Dragon Dancing... Electivire? (Offensive)

MistaBurp

Dragon Dancing... Electivire?
An Offensive OU team, by MistaBurp


---------- Introduction ----------

To start of with... Hi Smogon! It's been a wile since I've posted my last team, and I was kinda getting tired of it anyway, so I've desited to build myself a brand new team. Lately, I'm beginning to get verry interested at more offensively orientated teams, as for me, I normally play Balanced, because it's the only decent way I can build a team. But if you never try something else you'll never know.

Stall was something I just don't wanna try, it takes the fun out of the game. My boxes are full with Balanced teams, but for me they just can't be balanced enough. I always think, what if... So playing Offensive would just keep me from doing that. Basicly because I wanna take control of the game.


---------- About this team ----------

I've just been testing it on Shoddy (I really hate Shoddy though, I always play bad on Shoddy), and I was like, I'm gonna play until I lose. And I got to play seven games, and that was kinda rewarding. And basicly, if I kept my attention I would have been able to win that seventh battle.

I think the team is kinda ok, but because it's the first time I go offense all the way, rates, hints, tips, fixes,... are always welcome, in general about building offensive teams, but also in detail about the sets...


---------- The team ----------

metagross.png

Adamant Metagross @ Lum Berry
252 HP / 236 Atk / 8 Def / 12 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash

Why Metagross?
This was the last Pokémon I picked for this team. Metagross lead is just awesome. It has the power and the typing to use in late game, and it is one of the better leads in my oppinion. Basicly this thing lures for two kind of attacks. Fire and Ground, and that is just what I wanted. If I smell Fire I go to Heatran, if I smell Ground I go to Gengar.

Some explenation work about this set:
I've changed the EV's from this set. 12 Speed in stead of 8 to outspeed all opposong Metagross Leads. I had to choose something to pick of those 4 EV's, and Defense seemed rather useless... I've picked Meteor Mash over Explosion, because I feel like that gives me better chances against most common leads. I've also tried Explosion, but as I've never got to use that move, it seems rather useless to keep that.

Synergy:
Fire: Heatran, Gyarados
Ground: Gengar, Shaymin, Gyarados

Metagross against the most common leads:
482.gif
Meteor Mash should take this Pixie to BP knock-out range, has the choice between Taunting me, setting up SR or don't take me out with a FB.
376.gif
I will always set-up my Rocks first. Then it's basicly a Switch to Gengar, who is immune to both Explosion and Earthquake.
260.gif
First turn always alows me to set up my rocks. The second turn I'll switch to Shaymin, allowing me to OHKO this thing unless he switches out, or just Exploding in his face.
385.gif
Again, SR on the first turn. If I get tricked a Scarf, that's ok, otherwise, this thing has nothing to hurt me.
142.gif
Two Bullet Punches should do it. If I don't get Taunted the first turn I just might set up my Rocks on the second turn.
392.gif
I don't fear the Fire-type move, so I'll go for Stealth Rock on the first turn (second if he goes for Fake Out), then I'll get to switch to Gyarados and maybe set-up early on.
407.gif
With the Lum Berry, this thing fears me more than I fear him. Set up the Rocks and kill this thing off.

485.gif
Kinda strange match up. SR on the first turn, and then, if he also used SR, I'll switch into Heatran to take the Fire Blast.
248.gif
Tyranitar is the best match up I can have. Always SR up, and most of the time a KO or switch advantage.
472.gif
Pretty bad match up. Best thing I can do is Explode, or go into Gengar.

gengar.png

Modest Gengar @ Choice Scarf
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power: Ice
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Why Gengar?
This thing is basicly here to take care of DDers. Awesome Revenge killer. And to be honest, he's just one of my favorite Pokémon ever.

Some explenation work about this set:
Well, as I've used the Standard Gengar alot, and as I have faced alot of Gengars, this set is unexpected. Dragon Dancers will fear this thing and will be caught by surprise. I feel like this Pokémon doesn't really add something to my team, but nor does he really need to be replaced.

Synergy:
Dark: Heatran
Ghost: Heatran
Psychic: Metagross, Heatran

heatran.png

Timid Heatran @ Leftovers
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Subsitute
- Toxic

Why Heatran:
Heatran can be saw as the glue for this team. Scouts out for Bulky waters to threaten Gyarados, will always be switched out upon, so gets up a free subsitute, that might be usefull to Toxic Vaporeon and Suicune switch in, and opens the gate for Gyarados (luring for a Ground or Fighting attack).

Some explenation work about this set:
This is just the best Heatran set there is. As I don't mind the opponent switching out (always allows me to get up a sub), because a switch out is basicly what I want to happen.

Synergy:
Fighting: Gengar, Gyarados
Ground: Gengar, Shaymin, Gyarados

shaymin.png

Modest Shaymin @ Choice Specs
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power: Fire
- Earth Power
- Rest

Why Shaymin (and not Celebi)?
Well, why the hell isn't this thing OU? I was a little sceptic about this one, but goddamnit, this thing is so powerfull and usefull to this team. Basicly, I didn't wanna get Pursuited to death, and I wanted to kill Bulky Waters, without showing I have Electivire in my team. Seed Flare is just pure epicness, as it does even great amount of damage (about 30% I think) to Scizor. Also, Shaymin is just a verry nice status adsorber, something I really like (cuz Burn can really hurt Electivire and Gyarados).

Some explenation work about this set:
The Specs really makes this thing a mean (lol) killing machine. Seed Flare is really epic, as it does so much damage combined with great accuracy and no stat lowering changes to Celebi! HP: Fire is for opposing Grass types, and mainly Scizor. Earth Power just improves coverage. And Rest + Natural Cure is awesone

Synergy:
Bug: Gengar, Heatran, Gyarados
Fire: Heatran, Gyarados
Ice: Metagross, Heatran

gyarados.png

Jolly Gyarados @ Leftovers
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Waterfall

Why Gyarados?
Well, when building this team, I was thinking about the almost forgotten Electivire. Who is easy to set up, by luring for an Electric Attack, and who is better at luring for that, then Gyarados? Well yea, no one. Basicly, this wil happen: I get to send in Gyarados verry early in the game and scout of his counter (bulky waters and electrics), and if he has neither of them, I can sweep with Gyarados, if he has bulky waters Shaymin takes care of that, and if he has Electrics, Electivire will happily switch in. The second scenario contains some more scouting (most of the time this depends on the opponents lead), eliminating threats by using the rest of my team, and then sweep with Gyarados or Electivire (if he still has an Electric left).

Some explenation work about this set:
Switches in on something that is doomed to switch out facing Gyarados, and then DD's and looks what needs to be done (switching to Electivire or Shaymin, or sweep of its own). The Jolly nature I use to outspeed Max Speed Jolteon without a Scarf. I picked Stone Edge over Ice Fang, because Heatran and Shaymin, and even Electivire have Ice Attacks.

Synergy:
Electric: Shaymin, Electivire
Rock: Metagross

electivire.png

Mild Electivire @ Expert Belt
36 Atk / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power: Ice
- Cross Chop
- Flamethrower

Why Electivire:
Well, he is to underestimated. Acceptable Speed combined with Good Attack, and an ability that increases his Speed if executed correctly. Most of the time, my opponent doesn't even get to see him, because the rest of the team does his job fairly well. But when he is played correctly, you'll fear him!

Some explenation work about this set:
Well, to start of with, Expert Belt extends my possible sweep, and this moveset can deal Super Effective Damage to most of the Pokémon in the overused tier (underused probably as well). The EV's and Nature speak for themself. The same with the moveset.

Synergy:
Ground: Gengar, Shaymin, Gyarados


---------- Afterword ----------

I feel like this team really has potential, but I do wanna mention certain things.

Ground weakness:
You will most likely have noticed I have 3 ground weak Pokémon. I'm aware of that as well, but I think Gyarados and Gengar, and even Shaymin provide well enough coverage.

Certain Pokémon weakness:
The odds are there that my team has a weakness to a certain Pokémon, for example SD Luke (although I don't think thats true, it's just an example). Please note that I wanna be in control of the game, and I wanna be my oponent one step ahead. But then again, you may surely suggest an alternative that will undo this weakness.

Metagross vs. Heatran lead:
I was really doubting between a Metagross and a Heatran lead. But I think Metagross is beter.

Questions from me:
How would you descibe this team: Offensive, Bulky Offensive, All Out Offensive (, Stall, Defensive,...)?

Comment, Fix, Rate, Steal,...
​
 
I think that HP Ice is pointless on ScarfTran. Dragon Pulse rounds off your neutral coverage perfectly, is more powerful, does enough to KO most Salamence and Dragonite, and does more to Latias. Everything that resists Dragon pulse resists HP Ice, pretty much (bar skarmory.)

I think mixed electivire is more effective unless you make a particular effort to remove Swampert and other physical walls. With the higher BP of thunderbolt, the difference in power is really not that noticable.

Your gengar set is strange. I think you want Focus Blast rather than Focus punch. You are unlikely to kill any scizor any more with protect, so you may as well try substitute Gengar. This will help you to beat ScarfTar in addition to Scizor. I would suggest changing to leftovers, although you could try running Sub+Pain split gengar with Life Orb.

Your team has big trouble with a number of threats too, including DDmence and DDgyrados. You could make Gengar your scarfer (or use Scarf Latias) instead of heatran to solve this. You could try a trapper heatran set to remove swampert, Latias and other threats to Electivire and Gyarados.

Air Slash gives almost no additional coverage to Shaymin (heracross being the notable exception). You could try rest as with natural cure this is a reliable recovery option, or you could run HP fire instead of HP ice.

Good luck

(oh and by the way absorb and adsorb are two very different words. You want absorb)
 
Hey what up Mista, I've gotten a message that you wanted your team rated so here it is.

Metagross: Well the EVs look complety fine since you explained your reasons, the thing you have to change is Earthquake into Explosion it'll help against swampert and just other leads you can take on, you might have a problem with some walls and it just does overall good against bulky waters.

Gengar: Now what I've noticed about your team is that you can get swept by common Dragon dancers like Salamence and Gyarados which could be one of of the many problems you could be having. Plus I see a pokemon that can be helping you a lot since it resists most of the things gengar resists and it also has a better typing to this set then gengar, since I'm trying to make this current pokemon scarfed and since it's pursuit weak you're going to die to 1 pursuit if you stay or switch out from the popular pursuiters which is Scizor and Tyranitar. So I'm sure you should change your mysticgar with ScarfLatias to help against problems like Salamence, Gyarados, Kingdra, etc. I'm going to make it scarfed so you can outspeed those pokemon with 1 dragon dance, so here's the moveset and EVs:

Latias @ Choice scarf
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Moveset: Draco Meteor, Surf, Trick, Thunderbolt

Moveset is simple, Draco Meteor for dragon types. Surf is for incoming Tyranitars if you see it coming, Trick is to stop a sweep you know you can't handle currently with the moveset you have. Thunderbolt is for water types like Gyarados.

Shaymin: The problem I find with this is that a stall team can really break through this shaymin, more likely Blissey since it can take those Seed flares probably like a beast, Can't do more though. The Shaymin is also pretty slow, and if Blissey has Flamethrower it can do a ton of damage to it. So what I recommend you to change is one move which you might want to change Hidden power Ice into Rest so you can regain all the HP in a stall team, or just in general.

Heatran: You said you don't really mind Heatrans item which is great since I think Scarftran is outdated and there's plenty of more good sets that can trick other players. With your team currently you don't really need a scarfer at all, you just need something that doesn't have a choice item that could still hit pretty hard. I say the Subsitute tran fits your team greatly, the reason being is that Blissey won't be annoying to you and you also can just Toxistall anything away that came in to resist something that was predictable, I find this set to be good for your team.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Moveset: Subsitute, Fire Blast, Earth Power, Toxic

Movesets pretty simple, Subsitute is to block status or just seeing what will the other play do next. Fire Blast is for Lucario, Metagross, Jirachi, Skarmorys etc, most steel types. Earthpower is for Tyranitars and other Trans. Toxic as I said is for Blissey and to ruin other walls, could be great.

Gyarados: I don't think you really need Life orb since it could be suicide with SR and sandstorm if it affects you. So you might want to change Life orb into Leftovers can regain some HP.

Electivire: I find it currently fine, one thing you have to change is Cross chop into Fire punch reason being is that 80% is unreliable and You already have Earthquake mostly carries on the same pokemon, like Heatran, Tyranitar.

Good luck with the team hope my analysis helped.
 
MYSTICgar is nice as a surprise, but horribly flawed in one point: See, if anyone sees a gengar use protect, they will switch out. This is because the only gengar standard that uses protect is MYSTICgar. HP/explosion and focus Blast would be better.

Adamant on gyrados. +2 outspeeds most stuff, and you need the power to beat neutral things.
 
Another suggestion for Gengar would be Substitute over Protect. The opponent will most likely send in Tyranitar or Scizor, and from there you can get a free Sub on the switch and KO with Focus Punch or HP Fire.

For Shaymin-
Priority is common in OU, as well as Heatran and Infernape. Shaymin (Specs) lacks the speed to kill some of these threats, so you might want to change it to Scarf or just use a set with Rest for recovery.

Just some minor changes here, I might give a longer rate in the future.
 
Hello,

I got your PM and will gladly do my best to help you with your team.
First of all, this is a fairly good team and I definitely see potential. However I also think there are some things you cold improve in order to play the team to its strength.
First to your threats: DD Salamence will really ruin your team. If it gets in one DD (which it will), it ohkoes each single member of your team. Another threat is DD Tyranitar. Again, after 1 DD it can almost ohko everything in your team. A third problem for you is any type of Latias. No single member of your team is able to effectively check it. If Latias is a CM version, Heatran won't be able to kill it with Dragon Pulse. If it's an offensive choiced version, it can spam Draco Meteors and other attacks and each time safely switch out as you don't have a pursuiter. Gengar could theoretically hurt it but the imperfect speed EVs mean it is slower most of the time. Your only hope will be Metagross, who is your lead and will probably be weakened when Latias starts his sweep.
Now to my suggestions:
Metagross: Metagross is a great lead for offensive teams. However I would really suggest Lum Berry over Occa and Explosion over Earthquake. The combination of Occa and EQ is mainly there to hit Infernape and Heatran leads. But these two will still beat you all the time, so in my opinion Occa-EQ is useless. Lum Berry ensures you win against all sleeper leads like Roserade and Smeargle, so you will get rocks up which is really important for an offensive team like yours. Explosion just seems to be the better option for a heavy offense team and it is almost guaranteed to kill something as a last resort (actually Metagross' Explosion is one of the strongest moves in the whole game).
Gyarados: Your set is fine. You could however consider using Ice Fang over Stone Edge or EQ because you will then be able to ohko offensive latias after DD, as well as 2hko Celebi. Maybe you should test it, the choice is up to you.
Electivire: Your set is fine if you want to stay with the pure physical version. You could also try the Mixed version, which has the potential to sweep even more effectively.
Electivire@ExpertBelt
Mild-252SpAtk, 220Spe, 36Atk
-Thunder Bolt
-HP Ice/Grass
-Cross Chop
-Flamethrower
Gengar: As I like MysticGar and you said you also do, I wouldn't suggest changes here. It is a solid choice for your team.
EDIT: I just read you use Focus Punch on Gengar. I think you mean Focus BLAST, because with 0Atk EVs and Timid nature Focus Punch makes no sense. Change it to Focus Blast.
Heatran, Shaymin: Well, I think you should change something here. Your team really needs a better revenge killer or something else to check DD Mence and Latias. What I would suggest is making Heatran your hard hitting Specs pokemon and changing Shaymin to Scarf Jirachi. Heatran will still be able to lure in waters and can hit them for the 2hko with HP Grass. Specs Overheat will 2hko most Latias! Jirachi will at the same time be able to revenge DD Mence, TTar and latias and it can also use Trick to cripple certain Walls or to render bulky stat uppers like crocune and Curse Lax useless (who can really give you trouble without a phazer).
Heatran@Choice Specs
Modest-252SpAtk, 252Spe, 4HP
-Overheat
-HP Grass
-Earth Power
-Dragon Pulse/Explosion

Jirachi@Choice Scarf
Jolly-252Spe, 252Atk, 4 HP
-Iron Head
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-Trick/U-Turn/ThunderPunch

I hope I could help. Don't hesitate to ask me again if there are some questions left. Good Luck!
 
Abutorn said:
Gengar: Now what I've noticed about your team is that you can get swept by common Dragon dancers like Salamence and Gyarados which could be one of of the many problems you could be having. Plus I see a pokemon that can be helping you a lot since it resists most of the things gengar resists and it also has a better typing to this set then gengar, since I'm trying to make this current pokemon scarfed and since it's pursuit weak you're going to die to 1 pursuit if you stay or switch out from the popular pursuiters which is Scizor and Tyranitar. So I'm sure you should change your mysticgar with ScarfLatias to help against problems like Salamence, Gyarados, Kingdra, etc. I'm going to make it scarfed so you can outspeed those pokemon with 1 dragon dance, so here's the moveset and EVs:

Latias @ Choice scarf
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Moveset: Draco Meteor, Surf, Trick, Thunderbolt

Moveset is simple, Draco Meteor for dragon types. Surf is for incoming Tyranitars if you see it coming, Trick is to stop a sweep you know you can't handle currently with the moveset you have. Thunderbolt is for water types like Gyarados.
Click to expand...

I actually disagree with Abutorn a little bit. I agree that Latias would help your synergy a little bit, but you wanted Gengar to lure in Scizor for a swift KO. That ScarfLatias set does not do the job that you wanted Gengar to initially do. So to keep Gengar's primary job in mind, I will suggest using Bait Latias over that ScarfLatias. The EVs and moveset are the same. The only difference is the item. Use Expert Belt over Scarf. The EVs and nature help bluff a Scarf since Latias w/o Scarf will still outspeed the same shit a Scarf one would that don't have their own Scarves.

Other than that, good luck!
 
When I saw Dragon Dancing + Electivire, I was thinking +1 Atk, +1 Speed, which made me assume this would be a Meditate Electivire. Seeing as Gyarados loves to attract Scarfed Pokemon like Latias and Rotom, it seems like a perfect set for this situation:

Adamant Electivire @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~ Meditate
~ ThunderPunch
~ Ice Punch
~ Earthquake / Low Kick

With Meditate and an electric attack on Electivire, you would pretty much get a free DD. Thunderpunch is for stab, Ice Punch is for Gliscor, Dragons, and Celebi. Earthquake hits Steels and Low Kick may seem strange when you have access to Cross Chop, but Low Kick has 100% accuracy and achieves all the necessary kills after a Meditate boost. You can effectively 2HKO Blissey, OHKO Mamoswine and Snorlax while nabbing KOs on Registeel, Regirock, and Steelix if you ever run into them.

Overall, the team looks good with lots of synergy
 
Misa Campo said:
I actually disagree with Abutorn a little bit. I agree that Latias would help your synergy a little bit, but you wanted Gengar to lure in Scizor for a swift KO. That ScarfLatias set does not do the job that you wanted Gengar to initially do. So to keep Gengar's primary job in mind, I will suggest using Bait Latias over that ScarfLatias. The EVs and moveset are the same. The only difference is the item. Use Expert Belt over Scarf. The EVs and nature help bluff a Scarf since Latias w/o Scarf will still outspeed the same shit a Scarf one would that don't have their own Scarves.

Other than that, good luck!
Click to expand...

If Scizor Bullet punches, it's not really doing its job, It's gonna switch out. Unless he's predicting on switch to a pursuiter when you're seeing a Scizor coming in but it's really TTar it could be a problem. Still, the reason I bought in Latias is that his team will get swept my common Dragon dancers, but Bait Latias doesn't clarify to outspeed Salamence with one Dragon dance. He already has pokemon to take care of pursuiters, he doesn't really need to sacrafice a pokemon to still uncover his huge other problem. Bluffing won't help all the time, since it still doesn't guarante the switch. So I'll keep my recommendation of keeping the scarf.
 
Hi Smogon, to start with, thank you guys for all the replies!

I'm gonna go Pokémon by Pokémon and go to a final conclusion, and then edit my post. Afterwards you can still comment, ofcourse.

Metagross: I'm gonna go for Explosion over Earthquake and I also do like the Lum Berry idea.

Gengar: To start of with, yea I ment FOCUS BLAST in stead of FOCUS PUNCH! Everyone makes mistakes. The oppinions about MYSTICgengar in this team are kinda different, bus mostly Scarf Latias was suggested, and I agree with the arguments. Really to bad because Gengar is way cooler then Latias, so I'm gonna try a ScarfGengar first, as no one expects that, and it can basicly do the same. (+ it can take an Explosion, from Metagross leads).

Heatran: Some guys suggested some basic changes, but I like the SubTran idea alot! I've been dying to use this guy, but in the teams I've posted here earlier I've been suggested to use ScarfTran. Gonna go for SubTran.

Shaymin: I'm gonna keep the Specs, it just hits Vaporeon and Suicure to hard! I might consider Rest over Air Slash and go for HP Fire in stead of HP Ice.

Gyarados: When playing on Shoddy, I really felt like I should go for Leftovers, because the Life Orbs tears down Gyarados to fast. I'm also agreeing with Ice Fang over Stone Edge.

Electivire: Again, everybody taught something else... But I'm gonna try out mixed Electivire, because after a Speed boost, I really don't wanna switch out against Physical Walls like Hippowdon.

Thanks for the rates, new rates and fixes are still welcome... BTW, no one answered my question so I'm gonna repeat:
How would you descibe this team: Offensive, Bulky Offensive, All Out Offensive (, Stall, Defensive,...)?
 
Hi,

First of all I'm glad my first post already helped you.
Second, to answer your repeated question: Your team definitely belongs to the category 'Offense' (so neither 'Stall' or 'Balanced'). It is not an 'All Out Offense' because you will actually make switches and predictions. It can't really be called 'Bulky offense' either I think... So it will be something in between.
The changes you made look quite good, I think they will improve your team. Using Scarf Gengar or Latias as your revenge killer is viable. The main reasons why I suggested other changes (keep Gengar, Scarf Jirachi over Shaymin, Specs on Heatran) are the omnipresent Pursuit and your problems with SD Lucario and SD Scizor. So let's see:
With Scarf Gengar: It is easily pursuited. Then DD Tyranitar, SD Lucario and DD Salamence finish the rest of your team. If Gengar has not been pursuited it has to rely on the 70% Focus Blast to kill DD Tyranitar and SD Lucario. If it misses, you're screwed. Also SD Scizor easily runs through your team as soon as Gyarados got weakened.
With Scarf Latias: Same Pursuit problem. Same SD Scizor problem. Also you will get major SD Lucario problems. Latias is not even capable of revenge killing DD Tyranitar.
With Scarf Jirachi and Specs Heatran: You keep a hard hitting specs user (Heatran even hits harder), keep your Gengar as your non-choiced special attacker and Jirachi takes care of all threats. It easily outruns DD tyranitar even after DD and kills with Iron Head. It also at least ties with DD Mence and kills with Ice Punch (preferably while mence is locked into outrage. It reliably revenges SD Scizor and SD Lucario with Fire Punch. In my opinion this is the superior choice. The only disadvantage of Jirachi is its vulnerability to Magnezone when locked into Iron Head or Ice Punch. However I think the pursuit issue is a bigger threat. Remember that the most common pursuit users are the two most used pokemon of all in OU, while you won't see too many Magnezones.

Hope I could help again. Good Luck !
 
Aircraft Cemetery said:
Hi,

First of all I'm glad my first post already helped you.
Second, to answer your repeated question: Your team definitely belongs to the category 'Offense' (so neither 'Stall' or 'Balanced'). It is not an 'All Out Offense' because you will actually make switches and predictions. It can't really be called 'Bulky offense' either I think... So it will be something in between.
The changes you made look quite good, I think they will improve your team. Using Scarf Gengar or Latias as your revenge killer is viable. The main reasons why I suggested other changes (keep Gengar, Scarf Jirachi over Shaymin, Specs on Heatran) are the omnipresent Pursuit and your problems with SD Lucario and SD Scizor. So let's see:
With Scarf Gengar: It is easily pursuited. Then DD Tyranitar, SD Lucario and DD Salamence finish the rest of your team. If Gengar has not been pursuited it has to rely on the 70% Focus Blast to kill DD Tyranitar and SD Lucario. If it misses, you're screwed. Also SD Scizor easily runs through your team as soon as Gyarados got weakened.
With Scarf Latias: Same Pursuit problem. Same SD Scizor problem. Also you will get major SD Lucario problems. Latias is not even capable of revenge killing DD Tyranitar.
With Scarf Jirachi and Specs Heatran: You keep a hard hitting specs user (Heatran even hits harder), keep your Gengar as your non-choiced special attacker and Jirachi takes care of all threats. It easily outruns DD tyranitar even after DD and kills with Iron Head. It also at least ties with DD Mence and kills with Ice Punch (preferably while mence is locked into outrage. It reliably revenges SD Scizor and SD Lucario with Fire Punch. In my opinion this is the superior choice. The only disadvantage of Jirachi is its vulnerability to Magnezone when locked into Iron Head or Ice Punch. However I think the pursuit issue is a bigger threat. Remember that the most common pursuit users are the two most used pokemon of all in OU, while you won't see too many Magnezones.

Hope I could help again. Good Luck !
Click to expand...
The main problem, when switching Jirachi for Shaymin, is that my ground weakness goes from 3 weak and 3 resist/immune, to 4 weak and 2 immune... Also, ScarfJirachi and DD Mence (both at +speed nature) tie in speed, and thats kinda a big risc.
 
MistaBurp said:
The main problem, when switching Jirachi for Shaymin, is that my ground weakness goes from 3 weak and 3 resist/immune, to 4 weak and 2 immune... Also, ScarfJirachi and DD Mence (both at +speed nature) tie in speed, and thats kinda a big risc.
Click to expand...

There is no real need to have 3 ground resists its far more important to have dragon resists and a check for Jirachi. Jirachi also has more utility then shaymin as it can check multiple threats. Shaymin on the other hand allows the opposition to set up on you: Skarmory and Spikes and DD Mence. The thing about this is taht Suicune becomes a bit of a problem but its a tradeoff, mence for suicune. I would be inclined to switch gengar for Jirachi, as it is simply a better revenge killer in that it is not pursuit weak. If you do run naive and use Thunderbolt over TPunch. Hope this helps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top