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OU DPP OU Teambuilding Competition
- Thread starter Oatmon
- Start date
In a close round of voting, with an wide spread of votes cast between many participants, the winner of the teambuilding competition for Eeveelutions is Robertshortgrass!
From Robertshortgrass: https://pokepast.es/3f93eaae01752a4a
Since it is an odd numbered competition, the next theme can be any Pokémon from the top 30 of the VR (link), and will be chosen by Robertshortgrass as a reward for winning the last competition. If they don’t want to choose, or don’t choose by 30/09/25, then I’ll post a theme by 1/10/25 (GMT).
From Robertshortgrass: https://pokepast.es/3f93eaae01752a4a
Since it is an odd numbered competition, the next theme can be any Pokémon from the top 30 of the VR (link), and will be chosen by Robertshortgrass as a reward for winning the last competition. If they don’t want to choose, or don’t choose by 30/09/25, then I’ll post a theme by 1/10/25 (GMT).
Once it's announced you win the competition, comment your choice in a new post with the new theme at the top of the message.
There are some rules as to what you are able to pick.
- For every odd teambuilding competition, you can pick any Pokémon from the top 30 of the VR (link).
- For every even teambuilding competition, you can pick anything you want with no restrictions.
These rules are in place to ensure that we don’t get too many difficult mons to build with in a row, which has caused inactivity in the past.
You can also choose a set or a theme to build with instead of a Pokémon. E.g., Build with banded tyranitar, or build with water spam. You can choose more difficult themes if you wish, but please exercise discretion.
Once picked, your choice can't be changed, so bear that in mind.
There are some rules as to what you are able to pick.
- For every odd teambuilding competition, you can pick any Pokémon from the top 30 of the VR (link).
- For every even teambuilding competition, you can pick anything you want with no restrictions.
These rules are in place to ensure that we don’t get too many difficult mons to build with in a row, which has caused inactivity in the past.
You can also choose a set or a theme to build with instead of a Pokémon. E.g., Build with banded tyranitar, or build with water spam. You can choose more difficult themes if you wish, but please exercise discretion.
Once picked, your choice can't be changed, so bear that in mind.
Robertshortgrass has chosen a new theme! We are doing Choice Specs Heatran this round! No other restrictions apply, except that it is an OU team.
As usual, the winner of this competition gets to choose the next theme.
Submissions are open now, and will close on Saturday the 11th of October, at 11:00 pm GMT. From there we'll move onto voting, which will most likely close on Saturday the 18th of October at 11:00 pm GMT.
Happy building :)
As usual, the winner of this competition gets to choose the next theme.
Once it's announced you win the competition, comment your choice in a new post with the new theme at the top of the message.
There are some rules as to what you are able to pick.
- For every odd teambuilding competition, you can pick any pokemon from the top 30 of the VR (link).
- For every even teambuilding competition, you can pick anything you want with no restrictions.
These rules are in place to ensure that we don’t get too many difficult mons to build with in a row, which has caused inactivity in the past.
You can also choose a set or a theme to build with instead of a pokemon. E.g., Build with banded tyranitar, or build with water spam. You can choose more difficult themes if you wish, but please exercise discretion.
Once picked, your choice can't be changed, so bear that in mind.
There are some rules as to what you are able to pick.
- For every odd teambuilding competition, you can pick any pokemon from the top 30 of the VR (link).
- For every even teambuilding competition, you can pick anything you want with no restrictions.
These rules are in place to ensure that we don’t get too many difficult mons to build with in a row, which has caused inactivity in the past.
You can also choose a set or a theme to build with instead of a pokemon. E.g., Build with banded tyranitar, or build with water spam. You can choose more difficult themes if you wish, but please exercise discretion.
Once picked, your choice can't be changed, so bear that in mind.
Submissions are open now, and will close on Saturday the 11th of October, at 11:00 pm GMT. From there we'll move onto voting, which will most likely close on Saturday the 18th of October at 11:00 pm GMT.
Happy building :)
Okay. I have some absolute heat. This is very much a team I might play in a serious game, but it is strong enough that I think revealing it doesn't really matter.
Edit: Here is a nice replay of this team against mendeez (ladder goat). Obv the rachi set is a little edited. You can use a couple different things on rachi or specs tran here.
Edit: Here is a nice replay of this team against mendeez (ladder goat). Obv the rachi set is a little edited. You can use a couple different things on rachi or specs tran here.
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Wanted to try out a bulky NP Celebi set with Specs Ran since I figured this team needs a little help against fatty waters & Breloom.
I think HP Fighting on Specs Ran is a bit underrated imo given how Specs Ran usually suffers from getting walled by Tar, Clef, Lati, or bulky water. Flamethrower is needed in case if I run into a Protect heavy team & Dragon Pulse is there so I don’t want to over rely on Scizor being the Lati answer.
Replay showing me winning with this team against a Semi Stall hazard stack (1548 elo):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2434663171?p2
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Fun team to use. Go specs tran. This comp has inspired me to buy a heatran plushie. Catching tran for 1st time as a kid... man what an experience.
Wanted to try specs in the back/ w other mons but ended up with this, it felt pretty good to me flow wise. Team building is such a challenge which is what makes it so damn fun.
Hoping to continue to improve, also love how hard specs tran hits stall. Absolutely Goated.
https://pokepast.es/4d83e24d0ec35895
some interesting set choices on here since this team is basic. scarf rocks rachi in the back I didn't think would work but it has proved more effective with zapdos in the lead slot. it was pointed out to me that considering you wont be tricking early against offense to handle dd tar and rocks can go up against slower teams with suit tar. hp fire can be changed over u turn on celebi to help vs breloom. not the most creative team but i hope yall can apprecieate it regardless.
https://pokepast.es/44d3a54be9116c17
https://pokepast.es/9b4be202457af539
I like pairing bulky Roserade with specstran here cuz in the case that a starmie switches in on tran you go right into rade which either absorbs water move, prevent spin by immediately threatening mie after recover (or twave which ncure makes it absorb easily), or immediately reapply hazards pressure if opponent does spin. Spikes also help immensely by wearing down checks like suicune, swampert and tyranitar.
Magneton is used here to limit opposing spikes which this team is somewhat weak to, and opens the way for, Sky Attack Gliscor is a breaker which really appreciates spikes that also checks fighters in a pinch and baits in problematic water checks like milotic and swampert which are cleanly ohko’d after rocks (the bulkier variants of the latter with spikes).
Finally Blissey is here to really sponge up special hits and provide much needed security against calm minders and specs breakers (and baits opposing heatran into booming which really helps our own tran). (Edit: Opt for ib over twave on blissey to improve gengar matchup, blissey still wins against cmers and worst case go into magneton to paralyze) Twave Gyara checks things like ape and luc and forms a pretty solid defensive and offensive core alongside tran and rade. Twave cuts opposing checks’ consistency and / or make tran outspeed them.
(Old team, and my replays were before the purge unfort)
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I like the Heatran specs proposal, as I was just thinking about a team based on it. It offers a lot of flexibility in terms of style and strategies. In my case, I wanted to go with Eruption over Overheat. The only problem is that it has to be Quiet nature. And I don't intend to use it as a lead, as it tends to be a bit obvious, and I think starting with Bronzong is better. By the way, I decided to make it physically defensive to better withstand damage from threats such as DD ttar, nite, or Gyarados. I made Heatran a little bulky with 52 EVs in speed (182), which can work against Iron Ball gross/Skarmory without speed, although the latter doesn't matter too much. It can take 3 Tbolts from offensive Zapdos, for example. This kind of team wouldn't make sense without Celebi and the classic FWG core plus Starmie. It does a good job of paralyzing threats and providing support. HP Fire seemed like a good option against Scizor mainly. 4 in SpD for SBall LO Gengar and click Twave. Fable is my most reliable special wall. For a moment I thought about its set with Wish to give more support to Heatran, but I think it makes more sense in teams with TSpikes. 32 EVs in defense to take Scarf ttar's SPower and be able to paralyze, for example. Knock Off is a good option for disabling things. I think SpD Gliscor fits perfectly here. Besides, I can't think of a better EV distribution. Apart from beating ttar, it can take 3 Crunch from the DD (+1) set and 3 SBall from LO Gengar. Well, last but not least, we have Starmie, which, apart from my spinner completes the most famous core, along with the psychic type with Bronzong + Celebi. The team can be a little weak against Infernape or spam fighting in general, so the introduction of Starmie is undeniable. Hpump over Surf to eliminate 2+ ttar + greater damage vs. Scarf Rotom.
Below is a replay of me testing the team in action. It may not be an effective example, and I could have played the Flamethrower vs. Starmie turn better by using Eruption. In the end, it was pretty close because luck wasn't on my side. --> vs Tiniebla
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Hello everyone, I've been lurking in this chat for a while and figured that the Specs Heatran team competition is the best place to post my first team. I present to you guys my personal favorite hyper offense team: Forretress Hazard Stack HO.
https://pokepast.es/5990acd21edc1b81
Bear with me, I know this looks wild - let me explain.
Forretress:
Forretress is awesome in the lead slot as it has some very favorable matchups against Metagross, Hippowdown, Bronzong, Tyranitar lacking Fire Blast, Jirachi, physical Swampert, and to some extent Latias as it forces a switch and gives free SR. From there, unload yourself to your heart's content and spin the opponents hazards away until you die. It is also very good against Aerodactyl lacking Double-Edge, as it brings it down to it's sash in one turn if it taunts you and then you kill it with rapid spin.
The advantage of using Forretress as a HO lead compared to Azelf, Aerodactyl, Bronzong, Breloom or Skarmory is that it:
Azelf: Get taunted and hit it with Gyro Ball / Rapid Spin until it dies. Keeping hazards off your side of the field is paramount here.
Skarmory: Same as against Azelf. Most lead Skarmorys don't carry leftovers, so chipping it helps in the long run. In this matchup you can afford to stack hazards aswell.
Empoleon: Remove its Focus Sash with Rapid Spin and die to Hydro Pump + whatever. If its a defensive variant, throw hazards on the fields and spin away the opponent's until you die.
Roserade: Sacrifice it as sleep fodder and the switch to Heatran. If it misses Sleep Powder, just stack hazards until you are sleeping. Toxic Spikes can be ignored.
Zapdos: Get SR and then die.
Breloom: Use Forretress as sleep fodder.
Heatran: Use Rapid Spin to potentially break it's sash or use SR while it brings you down to your own sash.
Magnezone switches in instantly: get a layer of hazards and die
DD Dragonite: hlep (switch in gyara. good luck)
CB Gyarados: get SR on the field, then sack it or switch in Gyara / Heatran / Rotom depending on the move
Other Forretress: well, Rapid Spin has 64 PP for a reason.. or just scare it out with Heatran
If Forretress stays alive, use it as sleep fodder later in the game or to keep up momentum. Letting go of it can bring in a sweeper for free.
Heatran:
Specs Heatran has awesome synergy with Forretress, as it switches into almost all the leads that give forretress trouble. It outspeeds Empoleon, scares out Roserade, OHKOs Zapdos, scares out Magnezone and punishes predicted fire attacks aimed at it with Flash Fire from the likes of Azelf. It can also scare out other Heatran in a pinch. After switching in, do what it does best: unleashing a powerful fire attack and examine the opponent's response. I usually go with Flamethrower, as it is strong enough and doesnt leave you with momentum sink like Overheat sometimes does.
Heatran also enjoys being partnered with Forretress, as it preserves its bulk with no hazards on the fields to stomach a drago or an outrage later in the game.
Gyarados:
Gyarados synergizes well with Heatran and Forretress, as it switches into all the other leads that might give Forretress + Heatran trouble and sets up a DD, forcing the opponent to reveal it's checks. Wacan Berry ensures that it won't fall to Rotom / Latias / Jirachi / Zapdos in one hit if Forretress was able to keep SR off the field and Ttar hasn't set up sand yet. I've had games in which I was able to get a second DD on the opponent's scarfer and win the game on the spot, because Gyarados broke through it's remaining checks with hazards and a lucky flinch. Since Forretress is really good at keeping hazards off the field, it can be beneficial to switch to Heatran once the opponent reveals the Gyarados check. From there you can throw another Specs Overheat / Flamethrower at the opponent and Gyarados can come in again later to wreak havoc.
Tyranitar:
DD Tyranitar is able to punish the Pokemon revenge-killing Gyarados by setting up with a DD. Sometimes the opponent is content with sacking their scarfer, potentially giving you multiple DDs. Lum Berry makes sure that Toxic Spikes don't bother you the first time you switch in. It also allows Ttar to set up on Thunder Wave Starmie, who would otherwise be very annoying for this team.
Rotom-A:
This team really needs a revenge killer, and Rotom is the best for the job. With key immunities / resists to Fighting, Ground and Electric it punishes the opponent for attacking Heatran, Gyarados and Tyranitar. It can often prove beneficial to keep it concealed until late in the game, as the team's sweepers are able to weaken the checks it can't break through in one hit, like Latias, Jirachi, Heatran, Bronzong, Ttar, Swampert, Kingdra etc. Having another Ground / Fighting answer can also force more switches to rack up more hazard damage.
Since Forretress might be able to throw a lot of hazards on the field, Rotom can be brought in early to act as an (often one-time) answer to rapid spin. Usually the opponent will reveal Ttar next, so just spam hydro pump and hope that it doesnt have passho.
Bronzong:
Bronzong is the glue for this team. It switches into Dracos, Flygon, Jirachi and Gengar and sets up Trick Room in its first turn. From there, press buttons. My experience is that a lot of teams are prepared to take on the DD sweepers, but struggle with TR attackers at the same time. Use that to your advantage to get unexpected KOs on things like CS Rotom, Gengar, Starmie, Latias, Breloom etc. It also sets up TR on DD Gyarados / DD Dragonite in case Rotom went down early and counters the only sweeper that Rotom is helpless against: DD Tyranitar.
The core of OTR Bronzong + CB Tyranitar is well-known, which can work to your advantage, since your own Tyranitar is a DD variant. You may be able to get a surprising KO on a Lucario thinking it can setup SD after you use Crunch with Ttar.
Unfortunately, TR can also be your downfall against slow teams, so delaying the boom until the last or second last TR turn is advised.
tldr
This team aims to lay down as many hazards as possible with Forretress at the beginning of the game and then breaks through the opponent with powerful sweepers. The type synergy allows for daring plays that keep forcing unfavorable switches on the opponent, racking up a lot of hazard damage in the process.
I really enjoy playing this team and it has brought me into the 1600 range more than once.
The EVs could be tweaked a bit on Heatran, Gyara, Ttar and Bronzong to accomodate for TR, but I've not run into major problems by using max speed on them.
Cheers, Dako
https://pokepast.es/5990acd21edc1b81
Bear with me, I know this looks wild - let me explain.
Forretress:
Forretress is awesome in the lead slot as it has some very favorable matchups against Metagross, Hippowdown, Bronzong, Tyranitar lacking Fire Blast, Jirachi, physical Swampert, and to some extent Latias as it forces a switch and gives free SR. From there, unload yourself to your heart's content and spin the opponents hazards away until you die. It is also very good against Aerodactyl lacking Double-Edge, as it brings it down to it's sash in one turn if it taunts you and then you kill it with rapid spin.
The advantage of using Forretress as a HO lead compared to Azelf, Aerodactyl, Bronzong, Breloom or Skarmory is that it:
- doesn't rely on speed ties to prevent hazards
- has rapid spin, giving the sweepers in the back a free entry and makes a dedicated offensive spinner like Starmie unnecessary.
- is still useful if it gets taunted
- hits ghosts hard with Gyro Ball if they try to prevent it from rapid-spinning
- lays down SR and Spikes
- is still useful if it is put to sleep, as it provides a defensive switch-in against metagross, physical jirachi, breloom, bronzong, tyranitar lacking a fire move etc.
Azelf: Get taunted and hit it with Gyro Ball / Rapid Spin until it dies. Keeping hazards off your side of the field is paramount here.
Skarmory: Same as against Azelf. Most lead Skarmorys don't carry leftovers, so chipping it helps in the long run. In this matchup you can afford to stack hazards aswell.
Empoleon: Remove its Focus Sash with Rapid Spin and die to Hydro Pump + whatever. If its a defensive variant, throw hazards on the fields and spin away the opponent's until you die.
Roserade: Sacrifice it as sleep fodder and the switch to Heatran. If it misses Sleep Powder, just stack hazards until you are sleeping. Toxic Spikes can be ignored.
Zapdos: Get SR and then die.
Breloom: Use Forretress as sleep fodder.
Heatran: Use Rapid Spin to potentially break it's sash or use SR while it brings you down to your own sash.
Magnezone switches in instantly: get a layer of hazards and die
DD Dragonite: hlep (switch in gyara. good luck)
CB Gyarados: get SR on the field, then sack it or switch in Gyara / Heatran / Rotom depending on the move
Other Forretress: well, Rapid Spin has 64 PP for a reason.. or just scare it out with Heatran
If Forretress stays alive, use it as sleep fodder later in the game or to keep up momentum. Letting go of it can bring in a sweeper for free.
Heatran:
Specs Heatran has awesome synergy with Forretress, as it switches into almost all the leads that give forretress trouble. It outspeeds Empoleon, scares out Roserade, OHKOs Zapdos, scares out Magnezone and punishes predicted fire attacks aimed at it with Flash Fire from the likes of Azelf. It can also scare out other Heatran in a pinch. After switching in, do what it does best: unleashing a powerful fire attack and examine the opponent's response. I usually go with Flamethrower, as it is strong enough and doesnt leave you with momentum sink like Overheat sometimes does.
Heatran also enjoys being partnered with Forretress, as it preserves its bulk with no hazards on the fields to stomach a drago or an outrage later in the game.
Gyarados:
Gyarados synergizes well with Heatran and Forretress, as it switches into all the other leads that might give Forretress + Heatran trouble and sets up a DD, forcing the opponent to reveal it's checks. Wacan Berry ensures that it won't fall to Rotom / Latias / Jirachi / Zapdos in one hit if Forretress was able to keep SR off the field and Ttar hasn't set up sand yet. I've had games in which I was able to get a second DD on the opponent's scarfer and win the game on the spot, because Gyarados broke through it's remaining checks with hazards and a lucky flinch. Since Forretress is really good at keeping hazards off the field, it can be beneficial to switch to Heatran once the opponent reveals the Gyarados check. From there you can throw another Specs Overheat / Flamethrower at the opponent and Gyarados can come in again later to wreak havoc.
Tyranitar:
DD Tyranitar is able to punish the Pokemon revenge-killing Gyarados by setting up with a DD. Sometimes the opponent is content with sacking their scarfer, potentially giving you multiple DDs. Lum Berry makes sure that Toxic Spikes don't bother you the first time you switch in. It also allows Ttar to set up on Thunder Wave Starmie, who would otherwise be very annoying for this team.
Rotom-A:
This team really needs a revenge killer, and Rotom is the best for the job. With key immunities / resists to Fighting, Ground and Electric it punishes the opponent for attacking Heatran, Gyarados and Tyranitar. It can often prove beneficial to keep it concealed until late in the game, as the team's sweepers are able to weaken the checks it can't break through in one hit, like Latias, Jirachi, Heatran, Bronzong, Ttar, Swampert, Kingdra etc. Having another Ground / Fighting answer can also force more switches to rack up more hazard damage.
Since Forretress might be able to throw a lot of hazards on the field, Rotom can be brought in early to act as an (often one-time) answer to rapid spin. Usually the opponent will reveal Ttar next, so just spam hydro pump and hope that it doesnt have passho.
Bronzong:
Bronzong is the glue for this team. It switches into Dracos, Flygon, Jirachi and Gengar and sets up Trick Room in its first turn. From there, press buttons. My experience is that a lot of teams are prepared to take on the DD sweepers, but struggle with TR attackers at the same time. Use that to your advantage to get unexpected KOs on things like CS Rotom, Gengar, Starmie, Latias, Breloom etc. It also sets up TR on DD Gyarados / DD Dragonite in case Rotom went down early and counters the only sweeper that Rotom is helpless against: DD Tyranitar.
The core of OTR Bronzong + CB Tyranitar is well-known, which can work to your advantage, since your own Tyranitar is a DD variant. You may be able to get a surprising KO on a Lucario thinking it can setup SD after you use Crunch with Ttar.
Unfortunately, TR can also be your downfall against slow teams, so delaying the boom until the last or second last TR turn is advised.
tldr
This team aims to lay down as many hazards as possible with Forretress at the beginning of the game and then breaks through the opponent with powerful sweepers. The type synergy allows for daring plays that keep forcing unfavorable switches on the opponent, racking up a lot of hazard damage in the process.
I really enjoy playing this team and it has brought me into the 1600 range more than once.
The EVs could be tweaked a bit on Heatran, Gyara, Ttar and Bronzong to accomodate for TR, but I've not run into major problems by using max speed on them.
Cheers, Dako
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This team is an edit of an edit of an edit of a team I built earlier this year. I changed Gliscor to Specs Tran, Trick-IB Meta to Lefties, and Pursuit Tar to DD. I played several games with it and I knew I was ready to submit it when Tran did 88% to an offensive Starmie with Overheat.
Bonus Team:
This is an edit of an Excal team; the big edit being the inclusion of Specs Tran over Scarf Magneton. I had a lot of fun playing with it but I am not it submitting for the comp because I don't feel like it's my team. I'm sharing it because I didn't want it to rot in my builder, so enjoy.
Here are some clips of Flash Fire boosted Eruptions doing insane things.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2452506297-up48pdxvkvt98iwibsrm1hyjehxigf3pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2452502309-fl45b9vo828t90bs0cppko635911wjxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-2452785758-7ojsjsyjbhspqoad7s0o3pc1utgxgippw
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Voting has begun for the teambuilding competition featuring Choice Specs Heatran! This round is fiercely contested with 7 entries vying for the top spot. The teams submitted were:
From steve22: https://pokepast.es/94d01473c6768713
From Jhall99: https://pokepast.es/bca403fc62279a81
From ballout650: https://pokepast.es/4d83e24d0ec35895
From TBE: https://pokepast.es/44d3a54be9116c17
From DazzlingCream: https://pokepast.es/9b4be202457af539
From Jeong: https://pokepast.es/d7b81509839dc6f6
From Dakophyntix: https://pokepast.es/5990acd21edc1b81
From robertshortgrass: https://pokepast.es/832b583fa4bc83ff
Who built the best team? The deadline for voting is next Saturday (19/10/2025), 11:00 pm GMT.
Once voting concludes and the winner is announced, they will choose the theme for the next competition.
From steve22: https://pokepast.es/94d01473c6768713
From Jhall99: https://pokepast.es/bca403fc62279a81
From ballout650: https://pokepast.es/4d83e24d0ec35895
From TBE: https://pokepast.es/44d3a54be9116c17
From DazzlingCream: https://pokepast.es/9b4be202457af539
From Jeong: https://pokepast.es/d7b81509839dc6f6
From Dakophyntix: https://pokepast.es/5990acd21edc1b81
From robertshortgrass: https://pokepast.es/832b583fa4bc83ff
Who built the best team? The deadline for voting is next Saturday (19/10/2025), 11:00 pm GMT.
Once voting concludes and the winner is announced, they will choose the theme for the next competition.
Steve
Between Steve's and Jhall's for me but I think I have to give the edge to Jhall (except for my disdain for bulky scarftias), cb rachi doesn't quite fit imo and idk about specs magma storm but I like the approach from both of these teams best overall.
Also shoutout to Dakophyntix for so much effort put into publishing their first team, it has interesting ideas but some parts of it doesn't quite work imo, and in light of this effort I wanna address some part of why some altercations may make the team run the mile (imo). Like the matchup list for forre:
- Azelf: You basically have to keep clicking spin to keep rocks off but it can either uturn to break your sash while you spin into their switchin, or it twaves you and wait until you get fully para and then spinblock or boom. Worst case it is fire blast and you're in trouble.
- Skarm is kinda the same except it can brave bird to chip you down while you have no recovery, or it taunts you and then just switches to a beneficial mu after breaking sash and you're in a worse position
- Emp: It's gonna hydro first because forre has spin, so do you spin to prevent t1 rocks or lay down spikes and die; and if you get hydro into spin do you just sacrifice forre or switch risking them clicking rocks on t2 (I think good players will just click rocks t2 cuz the worst thing is just that you spin on it for 2% damage)
- Other scenarios mentioned are similarly not very good for you and isn't really what you want in a lead, especially HO where you need to make good trades
I think if your primary purpose is to keep rocks off it's better to run zelf or aero for better game-to-game value but I understand the choice of forre. They also synergizes with Wacan Gyara spectacularly because it can even take STAB scarf Tbolts with rocks off (for example, it guarantees die to rotom tbolt with rocks up but guarantee lives without). Otherwise this is a rather straight-forward ho team, but does struggle to get through usual suspects like celebi, zap, skarm and doesn't like stuff like suicune, pert, loom, starmie and maybe scizor unless you can finagle a way to open holes with tran (and zelf helps opens these holes if you do run it) (and these things often pair with a tran switch in, like latias, their own tran or tyranitar so having earth power may also help a lot). OTR Zong does fit with the offensive pace but tr may not actually benefit you considering your other mons are quite fast, and opponent can potentially force zong to boom without getting additional value with a steel resist (worst yet pdef jirachi can just sit on it even with eq). I think a more defensive spread goes a long way here esp against gengar and suicune (boom still kills stuff) and if you run it as a back rocker with custap or lefties you can pair with skarm (forre) lead which gives you rocks + spikes as you can really only get 1 layer of hazards with a bad / neutral lead matchup and you aren't screwed out of getting rocks at all if you run into like Azelf. Can also run metagross instead, esp spdef trick iron ball which gives you a blanket into specs latias while also giving you a potential out v skarm. Do take care that it makes you worse off into ground attacks. If you're feeling adventurous you can even go like rain zong into specs kingdra. Running a pursuit tar instead can help you eliminate latias and starmie should you face a defensive team, lefties on gyara lets you pivot into more attacks and act as a defensive check more effectively, etc.
Also shoutout to Dakophyntix for so much effort put into publishing their first team, it has interesting ideas but some parts of it doesn't quite work imo, and in light of this effort I wanna address some part of why some altercations may make the team run the mile (imo). Like the matchup list for forre:
- Azelf: You basically have to keep clicking spin to keep rocks off but it can either uturn to break your sash while you spin into their switchin, or it twaves you and wait until you get fully para and then spinblock or boom. Worst case it is fire blast and you're in trouble.
- Skarm is kinda the same except it can brave bird to chip you down while you have no recovery, or it taunts you and then just switches to a beneficial mu after breaking sash and you're in a worse position
- Emp: It's gonna hydro first because forre has spin, so do you spin to prevent t1 rocks or lay down spikes and die; and if you get hydro into spin do you just sacrifice forre or switch risking them clicking rocks on t2 (I think good players will just click rocks t2 cuz the worst thing is just that you spin on it for 2% damage)
- Other scenarios mentioned are similarly not very good for you and isn't really what you want in a lead, especially HO where you need to make good trades
I think if your primary purpose is to keep rocks off it's better to run zelf or aero for better game-to-game value but I understand the choice of forre. They also synergizes with Wacan Gyara spectacularly because it can even take STAB scarf Tbolts with rocks off (for example, it guarantees die to rotom tbolt with rocks up but guarantee lives without). Otherwise this is a rather straight-forward ho team, but does struggle to get through usual suspects like celebi, zap, skarm and doesn't like stuff like suicune, pert, loom, starmie and maybe scizor unless you can finagle a way to open holes with tran (and zelf helps opens these holes if you do run it) (and these things often pair with a tran switch in, like latias, their own tran or tyranitar so having earth power may also help a lot). OTR Zong does fit with the offensive pace but tr may not actually benefit you considering your other mons are quite fast, and opponent can potentially force zong to boom without getting additional value with a steel resist (worst yet pdef jirachi can just sit on it even with eq). I think a more defensive spread goes a long way here esp against gengar and suicune (boom still kills stuff) and if you run it as a back rocker with custap or lefties you can pair with skarm (forre) lead which gives you rocks + spikes as you can really only get 1 layer of hazards with a bad / neutral lead matchup and you aren't screwed out of getting rocks at all if you run into like Azelf. Can also run metagross instead, esp spdef trick iron ball which gives you a blanket into specs latias while also giving you a potential out v skarm. Do take care that it makes you worse off into ground attacks. If you're feeling adventurous you can even go like rain zong into specs kingdra. Running a pursuit tar instead can help you eliminate latias and starmie should you face a defensive team, lefties on gyara lets you pivot into more attacks and act as a defensive check more effectively, etc.
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Ouhh, thank you for the feedback!! I appreciate it! :)
As you've pointed out, Forretress has a lot of polarizing matchups that can lead to basically throwing it away - but it also has some very dominating ones aswell. My usual playstyle is to always ensure that the opponent's sash is broken to give my sweepers in the back an easy OHKO once Forretress has died. If that means spinning multiple times into an Empoleon / Azelf / Skarm its is perfectly fine for me, as Specs Heatran comes in for free after Forretress died and drops an Overheat onto something.. or forces a predictable boom so you can switch to Rotom.
I'm inclined to give Azelf a try, but considering that my team relies so heavily on Gyarados to check Infernape, Jirachi, Heatran and so on, rocks can not be on the field.. and Azelf speed ties can go both ways.. not to forget all the scarf Ttars, Jirachis and Roserades running around. Previously I had Aerodactyl in that slot, but same issue in grey.
Celebi, Zap, Suicune, Skarm, Swampert, Breloom, Starmie and Scizor are all indeed troublesome matchups. Any CM Suicune is horrible for this team and forces Rotom + Bronzong to trade.. but notice how all of the others are not happy to switch into Specs Heatran more than once.. with hazards off the field due to frantic rapid-spinning at the beginning of the game, Heatran can come in for free multiple times in a game and threaten to get a KO.
As for Bronzong, a huge issue for this team is LO Gengar, because Bronzong drops to two shadow balls, so I'm usually forced to sack something, but swapping Bronzong for SpD Iron Metagross sounds interesting.. not sure about a Skarm here, as it is too passive against DD Dragonite / Tyranitar / Gyarados
I like your idea for a more "balanced" team with Rain Bronzong + Specs Kingdra + Utility Ttar and Lefties gyara!
Oatmon I'm voting for Jhall's team. I enjoyed playing it.