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Dusknoir [QC 3/3] (GP 2/2)

Psywaves

Procrastinating Pedantic Perfectionist™
is a Contributor Alumnus
QC: hollywood, Punchshroom, marilli
GP: Antemortem, Weebl
dusknoir.gif

Overview
########
  • Immunities to Normal- and Fighting-type attacks grant Dusknoir plenty of opportunities to switch in and function as a bulky, offensively inclined spinblocker that can beat common spinners
  • Decent offensive presence
  • Vast movepool includes priority, many coverage options, and Trick to cripple walls with. Dusknoir can also Pursuit trap foes should your team benefit greatly from the elimination of frail Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon
  • Has the niche of access to priority, Pursuit, Trick over Golurk and is not weak to the STAB moves of common spinners, unlike the latter
  • Incredible defensive stats are undermined by a poor HP stat that makes Dusknoir prone to being worn down quickly
  • Lacks reliable recovery
  • No powerful STAB
  • Golurk, Rotom, and Mismagius are superior offensive Ghost-types, and Gourgeist-XL, Gourgeist-S, and Misdreavus outclass Dusknoir defensively
Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Sneak
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
move 4: Trick / Pursuit
ability: Pressure
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
nature: Adamant

Moves
========
  • Shadow Sneak is Dusknoir's STAB option, and its increased priority serves to somewhat mitigate Dusknoir's poor Speed.
  • Earthquake has great neutral coverage with Shadow Sneak.
  • In the third moveslot, Ice Punch is a nice option as it can 2HKO Sandslash (though will only 3HKO if Dusknoir's Choice Band is removed via Knock Off).
  • Alternatively, Fire Punch can be used to nail the likes of Cryogonal and Ferroseed.
  • Trick can reduce the utility of an opposing wall by forcing it to be locked into a single move because of Choice Band.
  • Pursuit is a possibility in the last moveslot to advantage of switches forced against frail Ghost- and Psychic-types. It can OHKO Cryogonal on the switch out and takes a hefty bite out of a switching Claydol's health.
Set Details
========
  • Maximum HP and Attack EVs bolster Dusknoir's overall bulk and offensive presence.
  • An Adamant nature takes Dusknoir's Attack up another notch.
  • Choice Band provides Dusknoir with a much appreciated power boost.
  • Pressure is the chosen ability to deprive the foe of one extra PP when it attacks. This can come in handy against attackers relying on moves with low PP.
Usage Tips
========
  • Spinblocking is a big part of Dusknoir's niche, therefore it should be brought in when you predict a Rapid Spin from the foe. From there, Dusknoir should aim to dispose of the spinner with the appropriate move.
  • Given that a Normal-type can switch in on a choice-locked Shadow Sneak and force Dusknoir out, and similarly, one should play this set with careful prediction. In a similar vein, Flying-types can use a choice-locked Earthquake to their advantage.
  • Trick should be used if you predict a wall coming in to sponge your attacks, though make sure it's definitely necessary to use Trick, as without a Choice Band, Dusknoir's damage output is somewhat lacking.
  • If you are running Pursuit in the last moveslot, use it when you are against Cryogonal or a Psychic- or Ghost-type foe and you predict a switch.
Team Options
========
  • As Dusknoir is a spinblocker, it wants teammates that can set up hazards, so that it can prevent the foe from removing said hazards. Examples of hazard setters are Crustle, Ferroseed, Qwilfish, and Garbodor.
  • Wish and cleric support are ideal for Dusknoir, as it lacks reliable recovery and is prone to being worn down by status. Audino and Lickilicky are examples of Pokemon that can provide this support; these two Pokemon also have good synergy with Dusknoir as it is immune to their sole weakness.
  • Dark- and Fighting-type Pokemon such as Cacturne, Pawniard, Sawk, and Gurdurr can cover Dusknoir's weaknesses to Ghost and Dark, making them good teammates.
  • Pokemon that appreciate Dusknoir's ability to Pursuit trap Psychic- and Ghost-types make for great teammates. For example, Garbodor appreciates Dusknoir's ability to trap Xatu, though it will need a small amount of prior damage to OHKO the latter with Pursuit.
  • As Dusknoir can cripple walls with Trick, and lure and dispose of irksome defensive Pokemon such as Ferroseed, teammates that can take advantage of this are solid choices. Examples are Feraligatr and Klinklang; they appreciate having Ferroseed crippled with Trick or KOed by Fire Punch. In a similar vein, Virizion and Sawk appreciate having Dusknoir cripple Pelipper and Gourgeist-XL.
Other Options
########
  • A tank set running two attacks, Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split is a possibility, though it generally fails to accomplish as much as the Choice Band set.
  • Dusknoir has alternative coverage options available, such as Brick Break and Rock Slide. These moves are useful against specific targets, though Dusknoir would rather not forego any of the listed options.
  • Shadow Punch is more powerful than Shadow Sneak, though lacks priority and is still weak.
  • Dusknoir can run a SubPunch set, though it is better off being played as an all-out offensive spinblocker, and Pokemon such as Poliwrath do SubPunch better.
  • Toxic can be used to wear down walls.
  • Access to Calm Mind and an array of special attacks make a special set a possibility, though Dusknoir's lacking Special Attack and Speed limit the potential of such a set.
Checks and Counters
########
**Dark-types**: Dark-type attackers such as Pawniard, Cacturne, and Sneasel can put the hurt on Dusknoir, though they must be wary of the prospect of taking a hit from a super effective coverage move. If foe such as Sneasel or Pawniard happens to be running Pursuit, then they can hit a Dusknoir locked into Shadow Sneak on the switch for great damage.

**Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Pokemon with good physical bulk, such as Gurdurr, Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gourgeist-XL, Pelipper, and Tangela, can take hits from Dusknoir and cripple it with status, set up, heal off damage taken from Dusknoir's attacks, Knock Off Duskoir's Choice Band, or just simply outdamage it, though most need to be wary of Trick. Mega Audino gets a special mention for being unaffected by Trick. Many physically bulky Pokemon can take on Dusknoir if it is not locked into the right move for dealing with them.

**Status**: Toxic and burn from users of Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Scald such as Seismitoad and Weezing wear Dusknoir down and limit its longevity. Burn also weakens Dusknoir.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types such as Golurk and Mismagius hit Dusknoir hard with their super effective STAB moves and outspeed Dusknoir, assuming that it is not locked into Shadow Sneak.
Overview
########
Immunities to Normal- and Fighting-type attacks grant Dusknoir plenty of opportunities to switch in and function as a bulky, offensively inclined spinblocker. Dusknoir boasts a decent offensive presence and a vast movepool that includes priority, many coverage options, and Trick, which Dusknoir can use to cripple walls. Dusknoir can also Pursuit trap foes should its team benefit from the elimination of Cryogonal and frail Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon. Additionally, Dusknoir outclasses Golurk by virtue of its access to priority, Pursuit, and Trick and not being weak to Cryogonal's STAB moves. However, Dusknoir's incredible defensive stats are undermined by a poor HP stat that makes it prone to being worn down quickly, and its lack of reliable recovery further exacerbates this issue. It also has no powerful STAB moves, and Golurk, Rotom, and Mismagius are generally superior offensive Ghost-types, whereas Gourgeist-XL, Gourgeist-S, and Misdreavus outclass Dusknoir defensively.

Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Sneak
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Punch / Fire Punch
move 4: Trick / Pursuit
ability: Pressure
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Shadow Sneak's priority serves to somewhat mitigate Dusknoir's poor Speed. Earthquake has great neutral coverage with Shadow Sneak. Ice Punch can 2HKO Sandslash but will only 3HKO if Dusknoir's Choice Band is removed via Knock Off), though Fire Punch nails the likes of Cryogonal and Ferroseed. Trick can reduce the utility of an opposing wall by giving it a Choice Band and locking it into a single move. Pursuit can take advantage of switches forced against frail Ghost- and Psychic-types. It can OHKO Cryogonal on the switch out and takes a hefty bite out of a switching Claydol's health.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Attack EVs bolster Dusknoir's overall bulk and offensive presence, and an Adamant nature takes Dusknoir's Attack up anotch. Choice Band provides Dusknoir with a much-appreciated power boost, enabling it to net OHKOs and 2HKOs with greater ease. For example, with Choice Band, Dusknoir OHKOes a switching Cryogonal with Pursuit. Pressure deprives the foe of one extra PP when it attacks. This can come in handy against attackers relying on moves with low PP.

Usage Tips
========

Spinblocking is a big part of Dusknoir's niche; therefore, it should be brought in when you predict a Rapid Spin from the foe. From there, Dusknoir should aim to dispose of the spinner with the appropriate move. Given that a Normal-type can switch in on a Choice-locked Shadow Sneak and force Dusknoir out, one should play this set with careful prediction. In a similar vein, Flying-types can use a Choice-locked Earthquake to their advantage. Trick should be used if you predict a wall coming in to sponge Dusknoir's attacks, though make sure it's definitely necessary to use Trick, as without a Choice Band, Dusknoir's damage output is somewhat lacking. If you are running Pursuit in the last moveslot, Dusknoir should use it when it is against Cryogonal or a Psychic- or Ghost-type foe and you predict a switch.

Team Options
========

As Dusknoir is a spinblocker, it wants teammates that can set up entry hazards so that it can prevent the foe from removing said entry hazards. Examples of entry hazard setters are Crustle, Ferroseed, Qwilfish, and Garbodor. Wish and cleric support are ideal for Dusknoir, as it lacks reliable recovery and is prone to being worn down by status. Audino and Lickilicky are examples of Pokemon that can provide this support; they have good synergy with Dusknoir, as it is immune to their sole weakness. Partner Dark- and Fighting-type Pokemon such as Cacturne, Pawniard, Sawk, and Gurdurr can cover Dusknoir's weaknesses to Ghost and Dark. Pokemon that appreciate Dusknoir's ability to Pursuit trap Psychic- and Ghost-types make for great teammates. For example, Garbodor appreciates Dusknoir's ability to trap Xatu, though Dusknoir will need a small amount of prior damage to score the OHKO. As Dusknoir can cripple walls with Trick, and lure and dispose of irksome defensive Pokemon such as Ferroseed with its offensive moves, teammates that can take advantage of this, such as Feraligatr and Klinklang, are solid choices. In a similar vein, Virizion and Sawk appreciate having Dusknoir cripple Pelipper and Gourgeist-XL.

Other Options
########

A tank set running two attacks, Will-O-Wisp, and Pain Split, is a possibility, though it generally fails to accomplish as much as the Choice Band set. Dusknoir has alternative coverage options available, such as Brick Break and Rock Slide. These moves are useful against specific targets, such as Pawniard and Articuno, respectively, though Dusknoir would rather not forgo any of the listed options. Shadow Punch is more powerful than Shadow Sneak, but lacks priority and is weak. Dusknoir can run a SubPunch set, though it is better off being played as an all-out offensive spinblocker, and Pokemon such as Poliwrath run SubPunch sets better. Toxic can wear down walls. Dusknoir's access to Calm Mind and an array of special attacks make a special set a possibility, though its meager Special Attack and Speed limit the potential of such a set.

Checks and Counters
########

**Dark-types**: Dark-type attackers such as Pawniard, Cacturne, and Sneasel can put the hurt on Dusknoir, though they must be wary of the prospect of taking a hit from a super effective coverage move. If a foe such as Sneasel or Pawniard happens to be running Pursuit, then it can hit a Dusknoir locked into Shadow Sneak on the switch for great damage.

**Physically Bulky Pokemon**: Many physically bulky Pokemon, such as Gurdurr, Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gourgeist-XL, Pelipper, and Tangela, can take hits from Dusknoir and cripple it with status, set up, heal off damage taken from Dusknoir's attacks, Knock Off Duskoir's Choice Band, or just simply outdamage it, though most need to be wary of Trick. Mega Audino gets a special mention for being unaffected by Trick.

**Status**: Poison and burn from users of Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Scald, such as Seismitoad and Weezing, wear Dusknoir down and limit its longevity. Burn also weakens Dusknoir's physical potential.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types such as Golurk and Mismagius hit Dusknoir hard with their super effective STAB moves and outspeed Dusknoir, assuming that it is not locked into Shadow Sneak.
 
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Since Dusknoir has a great physical movepool and a decent Attack stat, perhaps a Choice Band set could at least be mentioned? Dusknoir makes a somewhat cool physical attacker with good coverage and fine bulk too so it doesn't look like a shabby choice for a physical attacker. Golurk is obviously better but Dusknoir is a cool offensive spinblocker that can put up a fight with Kabutops and Cryogonal, the two premier spinners in NU. It has priority too with is cool, either in the form of Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch, and it has Pursuit which is kind of fun too. Something like this, to put it into perspective.

Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Punch / Shadow Sneak
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Fire Punch
move 4: Trick / Pursuit
ability: Pressure
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
nature: Adamant

I'm not 100% sure if this deserves a set as of now, but I think it should at least get a mention in OO because it's kind of a cool way to use Dusknoir and this also makes it a more offensively inclined spinblocker that packs bulk and beats both of NU's premier spinners. Spiritomb doesn't exist atm which is more of a reason to mention this.

Other than that this analysis looks good, nice job.
 
I think you need to emphasize how mediocre of a Pokemon Dusknoir is. Base 100 attack does not help much when your strongest available attack that Dusknoir is going to use is Earthquake, and it needs to be mentioned that its horrid HP stat means it gets worn down really fast. Invested 45 / 135 bulk is the same as 74 / 100 bulk, which is not bad, but the lack of a solid HP stat does not help Dusknoir whatsoever.
 
I'm not 100% sure if this deserves a set as of now, but I think it should at least get a mention in OO because it's kind of a cool way to use Dusknoir and this also makes it a more offensively inclined spinblocker that packs bulk and beats both of NU's premier spinners. Spiritomb doesn't exist atm which is more of a reason to mention this.
I think you need to emphasize how mediocre of a Pokemon Dusknoir is. Base 100 attack does not help much when your strongest available attack that Dusknoir is going to use is Earthquake, and it needs to be mentioned that its horrid HP stat means it gets worn down really fast. Invested 45 / 135 bulk is the same as 74 / 100 bulk, which is not bad, but the lack of a solid HP stat does not help Dusknoir whatsoever.
Added CB in OO and mentioned in the overview how Dusknoir's HP makes it prone to being worn down. :]
 
remove that set, its just bad

the only good dusknoir set is:

Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: Shadow Sneak
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Trick / Pursuit
ability: Pressure
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
nature: Adamant

tagging Omfuga because he used this a ton and knows on what type of team it works on / good teammates etc

redo the whole skeleton around this set pls
 
Fire Punch is cool on the CB set too if you have problems with Ferroseed, you still get SE coverage vs Grass-types as well. CB should definitely be the only set, the tank one never really does much of anything
 
Ice Punch is really nice to 2HKO Sandslash with CB (I think its a 3HKO if Sandslash knock CB off after the first one) tho, and Trick can criple Ferroseed. I wouldn't mind if its slashed after Ice Punch tho
 
yeah i dont think it should be the primary slash at all, it should either go after Ice Punch or in moves. I would prefer it to be slashed with Ice Punch though. Just depends what you're weak against :D
 
Revamped the analysis so that it's now centered around Choice Band Dusknoir.
 
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Fire punch also ohkos Cryogonal, which is quite important if you try to spinblock it and any other move fails to do so. So be sure to mention it alongside ferroseed as a target :)
 
Fire punch also ohkos Cryogonal, which is quite important if you try to spinblock it and any other move fails to do so. So be sure to mention it alongside ferroseed as a target :)
How did I forget to do this? Anyhow, cheers for the reminder! :]
 
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Hey - this thread has kinda died, so I'll give some input.
First off, I think you should mention team options that appreciate dusknoirs utility to pursuit trap psychic and ghost types, cripple walls with trick, and lure in Pokemon like ferroseed with fire punch.
I think most of those examples are pretty self explanatory, but you could mention that garbodor appreciates dusknoir trapping xatu, but it will need some prior damage since it's not stab. Feraligatr appreciates ferroseed being tricked or bopped with fire punch, and so does klinklang and other mons.
Another thing I would note is that in usage tips your should explain when it is necessary to trick away your choice band, as without the band dusknoir is really weak considering you're relying on shadow sneak for your only stab move.
Not QC, just my thoughts after using dusknoir for a little bit.
 
Hey - this thread has kinda died, so I'll give some input.
First off, I think you should mention team options that appreciate dusknoirs utility to pursuit trap psychic and ghost types, cripple walls with trick, and lure in Pokemon like ferroseed with fire punch.
I think most of those examples are pretty self explanatory, but you could mention that garbodor appreciates dusknoir trapping xatu, but it will need some prior damage since it's not stab. Feraligatr appreciates ferroseed being tricked or bopped with fire punch, and so does klinklang and other mons.
Another thing I would note is that in usage tips your should explain when it is necessary to trick away your choice band, as without the band dusknoir is really weak considering you're relying on shadow sneak for your only stab move.
Not QC, just my thoughts after using dusknoir for a little bit.
Good stuff here; implemented. :]
 
cut mentions of Mega Glalie, and try to emphasize somewhere that the only reasons to use this over CB Golurk are priority, pursuit/trick, and better spinblocker (Golurk is weak to Cryo and Kabutops STABs)

QC 1/3
 
Also mention that Pursuit allows Dusknoir to OHKO fleeing Cryogonal, which is a huge reason to use Dusknoir over other spinblockers.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 147-174 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 294-346 (104.6 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Just posting to say that I've removed mentions of Kabutops in light of its ascent to RU in the February usage-based tier updates. I've also mentioned Claydol under Pursuit's description in the moves section.
 
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in oo


  • A tank set running two attacks, Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split is a possibility, though it generally fails to accomplish as much as the Choice Band set.
  • Dusknoir has alternative coverage options available, such as Brick Break and Rock Slide. These moves are useful against specific targets, though Dusknoir would rather not forego any of the listed options.
  • Shadow Punch is more powerful than Shadow Sneak, though lacks priority and is still weak.
  • Dusknoir can run a SubPunch set, though it is better off being played as an all-out offensive spinblocker, and Pokemon such as Poliwrath do SubPunch better.
  • Toxic can be used to wear down walls.
  • Dusknoir can set up Trick Room for its team, though Pokemon such as Beheeyem do a better job of setting up and utilizing Trick Room. beheeyem ?.. just remove that point
  • Access to Calm Mind and an array of special attacks make a special set a possibility, though Dusknoir's lacking Special Attack and Speed limit the potential of such a set.
  • Dusknoir can try a weather support set, though Pokemon such as Uxie and Volbeat do this job better. no.

why is gurdurr in c&c.... ghost types can take on dusknoir reliably?
revamp this c&c smh
 
how does gurdurr not beat it? also no ghost-types don't beat it reliably that's why they're checks and at the bottom nerdo.
 
how does gurdurr not beat it? also no ghost-types don't beat it reliably that's why they're checks and at the bottom nerdo.

SMH theres a lot of fat mons and out of all of them he mentions gurdurr lol, just really weird

just talk about physically bulky mons instead of just gurdurr 9.9
 
Hopefully looks a bit better now; I've added a physically bulky mons section in C&C (and removed the stuff from OO like you suggested) Soulgazer.
 
The Dark-type section should also make mention of Pursuit users, which can catch Dusknoir locked into Shadow Sneak for massive damage.

You don't have to go into such great detail for how each bulky Pokemon deal with Dusknoir. You can list down Pokes such as Gurdurr, Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gourgeist, Pelipper, Mega Audino, Tangela, Bouffalant, etc. and mention briefly what they can do to Noir in general, like status, set up, outhealing Dusknoir's efforts, Knocking Off Noir's Choice Band, or even just simply outdamaging it. You can give special mention to Mega Audino due to its immunity to Trick. Finally, you can just add that many physically Pokemon can take on Dusknoir if it is not locked into the correct move.

The status section should also add that burn also heavily weakens Dusknoir, as well as notable users of these moves.
 
The Dark-type section should also make mention of Pursuit users, which can catch Dusknoir locked into Shadow Sneak for massive damage.

You don't have to go into such great detail for how each bulky Pokemon deal with Dusknoir. You can list down Pokes such as Gurdurr, Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gourgeist, Pelipper, Mega Audino, Tangela, Bouffalant, etc. and mention briefly what they can do to Noir in general, like status, set up, outhealing Dusknoir's efforts, Knocking Off Noir's Choice Band, or even just simply outdamaging it. You can give special mention to Mega Audino due to its immunity to Trick. Finally, you can just add that many physically Pokemon can take on Dusknoir if it is not locked into the correct move.

The status section should also add that burn also heavily weakens Dusknoir, as well as notable users of these moves.
Did all of this.
 
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