DubTox - My VGC13' toxic stall

[araluen7]

Alright, so to begin I'd like to say that the idea of toxic stalling came to me one day when I was going to buy Pokemon conquest, and I always wanted to implement it. Now that I don't have finals to worry about I'm actually trying to put that idea into motion.

The basis behind the team is simple - poison you and wait. Originally I had a sweeping team, that would set up toxic spikes, and/or poison you directly and then couple that with fast, hard-hitting monsters, but that tactic just would not prevail. So back to the drawing board, I came out with an alright set, with 2 sweepers and the rest stalling, but that would only take me so far. And only in singles too. So here's where it started getting frustrating. I finally came upon a stall set for doubles, and it was viable when it worked! But that was it, it wouldn't work but 15% of the time. I lacked control of the tempo, and therefore the game.

Studying as best I could on speed control, I came upon the decision to set up Trick Room instead of tailwind or other methods. And this took me only so far as well, until my brother (whom had ranking of 1810 with his Trick Room team in the spring friendly) that I needed more time to set up, more support, etc. So here is that team, and I still need quite a few tweaks, so maybe some fresh eyes can help me out here.

Dusclops
Trait: Pressure @Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 123 Def / 133 SDef
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Pain Split
- Toxic
- Trick Room
- Shadow Sneak

Dusclops is easy to play with. Take hits and wall hard. I've had a Dragon Gem Draco Meteor from a Latios, and shrugged it off like a boss. Dusclops will come in and help buy me that extra time I need, but to be really wally, he needs to function under trick room so he can recover or poison you. The only instances where I've had trouble with him, is when I can't pull off trick room, and he is being attacked by both enemies because they know what he can do. I've had this set since day one, so I'm pretty satisfied with his results.

Cresselia
@ Mental Herb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 111 Def / 145 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
- Moonlight
- Psychic

I'll be honest here, I wanted to stay far away from Cresselia and other 'common' Pokemon, because I not only wanted to be original, but I didn't want you predicting what I can do, or what I'm planning to do. But Cresselia has been through some tough battles and really sets the playing field for me. I like leading with her and setting up trick room, and the mental herb for any of those prankster Tornadus/Thunderus trying to taunt me. Skill swap comes in handy many a situation. Psychic for when I do get taunted a second time, and moonlight for recovery.

Heatran
@ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 123 Def / 133 SDef
Bold Nature
- Heat Wave
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic

Yeah yeah, defensive Heatran. His ability to tank a hit and still pull off a sub is what drew me towards him. Like Cresselia, I didn't want him at first, but going against him in so many battles I know what he can do, and how he can be a threat. Protect is for those sand/rain teams that can equake him or surf, until Cresselia can skill swap water absorb/levitate on him. You get the picture. Flash fire came in handy a lot more when I used to run prankster Whimsiscott on this team too.

Thundurus
@ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 HP / 200 Def / 200 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 0 Spd
- Torment
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Protect

My original thinking behind putting him on the team was to replace Whimsiscott as a prankster, but also so I can get that HP grass to deflect rain teams, but I actually only used this maybe once or twice total. And he didn't really do much, so I'm thinking of dumping him again. Tell me what you think guys. Torment was for Chandelure so he can't keep Shadow Ball on my Dusclops, but since adding him, I haven't seen a Chandelure yet. Go figure.

Hitmontop
@ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 130 Def / 126 SDef
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Mach Punch
- Toxic
- Swagger

My next usual lead with Cresselia. First turn fake out, turn 2 is usually toxic on physical monsters, or swagger on special sweepers. I really like this setup, although he isn't usually in battle for long, he does do a lot to the team. Priority Mach Punch is still +1 while trick room is set up, and thats just STAB base 60 (with Technician) damage. Although its not much, it does add up with poison on them.

Virizion
Trait: Justified
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Def / 100 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Synthesis
- Worry Seed

I honestly just added this to the team, replacing prankster Sableye whom I stopped using after the addition of Hitmontop. Close combat could be used on Steel monsters, which poison hates with a fiery passion, and leaf blade is used on those pesky rain teams, with rain enhanced surf. Worry seed I put on, because I imagine there would be scenarios where I would have lost Cresselia or skill swap in particular and I want to hit them, such as water absorb, flash fire etc.

So seeing the team in action, the most common things I lead with are:

The dynamic duo I suppose you can call them. Like stated previously. Fake out + Trick room, is one of the best first turn investments I could make. Then either set up poison and wait, or switch out and see what happens. I almost never switch out my Cresselia.

Adding to that, switching out Hitmontop for Heatran is always a solid move,

Battling Sun teams I find it best to set up a sub here, then toxic them and spam psychic. I only ever have trouble with Ninetails, but I usually aim to take her down first.

In the event Hitmontop does faint, and Heatran isn't suitable, I always switch in Dusclops so I can wall, while I think of a new strategy or just to sit there and wall.

Like earlier, I use her for breaking apart rain teams, and out of the few times I've used her, I'm impressed with what I've seen. Maybe thinking about putting a grass gem on her, to beef up leaf blade.

Last but not least, the prankster.

Importable

Hide

Dusclops (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 123 Def / 133 SDef
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Pain Split
- Toxic
- Trick Room
- Shadow Sneak

Cresselia (F) @ Mental Herb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 111 Def / 145 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
- Moonlight
- Psychic

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 123 Def / 133 SDef
Bold Nature
- Heat Wave
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 108 HP / 200 Def / 200 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 0 Spd
- Torment
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Protect

Hitmontop (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 130 Def / 126 SDef
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Mach Punch
- Toxic
- Swagger

Virizion
Trait: Justified
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Def / 100 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Synthesis
- Worry Seed

Not that anyone will want it....Even if you don't have any suggestions, please feel free to tell me what you think, like/dislike. Every little bit helps guys!

 

[AuraRayquaza]

this looks like a good team to me. just a few nitpicks.

first of all, i would change hitmontop from technician to intimidate so that it can live more fighting type attacks, due to its lower defense, and heatran can live some more ground/fighting attacks. If you choose to do this, then i would put close combat on it as mach punch does nothing without technician.

you have also said that your thundurus is not very useful and it does not really do anything to rain. it is also not very slow even with -speed nature and 0 ivs. for this reason, i would change to a ferrothorn because it is very fast in trick room, it can really counter rain teams (toxicroak can be beaten) and you can skill swap flash fire from heatran onto it.


Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed/Toxic
- Protect

Leech seed helps ferro to gain health and can be stacked on toxic while toxic may be of personal preference if you want it. Also, if you choose to add this, i would put chople berry on heatran to live a fighting attack while you set up a sub or skill swap levitate onto it.

I would change psychic to psyshock on cresselia to hit hitmontop and virizion harder, due to their lower physical defense

I can also see that you are a bit stuck if you cannot get up toxic or trick room because you whole team is slow and you have no real sweepers to take advantage of the toxic stalling. I can also see that virizion is not doing anything useful to the team, apart from leech seed, which is highly situational. For this, i would change virizion to an life orb hydreigon so you can take advantage of the toxic stalling and it gives you something to hit hard if trick room runs out or it doesnt even get set up.


Hydreigon (M) @ Dragon Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Protect

Fire blast and draco meteor give near perfect neutral coverage (bar heatran) and dark pulse is good for a STAB. Dragon Gem is to hit everything hard and so you don't lose HP every time you attack.

TL;DR

Hide

Techician ---> Intimidate (Hitmontop)
Mach Punch ---> Close Combat (Hitmontop)
Virizion ---> Hydreigon
Thundurus ---> Ferrothorn
Leftovers ---> Chople Berry (Heatran)
Psychic ---> Psyshock (Cresselia)

Hope you like my rate!

 

[araluen7]

first of all, i would change hitmontop from technician to intimidate so that it can live more fighting type attacks, due to its lower defense, and heatran can live.

I think that would be a lot better, and maybe even put fighting gem on him? Sadly I'm at work right now, but as soon as I get home I'll admend that accordingly. And now that I see it all on paper, I notice more things that don't make sense. Like Virizion for instance. I understand where you are coming from with Hydreigon, but I only intend to use Virizion specifically for rain teams. Which got me to thinking, synthesis on him makes no sense, because you don't restore that much in the rain. So maybe replace that with Sacred Sword? Idk, but I'm not tryiing to completely throw out your idea of Hydreigon here.

The switch from Thundurus to Ferrothorn I will deff try out as well. I never found a spot for him on the team as it was lol.

As for Psyshock on Cresselia, I think that'll I try that out for a bit and see how that fares, but I think psychic would still fit. But we'll see. I used to run Future Sight on her, because I just didn't want to be taunted into struggle. Will EDIT post when I get home

 

[King of Blades]

Hi!

Toxic stall in VGC... Interesting, to say the least.

There are times that sitting there and stalling just doesn't work in such a fast-paced metagame as VGC. Unfortunately for you, I see two problems with your team. One: you have no way of going out there and dealing damage. Yeah, everyone here does decent damage over time, but there is a time for stalling and a time to go bonk some heads. In such an offensive metagame, you need at least one pokemon that hits hard and powerful. Two: tornadus and thundurus crap all over your team. They are beatable by cresselia and dusclops if they receive a toxic, but tornadus-t is so much more problematic. He can just switch in once, crap all over your team with hurricane or acrobatics one turn, then switch out to regenerate all toxic damage and then some. You have a painfully obvious solution on your team; the only problem is he isn't using the correct set.

The best thing to do would be to switch your thundurus to this set.

Thundurus @Life Orb / Electric Gem
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed OR 252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 0 speed iv | Timid / Quiet | Prankster
~Thunderbolt
~Hidden Power Ice
~Focus Blast / Taunt / Grass Knot
~Protect

Ok, so here's the set. First off, you have two choices for nature/ev set. The first one is a 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed spread with a timid or modest nature. This spread hits hard and outspeeds the majority of the metagame. The other spread is a 252 HP, 252 Sp. Atk spread with a 0 speed iv and a quiet nature. At its minimum, thundurus hits 232 speed, which is actually slower than most of the metagame. That is specially designed to go with trick room from dusclops and cresselia. Life Orb gives it a massive power boost, but electric gem can be used for a one time power boost to thunderbolt even more massive than life orb. Thunderbolt is basic STAB, and hits many pokemon hard. Hidden Power Ice is there for dragons and thundurus-t. Thundurus and zapdos actually get hit harder by an electric gem thunderbolt, but hidden power ice is more powerful after the gem is used up. Focus Miss misses an unbelievably high amount of times, but it hits a bunch of stuff for super effective damage, specifically both of his weaknesses. Taunt can be used to shut down opposing fast offensive teams that carry trick room just to cancel your trick room. Grass knot hits gastrodon. Protect is there for obvious reasons.

Overall, I think this will solve your problem with tornadus and thundurus.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

I think that would be a lot better, and maybe even put fighting gem on him?

Due to the nature of your Hitmontop, I think sitrus berry is still the best item as fighting gem close combat without a +atk nature or any evs is a waste of an item.

I only intend to use Virizion specifically for rain teams. Which got me to thinking, synthesis on him makes no sense, because you don't restore that much in the rain. So maybe replace that with Sacred Sword?

If you were to use Ferrothorn, then you do not need virizion at all, but if you do want to use virizion, then yes, sacred sword would be great for stopping those bulk up scraftys. X-scissor could also work to hit Ludicolo hard.

As for Psyshock on Cresselia, I think that'll I try that out for a bit and see how that fares, but I think psychic would still fit.

I would still definitely recommend psyshock but psychic is more powerful so both are viable. If you have playtested this team and think that hitmontop is not a threat to the team then psychic is better, if hitmontop gives you problems then psyshock is better

 

[araluen7]

Due to the nature of your Hitmontop, I think sitrus berry is still the best item as fighting gem close combat without a +atk nature or any evs is a waste of an item.

I took your advice on this, and he is working out wonders. I even tried an Eject button on him, just so I can get a glimpse of how that item works, but that brought me nothing but troubles. So back to the berry.

I did take your advice on the ferrothorn, but its sorta to the effect like King Of Blades said, where Thundurus/Tornadus tear this team apart. He is right, but to an effect. I have no problem dealing with either of them, but I have come across 2 or 3 teams that use both of them as leads, and I've been shaky the entire battle.

But going along with that, Ferrothorn does have that resistance to flying and ice that would be good for me, but unless I can get trick room off (which seems harder for me in rain. Just my experience) he really isn't sweeping away the threats that can tear me down. Specifically Politoed and Ludicolo if left unchecked.

Tried out both Psychic and Psyshock, but I like Psychic better, and I've gotten off a lot of the SpDe stat decreases, so I'm going to stick with that.

X-Scissor works fantastic, moved that onto Virizion. But I gotta say, I'm really impressed with how far the team's brought me.