Effects Overload

Leftovers + Protect or Aqua Ring + Leftovers = endless Substitutes. Yep, stall is going to be so trolly.
Who needs that when you have Poison Heal Roost Protect Gliscor ?

Are Status damage and Weather effect Overloaded ? Such as :
- Sandstorm raises Rock types' SpDef by x2.25
- Burn divides Atk by 3 (it would shut down Huge Power mons at least)
- Toxic Poison increases by... uh I don't know each turn
- Paralysis divides Speed by 6

There is an error in the OP : "stat stage changes are doubled [...]
  • Cotton Guard raises the user's Defense 3 5 stages.
  • Feather Dance lowers the foe's Attack 2 3 stages." (too lazy to quote properly, sorry)
=> It should be 6 and 4 stages respectively.
=> SD raises Atk by 4 stages.
Mega Mawile after a SD boost, without Huge Power :

+4 252+ Atk Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 118-139 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With Huge Power : guaranteed OHKO. (it can survive and phaze with Sturdy but only once and if Rocks are up, you're dead anyway)

MAWILE OHKOs FULLY INVESTED SKARMORY AFTER A SINGLE SD BOOST, ON A RESISTED HIT.

EDIT : If you like broken stuff, there are anything w/Shell Smash (Smash Pass ftw), Tail Glow Manaphy, Cosmic Power + Unaware Clefable...
 
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There is an error in the OP : "stat stage changes are doubled [...]
  • Cotton Guard raises the user's Defense 3 5 stages.
  • Feather Dance lowers the foe's Attack 2 3 stages." (too lazy to quote properly, sorry)
=> It should be 6 and 4 stages respectively.
  • Healing and critical hit/stat stage changes are doubled.
  • Things that multiply/divide something by a factor > 2 have that factor multiplied by 1.5. This applies to the above as well.

Are Status damage and Weather effect Overloaded ? Such as :
- Sandstorm raises Rock types' SpDef by x2.25
- Burn divides Atk by 3 (it would shut down Huge Power mons at least)
- Toxic Poison increases by... uh I don't know each turn
- Paralysis divides Speed by 6

None of these occur because they're not a move, item, or Ability.

Also, any more opinions about what should be done with Huge Power?
 
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None of these occur because they're not a move, item, or Ability.

Also, any more opinions about what should be done with Huge Power?

Wait for the meta to start - people should think outside the box a bit more before banning stuff. We have furfrou who counters every physical attacker ever and prankster worry seed whimsicott (who now can subseed you to hell and back.)
 
  • Healing and critical hit/stat stage changes are doubled.
  • Things that multiply/divide something by a factor > 2 have that factor multiplied by 1.5. This applies to the above as well.
Oh right, I'm stupid.
It's quite unclear though. Basically, it is :
- if a move raises/lowers a stat by less than 2 stages, its effect are doubled.
- if a move raises/lowers a stat by 2 or more stages, it's multiplied by 1.5
Or am I still wrong ?

For weather and status effects being Overloaded, it was more a suggestion than a question actually (Burn dividing Atk by 3 would have helped Stall), but it's your meta obviously, so do what you want.

Guts : multiplies Atk by 2.25 when statused + Facade : 210 BP when statused = GG

Other thoughts :
Weakness Policy is a lot more scary
Simple is a lot more scary, although Swoobat is rather meh. (Calm Mind = +4/+4)
Pressure Leftovers Sub protect Deoxys-S is a lot more scary
But all of that is bs compared to... Serene. Grace. Jirachi :

You said that added effects' probabilities are unaffected, but what about Serene Grace, which multiplies them by 2 ? If it's Overloaded like Huge Power (since it's an ability), then say hello to 90%-chance-of-flinching-scarf-Jirachi (it's still less broken than MegaMawile tho). Also Togekiss has a 30% chance of raising all her stats by 2 with Ancient Power, Air Slash and a very scary Tri-Attack.

EDIT : I have another solution for Huge Power and Serene Grace : Abilities aren't Overloaded. Regenerator, Pressure, Sheer Force, Adaptability, Guts, Simple and Fur Coat are all somewhat broken anyway, and a buffed Choice Band is enough to get past Eviolite Chansey. It's quite radical, but otherwise the meta will be quite unbalanced.
 
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Oh right, I'm stupid.
It's quite unclear though. Basically, it is :
- if a move raises/lowers a stat by less than 2 stages, its effect are doubled.
- if a move raises/lowers a stat by 2 or more stages, it's multiplied by 1.5
Or am I still wrong ?

That is correct.

For weather and status effects being Overloaded, it was more a suggestion than a question actually (Burn dividing Atk by 3 would have helped Stall), but it's your meta obviously, so do what you want.

I'm on the fence about this because thematically, there's no reason not to do it, but it seems like it would create unnecessary complications. What I mean is that Overloading weather would involve doubling the residual damage from Sand and Hail, so in turn all residual damage would be doubled. Doubling residual damage would mean that SR's damage is doubled, making it even more meta-defining than it already is, and the residual damage from trapping moves, burn, and Toxic (it would be 1/8 + another 1/8 per turn) would be guaranteed 4HKOs on anything without recovery.

You said that added effects' probabilities are unaffected, but what about Serene Grace, which multiplies them by 2 ? If it's Overloaded like Huge Power (since it's an ability), then say hello to 90%-chance-of-flinching-scarf-Jirachi (it's still less broken than MegaMawile tho). Also Togekiss has a 30% chance of raising all her stats by 2 with Ancient Power, Air Slash and a very scary Tri-Attack.

I thought about Serene Grace when making this and decided I didn't want to say hello to those things. There's broken, and then there's uncompetitive. I'd like to stay away from uncompetitive.

EDIT : I have another solution for Huge Power and Serene Grace : Abilities aren't Overloaded. Regenerator, Pressure, Sheer Power, Adaptability, Guts, Simple and Fur Coat are all somewhat broken anyway, and a buffed Choice Band is enough to get past Eviolite Chansey. It's quite radical, but otherwise the meta will be quite unbalanced.

FireArrow's got a point in that we should wait for the meta to start to allow real (as in, not theorymon) opinions to form before we start changing everything. Gastro Acid nullifies the foe's Ability, so maybe Serperior (fastest user) and Shuckle (dat bulk) will see a rise in usage.

Speaking of starting the meta, anyone have an open server for when I'm done coding this?
 
Stall isn't completely lost, we have Furcoat urfrou which reduces physical damage by 66% now (divide damage by 3) along with the buffed cotton guard and leftovers.

252+ Atk Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Furfrou: 136-162 (38.4 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

hey! guess what? you for got to factor huge po-
wait... no fur coat either? nevermind.

anywho... so furfrou can take a hit. can it do anything back? I doubt it. attack similar to talonflame, no toxic... what CAN it do?

Ok... so let's say it CAN'T do much. what would the mawile do? set up 2 swords dances to get to +6. even if it U-turns out, that's 2-3% HP for 1 swords dance boost.
 
hey! guess what? you for got to factor huge po-
wait... no fur coat either? nevermind.

anywho... so furfrou can take a hit. can it do anything back? I doubt it. attack similar to talonflame, no toxic... what CAN it do?

Ok... so let's say it CAN'T do much. what would the mawile do? set up 2 swords dances to get to +6. even if it U-turns out, that's 2-3% HP for 1 swords dance boost.

You wouldn't switch out, you'd stall it out. Set up cotton guard while Mawile sets up swords dance (a +6 play rough hitting +6 Def does the same as +0/+0 (45% max.))

4 Atk Furfrou Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 38-45 (12.5 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
You basically spam that until it dies, resting when needed. Remember, leftovers now heals for 12.5% a turn and Mawile has no recovery.
 
You wouldn't switch out, you'd stall it out. Set up cotton guard while Mawile sets up swords dance (a +6 play rough hitting +6 Def does the same as +0/+0 (45% max.))

4 Atk Furfrou Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 38-45 (12.5 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
You basically spam that until it dies, resting when needed. Remember, leftovers now heals for 12.5% a turn and Mawile has no recovery.

yes, but mawile still scores a 3HKO after leftovers, so furfrou can do only about 1/4 mawile's health before mawile KOs it, unless furfrou usesa healing move, but all it has is ResTalk. protect can help lefties a bit, but...

EDIT: I found out broken special threat!

the life orb was a representation of the buffed adaptability, and +1 Spd is the buffed eviolite.

+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 273-322 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

3HKOing the tier's #1 best special wall? after 1 setup turn? just wow.
 
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yes, but mawile still scores a 3HKO after leftovers, so furfrou can do only about 1/4 mawile's health before mawile KOs it, unless furfrou usesa healing move, but all it has is ResTalk. protect can help lefties a bit, but...

I realized that right after I posted, becuase mawile will get 3 hits in before furfrou can wake up. We still have worry seed whimsicott, but that can't switch in...
 
Just look at the health stall jumpluff will get back with leftovers, belly drum azumarill's attack and yveltal (or something else)'s Knock Off...
And Draining Kiss on klefki just got real
 
That is correct.



I'm on the fence about this because thematically, there's no reason not to do it, but it seems like it would create unnecessary complications. What I mean is that Overloading weather would involve doubling the residual damage from Sand and Hail, so in turn all residual damage would be doubled. Doubling residual damage would mean that SR's damage is doubled, making it even more meta-defining than it already is, and the residual damage from trapping moves, burn, and Toxic (it would be 1/8 + another 1/8 per turn) would be guaranteed 4HKOs on anything without recovery.



I thought about Serene Grace when making this and decided I didn't want to say hello to those things. There's broken, and then there's uncompetitive. I'd like to stay away from uncompetitive.



FireArrow's got a point in that we should wait for the meta to start to allow real (as in, not theorymon) opinions to form before we start changing everything. Gastro Acid nullifies the foe's Ability, so maybe Serperior (fastest user) and Shuckle (dat bulk) will see a rise in usage.

Speaking of starting the meta, anyone have an open server for when I'm done coding this?
A 90% flinch chance is not uncompetitive. 90% means you have reached a point where it is no longer hax. At that point, it is hax if the foe manages to act through it. That is a completely reasonable dice roll, equivalent to the chance of missing with a move like Rock Blast. Swagger was uncompetitive as it was a completely stupid 50-50 dice roll that if it goes in your favour, quickly spirals out of control to shut down the foe. Additionally, if the 50-50 fails you, you die. It is far too much weight on a completely even dice roll. But again, 90% (85.5% after accuracy) is past the point of hax and up to the point of "start carrying Inner Focus now".

Oh right, I'm stupid.
It's quite unclear though. Basically, it is :
- if a move raises/lowers a stat by less than 2 stages, its effect are doubled.
- if a move raises/lowers a stat by 2 or more stages, it's multiplied by 1.5
Or am I still wrong ?

For weather and status effects being Overloaded, it was more a suggestion than a question actually (Burn dividing Atk by 3 would have helped Stall), but it's your meta obviously, so do what you want.

Guts : multiplies Atk by 2.25 when statused + Facade : 210 BP when statused = GG

Other thoughts :
Weakness Policy is a lot more scary
Simple is a lot more scary, although Swoobat is rather meh. (Calm Mind = +4/+4)
Pressure Leftovers Sub protect Deoxys-S is a lot more scary
But all of that is bs compared to... Serene. Grace. Jirachi :

You said that added effects' probabilities are unaffected, but what about Serene Grace, which multiplies them by 2 ? If it's Overloaded like Huge Power (since it's an ability), then say hello to 90%-chance-of-flinching-scarf-Jirachi (it's still less broken than MegaMawile tho). Also Togekiss has a 30% chance of raising all her stats by 2 with Ancient Power, Air Slash and a very scary Tri-Attack.

EDIT : I have another solution for Huge Power and Serene Grace : Abilities aren't Overloaded. Regenerator, Pressure, Sheer Force, Adaptability, Guts, Simple and Fur Coat are all somewhat broken anyway, and a buffed Choice Band is enough to get past Eviolite Chansey. It's quite radical, but otherwise the meta will be quite unbalanced.
Actually, Simple with the boost from this meta would turn Calm Mind into +6. Things that divide/multiply by a factor ≥ 2 have their effect multiplied by 1.5. So Simple = 3x stat changes. Calm Mind is already +2/+2, so that becomes an instant +6/+6.
 
A 90% flinch chance is not uncompetitive. 90% means you have reached a point where it is no longer hax. At that point, it is hax if the foe manages to act through it. That is a completely reasonable dice roll, equivalent to the chance of missing with a move like Rock Blast. Swagger was uncompetitive as it was a completely stupid 50-50 dice roll that if it goes in your favour, quickly spirals out of control to shut down the foe. Additionally, if the 50-50 fails you, you die. It is far too much weight on a completely even dice roll. But again, 90% (85.5% after accuracy) is past the point of hax and up to the point of "start carrying Inner Focus now".

-The enemy is not playing the game literally 90% of the time.

-Somehow is competitive anyway.

"Competitive"-ness isn't just about the random factor -it's about the question of what extent player participation matters. If a fast (Keeping in mind Choice Scarf works better in this meta) Pokemon gets going, it can sweep your entire team without you ever having any influence on the outcome of the match. This requires you to have no Inner Focus Pokemon and no priority, but demanding teams carry lots of priority to be able to push past stuff like Scarf Jirachi (100 Speed, more than doubled. Go ahead, try to outspeed it) or Speed Boost Yanmega spamming Air Slash is ludicrous, even for a silly meta like this one, especially since Inner Focus Pokemon trend away from significant bulk. Imagine Choice Specs Yanmega, which is, again, a more than 200% increase in its damage, and after one turn Speed Boost will put it ahead of everything but Choice Scarfers -and after two turns you'll have to be a lightning fast Scarfer to pull ahead. And after three turns... I dunno, maybe Scarfed Deoxys Speed will go faster?

Swagger was also stupid because, unlike a lot of luck-based stuff in Pokemon, "Swagplay" (Swagger followed by Foul Play) was 100% legitimate before any luck came into play -that is, even if the enemy never smacked themselves, it was an effective thing to be doing, and then the fact that they had good odds of smacking themselves and missing their turn just made it ludicrously prone to winning off raw luck, when it was already a worthwhile thing to do. (Especially since Klefki has Prankster Swagger, so even switching out to reset Swagger just means it tosses it out again before you move)

On the plus side, Mega Mawile is banned from OU anyway, so that makes it less overwhelmingly problematic how powerful Huge/Pure Power are. Of course, Mega Medicham is still around... and having seen how ridiculous 100 Attack Huge Power Azumarill was in Stat Switch, which is not much stronger than Overload Azumarill... though Stat Switch Azumarill was also 100 Speed... but here Choice Scarf more than doubles Speed... ugh.

Another reason this will be offense-heavy regardless is that, super healing or no, you've got crits everywhere. Any move with a boosted critical hit ratio is now a 50% crit rate, and adding a Scope Lens to a Pokemon makes anything that isn't an increased critical hit ratio a 50% crit rate. Oh, and Focus Energy makes everything a crit, no Scope Lens needed. So put up defenses, and watch as totally random Pokemon just go lolnope to your boosts, never mind that they're double strength. This also means Unaware is just less effective in the first place, even though you'd think it would be more important -even before you just flinch Clefable or Quagsire to death, crits don't care about Unaware. (I'm unclear as to whether Unaware ignores Focus Energy or not, but it's relatively trivial -it doesn't ignore innate move rates nor the Scope Lens boost regardless)
 
-The enemy is not playing the game literally 90% of the time.

-Somehow is competitive anyway.

"Competitive"-ness isn't just about the random factor -it's about the question of what extent player participation matters. If a fast (Keeping in mind Choice Scarf works better in this meta) Pokemon gets going, it can sweep your entire team without you ever having any influence on the outcome of the match. This requires you to have no Inner Focus Pokemon and no priority, but demanding teams carry lots of priority to be able to push past stuff like Scarf Jirachi (100 Speed, more than doubled. Go ahead, try to outspeed it) or Speed Boost Yanmega spamming Air Slash is ludicrous, even for a silly meta like this one, especially since Inner Focus Pokemon trend away from significant bulk. Imagine Choice Specs Yanmega, which is, again, a more than 200% increase in its damage, and after one turn Speed Boost will put it ahead of everything but Choice Scarfers -and after two turns you'll have to be a lightning fast Scarfer to pull ahead. And after three turns... I dunno, maybe Scarfed Deoxys Speed will go faster?

Swagger was also stupid because, unlike a lot of luck-based stuff in Pokemon, "Swagplay" (Swagger followed by Foul Play) was 100% legitimate before any luck came into play -that is, even if the enemy never smacked themselves, it was an effective thing to be doing, and then the fact that they had good odds of smacking themselves and missing their turn just made it ludicrously prone to winning off raw luck, when it was already a worthwhile thing to do. (Especially since Klefki has Prankster Swagger, so even switching out to reset Swagger just means it tosses it out again before you move)

On the plus side, Mega Mawile is banned from OU anyway, so that makes it less overwhelmingly problematic how powerful Huge/Pure Power are. Of course, Mega Medicham is still around... and having seen how ridiculous 100 Attack Huge Power Azumarill was in Stat Switch, which is not much stronger than Overload Azumarill... though Stat Switch Azumarill was also 100 Speed... but here Choice Scarf more than doubles Speed... ugh.

Another reason this will be offense-heavy regardless is that, super healing or no, you've got crits everywhere. Any move with a boosted critical hit ratio is now a 50% crit rate, and adding a Scope Lens to a Pokemon makes anything that isn't an increased critical hit ratio a 50% crit rate. Oh, and Focus Energy makes everything a crit, no Scope Lens needed. So put up defenses, and watch as totally random Pokemon just go lolnope to your boosts, never mind that they're double strength. This also means Unaware is just less effective in the first place, even though you'd think it would be more important -even before you just flinch Clefable or Quagsire to death, crits don't care about Unaware. (I'm unclear as to whether Unaware ignores Focus Energy or not, but it's relatively trivial -it doesn't ignore innate move rates nor the Scope Lens boost regardless)
Yes, flinch locking would be stupid and overcentralizing. That's not uncompetitive, that's just broken. The two are distinct. Having Serene Grace be affected would likely prove broken due to flinch locking. (Note, not flinch hax because there's no actual hax involved.) But it's still not uncompetitive. Uncompetitive is literally about the dice roll. Combos aren't uncompetitive in fighting games, and that's exactly what you have here. A combo in a turn-based system.

There is almost an element of uncompetitiveness because they have no chance to react past team preview. At the same time, however, the same could be said about various crappy OU teams: beyond absurd luck, they may have absolutely no way to stop a Scizor (for example) from setting up a Swords Dance, or two, or even three, and sweeping their team. In such a situation, the outcome is predetermined, and the only difference between that and flinchlock is whether they are given the illusion of influencing the outcome of events. Accomplish literally nothing after picking an option, or accomplish literally nothing without picking an option. The difference is that the pre-match options to deal with Scizor (just about anything with a Fire-type move, anything that can take a hit and carries Roar or Whirlwind, things like Unaware that can ignore its boosting attempts completely and/or out-boost, Will-O-Wisp to cripple it, anything that can win a boosting war and countersweep) are far more varied than the options to deal with flinch lock (Inner Focus or Steadfast with the ability to take a hit, faster Scarfers, Shield Dust, high-powered priority, Speed Boost + Protect, something with priority passive damage and absurd tanking abilities).

Swagger is stupid because it puts so much on that 50-50. Raising your opponent's Attack on purpose to boost Foul Play is a good tactic, since that means you can use their (invested) Attack stat against them while investing in your own defences. At the same time, however, it's risky because that boosted Attack can also turn any attack on you from a 3HKO or 4HKO into a 2HKO. If that 50-50 works in your favour, you're fine. If it doesn't, however, you are horribly screwed. The roll of the dice on that first 50-50 can make or break the game, unless the foe misplays such that it doesn't matter, such as trying to status you when you set up a Substitute on the first turn instead of trying to attack and getting hit with Swagger. It might also be broken on top of being uncompetitive, as barring specific teambuilding even the optimal course of action for the opponent can lead to a 50-50 chance.
 
90% flinch would be ok! it's still 10% than in Haxmons!

Oh god, Sniper Crits. Sniper is 3x, while the regular crit is 3x. So a snipers crit is nine times the normal damage...
252+ Atk Beedrill Poison Sting vs. 8 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 710-836 (219.8 - 258.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(710, 716, 726, 734, 744, 752, 758, 768, 776, 786, 794, 800, 810, 818, 828, 836)
That is Poison sting my friend. (Btw, I just multiplied the BP to make it easy to calc)Megadrill: Outclassed.
Seriously, give that thing a scope lens, baton pass it some speed (waste of time giving it attack), and watch the world burn (but please use Poison Jab, XScissor, Brick Break, and UTurn)
 
No. The effect on crits/Sniper is laid out in the OP, and it increases damage to 3.375% ie somewhat more than triple damage. The framing itself indicates that base crit damage multiplier is not modified, and even if it were it wouldn't be 9 times damage. It would be less than 6.

Furthermore, Adaptability gets a boost too, increasing damage to 2.66666% of base damage. This is less than the crit boost, but Mega Beedrill has ludicrous Attack over Beedrill, so the final result would still be more damage from Mega Beedrill, in addition to Mega Beedrill not requiring any Baton Pass shenanigans to get going.

Now, Sniper does make Fearow more viable and would make Kingdra blatantly OP if it weren't for all the other nonsense running around. But not for Beedrill, no.

That does have me wondering if crit damage is included though. The OP covering Sniper suggests it's excluded, but it's not clear.
 
It is excluded, because it's not an effect of the moves themselves but rather just something that can happen.

One of these days, I'll stop putting off coding this thing.
 
Come @ me (Whimsicott) @ Big Root
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD or Spe
Calm / Timid Nature
- Cotton Guard / Tailwind
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed / Taunt
- Fake Tears / Confide

Absorbs 169% of damage dealt with Giga Drain, and has insane boosting moves with priority.
 
How does Poison Heal work? does gliscor get 25 percent backe every turn.

Does this effect negatve effects as well such as life orb recoil(20 percent recoil?)
Life orb hits like a truck with a multiplier of 1.69, not to mention on shear force 2.68
 
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