Evasion: Test or Ban?

[Dragontamer]

That is a good point. Anything that makes Wobbuffet's life harder is good IMO >_>

Turn 1 wob switches in, DT happens
Turn 2, Wob encores, DT goes again
Turn 3, Wob leaves, another DT
Turn 4, pokemon takes advanage of encore and stats up. Another DT
Turn 5, Pokemon begins to attack. Unless you're calm mind aura sphere lucario... or swords dance technician aerial ace scyther... good luck with that >_>

 

[Bliksem]

Of course, conversely, what if the Pokemon using Double Team in this situation has a flying weakness? Let's say, for some random example, we have a Double Teaming Heracross. Ignoring the fact that Megahorn exists, what if the person with the Wobbuffet also kept a Persian and Scyther on the team? I'm pretty sure Scyther would love the free switch against Heracross. Of course, that's a pretty specific example, but it does go to prove that the Pokemon that use Double Team effectively are a lower number than those that actually learn it.

 

[X-Act]

I'd like to ask a question. Suppose Double Team is tested and is found to be broken only on one, or maybe two Pokemon. Would it make sense to ban Double Team on ALL Pokemon in that case?

 

[Fenikkusu]

I think it would depend on the pokemon involved. If it proves to be overly powerful on say, garchomp, then I think that's more telling of garchomp's power than DT's.

well regardless, I think the ability to abuse DT might be more indicative of the pokemon in question's power than of double team abuse in general, because if only one or two pokemon can abuse it to the point of brokenness, then clearly it isn't a "generically overpowered strategem that any hack with a DS (or PC) can throw onto their pokemon" and beat a superior player consistently.

 

[sarunibi]

Off the top of my head, here are some Pokemon that should probably be tested for Double Team brokeness.

Dusknoir
Spiritomb
Umbreon
Gengar
Blissey

These five are notorious for avoiding or taking hits and healing back with Leftovers. Dusknoir and Spiritomb both carry pressure. Umbreon can take hits not fighting or bug. Blissey walls special attacks better then the rest. Gengar's speed and movepool allows some tricky stuff such as Hypnosis or Will o Wisp. If we ever get around to testing, I would suggest these five first.

 

[kamikaen]

I'd like to ask a question. Suppose Double Team is tested and is found to be broken only on one, or maybe two Pokemon. Would it make sense to ban Double Team on ALL Pokemon in that case?

In my opinion, banning moves/items on individual Pokemon wouldn't work. That might even open up questions about banning Swords Dance just on Garchomp, or Tail Glow just on Manaphy. I think the question shoujld be, should we ban DT on all Pokemon, or ban those Pokemon?

 

[phalanx]

then we start going down the road of x item is broken on x pokemon and start banning those

 

[Fenikkusu]

In my opinion, banning moves/items on individual Pokemon wouldn't work. That might even open up questions about banning Swords Dance just on Garchomp, or Tail Glow just on Manaphy. I think the question shoujld be, should we ban DT on all Pokemon, or ban those Pokemon?

I agree. Banning specific sets is definitely something we want to avoid.

 

[Dragontamer]

I'd like to ask a question. Suppose Double Team is tested and is found to be broken only on one, or maybe two Pokemon. Would it make sense to ban Double Team on ALL Pokemon in that case?

This is very similar to Snover in UU. Snover itself is not broken... but would cause at least 3 other borderline UU pokemon to become broken. (Glaceon, Walrein, and Lapras at least).

So the question is... ban Snover, or Ban Glaceon, Walrein, and Lapras. Of course, banning 3 pokemon hurts a metagame more than banning one Pokemon, so Snover took the hit.

We'll address that issue when it comes up.