Resource Draft League Simple Questions, Simple Answers

Nyx

Anyways - so then I cursed her.
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I lost against the first two opponents of the first round,does that mean that I am doomed to never go to the next round even if I win against the other 2 opponents?
questions regarding the tour should go in the Discord server, you’re not guaranteed to be out but, even if you win both remaining games, your fate is very much in your pool mates’ hands

is the ban list of the draft ever going to be updated? I am asking because dondozo and ting-lu are hard to break walls if you are not well prepared and they can make all shorts of defensive cores with other pokemon so there should be some way to either fully or partially ban them.
there is not a fixed ban list - it changes from tour to tour. the mons you mentioned however, are not ones that are up for discussion in the slightest, if you’re not well equipped to deal with defensive threats, you’ve probably got some issues you need to address in prep/with your draft itself
 

Lady Writer

on the tv
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I am a begginer and this is my first draft, how was I suppossed know that these 2 would be this broken when I made my team?
it is kinda smogon's fault for not making a rule that either banned 1 or both of these mons or at least prevented them from being in the same team.
also it is not like there are instructions anywhere about how to prepare a team for draft (even the instructions for most OU teams are kinda vague).
i hate to be the bearer of bad news but these two are not broken and you need to either prep better or play better to beat them
 

vmnunes

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prepare better?
it is DRAFT we are talking about. not OU.
have you forgotten that if one player takes one mon then it becomes unavailable to the other players?

how these are not broken?
a core between these 2 a dragon type and a steel type pokemon is incredibly hard to break.

if dondozo predicts an electric attack it can safely switch to ting-lu, if dondozo predicts a grass type attack it can safely switch to the dragon-type or the steel-type.
if the dragon-type or ting lu predict an ice type move they can switch to dondozo.
if the dragon-type predicts a dragon type attack it can safely switch to the steel type.
if ting-lu and the dragon type predict a fairy type move they can switch to the steel type.


this quad-pokemon core can basically resist just about everything, and in draft the pokemon whose movepool lets them to break the core may be taken by someone else.

EDIT: the only pokemon I can think that can break this awful core(or at least punch some holes to it) is iron bundle and guess what, it is currently banned.
Yes, it's very unlikely break this with a single pokemon. We're talking about a 3 to 4 pokemon core here, if it could easily be broken by a large number of single mons, then the defensive core most likely is bad. Just how the core relies on multiple pokemon, you're also probably gonna have to rely on multiple pokemon to break this (either as breaker themselves, or by setting up hazards, forcing chip and keeping momentum with u-turn/volt switch, using good stallbreaker mons since both dondozo and ting lu are vulnerable to being taunted, etc). Even accounting for snipes, a draft should have enough ways to handle defensive cores like this, otherwise, yes, it's an issue of the draft.
 

SparksBlade

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prepare better?
it is DRAFT we are talking about. not OU.
have you forgotten that if one player takes one mon then it becomes unavailable to the other players?

how these are not broken?
a core between these 2 a dragon type and a steel type pokemon is incredibly hard to break.

if dondozo predicts an electric attack it can safely switch to ting-lu, if dondozo predicts a grass type attack it can safely switch to the dragon-type or the steel-type.
if the dragon-type or ting lu predict an ice type move they can switch to dondozo.
if the dragon-type predicts a dragon type attack it can safely switch to the steel type.
if ting-lu and the dragon type predict a fairy type move they can switch to the steel type.


this quad-pokemon core can basically resist just about everything, and in draft the pokemon whose movepool lets them to break the core may be taken by someone else.

EDIT: the only pokemon I can think that can break this awful core(or at least punch some holes to it) is iron bundle and guess what, it is currently banned.
Prediction goes both ways, and you're only using examples of a player making absolutely perfect predictions all the time. Also you can still handle those mons if you're careful with your own draft. Hazard spam, status spam, some good Volt Switch/U-Turn/Flip Turn etc cores of your own, Future Sight, and planning with an effective Tera type beforehand.

Obviously in draft you don't have the luxury of preparing for every possible core but there are still ample ways to handle things. Of course this is not to say that every Pokemon's cost in this draft was absolutely what it should be? You and others can make a case for raising the cost of some Pokemon, and the host team will also have discussions of their own, but those should be based on more merit than "four other ideal partners + perfect prediction makes this Pokemon broken". You can discuss about problematic cores or just draft plans in general in our Discord server too (which I assume you're already in because you played in the first draft tour).
 

SparksBlade

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wow, you agreed my point about the core being broken.
No, their point was that a single Pokemon does not have to break a 4-mon core that you were talking about.

yes, if it could be broken with a LARGE number of pokemon then it would be bad, but it is very hard to find any pokemon that can either break it or reliably punch holes in it, and even if you find them in draft there is no guarantee that you will be lucky enough to get them.
There is no guarantee for someone to get the proclaimed ideal 4-mon core either, but even if they do there will be countermeasures that you're refusing to acknowledge and instead using excuses such as "they cannot be beaten if they predict everything perfectly"

using multiple pokemon is not always an option because this core has perfect coverage against anything and at least 2 of its parts have reliable recovery.(it can be up to all 4 if the steel type is gholdengo and the dragon type salamence.)
This is a very "on paper" reply that will not always be the same in actual practice. You keep saying that "X covers this and Y can switch into this" but the player can also make predictions, make doubles, use offbeat sets. You're diving very deep into speculation of "what if this" and "what if that" for only one player and ignoring the choices that the other player can make, and it's getting to the point where you might as well just post your ideal draft team and ask for it to be reviewed. As I said before, you can have this discussion in the Discord server.

no it does not have ways to deal with such cores,or at least not "enough" ways.
I really don't like to use this as an explanation, but here it is: in the over thousand people that participated in this draft, I believe you're the only one who has this opinion. I don't think more than 1% people complained about the costs of each Pokemon or the clauses/battle rules. And most of them have backed it with reasonable arguments and future suggestions. You on the other hand are insistent on calling a core as broken, which started as 2-mon core and then became a 4-mon core.

these 2 pokemon's "ideal partners" are each other,the steel-type and dragon type parts are easy to get since there are so many.
there is no need to fully ban these pokemon,maybe ban having them on the same team or ban their recovery options or something like that.
You've ignored the few suggestions I had, but that aside - yes there are so many Pokemon other than those too. You'll be able to find tools to play around and beat some of those cores.


I really do not mean to be rude, but this discussion has dragged on much more than it should have. The purpose of this thread is to ask simple questions that have simple straightforward answers, not to debate and discuss whether some things are broken and should be handled in a different way. For that too I encourage you to use our Discord server. I'm asking you to not continue it in this thread any further and use the more appropriate places for that conversation, while not derailing this thread.
 
Would it be possible to get a WiFi tier in the builder like we had in the old sports days? This is so that it would be easier to both build without having to add the extra 1 EV in the builder as well as not failing the autolegality for being lvl 50 when you learn the move at ie lvl 85. This is mainly a pain when you're doing mocks as those are often held on showdown while the actual league battle later happens on cart.

Best regards,
Sven
 
A lot of players getting into the draft league format may want to start their own. Does Smogon have/plan to add resources such as sample tiering or documents for coaches who want to start their own leagues?
 
A lot of players getting into the draft league format may want to start their own. Does Smogon have/plan to add resources such as sample tiering or documents for coaches who want to start their own leagues?
Theirs a thread for this (FAQ) so post this (and any further) questions there instead. This one was already answered though sometime ago so maybe ask again to see if anything's changed. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ns-simple-answers-thread.3710860/post-9412437
 

Rissoux

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Draft Leader
Would it be possible to get a WiFi tier in the builder like we had in the old sports days? This is so that it would be easier to both build without having to add the extra 1 EV in the builder as well as not failing the autolegality for being lvl 50 when you learn the move at ie lvl 85. This is mainly a pain when you're doing mocks as those are often held on showdown while the actual league battle later happens on cart.

Best regards,
Sven
I had no idea this was what the tier was for; i always saw the wifi tier and wondered what purpose it served. Is this still something you/the community would be interested in having?
I'm not sure it's as easy as making a whole different tier that's been permitted but there's no harm in asking if there's enough demand. Let me know.
 
Im hosting my own draft league (4th season) and I made this point sheet. It is important to know that you only can draft 1 pokemon with a value of 20 or more. With that being said I have 2 questions...

Is darkrai too powerful for a league like this?

do the gen 9 pokemon from 21-18 point range look right?
darkrai.png
 

Nyx

Anyways - so then I cursed her.
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Im hosting my own draft league (4th season) and I made this point sheet. It is important to know that you only can draft 1 pokemon with a value of 20 or more. With that being said I have 2 questions...

Is darkrai too powerful for a league like this?

do the gen 9 pokemon from 21-18 point range look right?
View attachment 487011
To answer the questions directly, no, Darkrai isnt too powerful and the Gen 9 Pokémon from 18-21 seem okay enough. The issue lies with, well most of the other Pokémon. To name a handful of examples, Zygarde-Complete Marshadow, Mega Salamence, Mega Lucario and Mega Kangaskhan are all objectively broken in a semi-Ubers format, and should be both far more expensive than, and in the ban discussion ahead of, Darkrai (there's definitely some other Pokémon that fit that criteria too but I just mentioned the first few I saw). Beyond that, your placement of a lot of other Pokémon, for example, Magearna and Pheromosa (both of whom are strides better than the rest of their tier and even many of the Pokémon in the tiers above) are incredibly low.

I'd suggest looking at the tier lists from some other NatDex leagues to draw some inspiration for your own tiering, I'll link a few that come to mind. While they're a few weeks-a month or so out of date at this point, they should be able to give you a general framework to based yours on
PWS - check NatDex Draft Board here
Colo - check Draft Board here
WPF - check Ice/Rock Draft Board here
WPF Rock will most likely be of the most use to you, it's an Ubers league, you can very easily take their tier list and cut it off at around 23-25 and then move Pokémon around to fit your format.
 
To answer the questions directly, no, Darkrai isnt too powerful and the Gen 9 Pokémon from 18-21 seem okay enough. The issue lies with, well most of the other Pokémon. To name a handful of examples, Zygarde-Complete Marshadow, Mega Salamence, Mega Lucario and Mega Kangaskhan are all objectively broken in a semi-Ubers format, and should be both far more expensive than, and in the ban discussion ahead of, Darkrai (there's definitely some other Pokémon that fit that criteria too but I just mentioned the first few I saw). Beyond that, your placement of a lot of other Pokémon, for example, Magearna and Pheromosa (both of whom are strides better than the rest of their tier and even many of the Pokémon in the tiers above) are incredibly low.

I'd suggest looking at the tier lists from some other NatDex leagues to draw some inspiration for your own tiering, I'll link a few that come to mind. While they're a few weeks-a month or so out of date at this point, they should be able to give you a general framework to based yours on
PWS - check NatDex Draft Board here
Colo - check Draft Board here
WPF - check Ice/Rock Draft Board here
WPF Rock will most likely be of the most use to you, it's an Ubers league, you can very easily take their tier list and cut it off at around 23-25 and then move Pokémon around to fit your format.

Thanks for the input, I'll look into moving them around. You are awesome!
 
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I know this is probably a dumb question, but can someone briefly explain what a draft league is and how it works? I clicked several pinned posts in this forum and didn't see the answer.
 

chimp

Go Bananas
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I know this is probably a dumb question, but can someone briefly explain what a draft league is and how it works? I clicked several pinned posts in this forum and didn't see the answer.
Rissoux had a great article in the Flying Press that should cover most questions beginners might have: https://www.smogon.com/articles/beginners-guide-draft

Basically, teams take turns picking Pokemon until they have a pool of around 8-12. These are the only Pokemon you may bring to your battle each week. So you have to account for what Pokemon your opponent can bring when teambuilding.
 
Hi! I'm trying to use the document to create a draft and pool board using the SV Nat Dex board and I can't figure out how to get the and I can't figure out how to connect the SV Nat Dex Board with the Draft Board. Can anyone help me?
 
Looking for a mentor to help me through the playoffs of the league I am in. Round 2 I am playing someone who is VERY good and would love some to help guide my team building towards success. I would be willing to trade discords with anyone willing to mentor me.

If you want to just give your input on the matchup i'm so worried about, I am the Metagross team. I got 6-0'd by the volcarona in the regular season. I made a few trades and pray it wont happen again.

Finally this league has a strange rule, only pokemon 9 points and under are allowed to Terastilize

1684290826044.png



1684290848208.png
 
Hi,
first of all, thank you so much for putting up the Gen 9 NatDex Draft Format for Showdown, it makes it so much easier to run a Draft League with their own rulesets. Please keep it ban-free as it is, it makes our lives so much easier. We're in fact running a season right now.

Which leads to my question: Is there a list of the new moves that have been or will be added to the format after the home update?

We don't want to allow new moves in the middle of the season, it would be unfair if only some players profited from the update. But we can't really follow through with that rule if we don't have a list.
 

Nyx

Anyways - so then I cursed her.
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Is there a list of the new moves that have been or will be added to the format after the home update?
The format hasn’t changed after the release of HOME since it was already using the HOME data coded into the base game. Kleavor’s statline has been updated though to accurately match what’s in game.
 
After asking on wpf I got advised to post this here:
So I've been recently using the Draft League Sheet Template - 16 Coaches (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Y4c5WO_kpg0NS8QtTmLE8Yklg/edit#gid=1595231857) for my own League and after noticing that not all Kills for Pokémon have been counting correctly I think I've found the mistake in the functions.
Concretely, the cells BB 2 and BC 2 in Data, which contain the formula to add up the kills/deaths for each individual pokémon only consider the first 352 rows of stats instead of the entire 960 in the columns AR and AS.
The change I've made to fix this changes the function from (excuse the German names, Im not aware of how to get it in english, I hope the point still comes across correctly)
=ARRAYFORMULA(WENN(AX2:AX353="","",SUMMEWENN(AO2:AO961&AQ2:AQ961,AV2:AV353&WECHSELN(AX2:AX353," ("&Setup!I9&")",""),AR2:AR353)))
to
=ARRAYFORMULA(WENN(AX2:AX353="","",SUMMEWENN(AO2:AO961&AQ2:AQ961,AV2:AV353&WECHSELN(AX2:AX353," ("&Setup!I9&")",""),AR2:AR962)))
(analagously for the deaths)
I hope this is correct with my rudimentary understanding of Google Docs and the Sheet.
 
Last edited:
firstly, thanks for making this update with the release of new pokes, thats helpful. secondly tho, i would like to modify the banlist and point values, is there a way for me to do this?
 

Nyx

Anyways - so then I cursed her.
is a Site Content Manageris a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
After asking on wpf I got advised to post this here:
So I've been recently using the Draft League Sheet Template - 16 Coaches (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Y4c5WO_kpg0NS8QtTmLE8Yklg/edit#gid=1595231857) for my own League and after noticing that not all Kills for Pokémon have been counting correctly I think I've found the mistake in the functions.
Concretely, the cells BB 2 and BC 2 in Data, which contain the formula to add up the kills/deaths for each individual pokémon only consider the first 352 rows of stats instead of the entire 960 in the columns AR and AS.
The change I've made to fix this changes the function from (excuse the German names, Im not aware of how to get it in english, I hope the point still comes across correctly)
=ARRAYFORMULA(WENN(AX2:AX353="","",SUMMEWENN(AO2:AO961&AQ2:AQ961,AV2:AV353&WECHSELN(AX2:AX353," ("&Setup!I9&")",""),AR2:AR353)))
to
=ARRAYFORMULA(WENN(AX2:AX353="","",SUMMEWENN(AO2:AO961&AQ2:AQ961,AV2:AV353&WECHSELN(AX2:AX353," ("&Setup!I9&")",""),AR2:AR962)))
(analagously for the deaths)
I hope this is correct with my rudimentary understanding of Google Docs and the Sheet.
Finally got around to fixing this, thanks for pointing it out.

firstly, thanks for making this update with the release of new pokes, thats helpful. secondly tho, i would like to modify the banlist and point values, is there a way for me to do this?
If you mean the template, there's a guide on how to do so on the Setup tab.
 
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