Eruptions in Hawaii, A tale of Fire and Grass (UPDATED WITH CALCS)

Now, before we start I think I should give you some backstory on myself as a VGC player:
I started in 2015 where I played casually, always using my favorite core of Charizard Y with Venusaur, but never did any tournaments as there were none near by, Then came 2016, the rule set just did not suit me, but for the bit that I did play, I used Groudon and Xerneas, now came 2017 and I was still using Sun, with Torkoal and Lilligant, but I dumped the core for more common stuff like AFK and other things with Fini, but seeing Joohwan Kim do good with Torkoal and Lilligant (albeit very different sets) I was inspired, so here we go, I hope you guys enjoy!

Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
EVs: 116 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 140 Sp. Def
Nature: Quiet
IVs: 0 Atk, 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Overheat
- Protect

Now, this guy is probably one of my favorite Pokémon on this team, and part of the name of this thread, he works excellently with Lilligant, and prevents the opponent passively from setting up their Trick Room, I only ever bring Torkoal if I am bring Lilligant, as I don't find it wise to do otherwise, and therefore feel it is safe to have three Fire type attacks, Eruption is the main STAB, allowing Torkoal to do massive damage as long as he has full HP, Heat Wave is for when Torkoal is low, or when I want to go more offensive with Lilligant, Overheat is mostly used as a last minute nuke, or when I am down to a 1v1, the spread isn't anything special, I put some into Sp. Def because it was Torkoal's lowest Defense stat.

252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Hydro Vortex (160 BP) vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Torkoal in Sun: 150-176 (93.7 - 110%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Lilligant @ Focus Sash
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe
Nature: Modest
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- After You
- Sleep Powder
- Protect

This guy is the other half of my main lead, and I have found that it works great even once Torkoal is off the field, She works great with Bulu as well, and is my main Fini counter (Switch Torkoal for Bulu, OHKO with the boosted Solar Beam) I opted for Solar Beam over Leaf Storm because I liked the power at no cost, and as long as I can keep my weather up, it isn't a problem, After You is there for Torkoal, but I have also used it on Metagross, sometimes winning me games, Sleep Powder is obvious, allowing me to put to sleep anyone I don't want to deal with right then.

Tapu Bulu @ Lum Berry
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP, 28 Atk, 140 Def, 28 Sp. Def, 60 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Horn Leech
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect

This guy is the third and final part of my thread name trio, and with this spread is very bulky, and yet still has enough power to deal out some damage, this guy works wonders with Lilligant, I usually only bring him in if they have a huge grass weakness or Tapu Fini, both of which he deals with well, Horn Leech is STAB and complements this spread well, Leech Seed is to stall out Celesteela and other bulky Pokémon, but I only ever use it with Substitute up, Lum Berry is there because of all the Burns going around this meta game, and also is handy for Freeze from Ninetales or Toxic from... anything really.

252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Tapu Bulu: 144-172 (81.3 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

-1 244+ Atk Muk-Alola Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Tapu Bulu: 136-168 (76.8 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

68 SpA Gastrodon Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Tapu Bulu: 140-168 (79 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

4- SpA Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Tapu Bulu in Sun: 102-120 (57.6 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

180 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Tapu Bulu: 128-152 (72.3 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Gyarados @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 68 HP, 252 Atk, 12 Def, 4 Sp. Def, 172 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

This guy is great with the team, and way better than Gastrodon who I was using before, he adds a Ground immunity and Water resistance for Torkoal if needed, much needed Intimidate support, and a solid offensive presence, I took the spread off of Trainer Tower because I did not have much experience with the mon, and it works pretty well, nice and fast after a Dragon Dance, and hits like a truck, Waterfall is STAB, and provides the Z Move, Ice Fang helps me with Garchomp, Salamence and others weak to ice, Dragon Dance is for setting up on clear defensive play, this guy works great with Metagross, and I sometimes lead with the two.

Metagross @ Groundium Z
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP, 28 Atk, 20 Def, 116 Sp. Def, 92 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Protect

Well, here is my favorite member of the team, and one of my favorite Pokémon, he started as a Choice Band set, and I never changed the EVs as they seemed to still work, but I would love any suggestions on a better one, after seeing Theorymon's (namedrop) post about Groundium Z Metagross, I just had to try it out, and it is excellent, OHKOing Muk 50% of the time, beating Arcanine, Tapu Koko, and so many other common Pokémon, he works great with Lele, as she adds power to one of his STAB moves, and also works well with Gyarados, who I sometimes lead with, Meteor Mash is for STAB, along with beating the Tapu, and it's always great when it boosts attack, Earthquake is there for the Z Move, but can also be used alongside Gyarados, Zen Headbutt works great with Lele and is secondary STAB, allowing him to hit quite a few mons for supereffective damage.

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Metagross: 162-192 (86.6 – 102.6%) — 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Metagross: 78-94
(41.7 – 50.2%) — 0.4% chance to 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Metagross: 66-80 (35.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Sp. Def, 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt

This guy is the newest addition to my team, and I am loving it so far, that is why I have a very simple spread, and I would love a better one, she works great with Metagross, gives me a second counter to Celesteela with Thunderbolt, and does huge damage with Psychic, Moonblast is there to do damage to Dark Types, although I usually just use Psychic, and Dazzling Gleam can be helpful for 1v2 situations, that's about all I can say for this mon as I don't bring her into many battles, but without her I would not stand a chance in many situations.

Conclusion: As I said at the start, I love sun, and I think this is my best sun team yet, I plan to bring it to a local tournament at the end of next month, and would love any suggestions for making it better, thank you for reading, if you have any questions, or I left something out by accident, just ask for it and I will provide it.

RebornFX I added some calcs, if there are anymore you want, I am happy to add them
Last edited:
First off, what do any of the EVs do? The only thing you have told us is that Metagross should OHKO Muk 50% of the time, which it should be OHKOing all the time.
28+ Atk Metagross Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Muk-Alola: 214-254 (100.9 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So you took Sun Dude's team, replaced the strange sets with more standard ones and replaced Nihilego with Metagross? Nothing wrong with this, but it would be nice to get your thoughts one why you thought these were necessary changes to make. Just some initial thoughts since I'd rather not suggest significant changes before you explain your deviations from Sun Dude's team considering their distinct similarities.

Given the fact that you rarely use Overheat, you could consider using Nature Power in the 3rd slot. It's a really cool tech that would effectively allow you to have a grass STAB option alongside Bulu (though it would be a terrain boost rather than STAB) that doesn't rely on sun being up to work, or at least feeling safe clicking it against a potential Gigalith/Pelipper switch in. I personally feel this tech shines better with a Trick Room mode but I'm sure effectively having a secondary STAB of whatever terrain type is up could be useful, or at least as useful as Overheat. For the same reason (or at least a similar reason) for not wanting Solarbeam on Torkoal, I wouldn't recommend Solarbeam Lilligant. Honestly, without Grassium Z and with Bulu I'm not sure how necessary a Grass STAB is, and HP Fire is actually a nice tech for Kartana which except for Torkoal and I suppose Gyarados (though not really) your team is pretty weak against. Another potential option could be running Flamethrower over Ice Fang on Gyarados given that Salamence isn't all that common (and will probably be scared out by the fact that most Gyara run Ice Fang) and Rock Slide-less Garchomp is walled by Gyara anyway. However Flamethrower doesn't OHKO AV Kartana without the sun while HP Fire on Lilligant can with 212 EVs.
212+ SpA Lilligant Hidden Power Fire vs. 84 HP / 164 SpD Assault Vest Kartana: 148-176 (102 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Gyarados Flamethrower vs. 84 HP / 164 SpD Assault Vest Kartana: 92-112 (63.4 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Gyarados Flamethrower vs. 84 HP / 164 SpD Assault Vest Kartana in Sun: 140-168 (96.5 - 115.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Obviously Flamethrower is literally useless for everything other than Kartana, but it is certainly an option. Phillip Wingett ran Flamethrower on his scarf Gyarados at San Jose.
Also I'm not sure how well Waterium Z synergises with sun. Just seems like a waste of a Z move to click it in the sun, similarly to how Pelipper and Marowak are rarely paired together.
I don't think all of that speed is necessary on Lilligant, some bulk may allow you to turn some 2HKOs in to 3HKOs (haven't ran any calcs on this, I just presume this would be the case). Given that the only common status user is Arcanine which destroys Bulu in the sun anyway as well as Fini's prevalence, I think Lum isn't the best call for Bulu's item. Lefties is probably your best bet on this set. I'm not completely sold on Specs Lele on this team. I'm not sure the higher damage is all that necessary. Given that Bulu isn't scarfed, you could potentially scarf Lele just to increase the overall speed of an otherwise fairly slow team outside of Lilligant. Just some food for thought.
Reserving for a post tomorrow, too tired to do it tonight... However I will say that I accidentally calc'd without the adamant nature on Metagross.

I am actually gonna do this in stages starting now, so sorry if it seems... scattered, or a bit like a list

I wasn't trying to say that I started with Sun Dude's team, only that he inspired me, I started with Torkoal/Lilligant/Gastrodon/Metagross/Bulu/Arcanine

I think I will consider Nature Power on Torkoal, I think it's a pretty neat idea.
I will add calcs tomorrow (1/21) and will attempt to explain the EVs then
I am a bit afraid of running no STAB lilli, but I will think about it
And I actually considered running scarf, but enjoyed Specs power, and it would be hard to explain in writing how great it is and will try to give replays to show it
I am not sold on Waterium Z gyarados, nor am I sold on Gyara, I just added him as a water type, with a ice type move and intimidate support, do you have a suggestion for a replacement if there is a good one, I am fine with keeping it if there isn't
If I don't use scarf on Lele I am consider using scarf Bulu, with a much less bulky spread (like sun dude) to fill more of a supportive role with Nature's madness, but I am not sure.
And one last thing, I am not a YouTube person... and so I am not sure if the EVs on Bulu are Wolfe's spread or not... are they?
Also, I will probably go back to my old Lilligant with less speed
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)