Dragonite: Not so bad?

[Kietharr]

Well, I've always thought Salamence looked retarded, so ever since getting D/P and started building teams to win (which hasn't been long admittedly), I have desprately been looking for a way to effectively use one over salamence, without him being used as a shittier version of sala.

This thought came to mind, the only thing Dnite has going for him over Salamence and Garchomp is a fucking gigantic movepool and better defenses, defenses won't matter because his x4 ice weakness is enough to exclude the possibility of him defending. So, why not try to abuse that movepool?

Dragonite, timid nature, 252 sp. atk, 128spd 128hp @ lefties or expert belt
Thunderbolt/Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Flamethrower/Dragon Pulse
Agility

After one agility he is outspeeding pretty much everything out there, even though the EV spread is far from optimal, and with his respectable sp. atk he will be doing quite a bit of damage until they figure you out. Switch him in on a special wall, they'll probably switch into somthing like skarmory or zong expecting an outrage, get your free agility in then go to town. Good counters to this set include choice scarfed weavile or jolteon (who the hell CS's either of those?) or a blissey dumb enough to stay in against dragonite and twave/toss it. Flamethrower in a slot if you're afraid of zong, otherwise it's not needed. I have really grown to hate his floating ass.

This is another weird one, a bit of a spin on specsmence/scarfchomp

Dragonite, the +spd -def or sp. def nature, can't remember the name :/, 252 sp. atk, 252 spd 4hp @ choice scarf
Focus Punch/EQ
Draco Meteor/Ice Beam
Flamethrower
Thunder Bolt

This is ment to be an opener, counters and outspeeds most openers out there, though I THINK Jolteon may be faster even after +spd nature and 252 EVs, but dragonite's defenses should hold unless it's carrying HPice. Focus punch against switchers, meteor for mence, tbolt for bulkydos, flamethrower for Weavile. This set may not work to counter Weavile if it is focus sashing and ice punches instead of taking a predicted free swords dance. Take EQ over focus punch if you don't have good prediction skills, and Ice beam will probably work more effectively against mence in that slot, but draco offers wider coverage. He won't exactly work well as a late game sweeper though, but the main point of this set is to suprise your enemy and get you off to a good start.

I have not tried either set in battle yet, but I have a couple of good dratinis around to test em out if nobody can pick out any giant crippling flaws immediately. Admittedly, I don't have a lot of experience, so any criticisms are appreciated, got a lot to improve on in set building, especially EVs. The main thing these sets will have going for them is unpredictability, nobody really suspects a dragonite of doing anything but outrage dancing from what i've seen.

 

[JTX.PWNY.CR3W]

I run a DD dragonite

Dragonite@Life Orb
Adamant Nature
252 atk 252 spd 4 hp
Dragon dance
Outrage
Firepunch
Earthquake

Works wonders for me. DD+Life Orb on top of a monstorous 120 base power attack With stab.....

It's pretty good. I always bring him out late to mid game when I can get a safe DD down and enough HP to sweep.

 

[Pheonix Gamma]

I personally use a Physical Dragonite, with Substitute, Focus Punch, Outrage, and Fire Punch.

I found him to be a reliable Pokemon, as his attacks tend to be really fierce, even at neutral, and I played with his Def., Sp. Def, and Speed EVs for awhile, and now he's got moderate speed and can take a hit. He saved me in a lot of battles.

 

[Blackbeltsam]

I run a cleric Dragonite

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Quiet, 252 HP, 80 SP. Attack, 88 Def, 88 Sp. Def

Heal Bell
Thunder Wave
Roost
Draco Meteor

Unexpected, to say the least. I wish the nature coulda been better though. Stupid XD.

 

[obi]

DD + Outrage + Life Orb (or Yache Berry) is my absolute favorite Dragonite set. It's even more beastly if you toss up a Light Screen before bringing in Dragonite. If you really want to cause havoc, use Light Screen on something that can Explode, for instance the ultimate set up Pokemon for Dragonite is probably Claydol with Rapid Spin (no more Stealth Rock), Reflect, Light Screen, Explosion (in that order usually) to get in Dragonite behind both screens to give it enough time to set up. DD twice, and it's pretty much gg with a Life Orb equipped. Only Ice Shard stuff can really give you trouble, and even then a lot of the time it won't OHKO thanks to Dragonite's decent defensive stats.

 

[Pheonix Gamma]

DD + Outrage + Life Orb (or Yache Berry) is my absolute favorite Dragonite set. It's even more beastly if you toss up a Light Screen before bringing in Dragonite. If you really want to cause havoc, use Light Screen on something that can Explode, for instance the ultimate set up Pokemon for Dragonite is probably Claydol with Rapid Spin (no more Stealth Rock), Reflect, Light Screen, Explosion (in that order usually) to get in Dragonite behind both screens to give it enough time to set up. DD twice, and it's pretty much gg with a Life Orb equipped. Only Ice Shard stuff can really give you trouble, and even then a lot of the time it won't OHKO thanks to Dragonite's decent defensive stats.

That's brilliant. I have to try that out.

 

[Dragontamer]

If you haven't read of my tier system, basically one point is about a 10% difference in damage. So a score of 121 will take 10% less %damage than a score of 120. Ex: A score of 120 may take 30% damage from some generic attack, while a score of 121 will only take 27% damage. A score of 122 will take 24.3% damage and a score of 123 will take 21.87% damage.

So as far as defenses are concerned, here are the tier scores of the various dragons:

Dragonite 122.91 123.27 118.47 118.92
Garchomp 123.80 123.04 119.52 118.54
Salamence 121.97 121.97 117.23 117.23

Okay, so format is in this order: 255/255 Defense-Score, 255/255 Special Defense score, 0/0 Defense score, 0/0 Special defense score.

So Garchomp is #1 in both 255/255 Defenses and 0/0 defenses. In Special Defense, Dragonite is #1 in both catagories. Salamence is worst in both special and physical, but comes with Intimidate which raises his score by 4.25 on the physical defenses. So if Salamence is switching in, effectively his physical defense scores are 126.22 and 121.48 (max and min EV spreads respectively)

Garchomp doesn't have access to Roost, but he isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Dragonite does have higher physical attack than Garchomp... and of course the massive movepool.

What I'm trying to say is... I disagree on the higher defenses part :-p In terms of physical defenses, Garchomp's superior HP makes his physical defenses higher than Dragonites, with only a slight loss in special defenses. And Salamence's physical defenses... at least on the switch in or when leading... are higher because of intimidate.

But yes, I agree that Dragonite's options are massive. He is the only dragon that is capable of having a support moveset. Thunder wave, roar and light screen. I think there are better pokemon to do it... but thunder wave ought to help with its speed at least.

DD + Outrage + Life Orb (or Yache Berry) is my absolute favorite Dragonite set. It's even more beastly if you toss up a Light Screen before bringing in Dragonite. If you really want to cause havoc, use Light Screen on something that can Explode, for instance the ultimate set up Pokemon for Dragonite is probably Claydol with Rapid Spin (no more Stealth Rock), Reflect, Light Screen, Explosion (in that order usually) to get in Dragonite behind both screens to give it enough time to set up. DD twice, and it's pretty much gg with a Life Orb equipped. Only Ice Shard stuff can really give you trouble, and even then a lot of the time it won't OHKO thanks to Dragonite's decent defensive stats.

That really does sound good, not just for setting up a DD dragonite, but really for setting anything up. Probably not good enough for a Belly-Drum set-up but that can be really used for anything from swords dance to DD Dragonite.

 

[JTX.PWNY.CR3W]

If you haven't read of my tier system, basically one point is about a 10% difference in damage. So a score of 121 will take 10% less %damage than a score of 120. Ex: A score of 120 may take 30% damage from some generic attack, while a score of 121 will only take 27% damage. A score of 122 will take 24.3% damage and a score of 123 will take 21.87% damage.

So as far as defenses are concerned, here are the tier scores of the various dragons:

Dragonite 122.91 123.27 118.47 118.92
Garchomp 123.80 123.04 119.52 118.54
Salamence 121.97 121.97 117.23 117.23

Okay, so format is in this order: 255/255 Defense-Score, 255/255 Special Defense score, 0/0 Defense score, 0/0 Special defense score.

So Garchomp is #1 in both 255/255 Defenses and 0/0 defenses. In Special Defense, Dragonite is #1 in both catagories. Salamence is worst in both special and physical, but comes with Intimidate which raises his score by 4.25 on the physical defenses. So if Salamence is switching in, effectively his physical defense scores are 126.22 and 121.48 (max and min EV spreads respectively)

Garchomp doesn't have access to Roost, but he isn't weak to Stealth Rock. Dragonite does have higher physical attack than Garchomp... and of course the massive movepool.

What I'm trying to say is... I disagree on the higher defenses part :-p In terms of physical defenses, Garchomp's superior HP makes his physical defenses higher than Dragonites, with only a slight loss in special defenses. And Salamence's physical defenses... at least on the switch in or when leading... are higher because of intimidate.

Then again, all that Dragonite lost is ~20 base points in speed :-/

Too bad Garchomp can't Dragon Dance

Also Elemental Punches > Elemental Fangs.

 

[Dragontamer]

Yeah, I edited some stuff. I usually edit my posts because they don't make as much sense on the first draft.

And I never claimed that Garchomp can DD. Also, if Garchomp is going physical, his only elemental fang is going to be fire. Earthquake, Outrage/Dragon Claw, Rock Slide/Stone Edge covers everything else he needs. (Only those dumb *EDIT: levitating* steel types get in the way)

 

[Pheonix Gamma]

And I never claimed Draggie's defenses were superior to the other dragons :E

It's worth mentioning that a Smeargle with Belly Drum, Baton Pass, Substitute, and a Salac Berry is a good setup as well.

 

[Roy]

And I never claimed Draggie's defenses were superior to the other dragons :E

It's worth mentioning that a Smeargle with Belly Drum, Baton Pass, Substitute, and a Salac Berry is a good setup as well.

it's worth mentioning that passing all that to [physical attacking pokemon] is a good set up.

 

[chocobattler]

I like the staying power, so I run DD+Outrage+Lum, I'm also protected against other status conditions, which would wreak havoc far more than a little confusion. I might consider replacing Donphan with Claydol....