Empoleon based SS Team (First OU RMT)

Kachalski

Hello. I am quite a novice on the Metagame, but with some success in battles, I am not a complete Newbie to the idea. Now it's time to get on with the show.​

Team at a Glance​


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Team in Detail​


hippowdon.png

Hippowdon @ Lum berry
252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Ability: Sand Stream
Careful (+ SpD -SpA)​

Earthquake
Roar
Slack-Off
Stealth Rock​

This set gets me off to a flying start. I took the advice to change to this set, and found it fantastic. Lum Berry is important, as it garntee's Stealth Rock, unless Taunt, but Hippowdon can be bought back later on.​

Top 10 Leads Of July 2009​

Azelf: SR, then Roar
Metagross: I usually SR first, then EQ, if he hasn't exploded by then.
Jirachi: Trick lead Jirachi is an annoying little so and so, I have problems here, especially if I use Stealth Rock first.
Swampert: I often set-up the rocks, then Roar
Aerodactyl: Straingly, never had any problems, he uses Taunt, I switch to a OHKO 'Mon, simple.
Infernape: I can now SR, then hope to get a lucky EQ in.
Hippowdon: SR, then Roar
Ninjask: Roar straight away, then set up SR when he is gone.
Bronzong: SR, then Roar
Roserade: Lum Berry blocks the Sleep, while I use Stealth Rock. I then Roar away, if I'm not now asleep.
Synergy​

Water: Goes to Empoleon, Starmie
Grass: Goes to Gliscor, Scizor​


empoleon.png

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
12 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature (SpA+ / Atk-)​

Substitute
Agility
Surf
Ice Beam​

SubPetaya is the single most difficult Pokemon to set up, but when it is, it hits down like a hammer. 1 Agility out-speeds all Pokemon except for Scarf, 2 outspeeds everything, Scarf or not. I have a problem with Priority, but I can usually score 3-4 KO's. It's annoying to be stopped then any minimally Bulky Water.​

Synergy​

Electric: Goes to Gliscor, Rotom-H, Hippowdon
Fighting: Goes to Gliscor, Rotom-H
Ground: Goes to Gliscor, Rotom-H​

gliscor.png

Gliscor @ Leftovers
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Impish (+Def - SpA)​

Earthquake
Taunt
U-Turn
Stone Edge​

I follow advice, and found this set really effective. I took out Roost and put in Stone Edge, just to stop me being walled by levitating Pokemon, especially if my other Pokemon can't take much more.​

Synergy​

Ice: Goes to Empoleon, Starmie, Scizor, Rotom-H
Water: Goes to Empoleon, Starmie, Rotom-H​

starmie.png

Starmie @ Leftovers
136 HP / 92 Def / 64 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid (+Spe - Atk)​

Surf
Thunderbolt
Recover
Rapid Spin / Ice Beam​

This guy is so useful as a Rapid Spinner. The given EV's allow me to outspeed and KO Infernape, while still taking his CC. I am looking for something to replace Rapid Spin, as Taunt from Gliscor stops Skarmory's Spikes. I was thinking maybe Ice Beam, as only Lanturn (that I know of) Resists Boltbeam Surf.​

Synergy​

Electric: Goes to Gliscor, Rotom-H, Hippowdon
Dark: Goes to Empoleon, Scizor
Grass: Goes to Gliscor, Scizor
Ghost: Goes to Scizor, Empoleon​

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Rotom-H @ Leftovers
252 HP / 168 Def / 40 SpA / 48 Spe
Bold (+Def - Atk)​

Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Will-O-Wisp/ HP [Ground] / HP [ Ice]
Overheat​

I recent idea I had, and he fits this team fantastically. The given EV's allow the same Gyarados counter ability as Porygon2, but he can also counter Rapid Spinners, Forretress, Scizor, and the recent problem I have been having with Electivire. I think I can tweak the EV's though, as while Porygon2 and Rotom-H have the same base SpA, but this time, Rotom-H gains STAB from Thunderbolt, so I may be able to take a couple of EV's out of SpA and put them into Spe, but I havn't ran the calculations. I am considering HP [Ground] over WoW, as the only way to counter Electivire is the throw Neutral STAB Shadow Balls, and Overheats, neither would do enough in the time given. Although, HP [Ice] Might give me soem coverage.​

Synergy​

Ghost: Goes to Scizor, Empoleon
Dark: Goes to Empoleon, Scizor​

scizor.png

Scizor @ Choice Band
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant (+Atk - SpA)​

Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Superpower
Pursuit​

What else can I say. He has let me win fights when it seems like I would lose. Rounds off the team perfectly.​

Synergy​

Fire: Goes to Starmie, Gliscor, Hippowdon​

Thank you. I thought it would be alright to bump, seeing as the original post was only 3 days ago.​

Specilised Threat List​

A list fo the things that have been defeating me. (Note: I use Netbattle for team testing, because the battle information on Shoddy is to fast. I am using this Porygon set:​

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
Bold​

HP [Fire]
Ice beam
Thunderbolt
Recover​

Instead of the Rotom-H)​

Jirachi: My team has no way of countering the sheer terror that is Jihaxi. It usually takes around 3 of my Pokemon to take it down. I think Rotom-H could kill it with Fire though.
Celebi: *explisit* Subseed Celebi slowy KO's my team. Thanks to the typing, my only Taunt Pokemon, Gliscor, can't score a KO. I need big help here. I think Rotom-H could counter again though. Oh, and even SubPetaya Empoleon's Ice Beam can't OHKO it.
Swampert: -.- This thing is a right pain in the ass to take down. I can score lucky with Porygon2 and Freeze with Ice Beam, but that is about it. I'm fairly certain Rotom-H can't counter this guy.
Vaporeon: Same as Swampert, Thunderbolts from my team can't scratch this guy hard enough for Wish/Protect to not work.
Machamp: Same as Celebi, except I have to rely on getting up SubPetaya Empoleon to KO this guy.
Togekiss: *swears for 5 minutes* Nothing on my team can take this guy down. He then proceds to KO my team.
Suicune: Same issue as Vaporeon, except this guy packs Sleep Talks.​

I havn't posted in a week due to being quite busy, but I thought it would be ok to rebump this team after play-testing for a while.​
 
I would use SubPetaya Empoleon over the current set, as it is probably the most effective lategame sweeper in OU.
 
Problems:

Stall breaking

How to fix:

The synergy is good, but your going to switch-out most of the time due to how easily someone like Blissey can switch in. I don't understand scarfing Empoleon when you already have Porygon and Starmie to check those guys? I think your better off pulling off the SubPetaya set to break some ground for stall

Empoleon
@ Petaya Berry
Modest Nature (SpA+ / Atk-)
12 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe

- Substitute
- Agility
- Surf
- Ice Beam

This can break Stall if their not prepared. Overall, this thing has a higher chance of sweeping than the Scarf set normally did. The Scarf set only checked guys like Gyarados and Infernape, when you have Porygon and Starmie to do that. The basic strategy is to Agility on a switch out then keep Sub-ing until you have Petaya under your belt and at the same time be at Torrent range. Surf / Ice Beam provides decent coverage.

With that being said, I got a couple of more fixes in my mind. Hipopowdon needs to fix his EV to check SD Lucario. I think you want a 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD to balance both side of spectrum and allow you to survive a CC from Lucario after one sd boost. You want your movesets to be Earthquake / Roar / Slack Off / Stealth Rock with leftovers. Hippowdon screams for Slack Off and Thunder / Ice Fang is not required because its too weak to pull of some important KOs anyways imo. On Gliscor, you could consider a different moveset to break Stall better: U-turn / Taunt / Earthquake / Roost. With the sand streaming, your ability is activated and Taunt screws with Blissey, Skarmory, Scarf-less Rotom, allowing you to U-turn to other guys to set up easier. Great team overall.
 
Thanks for the excellent advice Franky, I have been having problems with being stalled, due to mainly special set up.
 
LO Starmie can destroy everything on your team, save Porygon2. Your Starmie appears to do very little for the team, as you have no Pokes weak to SR and Gliscor and Hippowdon can KO Infernape anyway. Might I suggest Lanturn over Starmie:

name: Special Sponge
item: Leftovers
ability: Volt Absorb
nature: Calm
EVs: 40 HP / 192 SpA / 240 SpD / 36 Spe

~Surf
~Thunderbolt
~Ice Beam
~Thunder Wave / Toxic

Counters Starmie completely and can paralyze Salamence and Gyarados (or OHKO Salamence with Ice Beam).
 
Using a Pokemon able to defeat Empoleon's primary counters will allow an easier late game sweep with the Sub-Petaya set. Grass Knot on that set is outclassed by Ice Beam, as Grass Knot will only be breaking large bulky waters, as Vaporeon and Suicune will be the main direct counters to you setting up. Having a Pokemon like Magnezone, Raikou, or Specs Jolteon can soften these threats, as well as make them hesistant to switch in. Having a Screener may not be that bad of an idea, as Empoleon cannot afford to take an unnecessary blow as he comes in. Also, it is much harder to switch Empoleon in on any Pokemon except a support one, as many Pokemon who have attacks he resists also have ones he does not (Ex: Earthquake, Brick Break). Make sure that your team's only weaknesses include ones that Empoleon resists, this essentially forces your opponent to let Empoleon come in. Empoleon's resistances include Water, Dragon, Ice, Rock, Dark, Psychic, Ghost, Poison [immune], Normal, Flying, and Bug. If you cannot find a move to let Empoleon come in on, then your team must have similar weaknesses as Empoleon. The Rotom appliances are arguably the best partner to Empoleon, being immune to both Ground and Fighting, and resisting Electric. Gliscor does this even better in your case, as he lures Ice attacks for Empoleon to come in on. Good job using Gliscor! To get Gliscor in easier, it might be smart to have CB Tyranitar as your lure. (Tyranitar --> Gliscor --> Empoleon) Scizor's presence isn't necessary, as Tyranitar beats everything Scizor can and more (somewhat). Tyranitar unlike Scizor doesn't lure in the Rotom forms or Magnezone (which prevent the switch in and set up of Empoleon). A stronger lead with the ability to phaze is definitely a better option (consider using Swampert for his Electric immunity and great Defense, as well as Roar). I know Hippowdon can do this, as it's your choice between the two. Flygon is a good replacement for Gliscor as he also lures Ice attacks, isn't weak to Water like Gliscor, and can be an effective Revenge killer. He has U-Turn for scouting as well. Porygon 2 isn't that good of a choice unless you plan on using him lure Fighting attacks (which go to Gliscor). Porygon 2 is only if your team has trouble with Gyarados, so keep him if you do. A Rapid Spinner may not be completely necessary, however, Starmie has a lot of uses if you want to use him, one being his ability to soften up other Grass types, lure in Blissey, and be the #1 counter to Infernape, if you have problems with him once again. After some changes, your ideal team layout would look like this:

Hippowdon (Swampert)/ Empoleon/ Gliscor/ Tyranitar/ Porygon 2/ Starmie

Not a lot of change, only that Scizor is replaced. Scizor draws in Fire attacks, and without a need for Heatran's presence on the team, he isn't necessary. You have two lures for Fighting attacks in case Tyranitar is picked on by Scizor. Gliscor handles Lucario (make him Jolly), he also lures Gyarados for your Porygon 2. Starmie handles MixInfernape, and Empoleon cleans up. After these changes, your weaknesses would include:

- Breloom: Having a sleep absorber might be useful, I suggest Starmie to be replaced by Crocune so you can beat Heatran and Infernape, as well as take the Spore.
- Gengar: Focus Blast horribly dents Tyranitar, so it might be a good idea to EV him to survive it, LO Gengar can plow through your team if Starmie is replaced (who outspeeds Gengar).
- Ninjask: If your Gliscor has Taunt, or Hippowdon/Swampert has Roar, you can remove this as a threat.
- SkarmBliss: Without a Mixed attacker or trapper on the team, this combo will be giving you trouble. You do not have a stat-upping Pokemon, so using the Tyraniboah set may benefit your team.
- Mamoswine: A un-CB version will certainly give you trouble without Starmie or Suicune's help.
- Smeargle: Like Breloom, only more bitchy, you need something to take the sleep, then Taunt it. It remains very annoying.
- MixMence: Will certainly dent the hell out of your team with Draco Meteor, having another Steel type or EVing Tyranitar to better take Special attacks might be useful. Also EVing Porygon2 to survive two Draco Meteors might be a good idea.

Lots of things are gunna give you trouble, but thats why you want to prevent your opponent from bringing them out, and only bringing out what you lure in. This will ease prediction, and make Empoleon come in easier. If you want to get rid of two slots to free one up, Scarf Rotom-H can easily replace both Porygon2 and Gliscor, able to outspeed and OHKO both Gyarados and Lucario. This will let you have a solitary counter to Salamence, but the loss of Gliscor's ability to Taunt and Roost and take advantage of Sand Veil will be sad. If anyone else has ideas on a better team layout, go ahead and outclass whatever I suggested. xD
 
Thank for the advice, I just wanted to post what I usually do for those Threats you outlined.

- Breloom: Your advice here is great, as I have had problems with this guy in the past
- Gengar: Scizor dominates this guy, Bullet Punch is a OHKO after SR Damage
- Ninjask: I fitted Hippowdon with Roar now, so no porblem
- SkarmBliss: I did need help with these two, not so much Skarmory, never been walled by him, but Blissey was always a pain. I have found that Gliscors Earthquake does about 70-80% Damage, so I need something that garentees.
- Mamoswine: havn't actually seen this guy, but Bullet Punch does the job from Scizor
- Smeargle: Same as Breloom
- MixMence: ScarfEmpoleon used to be my counter, but with the effectivness I was having with Subpetaya, it takes up both Porygon-2 and Starmie to take it down.

I just wanted to note about Tyranitar:

Tyranitar is interesting, as I have used him before, with little to none sucess. Hopefully, with a proper set up on this team, he could work. I just find the usefulness of Scizor great, except for the obvious Scarfzone Weakness. The problem with play-testig on Netbattle is that no- Rotom forms, at least until the next update. I have problems play-testing on Shoddy, as I can hardly read the Battle info, and get lost quite easly.
 
Try Hidden Power [Fire] on Porygon2 over Toxic. It expands the BoltBeam coverage well and gives you some cover against Steel types.
 
I'm wondering why you don't start out with Gliscor. Sure Stealth Rock is important but I would think Taunt might be more crucial to have, to prevent your opponent from setting up something like rain dance or trick room. If you could get Taunt and Stealth Rock on a single pokemon, I think you might be better off. Though... you've gotten sand stream well configured with your team, so I'm reluctant to break up your formation.

Your biggest problem I see is... if Hippodown is OHKO'd or status'd and you lose Scizor early enough, your team could be easily sweeped.
 
I mainly run Hippowdon as a sorta Suicide lead, I don't switch him out unless he has been tricked. And By the way, I ran a Team Builder chart, and found that I had no more then 2 Weaknesses of any type in my team, and I had a ton of Resistances.
 
Quick Fix: The EV's on Hippowdon are old, and need changing. The 88 SDef EV's are meant to take 3 Ice Beams from Tyraniboah. Well, Tyraniboah doesn't really exist anymore, so use a simple 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef spread. Also, use Leftovers.

Other than that...your team looks decent, and has some nice synergy with Gliscor and Empoleon. I do, however, see you losing to heavy stall, unless you can predict well with Scizor against Blissey. Taunt can help you out, but it can't win the battle for you.

As for your problem list...Have you noticed that almost all the pokemon there are hit by Toxic Spikes? This can also solve your stall problems. Thus, you should try out a Forretress.

Forry @ Leftovers
252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
Impish (+Def, -SAtk)
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Earthquake
Reflect
---

probably over Starmie or Scizor, but it works well anywhere, really. The Reflect can help Empoleon set up.

If you are concerned about the Fire weakness, you can try using a Tentacruel to set up Toxic Spikes. However, the EQ weakness really bites. Trust me. When writing the Tentacruel analysis, I specifically discouraged using Tentacruel and Empoleon on the same team for this reason, along with the Electric weak.

I can't really think of much else I can do without massively overhauling this team. Sorry.
 
I use Lum Berry for several reason. As mentioned before, with SR damage, Gengar is KO'd by Bullet Punch 100% of the time. I have seen Forretress in action before, but I would only put it over Starmie, losing my counter to Infernape, and letting him KO my team.
 
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