dual Screen is viable there too, perhaps moreso with the generally weaker attacks going around (SD Ursaring is win).

No, UU analyses are not allowed yet. The peer edit is based around dual screen Gardevoir's uses in OU, as shown by the last paragraph. I've posted regarding UU already.

Something to note is that Gallade can do this same set but with a lot more powerful attack, and usually lures more things to Reflect on or burn, like Gyarados. Another thing would be to add Will-o-Wisp as a primary option to permenantly cripple a Pokemon. And for Gardevoir, the things like Heatran and Infernape who are immune to Will-O-Wisp are generally walled by Gardevoir.

For a dual screener, Atk is not really of relevance. Gallade is inferior to Gardevoir as a dual screener because it doesn't have Trace, which like I've pointed out, is one of the biggest advantages Gardevoir has over any other dual screener. Will-O-Wisp has been mentioned as a secondary option in the set comments; it is by no means a primary one when Gardevoir has access to much better supporting moves in Wish, Memento, and Destiny Bond. Since Gardevoir is running both Reflect and Light Screen, and its priorities are to set them up first, Will-O-Wisp would only be of use to further weaken a physical attacker. As such, I think I've given it adequate mention in the comments.

Other than Trace though, there is no reason to use this over Cressalia or Uxie, as both possess higher speed and a whole lot more defense. Like, a whole lot of defense, I mean it really... a lot. You should probably say some comparisons between the dual screeners, such as how Uxie can't switch into a Choice Specs Jolteon, or Heatran for that matter, while Gardevior can (just add something like "while Uxie cannot").

Trace gives Gardevoir many potential immunities in OU, granting it not only free switchins but free turns as the opponent switches out, as well as opportunities to safely set up its support, such as the Magnezone scenario mentioned in the last paragraph. Gardevoir has access to Wish, whereas neither Cresselia nor Uxie do, allowing it to support its team to a far greater degree, as well as heal itself a lot more reliably than either of the bulkier Psychics can. Cresselia has Lunar Dance, Uxie has Memento, Gardevoir has both (or variants thereof), and you can choose which one suits your team, or run both and choose one for the situation. Gardevoir has Destiny Bond, allowing it to take out an opposing Pokemon as well, something other dual screeners really cannot do. Gardevoir has a far greater Special Attack stat than either of the other two, and has access to Focus Blast to 2HKO (or OHKO less bulkier) Tyranitar switchins, as well as a high enough Special Attack stat that a non-invested HP Fire will guarantee the OHKO on a 200/0 Scizor with SR. And, like you've pointed out, Gardevoir can Will-O-Wisp to take approximately a quarter from CB Tyranitar's non-switching Pursuit under Reflect.

Gardevoir has a massive movepool, so half of this stuff won't even be expected. Are you really wary of a Destiny Bond when faced with a Gardevoir, or do you send in your CB Scizor to try and deal with it straightaway, forgetting it is unlike other Psychics and can potentially burn you? Scizor and Tyranitar users know that Uxie and Cresselia are free switch ins, while Gardevoir can threaten them both with status and 4x super effective moves. Cresselia and Uxie may have the edge on Gardevoir in terms of base stats, but Gardevoir thoroughly trumps them with its movepool and great ability. The bulky psychics may be superior defensively, but that doesn't make them superior dual screeners.

Thanks for your input MetaNite =).

 

[Fuzznip]

Trace does give it some immunities, but it's not guaranteed that you will be able to switch in on a Thunderbolt from Jolteon or a Fire Blast from Heatran. One mistake might cost you because it's very predictable. So it's harder to actually accomplish that, and this is when Cresselia and Uxie do a better job at this, even though Gardevoir has a larger movepool.

 

[diinbong]

The possibility of an opponent's team having at least one Heatran/Jolteon/Blissey/Starmie/Electivire/Vaporeon/Magnezone (/Flygon locked in Earthquake, possibly Intimidators if you stretch a bit) is very high, Fuzznip. It is not at all unviable to be dependent on your opponent's team having one of these Pokemon in today's metagame, and even on the off chance they don't, its sort of a "2/10 times this will work better!" to be using Uxie or Cresselia for that reason.



edit; and when I said Flygon locked into Earthquake, obviously it was in brackets because you're not going to be switching directly into Flygon, however it is a fairly possible situation.

 

[Fuzznip]

The possibility of an opponent's team having at least one Heatran/Jolteon/Blissey/Starmie/Electivire/Vaporeon/Magnezone (/Flygon locked in Earthquake, possibly Intimidators if you stretch a bit) is very high, Fuzznip. It is not at all unviable to be dependent on your opponent's team having one of these Pokemon in today's metagame, and even on the off chance they don't, its sort of a "2/10 times this will work better!" to be using Uxie or Cresselia for that reason.

I know that, but I am saying that it is very predictable for the opponent to sense a switch to Gardevoir. And if you make the mistake about coming in on an expected Earthquake from Flygon but instead it turned out to be a Dragon Claw or something, that's gonna cost you. It's all about predictability when it comes to Trace.

 

[Objection]

I know that, but I am saying that it is very predictable for the opponent to sense a switch to Gardevoir.

If you have not yet revealed Gardevoir, then such a switch is anything but predictable simply because Gardevoir is UU and whenever people battle in OU, they hardly ever consider the possibility of a UU pokemon on the opponent's team.

 

[Fuzznip]

If you have not yet revealed Gardevoir, then such a switch is anything but predictable simply because Gardevoir is UU and whenever people battle in OU, they hardly ever consider the possibility of a UU pokemon on the opponent's team.

That's just one time though. After that, it's predictable.

 

[Matthew]

That's just one time though. After that, it's predictable.

but then the opponent knows he/she will have to be careful with his Heatran's Fire Blast or Jolteon's Thunderbolt.

 

[diinbong]

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. What makes switching to a Gardevoir more predictable than switching to Cresselia or Uxie? If a Heatran or Jolteon know that one of them are going to switch in its play will be different regardless.

anyway, this isn't a discussion on how well your opponent can predict a switch to a counter, this is a discussion on this set; I would drop it.

 

[Fuzznip]

but then the opponent knows he/she will have to be careful with his Heatran's Fire Blast or Jolteon's Thunderbolt.

And the person will have to be careful with switching Gardevoir into a Heatran's Fire Blast or a Jolteon's Thunderbolt because they could use something else.

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. What makes switching to a Gardevoir more predictable than switching to Cresselia or Uxie? If a Heatran or Jolteon know that one of them are going to switch in its play will be different regardless.

anyway, this isn't a discussion on how well your opponent can predict a switch to a counter, this is a discussion on this set; I would drop it.

Gardevoir will be in a tight situation if she comes in on a predicted Fire Blast from Heatran but it turns out it was a... I dunno.. Earth Power let's say. But Cresselia and Uxie don't need to worry about wrong switch ins. And yeah, we'll drop it.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Are there any more comments on this?

People are stating things without really backing them up, or explaining what I should do about them. Fuzznip, you keep saying that Gardevoir is predictable on the second switch in, what exactly should I do about it in relation to the peer edit? It's not just you, I'm just using your post as an example, but I'd like advice on what to change or add please :).

EDIT:

Gardevoir will be in a tight situation if she comes in on a predicted Fire Blast from Heatran but it turns out it was a... I dunno.. Earth Power let's say. But Cresselia and Uxie don't need to worry about wrong switch ins. And yeah, we'll drop it.

Naive Heatran Earth Power vs Gardevoir: 21.17 - 25.00%

Not really a tight situation tbh Fuzznip. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[Blue Kirby]

The only thing I'm remotely "iffy" about is even mentioning Focus Blast and Hidden Power Fire as options for the last slot. Sure, with Focus Blast (and if Stealth Rock is up), you can OHKO 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar, and you can bother Heatran. However, coming from 286 Special Attack, and taking into account that you're only sitting on 5PP with 70% accuracy, it doesn't really seem worth mentioning. Yeah, you can dispatch Scizor with Hidden Power Fire, but why not guard yourself against both by using Will-O-Wisp if that's such an issue? Honestly, I would prefer to solidify Reflect by crippling a switch-in with Will-O-Wisp. Even Thunder Wave will be potentially buying you time to do your thing and switch out. I would pretty much stick to Psychic or Will-O-Wisp - they both allow Gardevoir to do its thing a fair bit better.

Apart from that, this is a great write up. Well done. :)

 

[Legacy Raider]

Point taken, thanks. I've been using Will-O-Wisp in the last slot in my most recent testing and it has proven to be very useful, a lot more than Wish I would have to say. Psychic has still been the best though in my opinion, as it allows Gardevoir to actually use that base 125 Special Attack to take out weakened enemies. It's really annoying when you have a 25% Infernape or something SDing up while you set up Screens, and so having that Psychic just to kill it off is great. I'll relegate Wish to set comments and replace it with WoW on the set.

EDIT: Also removed mention of FB and HP Fire, thanks :).

 

[Fuzznip]

Are there any more comments on this?

People are stating things without really backing them up, or explaining what I should do about them. Fuzznip, you keep saying that Gardevoir is predictable on the second switch in, what exactly should I do about it in relation to the peer edit? It's not just you, I'm just using your post as an example, but I'd like advice on what to change or add please :).

EDIT:


Naive Heatran Earth Power vs Gardevoir: 21.17 - 25.00%

Not really a tight situation tbh Fuzznip. Thanks for your concern though.

I'm just using that as an example, not literally. Also, you can't change anything about Gardevoir because it's predictable, it's just the way it is.

 

[TAY]

Taunt should probably be an option (or at least in set comments) for any dual screener that has it. I've used this in UU and Taunt was a major help to stop things from setting up (off the top of my head, in OU it would save you from Gyarados, Agility Metagross, Breloom, Skarm, etc). Additionally, it lets you set up on status users and phazers really easily without having to use Taunt / Sub on whatever you're switching in.

Honestly I would also run more speed, just to get screens down in front of more stuff...but I'm obsessed with maxing speed on stuff so maybe that's just me. Using more speed should definitely be mentioned in set comments though (especially with Taunt).

 

[Legacy Raider]

TAY, I've added in Taunt and mentioned a faster spread, but the writeup is looking pretty massive now. I guess being thorough is a good thing, and it's Gardevoir's own fault for having so many useable options, but is it OK to have such a big writeup for this kind of secondary set?