Shed Shell Dugtrio?
This Arena Trapper has me wondering about the performance of Trapinch.
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Dugtrio
- Thread starter Colonel M
- Start date
Shed Shell Dugtrio?
This Arena Trapper has me wondering about the performance of Trapinch.
Well let's take a look then.
Trapinch (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 196 Atk / 96 Def / 216 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Quick Attack
Welcome to Trapinch's entire movepool.
Those EVs + Eviolite give it a stat spread of 231/313/300/113/360/56. Beats Tyranitar & Ninetales 1v1, 2HKOing T-tar & OHKOing Ninetales while surviving a Sun-boosted Overheat. Just need to be weary of Will-O-Wisp.
Just like in 4th Gen, Trapinch makes a good Trick Room Trapper, even more so with Eviolite, but other than that you're better off using Dugtrio since Trapinch is 2HKO'd by most anything.
And Dugtrio isn't? :P But seriously, I know it's the speed you're talking about. Dugtrio usually doesn't have to take a second hit to get its job done, since it can 2HKO its targets under most circumstances.
Anyway, I thought I'd sorta necro this thread since it appeared there was a bit of interest in it after some poor newbie got their Dugtrio thread locked because they weren't able to figure out the search function/indexes.
One thing that I've noticed is that for some reason there's no Reversal analysis for Dugtrio on the site, despite that set being the most common one I see and the only one I've ever used successfully in OU. For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, here it is:
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def (or whatever it doesn't matter much).
Nature: anything that raises attack or speed and lowers special attack, or if you want to make sure you get to 1hp, run a nature that boosts speed/attack and lowers special/physical defense. Attack vs. speed boosting depends on what you want to kill most, though Attack is usually the way to go.
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Reversal
- Sucker Punch/Memento
This set aims to take out key threats to your team in OU; usually the opponents weather inducer. Because of the lack of a power boosting item, this set aims not to attempt to take out more than one Pokemon, but to ensure that one, very important Pokemon goes down. The set achieves this in one of three ways:
a) By switching in on an already weakened Pokemon and either outspeeding it for the KO or using Sucker Punch for Priority. Be aware that Sucker Punch on this set is weak as hell, so only use it if the opponent outspeeds and has very little health left.
b) Coming in after the Pokemon you need dead kills one of your Pokemon. When you do this, this set is almost guaranteed to take down anything that doesn't resist Earthquake and Reversal (or fly/levitate, obviously) However it can only do it once, and its sash needs to be intact. The idea is simple. Earthquake/Stone Edge on the first turn, and hopefully they attack activating your sash. After that follow up with a bone crushing Reversal. If you're outsped, use Sucker Punch instead.
c) Switching into an attack. This only works Pokemon severely vulnerable to either Earthquake or Reversal, like Tyranitar or Magnezone. Switch in, murder with the appropriate move.
Using the first method allows you to net multiple kills simply by virtue of not getting hit, and can be used even after the sash is activated provided you keep hazards and hail at bay, thanks to the fact Reversal becomes even more powerful than Earthquake when it's active. Because of the reliance on the field being empty of hazards in order for this set to meet its potential, it either tends to be run as a lead or on teams that already rely hugely on rapid spin support. This is why this Dugtrio is most commonly seen on Sun teams, since they're so reliant on keeping hazards off the field anyway.
While this set might serve a very limited role, in todays weather dominated metagame that role is of insane importance. Anyone who's played weather knows how important it is to eliminate the opponents weather inducer before they eliminate yours. Dugtrio is often just the Pokemon to achieve that.
EDIT: Ah yes, forgot to explain Memento. Thanks to Team Preview you usually know once Dugtrio's job is done, and a Dugtrio at 1hp isn't going to be much use anyway. So you can use Dugtrio's lightning fast Memento to get a sweeper in for free, and also give them a turn to set up. Any boosting sweeper would greatly appreciate the free set up, so it can be quite useful.
That Dugtrio set is interesting Jimera. The only problem is that it essentially takes up two teamslots, since you'll need to pack a Rapid Spinner so Stealth Rocks don't make 'Trio useless. If the opponent has no hazards, then Dugtrio almost certainly gets one important KO; however, is that worth the potential team diversity you lose? (On Rain teams, it's not as big of a deal since Starmie is one of the best Spinners and Rain abusers in one)
Well that's up to you really. I haven't really used this personally outside of one gimmick team, but I have seen it quite frequently on Sun teams and other weather based teams because it is SO vital to take out the opponent's weather inducer. As for the whole issue of requiring two team slots, this Dugtrio is usually used on teams that already must incorporate and rapid spinner for other reasons (IE because of Volcarona, multiple flying types on rain teams etc.). No matter what though are basically sacrificing a team slot for the advantage of being able to win the weather war, so it tends to lower your effectiveness against non-weather teams. On the other hand, it isn't completely limited to weather teams since you can usually guarantee at least one KO with this set if you use it properly.
So yeah, it's a trade off, but people can really make it work, especially in the weather dominated metagame we face.
One of my favorite uses of Dugtrio is a CB revenge killer
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Aerial Ace
~Sucker Punch
I use this particularly in weather to eliminate undesirable weather status. Tyranitar, Ninetales, and weakened non-Choice Scarf Politoed are all ruined (weakened Scarf variants can be taken care of with Sucker Punch). Unfortunately, Jolly (388 Attack) is needed to outspeed Scarf Tyranitar.
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Aerial Ace
~Sucker Punch
I use this particularly in weather to eliminate undesirable weather status. Tyranitar, Ninetales, and weakened non-Choice Scarf Politoed are all ruined (weakened Scarf variants can be taken care of with Sucker Punch). Unfortunately, Jolly (388 Attack) is needed to outspeed Scarf Tyranitar.
It sounds like an interesting idea, having an Arena Trap user capable of taking hits. But what I wanna know is, how much do Tyranitar/Ninetales do to it in turn? I also don't see how it could stand a chance against Politoed. I think Dugtrio would be superior in most cases, since Dugtrio can use items like Focus Sash, Choice Band, and Life Orb. Trapinch can't.
TL;DR: Just go evolve that Trapinch into Flygon.
I will put this in where I poste dthis somewhere else.
Dugtrio is not as viable in OU. It really shines in lower tiers like UU and RU. Its a manifestation of a revenge killer with awesome speed and......the victim not being able to escape. It has decent coverage like the QuakeEdge. However it has below par attack at 80 so you basically need a life orb or Choice band. Not to mention it has terrible defenses and priority moves tear it apart.
Dugtrio is not as viable in OU. It really shines in lower tiers like UU and RU. Its a manifestation of a revenge killer with awesome speed and......the victim not being able to escape. It has decent coverage like the QuakeEdge. However it has below par attack at 80 so you basically need a life orb or Choice band. Not to mention it has terrible defenses and priority moves tear it apart.
Not viable in OU? Dugtrio is viable as fuck in OU.
Sun teams are commonly walled by Heatran. By using a simple core of Ninetales/Volcarona/Dugtrio, sun teams are able to completely decimate teams who's only answer to sun is spdef Heatran. Remember that it has arena trap (think: one of the few trappers) and is able to kill off Ninetales and Tyranitar, as well as severely maiming Politoed. It's one of the best revenge killer in OU and while yes, 80 is subpar, it's all it really needs since you'll only be trapping pokemon you can hit super effectively.
If your ONLY way of dealing with sun is heatran, there is something seriously wrong with your team in the first place.
Dugtrio is cool though, its probably the best revenge killer in the game. Do not over exagerate its worth though.
Dugtrio is cool though, its probably the best revenge killer in the game. Do not over exagerate its worth though.
Well yes, if your sun team is hard walled by Heatran it's absolutely fucking terrible, but I'm just making a point that Dugtrio is very viable in OU, especially when I've been seeing it quite a bit.
I have no idea what BattleStar is talking about. If Dugtrio weren't viable in OU, why is there an OU analysis?
Defenses don't really matter when you have a revenge killer out of all things. Plus, Dugtrio only makes the weather wars a lot easier. Is it the best Pokemon in OU? Obviously not. Does that mean it's not viable in OU? No.
It would probably be a good idea to weaken enemy Pokemon first, since there's no way in hell Dugtrio is gonna OHKO standard Tyranitar without a crit.
Defenses don't really matter when you have a revenge killer out of all things. Plus, Dugtrio only makes the weather wars a lot easier. Is it the best Pokemon in OU? Obviously not. Does that mean it's not viable in OU? No.
It would probably be a good idea to weaken enemy Pokemon first, since there's no way in hell Dugtrio is gonna OHKO standard Tyranitar without a crit.
Memento works really well on Dugtrio. It is mostly used in Sun Teams to get rid of the other weather.
Speaking of Memento, a cool combo would be Memento-trapping to definitely remove 1 opposing enemy mon which you would other wise have trouble dealing with. Using Weavile to Pursuit after Memento seems like a sure-kill method to remove your enemies weather inducers, Blisseys, Gliscor or some other irritating mon.
Obviously you wont be using Dugtrio exclusively to Memento but fit it into a LO, choice or even Sash set, using Memento when it seems appropriate.
Obviously you wont be using Dugtrio exclusively to Memento but fit it into a LO, choice or even Sash set, using Memento when it seems appropriate.
Memento really isn't intended to force a switch for pursuit as it is to provide something with free set up. Memento doesn't lower defensive stats remember- just offensive ones. This means that if pursuit wouldn't kill normally, it still won't kill, though it does make it more likely to force a switch obviously. No, the real issue is that two of those weather inducers are pretty damn likely to be able to escape pursuit fairly unscather. Ninetales usually carries Substitute (the good ones do anyway) and/or will-o-wisp, both of which screw up pursuiters. Tyranitar obviously has little to fear from pursuit with his high defense and resistance. Politoed is the only one that would really be hurt by it, and even then it's likely to survive the pursuit (I know b/c my Scarf-toad regularly takes banded pursuits from t-tar without fainting, though it obviously doesn't like it much).
So yeah, if you're using Memento it's usually to get something a chance to set up, like SD Lucario or Haxorus.
Game Changer Move Set
Dugtrio (Free Set-up Move Set)
Item: Air Balloon
Nature: Jolly
EVs: Max Attack and Speed
Moves
Hone Claws
Substitute
Earthquake
Stone Edge
At first it looks gimmicky, but with electric and ground moves still common in OU it is easy to catch a choiced opponent off guard, set up to plus 6 attack with a sub and sweep with near perfect EQ/Stone Edge coverage. The best team mates are starmie with trick and gyrados to attract the lightning and also heatran. I been using this set very succesfully over on PO after watching a similar set being used on youtube by rchizzel. I improved on it by adding the air balloon since an extra immunity serves you better than full hp on something with zero defense.
Counters: None!
May be taken down by two priority users or one if it has focus sash or sturdy. Some really defensive pokes may be able to break the sub too, and possibly things with moves like bullet seed and icicle spear.
Partners: Starmie, Gyrados, Heatran
Dugtrio (Free Set-up Move Set)
Item: Air Balloon
Nature: Jolly
EVs: Max Attack and Speed
Moves
Hone Claws
Substitute
Earthquake
Stone Edge
At first it looks gimmicky, but with electric and ground moves still common in OU it is easy to catch a choiced opponent off guard, set up to plus 6 attack with a sub and sweep with near perfect EQ/Stone Edge coverage. The best team mates are starmie with trick and gyrados to attract the lightning and also heatran. I been using this set very succesfully over on PO after watching a similar set being used on youtube by rchizzel. I improved on it by adding the air balloon since an extra immunity serves you better than full hp on something with zero defense.
Counters: None!
May be taken down by two priority users or one if it has focus sash or sturdy. Some really defensive pokes may be able to break the sub too, and possibly things with moves like bullet seed and icicle spear.
Partners: Starmie, Gyrados, Heatran
My favourite Dugtrio is bulky CB; for example can take a Extremesped of Lucario with this bulk and kill with EQ/Reversal, Sash Dugtrio needs always Stealth Rock out of your field or is meh.
Dugtrio (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 144 HP / 140 Atk / 224 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Reversal / Memento
Dugtrio (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 144 HP / 140 Atk / 224 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Reversal / Memento
I'll admit that adding an extra immunity (and to ground!) certainly improves the original immensely, but it's still far too situational to be genuinely useful. I only have six teamslots, and this set will be competing against a whole lot of other, more reliable sweepers that have the capacity to be useful in every game--not just against the odd Jolteon or Mamoswine.
Dugtrio (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 144 HP / 140 Atk / 224 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Reversal / Memento
This is intriguing. It's worth noting that, when accounting for the CB boost, this spread has higher Attack than Adamant-sash Dugtrio. Losing move flexibility is hardly an issue for this sort of revenge killer. Are you outspeeding anything in particular with those EVs? Do you have any more relevant damage calcs?
Quite the mega necro bump here!
Honestly, the best team on which to use Dugtrio as a trapper is on a rain team. A Jolly Earthquake with no boosting item 2HKOes rain's main rivals, Tyranitar and Ninetales, even OHKOing less bulky versions of the latter. Alternatively, for Tyranitar, you can just Reversal it into oblivion. It requires some maintenance so you better be damn sure your opponent hasn't set up rocks yet. On any other weather team, it's hard to take out Politoed as you aren't even 3HKOing defensive variants and you're not guaranteed a 2HKO on offensive variants.
Honestly, the best team on which to use Dugtrio as a trapper is on a rain team. A Jolly Earthquake with no boosting item 2HKOes rain's main rivals, Tyranitar and Ninetales, even OHKOing less bulky versions of the latter. Alternatively, for Tyranitar, you can just Reversal it into oblivion. It requires some maintenance so you better be damn sure your opponent hasn't set up rocks yet. On any other weather team, it's hard to take out Politoed as you aren't even 3HKOing defensive variants and you're not guaranteed a 2HKO on offensive variants.
You say this works against choiced user of Equake and electric. Well by far the most common Equake users are Landorus and Gliscor, both of whom are immune to arena trap. The most common electric user is Thundurus who is also immune to arena trap, this would work against the occasional jolteon, and choiced rotom-w but is too gimmicky for me.
^_^ rotom-w also escapes arena trap!
i have seen boosting sets done in ubers. electric is a much more powerful attacking type there and you can actually find a lot of choiced electric (kyogre, palkia, zekrom) to come in on. moreover, relatively few of the mons in ubers can get away from dugtrio (but EVERYTHING in ubers will kill you unless you're immune lol), and its speed tier is still really solid there so you can actually hurt things. but i'm not feeling it in OU as others have noted.
besides, thanks to team preview, whenever the opponent has an immunity to one of your choiced attackers, a good player should be, at the very least, EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS about throwing out that attack. all the more so if the immunity is on a guy like dugtrio that can actually use it to kill you. you'd have to do a really good job of luring in those attacks, which as others have noted, is tough in OU because most of the choiced users will be able to switch out through arena trap. and of course choice bluffing happens in every tier so if you mispredict and come in on lustrous orb palk's thunder when you thought it was choice scarf, say goodbye to dugtrio; at best you'll waste a sub and get forced out for nothing, at worst you die.
besides, thanks to team preview, whenever the opponent has an immunity to one of your choiced attackers, a good player should be, at the very least, EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS about throwing out that attack. all the more so if the immunity is on a guy like dugtrio that can actually use it to kill you. you'd have to do a really good job of luring in those attacks, which as others have noted, is tough in OU because most of the choiced users will be able to switch out through arena trap. and of course choice bluffing happens in every tier so if you mispredict and come in on lustrous orb palk's thunder when you thought it was choice scarf, say goodbye to dugtrio; at best you'll waste a sub and get forced out for nothing, at worst you die.
Brain fart on my behalf
I think this actually might be really helpful in countering choice-locked Genesect. This set takes some of the burden of predictions/mind games that comes with facing a Genesect. For example, if you have a Gyarados in against a Genesect, it will either U-Turn or Thunder/Thunderbolt. So you keep your Gyarados in and Dragon Dance. If he kills you with Thunderbolt, then you can bring in Dugtrio and prepare to sweep. If he U-Turns, then you got a free Dragon Dance and can prepare to sweep anyway. I think this set does have it's uses if it's able to set up on one of the most common Pokémon in today's metagame.
I like to play Sub-Liechi Dugtrio in case on the off chance you do come in vs. choiced electric moves, at least you get off a Sub, and Liechi boosted Reversal does tons of damage to a lot of things (afaik it does like 40 to Skarm which is nothing to scoff at).