Ambipom
Lilligant
Meloetta
Lilligant
Meloetta
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Dream World CCAT (Signups for laddering!)
- Thread starter Harsha
- Start date
Meloetta
Empoleon
Feraligatr
Empoleon
Feraligatr
Meloetta
Amoongus
Amoongus
Meloetta
Meloetta
Amoonguss
Gengar
Amoonguss
Gengar
Alakazam
Meloetta
Empoleon
Meloetta
Empoleon
Voters have chosen Meloetta to build around! Now we choose what type of team we will be making. The options are hyper offense, heavy offense, bulky offense, stall (lol), and weather offense. Please nominate one type of team and 2-4 teammates with descriptions of why they would help. This will go on for two weeks, and you are free to discuss in this thread!!
Hmm, I think weather (rain) offense would be interesting as Meloetta could abuse a Serene Grace Thunder > Thunderbolt. That 60% paralysis rate would allow it to support the rest of the team, which is cool. Although im not quite sure which Politoed set would be the best option at the momment. I'm thinking perhaps a bulky set with Scald and Encore to assist any set-up or switching in. I'll think about it, but for now I'll nom Zoroark:
Zoroark @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive nature
- Dark Pulse / Night Daze
- Focus Blast
- U-turn / Taunt
- Sucker Punch
Zoroark + Meloetta is a pretty cool combo i've seen on the ladder a couple of times. Zoroark can dispose of Ghost-types, which Meloetta hates, as they are immune to Close Combat, and prevent her from switching formes as they are also immune to Relic Song. Zoroark also deals with bulky Psychic-types such as Reuniclus and Latias, which Meloetta has trouble getting past. In return, Meloetta can quickly get rid of Blissey / Chansey with Close Combat. I like the mixed set as Sucker Punch often catches Gengar off guard when your disguised as Meloetta. I listed Expert Belt as an option in case we really want to effectively feign Meloetta. No Flamethrower because of rain so I guess Taunt or U-turn are the next best options.
Edit: adding Scarf Politoed for reasons Harsha pointed out and the Forretress that CP posted to my ballot. Forretress would go great with Zoroark as Zoroark can can surprise kill Ghost-types disguised as Meloetta, leaving Forry free to spin.
Forretress @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake / Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Grass
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
So yeah my noms are:
Zoroark @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Trait: Illusion
EVs: 32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive nature
- Dark Pulse / Night Daze
- Focus Blast
- U-turn / Taunt
- Sucker Punch
Zoroark + Meloetta is a pretty cool combo i've seen on the ladder a couple of times. Zoroark can dispose of Ghost-types, which Meloetta hates, as they are immune to Close Combat, and prevent her from switching formes as they are also immune to Relic Song. Zoroark also deals with bulky Psychic-types such as Reuniclus and Latias, which Meloetta has trouble getting past. In return, Meloetta can quickly get rid of Blissey / Chansey with Close Combat. I like the mixed set as Sucker Punch often catches Gengar off guard when your disguised as Meloetta. I listed Expert Belt as an option in case we really want to effectively feign Meloetta. No Flamethrower because of rain so I guess Taunt or U-turn are the next best options.
Edit: adding Scarf Politoed for reasons Harsha pointed out and the Forretress that CP posted to my ballot. Forretress would go great with Zoroark as Zoroark can can surprise kill Ghost-types disguised as Meloetta, leaving Forry free to spin.
Forretress @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake / Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Grass
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
So yeah my noms are:
- rain offense
[*]Choice Scarf Scarf Politoed
[*]Mixed Zoroark
[*]Specially Defensive Forretress
I think we should do Bulky Offense. The nature of Meloetta's attacking style is relatively bulky anyway (i.e. Calm Mind / SubCM), so providing hazard users and spin support is very helpful for nabbing a few extra KOes and avoid hazards in the first place. This will also help Meloetta's fellow offensive teammates. Two teammates I would like to nominate are Deoxys-S and Donphan. Deoxys-S can set up Spikes and Stealth Rock with ease and it can also use Taunt to prevent the opponent from setting up their own. Donphan would make a fantastic partner to Meloetta because it has excellent Defense and can take most any physical attack, while Meloetta has incredible Special Defense, so they would partner well. Here is the sets:
Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly / Timid
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Taunt / Magic Coat
Fire Punch / ExtremeSpeed / Shadow Ball
Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Nature: Impish
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Odor Sleuth / Knock Off
Toxic / Ice Shard
In short, my nominees are:
Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash / Lum Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly / Timid
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Taunt / Magic Coat
Fire Punch / ExtremeSpeed / Shadow Ball
Donphan @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Nature: Impish
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Odor Sleuth / Knock Off
Toxic / Ice Shard
In short, my nominees are:
- Bulky Offense
- Deoxys-S
- Donphan
Alright time to get my votes in. I am agreeing with BTzz on rain offense, as we now get a 60% chance of paralyzing the opponent with Thunder! This goes hand-in-hand with Politoed, but instead of a bulky variant, I propose Choice Scarf Politoed so that we have a reliable Excadrill check and a good cleaner.
Politoed @ Choice Scarf | Drizzle
Modest Nature | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hydro Pump | Hidden Power Grass | Ice Beam | Perish Song
Now, I think we need a better check to sand because at the moment, we would be screwed. I propose we try out Double Dance Terrakion, one of the best Terrakion sets in the current metagame due to the prevalence of Excadrill and sand abuse.
Terrakion @ Air Balloon | Justified
Jolly Nature | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Swords Dance | Close Combat | Rock Polish | Stone Edge
As for other teammates, we might want to try a Tail Glow Manaphy because it can complement Meloetta nicely once walls are removed. This is probably the most broken Pokemon in the metagame anyways, and it's extremely fun to use.
Manaphy @ Leftovers | Hydration
Timid Nature | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tail Glow | Rest | Surf | Ice Beam / Grass Knot
In short, my nominations are:
Politoed @ Choice Scarf | Drizzle
Modest Nature | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hydro Pump | Hidden Power Grass | Ice Beam | Perish Song
Now, I think we need a better check to sand because at the moment, we would be screwed. I propose we try out Double Dance Terrakion, one of the best Terrakion sets in the current metagame due to the prevalence of Excadrill and sand abuse.
Terrakion @ Air Balloon | Justified
Jolly Nature | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Swords Dance | Close Combat | Rock Polish | Stone Edge
As for other teammates, we might want to try a Tail Glow Manaphy because it can complement Meloetta nicely once walls are removed. This is probably the most broken Pokemon in the metagame anyways, and it's extremely fun to use.
Manaphy @ Leftovers | Hydration
Timid Nature | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Tail Glow | Rest | Surf | Ice Beam / Grass Knot
In short, my nominations are:
- Rain Offense
- Choice Scarf Politoed
- Double Dance Terrakion
- Tail Glow Manaphy
Wait, which Meloetta set are we using, the one I suggested? That set doesn't have Thunder on it, although you can always just replace it for Thunderbolt, I guess.
Anyway, the set that I suggested depends heavily on hazards, because you're forcing switches by alternating between forms. I like the Deoxys-S suggestion, while other Spikers such as Skarmory, Forretress and Ferrothorn are all perfectly good too.
Anyway, the set that I suggested depends heavily on hazards, because you're forcing switches by alternating between forms. I like the Deoxys-S suggestion, while other Spikers such as Skarmory, Forretress and Ferrothorn are all perfectly good too.
I'm not completely convinced about Rain Offense, but if we're going to be running hazards, we need a Ghost-type to block Rapid Spin.
Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Substitute
~ Disable
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast
Sub Disable Gengar makes a good spin blocker, as many Rapid Spinners only run one move that can actually break Gengar's Sub. Substitute means that it will be a lot harder for Chandelure to trap Gengar, as it will be KO'd by Shadow Ball. This set forces a large amount of switches, further taking advantage of the entry hazards that are laid down.
Excadrill and Starmie are obviously Spinners that this Gengar can't block, but bulkier Ghosts like Jellicent and Dusclops that could check those two are easily trapped by Chandelure. Jellicent also compounds the Electric and Grass weaknesses on Politoed and Manaphy, if we do in fact go with a Rain team.
Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Substitute
~ Disable
~ Shadow Ball
~ Focus Blast
Sub Disable Gengar makes a good spin blocker, as many Rapid Spinners only run one move that can actually break Gengar's Sub. Substitute means that it will be a lot harder for Chandelure to trap Gengar, as it will be KO'd by Shadow Ball. This set forces a large amount of switches, further taking advantage of the entry hazards that are laid down.
Excadrill and Starmie are obviously Spinners that this Gengar can't block, but bulkier Ghosts like Jellicent and Dusclops that could check those two are easily trapped by Chandelure. Jellicent also compounds the Electric and Grass weaknesses on Politoed and Manaphy, if we do in fact go with a Rain team.
Yeah I am going to nominate Rain Offense too. Meloetta is really good under the rain, but I had an interesting idea. Pairing Meloetta with SubCM Jirachi can be a great idea, as the opponent will find it difficult to deal with two Serene Grace users at once. This is the Jirachi set I am talking about:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, - Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Water Pulse
With the EV spread, Jirachi can easily set up on Chansey and Blissey, making 101 HP Substitutes. After a few Calm Minds, start spamming Thunder. Thunder + Water Pulse gives Jirachi excellent coverage, as boosted Water Pulse can take out most Ground-types blocking Thunder in the rain; as an added plus, this allows Jirachi to abuse the rage-inducing ParaFusion combo. Water Pulse bypasses Grass-types looking to abuse their resistance thanks to the rain boost as well. Jirachi also provides key Grass- and Dragon-type resistances for the rain team, which is always useful. 252 Spe EVs and Timid are used to set up CM on stuff like LO Genesect and Hydreigon and Speed tie with other base 100s, like Manaphy.
However, Storm Drain Gastrodon walls this set cold, so I guess we should just run Grass Knot in Manaphy's fourth moveslot; stuff like Dragonite is hit very hard by rain-boosted Surf in any case after a Tail Glow. Jirachi pairs very well with Manaphy, setting up on Ferrothorn with ease and also sponging stray Grass-type moves with ease.
As for an entry hazard setter, I am suggesting Forretress. It can take advantage of Sturdy to almost always set up SR, and also check Dragon Dance users such as Salamence and Dragonite with Gyro Ball.
Forretress @ Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, - SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
With Sturdy, you are basically assured of setting up Stealth Rock. The specially defensive EV spread allows Forretress to make good use of its resistance to Dragon-, Grass-, and Ghost-type attacks and set up entry hazards on stuff like Latios. Shed Shell is used so that you don't become setup bait for SubCM Chandelure. Forretress can also remove entry hazards with Rapid Spin, functioning both as a Rapid Spinner and a hazard setter for your team.
As for a spinblocker, I like DDRMaster's idea of SubDisable Gengar. It also keeps Fighting-types in check and forces a lot of switches, which is nice with the entry hazards we have. Having Fighting- and Normal-type immunities is always welcome as well.
So in short, my nominations are as follows:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, - Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Water Pulse
With the EV spread, Jirachi can easily set up on Chansey and Blissey, making 101 HP Substitutes. After a few Calm Minds, start spamming Thunder. Thunder + Water Pulse gives Jirachi excellent coverage, as boosted Water Pulse can take out most Ground-types blocking Thunder in the rain; as an added plus, this allows Jirachi to abuse the rage-inducing ParaFusion combo. Water Pulse bypasses Grass-types looking to abuse their resistance thanks to the rain boost as well. Jirachi also provides key Grass- and Dragon-type resistances for the rain team, which is always useful. 252 Spe EVs and Timid are used to set up CM on stuff like LO Genesect and Hydreigon and Speed tie with other base 100s, like Manaphy.
However, Storm Drain Gastrodon walls this set cold, so I guess we should just run Grass Knot in Manaphy's fourth moveslot; stuff like Dragonite is hit very hard by rain-boosted Surf in any case after a Tail Glow. Jirachi pairs very well with Manaphy, setting up on Ferrothorn with ease and also sponging stray Grass-type moves with ease.
As for an entry hazard setter, I am suggesting Forretress. It can take advantage of Sturdy to almost always set up SR, and also check Dragon Dance users such as Salamence and Dragonite with Gyro Ball.
Forretress @ Shed Shell
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature (+SpD, - SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
With Sturdy, you are basically assured of setting up Stealth Rock. The specially defensive EV spread allows Forretress to make good use of its resistance to Dragon-, Grass-, and Ghost-type attacks and set up entry hazards on stuff like Latios. Shed Shell is used so that you don't become setup bait for SubCM Chandelure. Forretress can also remove entry hazards with Rapid Spin, functioning both as a Rapid Spinner and a hazard setter for your team.
As for a spinblocker, I like DDRMaster's idea of SubDisable Gengar. It also keeps Fighting-types in check and forces a lot of switches, which is nice with the entry hazards we have. Having Fighting- and Normal-type immunities is always welcome as well.
So in short, my nominations are as follows:
- Rain Offense
- SubCM Jirachi
- Specially Defensive Forretress
- SubDisavle Gengar
I'm kind of worried about this Meloetta set being setup bait for Calm Mind Chandelure. Close Combat and Relic Song do nothing against Chandelure, and Meloetta's best bet is unSTABed Thunderbolt, which does less and less after every Calm Mind. If Chandelure manages to come in on Meloetta in its Step form, it will likely get several Calm Minds easily. As such, I suggest the following:
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Waterfall / Stone Edge
- Recover
(If you want, you can use a moveset of Earthquake / Scald / Yawn or Toxic / Recover with a Sassy nature, but I personally prefer Curse Quagsire.)
This is the only thing that can take attacks from a +6 Chandelure. Chandelure doesn't 2HKO with Shadow Ball so you can Curse up, and then OHKO Chandelure with STAB Earthquake regardless of weather. This doesn't just beat Chandelure though: Calm Mind Jirachi and Jirachi in general is another threat to Meloetta, especially when it hasn't had the time to use Relic Song yet, is setup on easily by Quagsire.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Waterfall / Stone Edge
- Recover
(If you want, you can use a moveset of Earthquake / Scald / Yawn or Toxic / Recover with a Sassy nature, but I personally prefer Curse Quagsire.)
This is the only thing that can take attacks from a +6 Chandelure. Chandelure doesn't 2HKO with Shadow Ball so you can Curse up, and then OHKO Chandelure with STAB Earthquake regardless of weather. This doesn't just beat Chandelure though: Calm Mind Jirachi and Jirachi in general is another threat to Meloetta, especially when it hasn't had the time to use Relic Song yet, is setup on easily by Quagsire.
Actually, Chandelure will find it difficult to obtain more than 1 CM boost against Meloetta, since if we use Meloetta on a rain team, Thunder will deal ~40% to standard SubCM Chandelure, and since you are assuming Meloetta is in Step Forme, it also naturally outspeeds Chandelure. With Serene Grace, Chandelure is also potentially getting paralysed, and even after a CM, Expert Belt Thunder will break Chandelure's Substitute guaranteed.
If you have SR up, even if Chandelure comes in on CC / Ancient Song safely, you Thunder it for ~40%, it sets up a CM, you Thunder again for ~27%, so after SR and 2 Thunders, Chandelure is sitting at ~20% (after Lefties recovery) with +1 SpA / + 1 SpD without a Substitute. +1 Fire Blast does only 40% max in the rain, and you also have to take into account the chance of full paralysis, so I don't think Chandelure will be able to set up much on Meloetta in the rain.
However, Quagsire does provides a useful Electric-type immunity, and deals with stuff like NP Thundurus, CM Raikou, and the mentioned CM Jirachi, so I guess you could use it to check other rain sweepers. With a specially defensive EV spread, Quagsire will also take rain-boosted Water-type attacks with ease, so it will fit in pretty well on our team.
If you have SR up, even if Chandelure comes in on CC / Ancient Song safely, you Thunder it for ~40%, it sets up a CM, you Thunder again for ~27%, so after SR and 2 Thunders, Chandelure is sitting at ~20% (after Lefties recovery) with +1 SpA / + 1 SpD without a Substitute. +1 Fire Blast does only 40% max in the rain, and you also have to take into account the chance of full paralysis, so I don't think Chandelure will be able to set up much on Meloetta in the rain.
However, Quagsire does provides a useful Electric-type immunity, and deals with stuff like NP Thundurus, CM Raikou, and the mentioned CM Jirachi, so I guess you could use it to check other rain sweepers. With a specially defensive EV spread, Quagsire will also take rain-boosted Water-type attacks with ease, so it will fit in pretty well on our team.