Gen 4 Empoleon LEad and general good stuff.

[BeastLink]

Hey guys! I am looking for assistance with a team I made recently, as I am not exactly sure how to optimize this squad. I really want to take gen4 OU much more seriously, as It's my favorite gen overall, and it hosts my favorite pokemon of all time: Empoleon. I made a pretty solid team using the notes and info from Smogon (you may tell immediately that most of these sets were pulled straight from Smogon), so I think the team is pretty solid. From playing with it, I’ve peaked at the 1300’s. This is a very average rating, I’m sure, so please don’t crucify me for my inept team building haha! If you would kindly rate my team, and maybe point out some, if not all, the things I can improve on, I’d greatly appreciate it!! Also, I am not necessarily married to any mons on this team. If there is something that can perform better on this squad, I am all ears. The ONLY pokemon I desperately want to be on this squad is Empoleon. I am also interested in the idea of a second pokemon who can provide Stealth Rock support.


Emperor (Empoleon) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Stealth Rock

This is the “Ace” of the team. Empoelon is extremely powerful, so I wanted him to be the one to set the tempo for the rest of the match. I oftentimes find that setting up stealth rocks with him can be a bit difficult for me, as clicking hydro pump is so crucial for kicking off that much needed early game momentum. The main problem I have is that this set can be kind of predictable, but it is extremely effective otherwise.


Dragonite (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage

This was my sweeper I chose to go with. I usually save this guy for the late game, preferably when I can switch him in safely and get that free DDance on a choice locked pkmn, or a pokemon that can’t really threaten him. The first two move choices are self-explanatory: Outrage for those crucial OHKO’s after rocks, Earthquake nails so many things for excellent damage. However, Extreme Speed was selected to make sure that my team doesn’t get beat out by something like a Mamoswine or Weavile by surprise or to pick off a weakened opponent. Extreme Speed has been working well for the most part. I think, with some optimization, that move choice can be changed to something better, maybe Fire Punch or Stone Edge.


Flygon (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

My revenge killer. I always bring this in on weakened opponents to bait out switches and punish with u-turn or to get a crucial kill. I’ve found this set so perfect that it basically doesn’t need much changing. What I have noticed though, is that I’ve been using this pokemon as a pivot into heatran. Most of my team does not like dealing with heatran defensively, so Flygon has been okay at checking it for me. I don’t know if this optimal to do at all, so maybe some different pokemon options or moves on the team will help me deal with Heatran a bit better.


Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- U-turn

Another revenge killer. Honestly, I love this scizor set too damn much. I’ve been seeing many choice scarf scizor sets on the ladder recently, which is really cool. I’m not sure if this is a great choice for this team, however it has been putting in WORK online. I am interested in trying out a faster Scizor with less bulk, but I also used this mon as a pivot from time to time. I am afraid that relinquishing the extra hp will make my team a bit less resilient. However, I do acknowledge that Scizor with 373 speed (jolly nature) would allow surprise KO’s on non-choice heatrans, rotoms, Latios/as, and many other pokemon who think they’re faster than me is really worth the consideration.


Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Overheat
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Infernape has so much punching power, it’s ridiculous. I use this guy as my wall breaker, and I usually bring him in if I end up getting a kill off of U-Turn. Stone Edge has CONSIDERABLY helped my team stave off enemy Gyarados, especially variants with Earthquake (threatening my poor magnezone). I don’t have many complaints or issues with this set. Honestly, I don’t even mind stealth rocks being up on my side of the field half the time. I will admit tho, it makes infernape very susceptible to getting beaten by priority moves. U-Turn helps form amazing pressure and scouting potential between Infernape, Scizor and Flygon. I am very used to using VoltTurn teams in later gens, so having it here is really nice for me.


Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Magnet Rise
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave

At first, I slept on this mon. I thought it was the weakest one on my team. I didn’t know HOW it helped dragonite so much, when I was getting beaten by so many other offensive threats in the tier. But then, I got Magnet Rise, and that immediately changed. Using Magnet rise allowed me to safely 1v1 Bronzongs with Earthquake, among some other seriously top steel mons who usually carry Earthquake as well! I use this magnezone as a trapper for enemy steel types, but I find it scarf when facing enemy Scizor, or when switching in on a Latias/os. I feel like magnezone is very powerful, but maybe I could improve the team overall with something stronger? I really like this move set and spread though.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk! Haha, but seriously, any and all advice will be well received! I am looking to improve as much as possible, and I feel like my fundamentals are strong in this game. I just want to push myself even further, at least in this metagame. I look forward to all of your feedback!​

 

[Pideous]

First off - this is a pretty nice team. It can be hard to get to grips with teambuilding in this tier, and there are a lot of traps beginners tend to fall into, like with unviable "ou" pokemon like Weavile and Snorlax, so this is a very good start. It has a solid game plan of taking momentum early and taking advantage of that to keep pressure up. Magnezone + Dragons is always a nice combo in enabling those Outrages earlier. It helps Scizor a lot too, which appreciates Jirachi being paralysed and Skarmory gone. It of course has some of the stylistic weaknesses of this kind of offense, such as great difficulty switching into Zapdos, a fear of Kingdra in rain and a lack of longevity pivoting around with hazards up, but these aren't worth dwelling on too much with this team.

There are some weaknesses I think you can help with just a couple of tweaks though, so I'll focus more on those. First - Lucario is a real issue since it can set up on something like choice locked Flygon and proceed to sweep. The only answer is hoping Flygon lives +2 Espeed, which is a bad roll even after only 1 switch into rocks. With 2 or more, its lights out. After that, you have to wear it down with CC defense drops and Life Orb recoil until Bullet Punch can KO it. (technically DNite can live an ESpeed after rocks, but its another roll and you get the point) Mach Punch on Infernape would alleviate this issue, but I don't necessarily recommend this, as I'll explain later. Instead, I recommend Choice Scarf > Leftovers on Magnezone. A set like this

Scarf Magnezone

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic

should do the trick. Choice Scarf Magnezone is an effective revenge killer of Lucario as long as it isn't weakened too much. Furthermore, you correctly identified Heatran as a pokemon this team has difficulty switching into. With HP Ground Scarf Zone, you can limit the amount of damage Heatran can do by forcibly removing it after it takes a kill, or even better, if it switches into U-Turn.

I suggest Toxic on Scarf Zone since it allows you to threaten a somewhat overlooked threat to this team - bulky Grounds. Swampert, Quagsire and especially Hippowdon can be problematic for this team. Hippowdon is only really threatened by Empoleon, the suicide lead of this team, and can heal with Slack Off so it will be difficult to brute force your way through. Running Toxic > Stone Edge on Flygon might help in this regard, but will make you weaker to Gyarados. Instead, I recommend running Breloom > Infernape. Breloom is much more consistent than Infenape in the wallbreaking role thanks to access to one of the most controversial moves in DPP - Spore. In addition to the instant incapacitation of a pokemon provided by sleep, Breloom also benefits from Poison Heal, allowing it to avoid being worn down by Rocks, Sand and Status, which conversely really limit the potential of Infernape. Finally, Breloom is one of the most effective ways to offensively take advantage of these ground types, due to the combination of its longevity, access to Spore, and type advantage. Something like

Breloom

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Superpower
- Seed Bomb
- Mach Punch

Should be fine, although you can feel free to change the set to your preference. Breloom also helps somewhat with Bronzong, which Zone will no longer be able to remove. Unless Bronzong has Lum, it will give Breloom the chance to throw off a Spore.

Finally, I'm slightly concerned that opposing Breloom could prove challenging to deal with. Regardless, I think the change to Dragonite of Choice Band > Yache Berry could be a good fit for this team. IMO Yache DD Nite fits better on a more aggressive set up spam archetype, to overload pokemon like Scarf Rotom to open up pokemon like Gyarados. Since this team will not be likely to keep rocks off in the early game, and uses Magnezone to remove Steels I think CB is the right pick. The immediate pressure of Banded Outrages should help pressure defence, and the boosted power of ESpeed can help in the offense matchup. This also lets you take advantage of Sleep Talk to keep momentum even against Breloom's Spore. Remember Choiced Sleep Talk fails after 1 use though. A set like

Band Nite

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Sleep Talk

seems fine.

That's all the advice I have for this team. The best way to learn will just be to play with a lot of different teams until you are comfortable with what works and what doesn't. Good luck!

 

[BeastLink]

This advice is SO THOROUGH! It's a little sad to see Infernape go, as he put in SO much work, but Breloom is a crazy powerful Mon too! Can you go a bit more indepth with the spread on Breloom? The ev choices specifically. I am also a little uneasy about all the choice items, but I will definitely give it a shot!

 

[Pideous]

That Breloom is a simple set with enough speed for neutral natured TTar and below and max attack. It doesn't matter too much what ev spread you go with I think. It's true that I probably suggested too many Choice items, so it might be worth trying a bulky SD variant of Scizor. For Scizor, I think a set like

SD Scizor

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 204 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Swords Dance
- Roost

could help with reducing the reliance on choice users. It works nicely with Scarf Zone in particular, and should be a slightly better fit. My suggestions aren't set in stone of course, use what you feel is best and keep experimenting in your teambuilding.

 

[Jeong]

Is it really worth wearing Rash nature and not Modest in Empo? You win a bit in attack but lose in SpD only having priority as physical response. It is normally useful vs Sash leads like Azelf/Aero combining HPump + Aqua but I don't know how important it is to use it like this sacrificing Ice Beam.

 

[BeastLink]

Is it really worth wearing Rash nature and not Modest in Empo? You win a bit in attack but lose in SpD only having priority as physical response. It is normally useful vs Sash leads like Azelf/Aero combining HPump + Aqua but I don't know how important it is to use it like this sacrificing Ice Beam.

Without Aqua jet, I can't 1v1 most leads. A Hydro + Aqua Jet 2hkos the most common leads in the game.

 

[Jeong]

Without Aqua jet, I can't 1v1 most leads. A Hydro + Aqua Jet 2hkos the most common leads in the game.

I mean to put IB for GK but I think it is a better option as it is to pressure Starmie and not make RSpin so easy but be careful with TBolt that will do more damage considering that you are Rash and even to make things like CM Cune uncomfortable.
Hm, your team is not bad but it has a lot of fighting spam and not only Lucario as they have said, a simple Machamp lead faster than your lead (Jolly) can be dangerous especially if it has Ice Punch. Breloom coming in with Spore + SubPunch is pretty much a sacrifice every inning. You only have Nite as a reliable change because Stealth Rock does not fit well either. Other threats come to mind such as Agili gross / Zapdos and CM Cune.

I wish I could help you but I think they already have. Scarf Zone with HP Ground seems like a good option to me since with Scizor you can attract other Zone or Heatran / Skarmory with Uturn and eliminate them with the Zone entry. Bearing this in mind CB Nite is not a bad idea since you can also enter Breloom with Spore thanks to Sleeptalk.

 

[BeastLink]

I mean to put IB for GK but I think it is a better option as it is to pressure Starmie and not make RSpin so easy but be careful with TBolt that will do more damage considering that you are Rash and even to make things like CM Cune uncomfortable.
Hm, your team is not bad but it has a lot of fighting spam and not only Lucario as they have said, a simple Machamp lead faster than your lead (Jolly) can be dangerous especially if it has Ice Punch. Breloom coming in with Spore + SubPunch is pretty much a sacrifice every inning. You only have Nite as a reliable change because Stealth Rock does not fit well either. Other threats come to mind such as Agili gross / Zapdos and CM Cune.

I wish I could help you but I think they already have. Scarf Zone with HP Ground seems like a good option to me since with Scizor you can attract other Zone or Heatran / Skarmory with Uturn and eliminate them with the Zone entry. Bearing this in mind CB Nite is not a bad idea since you can also enter Breloom with Spore thanks to Sleeptalk.

You're spot on! I use GK to check starmie, as I can make it really unsafe for Starmie to rapid spin away rocks. I am gonna make the changes for CB DNite, CS Zone and SwordsDance Scizor. I am also eager to try out Breloom!!

 

[BeastLink]

First off - this is a pretty nice team. It can be hard to get to grips with teambuilding in this tier, and there are a lot of traps beginners tend to fall into, like with unviable "ou" pokemon like Weavile and Snorlax, so this is a very good start. It has a solid game plan of taking momentum early and taking advantage of that to keep pressure up. Magnezone + Dragons is always a nice combo in enabling those Outrages earlier. It helps Scizor a lot too, which appreciates Jirachi being paralysed and Skarmory gone. It of course has some of the stylistic weaknesses of this kind of offense, such as great difficulty switching into Zapdos, a fear of Kingdra in rain and a lack of longevity pivoting around with hazards up, but these aren't worth dwelling on too much with this team.

There are some weaknesses I think you can help with just a couple of tweaks though, so I'll focus more on those. First - Lucario is a real issue since it can set up on something like choice locked Flygon and proceed to sweep. The only answer is hoping Flygon lives +2 Espeed, which is a bad roll even after only 1 switch into rocks. With 2 or more, its lights out. After that, you have to wear it down with CC defense drops and Life Orb recoil until Bullet Punch can KO it. (technically DNite can live an ESpeed after rocks, but its another roll and you get the point) Mach Punch on Infernape would alleviate this issue, but I don't necessarily recommend this, as I'll explain later. Instead, I recommend Choice Scarf > Leftovers on Magnezone. A set like this

Scarf Magnezone

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic

should do the trick. Choice Scarf Magnezone is an effective revenge killer of Lucario as long as it isn't weakened too much. Furthermore, you correctly identified Heatran as a pokemon this team has difficulty switching into. With HP Ground Scarf Zone, you can limit the amount of damage Heatran can do by forcibly removing it after it takes a kill, or even better, if it switches into U-Turn.

I suggest Toxic on Scarf Zone since it allows you to threaten a somewhat overlooked threat to this team - bulky Grounds. Swampert, Quagsire and especially Hippowdon can be problematic for this team. Hippowdon is only really threatened by Empoleon, the suicide lead of this team, and can heal with Slack Off so it will be difficult to brute force your way through. Running Toxic > Stone Edge on Flygon might help in this regard, but will make you weaker to Gyarados. Instead, I recommend running Breloom > Infernape. Breloom is much more consistent than Infenape in the wallbreaking role thanks to access to one of the most controversial moves in DPP - Spore. In addition to the instant incapacitation of a pokemon provided by sleep, Breloom also benefits from Poison Heal, allowing it to avoid being worn down by Rocks, Sand and Status, which conversely really limit the potential of Infernape. Finally, Breloom is one of the most effective ways to offensively take advantage of these ground types, due to the combination of its longevity, access to Spore, and type advantage. Something like

Breloom

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Superpower
- Seed Bomb
- Mach Punch

Should be fine, although you can feel free to change the set to your preference. Breloom also helps somewhat with Bronzong, which Zone will no longer be able to remove. Unless Bronzong has Lum, it will give Breloom the chance to throw off a Spore.

Finally, I'm slightly concerned that opposing Breloom could prove challenging to deal with. Regardless, I think the change to Dragonite of Choice Band > Yache Berry could be a good fit for this team. IMO Yache DD Nite fits better on a more aggressive set up spam archetype, to overload pokemon like Scarf Rotom to open up pokemon like Gyarados. Since this team will not be likely to keep rocks off in the early game, and uses Magnezone to remove Steels I think CB is the right pick. The immediate pressure of Banded Outrages should help pressure defence, and the boosted power of ESpeed can help in the offense matchup. This also lets you take advantage of Sleep Talk to keep momentum even against Breloom's Spore. Remember Choiced Sleep Talk fails after 1 use though. A set like

Band Nite

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Sleep Talk

seems fine.

That's all the advice I have for this team. The best way to learn will just be to play with a lot of different teams until you are comfortable with what works and what doesn't. Good luck!

I am not sure about CB Dragonite on this team. I find myself missing the DDance set because of the increased speed. Can you give me a bit more advice on how to interact with CB Dnite?

 

[Air2k]

Although there are some Flaws with your Team, Good job Teambuilding dude!
DPP is my favorite too :-)